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An alternative way of banking

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  • 12-04-2013 6:06am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 399 ✭✭


    So with the new rumours of AIB in trouble I thought I'd start a thread for discussion of an alternative way of banking.

    At the moment, banks create money out of thin air and issue loans with it, nothing new, but why do we allow them to charge interest?

    If you need say, €100, a bank will create the money from nothing, give you a loan of the money for a year but ask that you pay back €100 plus say, 10% interest so you pay €110 back in total.

    We, like any society, require money to facilitate trade, but, we've collectively agreed to live and work under this bizarre system whereby we work 10% harder (as example above) and then just give the extra money to the bankers.

    What we're essentially doing is siphoning off our wealth as a society and sending it to banker's pockets.

    Why the hell have we allowed banking to be a private undertaking in the first place? What we should have is a bank for the people that issues loans and 100% of the debt is repaid, but no more. We need money to operate as a society, but there's no reason for anyone to be profiting from it!

    We've now found ourselves in a crazy situation where there's plenty of teachers, plenty of kids in need of education, but the government can't afford to pay them and everybody suffers. Even though nothing's really changed since the banking collapse, we still have the same resources that we've always needed to operate the country, but everything's come to a standstill, and all because of this great invisible force called "the economy".

    There's plenty of videos on youtube that explain what's going on a lot more eloquently than I have, for anyone interested in how the whole 'scam*' works this is the probably the best short video I could find.







    *It's not technically a scam as the terms of a loan are agreed by both parties before the loan is issued, but the it is a scam in the sense that we are told that there is no alternative to the current system.



    I was quite lucky to have my mind blown today on watching an interview with Cody Wilson about the free online sharing of designs for 3D printed guns. I highly recommend that you watch it, but what I think we could see (in the near future) is the power of corporations beginning to wane, as designs for their products are freely shared online, and consumers then printing them out at home on their own 3D printers for a fraction of the price.

    More importantly, what this highlights, is the true power of the internet. Will we see a complete boycott of the current private banking system, and will people decide to trade in a new interest-free currency that is regulated with absolute transparency online?

    What are your alternatives to private banking?


«13456

Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 188 ✭✭A fella called fish


    I just use my left han...oh, banking... Sorry, no ideas..


  • Registered Users Posts: 269 ✭✭schnitzelEater


    I love this sort of thread. Some conspiracy theory mixed in with half understood concepts and a Walter Mitty / fantasist / Freeman type solution. And a good chunk of naive optimism.

    Great reading. Well done OP.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,236 ✭✭✭Dr. Kenneth Noisewater


    I love this sort of thread. Some conspiracy theory mixed in with half understood concepts and a Walter Mitty / fantasist / Freeman type solution. And a good chunk of naive optimism.

    Great reading. Well done OP.

    And nothing beats a condescending reply to a question no one asked. Kudos to you, good sir.


  • Registered Users Posts: 399 ✭✭IceFjoem


    I love this sort of thread. Some conspiracy theory mixed in with half understood concepts and a Walter Mitty / fantasist / Freeman type solution. And a good chunk of naive optimism.

    Great reading. Well done OP.

    Very constructive, enjoy your debt!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭shedweller


    Presidents have been assassinated for daring to even talk of setting up public banks.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Sky King


    shedweller wrote: »
    Presidents have been assassinated for daring to even talk of setting up public banks.

    A bank run like the HSE, yeah I can't see any problems with that at all!


  • Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    shedweller wrote: »
    Presidents have been assassinated for daring to even talk of setting up public banks.
    Who was that?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    shedweller wrote: »
    Presidents have been assassinated for daring to even talk of setting up public banks.

    I saw an ad on TV for a new reality show, can't remember what station but I think it was called 'the bank of Dave' or something like that. A guy in the UK set up his own bank and was issuing loans etc. within a week he was getting cease and desist letters from natwest and other lenders.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭Valetta


    The Italians have this sussed from long ago.

    In all their chip shops they use the batter system.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Valetta wrote: »
    The Italians have this sussed from long ago.

    In all their chip shops they use the batter system.

    One of the, actually no... THE worst joke I've heard in a long time.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭johnny_knoxvile


    I was hoping the "banking" in the title of the thread was a type-o.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,855 ✭✭✭Nabber


    Welcome to 2013 OP.
    I can confirm the rumours. AIB is fùcked along with the rest.
    Wait till you hear the rumours about USC, Property tax & water charges.


  • Registered Users Posts: 269 ✭✭schnitzelEater


    IceFjoem wrote: »
    Very constructive, enjoy your debt!

    Anyone that trusts the (Irish) public sector to run a bank needs their head examined I'm afraid. The same crowd of mandarins that regulated the banking sector and were at the heart of the bank guarantee.

    Sounds like a plan. Sign me up please.

    Presumably this bank doesn't pay interest on my savings either. Or are savings forbidden in this socialist utopia you are proposing?


  • Registered Users Posts: 269 ✭✭schnitzelEater


    deccurley wrote: »
    And nothing beats a condescending reply to a question no one asked. Kudos to you, good sir.

    What question is this now?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    1. Banks are for people who haven't properly invested their money.
    "China's experience is one that others have had at various times," Mr Stevens said. "As long as there are incentives to bypass the formal banking sector, the shadow banking system may keep on growing together with the risks."

    2. Regulate the shadow banking system or face a large crash.


  • Registered Users Posts: 269 ✭✭schnitzelEater


    smash wrote: »
    One of the, actually no... THE worst joke I've heard in a long time.

    It's in the right thread so.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Nabber wrote: »
    Welcome to 2013 OP.
    I can confirm the rumours. AIB is fùcked along with the rest.

