Ikea for Cherrywood?

Cookie_Monster

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ikea-asks-council-to-rezone-land-for-second-city-store-29188707.html

Sounds like a great idea, some of the wasteland may actually get used instead of sitting there forever.
Given that the council plan is not too likely to happen any time soon and it will otherwise remain a barren no go zone for 5-10 years is there any reason not to allow for it? Suitable location, already and Industrial estate, right beside the M50 and M/N11 for transport, Luas and 145/7 for staff and to a lesser extent customers to commute by.

Eathrin

Is there really a need for a new town centre in Cherrywood?
It would make sense that they wouldn't want warehouses in the area if there was a need to develop a residential area but right now it's just wasteland asking to be commercially developed.

ted1

Just laughing at the article where it says it could act as a wind and noise buffer to the m50. Hardly a reason to grant permission.

Strange that they would want a second store so close to the first one and in much the same catchment area. You'd think some where like cashel would be a good place to get the limerick , cork market etc.

Fratton Fred

Cherrywood is perfect for an IKEA or a large hypermarket.

homer911

This is the SDZ referred to in the article. Can't really see it happening to be honest. One the RPT comes in, DLRCOCO wont be so desperate for the business rates, and changing the plan to permit this would have a detrimental impact on the plan as a whole. It would not support balanced development of the location which is what DLRCOCO is looking for

http://www.dlrcoco.ie/aboutus/councildepartments/planning/findit/cherrywoodstrategicdevelopmentzonesdz/

ted1

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Cherrywood is perfect for an IKEA or a large hypermarket.

I would not agree, causing congestion at a major junction. Taking business away from local villages. Etc, etc. plenty of shopping centres within a ten minute drive. Ikea a 25 minute drive

Anyone

Another dirty big monstrous building to sit on top of that hill. Cant imagine anybody living in Cherrywood will be too happy about it.

Larbre34

homer911 wrote: »

This is the SDZ referred to in the article. Can't really see it happening to be honest. One the RPT comes in, DLRCOCO wont be so desperate for the business rates, and changing the plan to permit this would have a detrimental impact on the plan as a whole. It would not support balanced development of the location which is what DLRCOCO is looking for

http://www.dlrcoco.ie/aboutus/councildepartments/planning/findit/cherrywoodstrategicdevelopmentzonesdz/

Not so unfortunately. The Council's central funding is being reduced by the amount of the Household Charge/LPT collectable for that County, so the net gain is nothing and the exchequer money is kept by the Govt to reduce national debt or pay bondholders or whatever nonsense.

The SDZ is a 30 year framework, its not meant to appear overnight

The IKEA thing is a bad idea, yeah jobs are great and all that but the site up there at Cherrywood couldnt cope with massive traffic peaks, and the outlet in Ballymun is perfectly accessible for anyone in or near Dublin.

Why dont they build one in Limerick or someplace to serve Limerick, Galway, Cork and Waterford. The jobs would mean more down there

markpb

Larbre34 wrote: »

Why dont they build one in Limerick or someplace to serve Limerick, Galway, Cork and Waterford. The jobs would mean more down there

Because IKEA aren't FAS?

They're in business to sell stuff, not hire people. If they want to build in Cherrywood, they obviously think they'll sell more there than in a regional town/city.

Slutmonkey57b

Very glad I don't live up there now. The waste ground isn't great, but having all that open space is much better for dog walking, kids playing etc than having a bloody great Ikea and a "New village" with associated traffic.

There will be more traffic noise as a result of Ikea and the wind comes from the north/south anyway not off the motorway.

Tabnabs

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Very glad I don't live up there now. The waste ground isn't great, but having all that open space is much better for dog walking, kids playing etc than having a bloody great Ikea and a "New village" with associated traffic.

There will be more traffic noise as a result of Ikea and the wind comes from the north/south anyway not off the motorway.

Not sure kids playing on a waste ground is a valid argument for keeping Ikea away. Plus the prevailing wind is westerly so it does come across the motorway and down to the coast.

I pass this area almost daily and the land is vast. It could fit in pretty well with some careful planning. Having visited the Ballymum site many times, I've yet to experience any traffic delays. In fact, Carrickmines would be far worse for traffic.

As for the competition, what big furniture shops are in the area already? Harvey Norman, any more?

Slutmonkey57b

Tabnabs wrote: »

Not sure kids playing on a waste ground is a valid argument for keeping Ikea away. Plus the prevailing wind is westerly so it does come across the motorway and down to the coast.

I pass this area almost daily and the land is vast. It could fit in pretty well with some careful planning. Having visited the Ballymum site many times, I've yet to experience any traffic delays. In fact, Carrickmines would be far worse for traffic.

