Managers Gone Mad?

keane2097

Most of us probably saw the video of an embarrassed Michael Murphy refusing to sign an autograph for a young Mayo girl after the league games a couple of weeks ago, and there was plenty in the media about a cringe inducing interview he was forced to do while not allowed answer any questions about Donegal. Both situations arose due to directives from the Donegal management muzzling their players.

Last weekend, Antrim stalwarts Tony Scullion and Michael McCann, who are brothers-in-law, were dropped from the panel to play Monaghan because they wanted to travel to the game separately from the rest of the panel so they could attend the anniversary mass of a relative.

There seem to be stories like these every week. This all seems a bit mad to me when you're talking about guys who are not being compensated.

In the positions these players are put in, a part of me feels like I'd tell the managers in question to go fcuk themselves and never play again, but then you're stuck in a position where you don't get to play the game you love for your county anymore.

What do people think of stuff like this? Any other examples?

Mountainlad

keane2097 wrote: »

Most of us probably saw the video of an embarrassed Michael Murphy refusing to sign an autograph for a young Mayo girl after the league games a couple of weeks ago, and there was plenty in the media about a cringe inducing interview he was forced to do while not allowed answer any questions about Donegal. Both situations arose due to directives from the Donegal management muzzling their players.

Last weekend, Antrim stalwarts Tony Scullion and Michael McCann, who are brothers-in-law, were dropped from the panel to play Monaghan because they wanted to travel to the game separately from the rest of the panel so they could attend the anniversary mass of a relative.

There seem to be stories like these every week. This all seems a bit mad to me when you're talking about guys who are not being compensated.

In the positions these players are put in, a part of me feels like I'd tell the managers in question to go fcuk themselves and never play again, but then you're stuck in a position where you don't get to play the game you love for your county anymore.

What do people think of stuff like this? Any other examples?

In Damian Lawlor's book about the Waterford footballers in 2009 called "Working on a Dream", Liam Lawlor talks about how a few years previous he asked Justin McCarthy for permission to attend his cousin's wedding which clashed with a challenge match. McCarthy said to him "We want you to come because we're going to give you a start in the game" or something like that (Lawlor hadn't been getting much gametime I believe). So he attended the match, and played either 15mins in an 80 minute match or didn't play at all.

premierstone

Davy Fitz and he's antics would put all of these into the shade.

Mountainlad

premierstone wrote: »

Davy Fitz and he's antics would put all of these into the shade.

A referee in Waterford was doing a Fitzigbbon cup game a few years ago, LIT were playing. He said between Fitzgerald and Cyril Farrell, the language coming out of them was shocking. Said he wouldn't leave his child play for a team if they were managing.

keane2097

premierstone wrote: »

Davy Fitz and he's antics would put all of these into the shade.

Oh yeah?

premierstone

keane2097 wrote: »

Oh yeah?

Was managing a club team in Tipp and told all the players to meet at the field to bring an overnight bag and their gear and passports. As they got on the bus they were all told to hand over their phones and passports and the bus proceeded to take them a few miles out the road to a complex where they were locked in for nearly 48 hours for some 'personal' training - these guys had families who they had no way of contacting to say they were ok, others were due in work.

While in the same job he employed a specialist goalkeeping coach to work with the Keepers (at quite a cost btw) even though the man himself is the holder of 3 all stars, the coach he employed just happened to be a relative of he's, he's spell with this club lasted 2 championship games both of which they lost and he then walked away leaving a massive financial mess behind.

Mountainlad

premierstone wrote: »

Was managing a club team in Tipp and told all the players to meet at the field to bring an overnight bag and their gear and passports. As they got on the bus they were all told to hand over their phones and passports and the bus proceeded to take them a few miles out the road to a complex where they were locked in for nearly 48 hours for some 'personal' training - these guys had families who they had no way of contacting to say they were ok, others were due in work.

While in the same job he employed a specialist goalkeeping coach to work with the Keepers (at quite a cost btw) even though the man himself is the holder of 3 all stars, the coach he employed just happened to be a relative of he's, he's spell with this club lasted 2 championship games both of which they lost and he then walked away leaving a massive financial mess behind.

Why did he take their passports?

Red Crow

premierstone wrote: »

Was managing a club team in Tipp and told all the players to meet at the field to bring an overnight bag and their gear and passports. As they got on the bus they were all told to hand over their phones and passports and the bus proceeded to take them a few miles out the road to a complex where they were locked in for nearly 48 hours for some 'personal' training - these guys had families who they had no way of contacting to say they were ok, others were due in work.

