New system

The Black Oil

Hey,

I'm looking to build a new system after capacitors have failed on the motherboard of an old one. Too old to upgrade at this stage.

This is a build I went based on advice from you guys last November.

1. What is your budget? [450-700]

2. What will be the main purpose of the computer? I guess something similar would do the trick this time around. Mainly web surfing, email, Youtube, documents, printing, scanning, etc. But this time, I might go for a graphics card for some gaming capability - most recent game I have is Battlefield 3, so don't need anything terribly fancy.

3. Do you need a copy of Windows? [Yes]

4. Can you use any parts from an old computer?

I've salvaged the PSU, Linksys wmp300n wireless adapter and HD.

Re the HD, I've a 160GB Western Digital, or a Samsung 250GB. They're both IDE, so how can I use them in a new build - some sort of IDE - SATA adapter, so that it'll work on a new motherboard/appropriate headers, etc? Also the board in the November link didn't have USB 3.0 headers.

The PSU from the old system was a replacement, so it's not absolutely ancient. It's an Octigen 500W Power Supply (149898PSOTG) model.

5. Do you need a monitor? Not sure. This is the current monitor. Don't know if there are Win 7 or 8 drivers for it.

5a. If yes, what size do you need. If a new one is needed - 15/17/19" should be fine.

6. Do you need any of these peripherals? Probably a keyboard, mouse.

7. Are you willing to try overclocking? n/a

8. How can you pay? Bank Transfer/Credit Card/Laser

9. When are you purchasing? This weekend/next week.

10. If you need help building it, where are you based? n/a

Thanks.

BloodBath

I don't understand why you need a whole new system and windows.

That's old system is perfectly fine for what you need.

What happened to all the parts and your copy of windows?

The Black Oil

Ah no. I'm looking to replace an 8 year old dinosaur that's given up the ghost (2-3 salvaged parts). The November link above was simply to show what you guys advised here on different build in the event that you felt something similar again would do. Sorry for the confusion, ignore the November info, I guess.

The Black Oil

How about some of the suggestions in these threads, perhaps with a few changes? Maybe a less hefty graphics card (not 2GB?), and smaller HD capacity. Don't really see the need for a 1TB drive. How are AMDs, btw?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056905141

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056919996

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056919252

BloodBath

You won't be able to use those old drive's in a new system. That power supply looks awful and your monitor is dated. I'd advise you to replace everything.

This should do the trick. It will run all modern games at 1080p as well at around medium detail.

It also has good upgrade options down the line. The board will support sata3 ssd's and the fx line of processors as well as future unreleased am3+ based processors which there should be at least 2 generations of.

All you need is a keyboard. The german layout is different.


Item|Price
AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Box, Sockel AM3|€89.00
ASRock 970DE3/U3S3, AM3+, ATX|€55.64
8GB-Kit G.Skill RipJaws-X PC3-12800U CL9|€52.48
Seagate Barracuda 7200 1000GB, SATA 6Gb/s|€58.85
Cooltek CT K5 3.0, ohne Netzteil|€38.71
be quiet! SYSTEM POWER 7 400W|€38.94
Samsung SH-118AB schwarz|€12.89
PowerColor Radeon HD 7770 GHz Edition V2, 1GB DDR5|€98.60
MS Windows 8 64bit (SB-Version) Englisch|€85.37
LG 22EA53VQ-P|€129.00
Revoltec Wired Gaming Mouse W102|€8.58
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€687.05

Gumbi

If you're based anywhere near Limerick I'd be happy to sell you some second hand parts which closely match the specs suggested above. I'd give you a Phenom II x4 925 (slightly lower clock speed than the one above, but can be overclocked a bit on the stock cooler), an appropriate board (MSI 770-G45) and a 500GB 7200 RPM Samsung drive for around 120/130 quid. The CPU and mobo are in good condition, used for under 2 years. This is only a suggestion really, if you're on a budget it would save you some money (80 - 90 euro and 500GB less storage).

The Black Oil

Thanks both.

I've ordered. Confirmation email should come through in a while. I forget what this is - TrustedShops Käuferschutz bis 1500 EUR bis 30 Tage, insurance, or something.

Going to sort out the bank transfer shortly.

The Black Oil

Expecting the parts to arrive tomorrow if UPS is accurate.

BloodBath, how did you develop a knack for knowing what parts will work with each other?

BloodBath

Good stuff.

Just reading reviews really. I've been building pc's for a good few years but was totally out of the loop for ages until I did my latest build a few months ago. Just kept track of stuff since then as I helped some friends get builds together.