As for the competition, what big furniture shops are in the area already? Harvey Norman, any more?

Ballymun is a much bigger exit runoff than cherrywood with more space for traffic to disappear into.

As for the wind, if it was coming off the motorway I'd have had it blowing in my windows. The localised weather is that the wind screams along the luas line, and on the opposite side from the n11.

The Ikea site itself is a building site but there's a lot of greenfield and wooded area to walk around, where the council intends to build thousands of houses in the midst of a property downturn and recession.

uch

Tabnabs wrote: »

Not sure kids playing on a waste ground is a valid argument for keeping Ikea away. Plus the prevailing wind is westerly so it does come across the motorway and down to the coast.

I pass this area almost daily and the land is vast. It could fit in pretty well with some careful planning. Having visited the Ballymum site many times, I've yet to experience any traffic delays. In fact, Carrickmines would be far worse for traffic.

As for the competition, what big furniture shops are in the area already? Harvey Norman, any more?

I agree with everything Tabnabs says and with the Jobs that would be created it's a win-win as far as I can see, and I live pretty close.

Fratton Fred

The only time that junction is congested is rush hour and an Ikea wouldn't affect that in the slightest.

There is literally acres and acres of space to build on up there, with the logical place for houses being N11 side of the Luas and commercial/retail the other.

Slutmonkey57b

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The only time that junction is congested is rush hour and an Ikea wouldn't affect that in the slightest.

There is literally acres and acres of space to build on up there, with the logical place for houses being N11 side of the Luas and commercial/retail the other.

Why is it logical to build houses in the midst of massive oversupply?

Fratton Fred

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Why is it logical to build houses in the midst of massive oversupply?

As I understand it, that area is marked for residential and commercial use ny the council, but when, who knows. However, I believe there is a shortage of houses in DLR thanks to people only building apartments during the boom.

irishguy

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Why is it logical to build houses in the midst of massive oversupply?

Because its a 30 year plan

ted1

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Why is it logical to build houses in the midst of massive oversupply?

There is a huge under supply of houses in south Dublin, plenty of apartments but no houses for the 20 and 30 something's that brought apartments to get on the ladder and are now bringing up kids in apartments.

coylemj

I think DLR co co is maybe conscious of the risk to Dundrum SC if IKEA move into Cherrywood because it will then be difficult to refuse other large retailers who want to open stores in Cherrywood and benefit from the 'halo effect' of having an IKEA on their doorstep. The place then becomes one big US style mall.

DLR co co went out of their way to facilitate the creation of Dundrum SC as they discovered that a huge proportion of their citizens' spend was outside the co co area because the Square in Tallaght, Blanchardstown SC and Liffey Valley SC were now accessible with the improved roads, including the M50. I can understand their resistance to plans that threaten to pull people away to an out of town mega shopping mall in Cherrywood.

_Kaiser_

coylemj wrote: »

I think DLR co co is maybe conscious of the risk to Dundrum SC if IKEA move into Cherrywood because it will then be difficult to refuse other large retailers who want to open stores in Cherrywood and benefit from the 'halo effect' of having an IKEA on their doorstep. The place then becomes one big US style mall.

DLR co co went out of their way to facilitate the creation of Dundrum SC as they discovered that a huge proportion of their citizens' spend was outside the co co area because the Square in Tallaght, Blanchardstown SC and Liffey Valley SC were now accessible with the improved roads, including the M50. I can understand their resistance to plans that threaten to pull people away to an out of town mega shopping mall in Cherrywood.

As an aside I have to say I can't stand Dundrum SC. It's like they tried to take Blanch SC and shove it into an area a third the size. I have been there maybe 3 times since I moved out this way and the traffic is a disaster, the place is a mess to get in/out of, and having to pay for the parking doesn't sit well with me.

Plus, maybe it's me but the place seems full of nothing.. all celtic tiger era shops and very little else to warrant putting up with the above. The Beacon in Sandyford is even worse.

Far better to spend the 10/20 mins on the M50 and go to Liffey Valley or Blanch IMO, but an IKEA would be useful.

Slutmonkey57b

ted1 wrote: »

There is a huge under supply of houses in south Dublin, plenty of apartments but no houses for the 20 and 30 something's that brought apartments to get on the ladder and are now bringing up kids in apartments.

These would be the same people who are deepest in the property hole and most likely to already be in arrears/defaulting on their mortgages then...?

ted1

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

These would be the same people who are deepest in the property hole and most likely to already be in arrears/defaulting on their mortgages then...?

Them and their peers, however in two years they'll have made it possible to for people to move either by mortgage write down or allowing mortgage to transfer.