While in the same job he employed a specialist goalkeeping coach to work with the Keepers (at quite a cost btw) even though the man himself is the holder of 3 all stars, the coach he employed just happened to be a relative of he's, he's spell with this club lasted 2 championship games both of which they lost and he then walked away leaving a massive financial mess behind.

He had a meeting a day or two before he was announced as the Waterford manager with the Nenagh lads and told them that they were his number one priority. His training sessions rippled them too. It wasn't just Davy in it either. His top Sunday Panel side-kick was there too. The whole thing was a farce.

Apparently Davy has fallen out with the echelons of Clare hurling now too.

premierstone

Mountainlad wrote: »

Why did he take their passports?

It would be folly to attempt to understand <Mod Snip>, can only surmise he told them all to bring them so they would think they were heading off somewhere for a bit of craic, thus ensuring they would all turn up.

Clareman

Folks,

Lets keep name calling out of the discussion.

Also, as always, remember that you are posting under the rules of boards and the charter of the GAA forum, please don't overstep the mark and make us step in an hand out infringements/bans.

Lemlin

premierstone wrote: »

It would be folly to attempt to understand <Mod Snip>, can only surmise he told them all to bring them so they would think they were heading off somewhere for a bit of craic, thus ensuring they would all turn up.

Your story doesn't really add up then. He told them to bring their passports because they were going away yet they hadn't a chance to tell their families or work? Surely if they thought they were going away they'd have mentioned it.

Story sounds like complete and utter bull to me to be honest. I can't see any panel of grown men agreeing to the situation you've described.

premierstone

Eli Manning wrote: »

He had a meeting a day or two before he was announced as the Waterford manager with the Nenagh lads and told them that they were his number one priority. His training sessions rippled them too. It wasn't just Davy in it either. His top Sunday Panel side-kick was there too. The whole thing was a farce.

Apparently Davy has fallen out with the echelons of Clare hurling now too.

Shur Daddy is the County Board Secetary and he's sister is the chairperson of the supporters club, he'll be alright, plenty of opportunity for him to break the county board ( he has 26 various staff working with the Senior Panel) and potentially ruin the most talented generation of players that Clare have ever produced.

keane2097

This sort of treatment of players is just too much IMO, at club level even more so.

Guy's don't deserve to be treated like slabs of meat whose sole purpose is to win a manager trophies. It's very undignified.

Clareman

Lemlin wrote: »

Your story doesn't really add up then. He told them to bring their passports because they were going away yet they hadn't a chance to tell their families or work? Surely if they thought they were going away they'd have mentioned it.

Story sounds like complete and utter bull to me to be honest. I can't see any panel of grown men agreeing to the situation you've described.

It's true, he did that with Clare last year as well, brought them up Carrauntoohil overnight, I think it's part of his mentality training that players have to be ready to give up everything.

68Murph68

I can't help but wonder how much of this is related to payments to managers.

Reeks of lads getting paid for managing teams coming up with antics/stunts to justify the payments they are receiving.

You'd imagine it would be relatively easy for a player to set up an anonymous email account and send an email to local/national journalists. Papers don't refuse ink and I'd imagine that they wouldn't be long investigating.

premierstone

Lemlin wrote: »

Your story doesn't really add up then. He told them to bring their passports because they were going away yet they hadn't a chance to tell their families or work?

They were just told to bring their passports and an overnight bag, never told where they were going or what for.

keane2097

68Murph68 wrote: »

Reeks of lads getting paid for managing teams coming up with antics/stunts to justify the payments they are receiving.

This.

premierstone

Lemlin wrote: »

Your story doesn't really add up then. He told them to bring their passports because they were going away yet they hadn't a chance to tell their families or work? Surely if they thought they were going away they'd have mentioned it.

Story sounds like complete and utter bull to me to be honest. I can't see any panel of grown men agreeing to the situation you've described.

Davy has done far worse than this believe me, I have heard of another panel of players he was in charge of who were taken into the depths of a forest.

Believe me or not Im not that bothered, I have no reason to make it up, I am related to two members of the said panel and would be good friends with 4 or 5 others, it definitely happened.

galtee mountain boy

OP, any particular reason why Michael Murphy refused to give the girl his autograph? Was it managements instructions not to or what?

Lago

Personally this is the main reason I hate the GAA. I love playing Gaelic Football but to play it feels like I have to go through punishment for the "privilage". I know lads on the Kildare panel and last year McGeeney wasted the already financial struggling board's money to go to Portugal (I think) for a training camp, forced the players to pay for the travel themselves and before they left said something along the lines of we're not going for a holiday.