The Black Oil

The leaflet inside the case is in German (the only thing that is). Will be tricky if that's for connecting certain wires, hmm. Should be OK for wiring most things to the motherboard, but if there's something more around the case, I won't be able to translate.

BloodBath

Ah that must be a german only board.

There should be online manuals for similar boards. The connections won't be any different.

The Black Oil

Slow ish so far. Haven't done the first power everything up test yet. Case has been a bit of a bugger, tbh, though partly it's down to my lack of experience and make mistakes, but would go for something else in the future. CPU, mobo, HDD, etc went in fine, though positioning isn't ideal. Had the video card in, had to take it out again to connect the LED, etc wires. Nearly there, will be turning it on shortly. There are a few odds and ends in a plastic bag, which I think are spares. Will post a few photos when I'm done, or if something goes awry.

BloodBath

What's wrong with the case? I couldn't find any reviews for it but based on pictures and the price it seemed a bargain.

The Black Oil

Ah, I'm moaning. I had to remove the PCI things by breaking the metal - in others it just unscrews or slots out more easily. One or two things like that.

Here's how things turned out.









The machine fired up on the first attempt, phew. Windows 8 installed pretty fast. Don't think all of the motherboard drivers work with it. I didn't bother with most of the trial software, etc. It was my first time using the OS, so interesting to see all the stuff you can select on set up. I said no to the app/customer improvement things. Tiny writing on the product key packaging, you wouldn't want to have poor eyesight.



Here are some of the left over bits. Presumably, I don't need to bother with them. I've not attached speakers yet. There's also a fan at the back of the case. It's not hooked up, but perhaps I don't need it.



I still have to tidy the cables, get online, install updates, etc. The screen isn't taking up all the space, but that's probably fixable with the menus/drivers. Now to find a wireless adapter that is compatible, didn't think of that.

BloodBath

Nice one. Now tidy up those wires Pity the case cables aren't black. They hid that in the pictures. It could do with some sleeving.

Are the be-quiet psu cables not sleeved? It's false advertising if not. It can clearly be seen in the picture as sleeved.

http://www.hardwareversand.de/300+-+400+Watts/74166/be+quiet%21+SYSTEM+POWER+7+400W.article

You should install your hard drives facing the other way and route the cables out the back. Run as many of those cables out the back as possible and use the routing holes nearest to their inputs/outputs.

The graphics drivers should fix windows filling the screen. You might have to overscan it a bit. Make sure the res is set to 1080p.

Couple of questions since you are the first to buy some of these new parts. How does the case feel and sound? Does it feel cheap? How are the tool-less bays, fan controller, ect. Are the fans loud?

How is the monitor? Picture quality, stand ect?

How is the mouse?

If you don't like metro or the lack of a start button on windows 8 you can remove metro and add a start button. Would have been nice to have these options at install microsoft.

The Black Oil

Installed a few programs, ran all the updates.

Have tidied up the cables now. Sealed it up - started the machine and the screen is all distorted - red scrambled lines then goes black. Shut it down, thought the 20 pin connector didn't look right, so fixed that. Must be something else. Graphics would be the obvious culprit, but it looks OK on the board...I think.

BloodBath

That's not good. How do you have it connected? Dvi, vga, hdmi? Are you sure the cable is secure in the monitor and the graphics card?

The Black Oil

Yeah, that was it.

To come back to your earlier post, I'm probably not the best person to answer some of those questions. How do you judge case quality? The panels you take off were probably a bit less bendy on the old computer that's now gone for recycling.

Oh yeah, I put Classic Shell on it. There is some sort of screen that comes up just before you log in, not the thing with tiles, but the date/time - blue/green/yellow mostly. Edit, this thing.

Last time I bought from them the PSU came in its own cardboard box. This time it was just bubble wrap, which is OK, I guess. No, not sleeved. The fan seems OK, but I haven't really tried it in a room without a TV/distractions. I don't think the HD can go in the other way as there's a catch where they bays slot it, so you can't have it in from the other side. The tool-less set up was perhaps a bit better on the on the Fractal case I had before, but I suppose this one still does the job.

Screen seems fine so far, but I've not run any games or looked at pictures or videos, really. It can tilt a bit, which is handy. I did overscan 2/2 (?), which seemed to have an effect, though there's still a bit to spare.

Here are a few more pics, prior to tidying.









Thanks again for your help.

BloodBath

Balls sorry about that. I was sure that psu was sleeved from the pictures. It's not a windowed case at least but thanks for the heads up. I won't be recommending that case or psu again. Back to the bitfenix merc alpha and super flower amazon. There's practically no good cases between that and the €55+ price range.

The sata cable won't fit behind the hdd's no? I think I'd be take a snips to the metal backing of those cages if not.