Tabnabs

coylemj wrote: »

I think DLR co co is maybe conscious of the risk to Dundrum SC if IKEA move into Cherrywood because it will then be difficult to refuse other large retailers who want to open stores in Cherrywood and benefit from the 'halo effect' of having an IKEA on their doorstep. The place then becomes one big US style mall.

But this hasn't been a problem in the Ballymun site. IKEA is the sole mega-size retailer there and there's plenty of land around it for other retailers to come knocking.

DLR co co went out of their way to facilitate the creation of Dundrum SC as they discovered that a huge proportion of their citizens' spend was outside the co co area because the Square in Tallaght, Blanchardstown SC and Liffey Valley SC were now accessible with the improved roads, including the M50. I can understand their resistance to plans that threaten to pull people away to an out of town mega shopping mall in Cherrywood.

I think it would be to the advantage of DLRCoCo to have a viable local alternative to principally draw traffic away from Dundrum. It's horrendous, especially on weekends when people come from far and wide to worship at the alter of retail excellence...

Larbre34

Tabnabs wrote: »

But this hasn't been a problem in the Ballymun site. IKEA is the sole mega-size retailer there and there's plenty of land around it for other retailers to come knocking.



I think it would be to the advantage of DLRCoCo to have a viable local alternative to principally draw traffic away from Dundrum. It's horrendous, especially on weekends when people come from far and wide to worship at the alter of retail excellence...

Its not a matter of having an alternative to another type of retail, the two would be very different markets and Dundrum is as much a social centre as retail, you wouldn't have that profile with an IKEA as its more about planned 'project' visits, so in all likelyhood on a busy weekend IKEA would be busy and Dundrum would remain as busy - which is why the NRA have stated concerns about peak capacity on the M50 southern section, especially as it funnels into a 2-lane M11.

The planning consideration of IKEA is whether or not giant warehousing (or even smaller retail park style outlets) is what the Cherrywood masterplan should be about. If you look at Adamstown, the model is for residential, village retail, light commercial and community facilities. A 20,000 sq.m big blue box is not going to compliment that, and is incompatible with the Carrickmines centre just up the road serving those needs.

Slutmonkey57b

Very good point. One of the main reasons there is a derelict development site there at all is the effect carrickmines, dundrum, cornelscourt and Tesco ballybrack already have on local and drive-by shopping. The original scheme failed to attract an anchor tenant.

Fratton Fred

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Very good point. One of the main reasons there is a derelict development site there at all is the effect carrickmines, dundrum, cornelscourt and Tesco ballybrack already have on local and drive-by shopping. The original scheme failed to attract an anchor tenant.

I thought Tesco were looking to build a store up there at some point?

RosieJoe

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Very good point. One of the main reasons there is a derelict development site there at all is the effect carrickmines, dundrum, cornelscourt and Tesco ballybrack already have on local and drive-by shopping. The original scheme failed to attract an anchor tenant.

Main reason the site is derelict is the Mahon tribunal. If all was above board on the land rezoning that land would be a housing estate.

Slutmonkey57b

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I thought Tesco were looking to build a store up there at some point?

Tesco are an anchor tenant in Dundrum, and have another big store in Ballybrack. Makes no sense to be another anchor tenant just down the road.

RosieJoe

I had heard that Tesco were to move to Cherrywood from Ballybrack, not have the 2 running together

Bits_n_Bobs

RosieJoe wrote: »

I had heard that Tesco were to move to Cherrywood from Ballybrack, not have the 2 running together

That was my understanding as well - Tesco move up the road and presumably Ballybrack center to be redeveloped to 1 and 2 bed apartment blocks....

I see there is a sign in Ballybrack saying they are going to expand the shopping center as well, so assume that it is definitely dead in the water and Tesco have signed a new lease / given some long term commitment to the center.

Hard to understand what an IKEA would bring to the area, as others have pointed out the other one is 20 minutes away. I think there's definitely demand for family housing (including family-sized apartments) in the area.

Fratton Fred

Bits_n_Bobs wrote: »

That was my understanding as well - Tesco move up the road and presumably Ballybrack center to be redeveloped to 1 and 2 bed apartment blocks....

I see there is a sign in Ballybrack saying they are going to expand the shopping center as well, so assume that it is definitely dead in the water and Tesco have signed a new lease / given some long term commitment to the center.

Hard to understand what an IKEA would bring to the area, as others have pointed out the other one is 20 minutes away. I think there's definitely demand for family housing (including family-sized apartments) in the area.

If you take the Luas from Cherrywood to Ballyogan, you will see how much land is up there. There are two built, but unused stops before you cross the M50!

They could double the existing residential development and still build a Tesco and IKEA superstore