    The point is that it's a lot more fcuked than people realise. Go look at the other banking thread.


  • Registered Users Posts: 269 ✭✭schnitzelEater


    squod wrote: »
    1. Banks are for people who haven't properly invested their money.



    2. Regulate the shadow banking system or face a large crash.


    Yeah, better to go for Bitcoin.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 548 ✭✭✭Three Seasons


    IceFjoem wrote: »
    So with the new rumours of AIB in trouble I thought I'd start a thread for discussion of an alternative way of banking.

    At the moment, banks create money out of thin air and issue loans with it, nothing new, but why do we allow them to charge interest?

    If you need say, €100, a bank will create the money from nothing, give you a loan of the money for a year but ask that you pay back €100 plus say, 10% interest so you pay €110 back in total.

    We, like any society, require money to facilitate trade, but, we've collectively agreed to live and work under this bizarre system whereby we work 10% harder (as example above) and then just give the extra money to the bankers.

    What we're essentially doing is siphoning off our wealth as a society and sending it to banker's pockets.

    Why the hell have we allowed banking to be a private undertaking in the first place? What we should have is a bank for the people that issues loans and 100% of the debt is repaid, but no more. We need money to operate as a society, but there's no reason for anyone to be profiting from it!

    We've now found ourselves in a crazy situation where there's plenty of teachers, plenty of kids in need of education, but the government can't afford to pay them and everybody suffers. Even though nothing's really changed since the banking collapse, we still have the same resources that we've always needed to operate the country, but everything's come to a standstill, and all because of this great invisible force called "the economy".

    There's plenty of videos on youtube that explain what's going on a lot more eloquently than I have, for anyone interested in how the whole 'scam*' works this is the probably the best short video I could find.







    *It's not technically a scam as the terms of a loan are agreed by both parties before the loan is issued, but the it is a scam in the sense that we are told that there is no alternative to the current system.



    I was quite lucky to have my mind blown today on watching an interview with Cody Wilson about the free online sharing of designs for 3D printed guns. I highly recommend that you watch it, but what I think we could see (in the near future) is the power of corporations beginning to wane, as designs for their products are freely shared online, and consumers then printing them out at home on their own 3D printers for a fraction of the price.

    More importantly, what this highlights, is the true power of the internet. Will we see a complete boycott of the current private banking system, and will people decide to trade in a new interest-free currency that is regulated with absolute transparency online?

    What are your alternatives to private banking?

    How do banks create money out of nothing, they don't have money printers.

    They lend money. That's not creating money out of nothing.

    You also think there is no reason to profit from lending. You won't mind lending me money then at 0 % interest.

    You don't have a clue what you're talking about. It's basically a rant which stems from a feeling of powerlessness in this world directed at those who you think have power.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    How do banks create money out of nothing, they don't have money printers.

    They lend money. That's not creating money out of nothing.

    You think money is printed every time interest occurs? Or every time a bank loans based on its capital? It's all electronic. Less than 5% of the money in the world is physical money. Apart from that it's generated electronically!


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    If you don't want to pay interest, don't borrow. If you don't want to get interest, don't use them to save. If you really want, go to the islam banks that charge fees instead of interest. Or expect everything done for you for free, I don't know.
    The govt deficit has nothing to do with the banks being run with interest, it's the day to day expenses of running the state that have it in deficit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    Yeah, better to go for Bitcoin.
    ... if you want to bring your money on a rollercoaster ride!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,284 ✭✭✭StewartGriffin


    How do banks create money out of nothing, they don't have money printers.

    They lend money. That's not creating money out of nothing.

    They create it by pressing the "Return" key on a pc keyboard every time they approve a loan. Those aren't real notes that get transferred into your account.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 341 ✭✭Hownowcow


    OP, you might like to investigate islamic banking.


  • Registered Users Posts: 399 ✭✭IceFjoem


    Anyone that trusts the (Irish) public sector to run a bank needs their head examined I'm afraid. The same crowd of mandarins that regulated the banking sector and were at the heart of the bank guarantee.

    Sounds like a plan. Sign me up please.

    Presumably this bank doesn't pay interest on my savings either. Or are savings forbidden in this socialist utopia you are proposing?

    I never proposed anything of the sort, I don't claim to be an expert either, what I'm trying to do is create a dialogue on the issue.

    What I am saying is that the system we have at the moment not only doesn't work, but holds profiteering so high that it's destroying people's lives, profiteering that shouldn't even exist, profiteering that regular retail banking customers want nothing to do with in the first place given the now abundantly clear risks.

    Anybody that thinks it is working needs their head examined IMO.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,221 ✭✭✭A_Sober_Paddy


    How do banks create money out of nothing, they don't have money printers.

    They lend money. That's not creating money out of nothing.

    You give a bank €100 to save...The banks only needs to hold a certain amount on desposit(lets say 25%)...So the banks holds €25 of your money and loans out the other €75...But your account still has €100 in it...Its not the physical creation of money but its still a form of money creation...

    Well that's what I remember for my college days


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭studiorat


    halal banking perhaps.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 714 ✭✭✭PlainP


    My local credit union has a big sign up saying FREE BANKING on the way with a sort code beside it...
    Think I'm going to go in and enquire about this. Might be better than banks...


  • Registered Users Posts: 399 ✭✭IceFjoem


    Hownowcow wrote: »
    OP, you might like to investigate islamic banking.

    Ye I've heard a bit about it alright, would I be correct in saying they've essentially created a kind of back door usury in the form of charges rather than interest? I'll do some googling when I get a chance anyway!

    What I'm proposing though (and I'm by no means the first) is creating a bank that would service society with capital rather than forcing it to grow or die with debt.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Check out three seasons editing his post after people calling him up on it :D


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