The Black Oil

Question for you. Do you end up keeping many of the boxes? I've held on to the mobo one, the AMD, video card ones, anyway. In case there's bother later on.

BloodBath

I just chuck them all into the big box they came in and store that. It's handy in case you have to send anything back or want to sell any parts on.

People prefer getting things boxed, even second hand.

The Black Oil

Something's wrong. The PSU (I think) is going mental - far too loud. I ran hwmonitor you mentioned in another thread. Don't know if this will help.

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww48/rustbucketalbravo/Win8fan_zpsec070e80.jpeg

Maybe I need to connect something else, or...

I've the fan part of the PSU pointing down if that makes any different. Maybe it's the CPU fan? I was installing a few things like Flash, then tried to install Battlefield 3, but didn't get too far as Origin or whatever is needed to run it needed to be updated. Stopped bothering with that as the internet was pretty slow on the system. Just some browsing...fan was flying along.

spix

Just checked a review of that psu on another site and someone mentioned they didn't get a box either. Pretty strange, guess its bulk packaging or something. The system power 7 are sleeved from 450w upwards.

Your cpu fan is reading 6000 rpm which is mental, might be a false reading but install the motherboard utility and you can lower it, see if that makes it quieter.

The cpu temps seem a little high if thats idle, you sure the cooler is mounted properly?

Edit - just had a quick google and the x4 965 stock cooler can go to around 6,000 rpm at full speed. That's what's causing the noise.

The Black Oil

I got it sorted, another basic standard mistake on my part, I guess. Didn't have the chassis fan on at all, oops. Running more calmly now. Good that I can learn with each build, something to take from it, anyway. Now I'll try to update the mobo's bios, though I'm not sure what the optimum settings might be for it and Win 8 in general. RTFM...

BloodBath

You're getting there. Those stock coolers are always loud. You should replace it with a coolermaster 212 evo at some stage. It will run much cooler and quieter and allow you decent overclocks. The Phenom 2 x4 is a pretty hot chip.

The Black Oil

Things got pretty loud again when I started Battlefield 3. That's to be expected, once it's not abnormally loud...hmm.

spix

The Black Oil wrote: »

Things got pretty loud again when I started Battlefield 3. That's to be expected, once it's not abnormally loud...hmm.

Probably worth getting a new cooler. Had no idea those stock AMD fans go to 6,000 rpm. Intel max out at 2,000.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG_IcQ-ny8c

BloodBath

Holy ****. That is crazy loud. Definitely get yourself a cm 212 evo.

You can get decent overclocks on the cpu with it as well.

You should be able to set the fan profile to be less aggressive in the BIOS or with the boards software from within windows for the time being. Check your cpu temps with hwmonitor while running Prime 95 on a max heat test.

The Black Oil

Yeah, mine sounded a bit like that before I made some changes yesterday, though it went like that when I had a go at Battlefield 3.

In the event of going for a CM 212 evo, what's the procedure from there for installation? I don't think I'll need to use another backplate as there's already one in it, iirc. I'm sure there are a few videos online. The thermal paste that came with the existing one was already in place. Also, it's secured in place with two clips and I'm concerned if I apply too much pressure I'll break the existing CPU fan, the CPU or the mobo. There's a natural amount of a resistance if you try to undo the clips at the moment, but I don't want to press hard (in the event of changing the standard fan) unless it's OK.

I'm clueless on overclocking, don't really have an interest in it.

BloodBath

You will just need to remove the current cooler and backplate. The new heatsink will have it's own. It also comes with decent thermal paste. It's a little fiddly but should be ok without having to remove the mainboard from the case.

spix

The Black Oil wrote: »

Yeah, mine sounded a bit like that before I made some changes yesterday, though it went like that when I had a go at Battlefield 3.

In the event of going for a CM 212 evo, what's the procedure from there for installation? I don't think I'll need to use another backplate as there's already one in it, iirc. I'm sure there are a few videos online. The thermal paste that came with the existing one was already in place. Also, it's secured in place with two clips and I'm concerned if I apply too much pressure I'll break the existing CPU fan, the CPU or the mobo. There's a natural amount of a resistance if you try to undo the clips at the moment, but I don't want to press hard (in the event of changing the standard fan) unless it's OK.

I'm clueless on overclocking, don't really have an interest in it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrnWVHdhGJ0

The Black Oil

I've ordered a CM 212 evo as per your advice. It was dispatched from amazon today. Apparently, it's coming via DHL which is odd as I only paid for the item, VAT - no fancy shipping. Past stuff from amazon has always come via standard post.

I've played BF3 for 2 x 20 minute periods, and the current fan still runs pretty manic, so hopefully the new one will make a difference.