The problem is that the GAA is so backward. The idea still seems to be the more pain and miseryyou can inflict on a player, the better it is for him. Sure run 3 miles in a swamp or lift a tractor tire across the field and you'll be the fittest lad out there.

Please, it's just laziness and stupidity on the part of those in charge. Not that I'm good enough but if I ever got asked to play for my county, I'd have no reason or motivation to do so. Pride in my county? Piss off, I'm not going to go through some sort of penance just so people who live near can watch me play

premierstone

Lago wrote: »

Personally this is the main reason I hate the GAA. I love playing Gaelic Football but to play it feels like I have to go through punishment for the "privilage". I know lads on the Kildare panel and last year McGeeney wasted the already financial struggling board's money to go to Portugal (I think) for a training camp, forced the players to pay for the travel themselves and before they left said something along the lines of we're not going for a holiday.

The problem is that the GAA is so backward. The idea still seems to be the more pain and miseryyou can inflict on a player, the better it is for him. Sure run 3 miles in a swamp or lift a tractor tire across the field and you'll be the fittest lad out there.

Please, it's just laziness and stupidity on the part of those in charge. Not that I'm good enough but if I ever got asked to play for my county, I'd have no reason or motivation to do so. Pride in my county? Piss off, I'm not going to go through some sort of penance just so people who live near can watch me play

Thanks for sharing that with us on a GAA board, even though you hate the GAA

Lemlin

premierstone wrote: »

They were just told to bring their passports and an overnight bag, never told where they were going or what for.

So they had a chance to tell their families and work that they were going away with the team?

Sort of makes part of your original post a null point.

I don't believe alot of these stories to be honest. I think certain managers do go to lengths but then people hear the stories and add their own little parts and it snowballs.

premierstone

Lemlin wrote: »

So they had a chance to tell their families and work that they were going away with the team?

Sort of makes part of your original post a null point.

I don't believe alot of these stories to be honest. I think certain managers do go to lengths but then people hear the stories and add their own little parts and it snowballs.

They couldnt tell them where they were going or how long for as they had no idea, one would imagine they said 'If im not going to be back I'll give you a call'' pretty hard to do when your phone has been confiscated.

Look Im not bothered one way or another whether you believe it or not, I know for 100% certain it happened and the very fact that you think its far fetched kind of illustrates my point in putting it in this thread!

Mountainlad

Clareman wrote: »

It's true, he did that with Clare last year as well, brought them up Carrauntoohil overnight, I think it's part of his mentality training that players have to be ready to give up everything.

I read about that one, Christy O Connor had a piece about it in the Sunday Times the day of the Waterford v Clare game I believe. I think they were training earlier in the day as well, and that they hadn't had food before they set out. It was pitch black when they did and the weather wasn't great. Not only is this madness in terms of the dangers of it, but it also doesn't seem wise to me.

Ok, so it does appear he was trying to teach them a lesson in mental toughness, and team spirit that they all did it together, but from a sporting point of view its a nightmare. Training already, lactic acid built up and then no refuelling and hydration. I know its not like the trained like that every week but its not the right way to go about things.

Davy is a bit mad in fairness, but like you see this ruthless streak in a lot of managers now and it's no wonder there are so many fallouts between players and managers. Good man management is reall undervalued. I know Donegal have won an All-ireland and the players would all talk highly of Jim McGuinness, but the story in the OP seem totally unneccesary and bad form really. From the stories I've heard about Kieran McGeeney, it seems he is not particularly friendly or unforgiving where GAA is concerned.

nice_guy80

and yet the most successful managers are those who don't pull 'stunts' to motivate players (granted they had excellent players to work with)

Cody
Jack O'Connor
Mickey Harte
Mick O'Dwyer (back in the day)
Sean Boylan

keane2097

galtee mountain boy wrote: »

OP, any particular reason why Michael Murphy refused to give the girl his autograph? Was it managements instructions not to or what?

Yeah apparently so.

Lago wrote: »

The problem is that the GAA is so backward. The idea still seems to be the more pain and miseryyou can inflict on a player, the better it is for him. Sure run 3 miles in a swamp or lift a tractor tire across the field and you'll be the fittest lad out there.