The Black Oil

CM 212 evo came from amazon UK yesterday. Installed it this morning. Removed the standard heat sink, old backplate, cleaned off the old thermal paste. Added the new stuff. Retention bracket thing was a bit of a pain, and between all the fiddling (solely on this part), it took over an hour, and I almost lost patience, but got there eventually. At one point, when removing the new thing it was so stuck by thermal paste that the CPU can unstuck. :eek:

Now things run at about 1,500 RPM, and the CPU temperature is around 25-28 degrees or thereabouts, so it sounds like it's actually breathing calmly. Before, it was as if it was on a treadmill at high speed. I threw on BF3 for a 5 minutes and even it didn't push things as before. So relief now with the new coolness that the system can enjoy.

Windows 8 has done a few funny things (mainly shutdown and not waking properly, though I've mostly not been there to witness these) since the build, but I'm hoping these are software, not hardware related.

Thanks again.

BloodBath

Good stuff. You could overclock now too.

How is it handling games and running overall?

spix

The Black Oil wrote: »

CM 212 evo came from amazon UK yesterday. Installed it this morning. Removed the standard heat sink, old backplate, cleaned off the old thermal paste. Added the new stuff. Retention bracket thing was a bit of a pain, and between all the fiddling (solely on this part), it took over an hour, and I almost lost patience, but got there eventually. At one point, when removing the new thing it was so stuck by thermal paste that the CPU can unstuck. :eek:

Now things run at about 1,500 RPM, and the CPU temperature is around 25-28 degrees or thereabouts, so it sounds like it's actually breathing calmly. Before, it was as if it was on a treadmill at high speed. I threw on BF3 for a 5 minutes and even it didn't push things as before. So relief now with the new coolness that the system can enjoy.

Windows 8 has done a few funny things (mainly shutdown and not waking properly, though I've mostly not been there to witness these) since the build, but I'm hoping these are software, not hardware related.

Thanks again.

You should be able to adjust that speed with motherboard software or in bios so its under 1,000 rpm in idle. Will make things even quieter ! 1500 is the max rpm of that cooler.

The Black Oil

Ah, OK - thanks.

I had a look in the bios. That area seems to be in H/W Monitor.

CPU Fan Setting is set to 'full on'. 'You're allowed to enable this function only when you install 4-pin CPU fan.'

Chasis Fan 1 setting. Again, set to 'full on', with the choice of manual or automatic mode. Is it here where I can specifically configure the RPM, then?

Is it normal for the motherboard screen splash with 'press F2 for bios', etc not to be great resolutionwise? It appears twice before the Windows stuff. Nothing hugely important, just bugging me a little.

Regarding Windows 8 updates, I think they've been the cause of random restarts...and there was some message about restart in 2 days. Rather than automatically install the updates I've changed it to all me when to install them. I was looking online about disabling the auto restart, but I don't have Group Policy Editor, so that's out.

A USB adapter that takes SD cards I think has also caused a few restart hiccups, but I'm not sure.

spix

It's normal for the boot screen to look crappy

Which one of these do you have the CPU fan connected to?

The Black Oil

I believe it's one in the blue circle is what the CPU fan/evo cooler is hooked up to.

The chassis one (highlighted in orange), iirc, is connected to the fan built into back panel of the case.

spix

The Black Oil wrote: »

I believe it's one in the blue circle is what the CPU fan/evo cooler is hooked up to.

The chassis one (highlighted in orange), iirc, is connected to the fan built into back panel of the case.

You should be able to control it then. If its in the red one you can't as thats the power fan and forced to run @ full speed.

Try download this program, handier than using the bios (I'm not sure if its win 8 compatible)

http://europe.asrock.com/downloadsite/utility/OCTuner/OCTuner(v2.4.73).zip

GHOST MGG

doesnt work with win 8 confirmed^^

The Black Oil

It installed fine for me on Win 8. Though admittedly, I've only tested it for a few minutes.

I brought things down to level 6-7, which is around 1,100-1,200 RPM or so, and you can hear that it's a bit quieter. It says the target CPU temperature is 50C, is that OK?

spix

The Black Oil wrote: »

It installed fine for me on Win 8. Though admittedly, I've only tested it for a few minutes.

I brought things down to level 6-7, which is around 1,100-1,200 RPM or so, and you can hear that it's a bit quieter. It says the target CPU temperature is 50C, is that OK?

Yeah even lower is fine. I always use level 1

Once the cpu reaches the target temperature then the fan speed will go back to full speed.

spix

GHOST MGG wrote: »

doesnt work with win 8 confirmed^^

i doubt you have the correct motherboard :P its specifically for the one black oil has.