Please, it's just laziness and stupidity on the part of those in charge. Not that I'm good enough but if I ever got asked to play for my county, I'd have no reason or motivation to do so. Pride in my county? Piss off, I'm not going to go through some sort of penance just so people who live near can watch me play

Yeah I totally agree with this. It's a constant bugbear of mine that when it comes to coaches, many in the GAA seem to have less interest in making their players the best they can be than they have in making sure they get the hour of torment they owe the player.

Just last night I was out for dinner with my cousin and we were talking about how back when he was a minor he ripped his hamstring off the bone the fourth day having played the Frewen Cup final, trained with the seniors and played a soccer match & extra time the three days prior.

The utter mindlessness of making a player train just for the sake of it drives me bananas. No thought is given to how much the guy has been doing with other teams, no mind to recovery, just so long as I get to run the fcuker on my day.

Talking to Tommy Walsh about the difference between professionalism and amateurism he had nothing but praise for the amount of effort GAA players put in but was borderline derisory of the attitude coaches take to recovery citing that as the main difference between the two. According to him, two thirds of his week was spent with staff working on "getting him right", in GAA three quarters is spent trying to make sure you're suffering.

Mountainlad

nice_guy80 wrote: »

and yet the most successful managers are those who don't pull 'stunts' to motivate players (granted they had excellent players to work with)

Cody
Jack O'Connor
Mickey Harte
Mick O'Dwyer (back in the day)
Sean Boylan

But often their success is pinned on anecdotes about how they did this or that to motivate the team or about their character. So other managers try and 'think outside the box', and often come up with terrible ideas. I have no doubt that the likes of Davy, Daly and Ollie Baker's management styles are heavily influenced by Loughnane's tenure in Clare.

I think Davy is a bad manager. I think Daly is actually fairly good, but the Dublin hurlers are the epitomy of physicality ahead of skill and it has shown to prove costly in the Championship. Couldn't judge Baker as a manager at the moment.

Lago

premierstone wrote: »

Thanks for sharing that with us on a GAA board, even though you hate the GAA

Good one bru! :rolleyes: Like I said, I hate the organisation, I love the sport

keane2097 wrote: »

Yeah I totally agree with this. It's a constant bugbear of mine that when it comes to coaches, many in the GAA seem to have less interest in making their players the best they can be than they have in making sure they get the hour of torment they owe the player.

Just last night I was out for dinner with my cousin and we were talking about how back when he was a minor he ripped his hamstring off the bone the fourth day having played the Frewen Cup final, trained with the seniors and played a soccer match & extra time the three days prior.

The utter mindlessness of making a player train just for the sake of it drives me bananas. No thought is given to how much the guy has been doing with other teams, no mind to recovery, just so long as I get to run the fcuker on my day.

Talking to Tommy Walsh about the difference between professionalism and amateurism he had nothing but praise for the amount of effort GAA players put in but was borderline derisory of the attitude coaches take to recovery citing that as the main difference between the two. According to him, two thirds of his week was spent with staff working on "getting him right", in GAA three quarters is spent trying to make sure you're suffering.

Exactly, recovery isn't even a consideration. It's pretty disheartening to be playing senior football and have to ask your coach for a warm down after a match or just to do it yourself.

I'm suppose to have training tonight and all I can think is thank **** I'm injured and don't have to listen to them eegits tell me to do intense running around a swamp of a pitch for an hour and destroy my leg muscles. After pre-season training, I was far less fit than I was after Christmas simply because my trainers think that training is about punishment, not development.

I was talking to my physio about this and he said that even though he causes me a lot of pain during treatment, everything he's doing has a reason and a benefit and training should be the same, there's no point doing anything without a point to it. And he's dead right.

It's that that drives me to learn about health and fitness in my spare time simply I fix the problems my trainers cause

premierstone

I think one of the biggest shortcomings in unsuccessfull managers is the refusal to acknowledge that with any given panel of 30 players you have numerous different personalities and dynamics.

The one fits all approach no longer is sufficent, take Babs or Davy as perfect examples, they seem to think that they are the overlords, all the players are slaves and the best approach to achieve maximum results and performance is to roar and ball like a jack ass and abuse all in sundry at every given chance.

The reality is that within a panel of 30 you will have a % of players where this in your face approach will yield the best results, another who need to be told they are great lads alltogether and have their egos massaged and then the rest need to be challenged.

Clareman

Mountainlad wrote: »

I have no doubt that the likes of Davy, Daly and Ollie Baker's management styles are heavily influenced by Loughnane's tenure in Clare

I couldn't disagree with you more, yes Loughnane was a massive influence, but he wasn't the biggest reason so many Clare players have gone into management.

Mike Mac did the physical work, the players would be broken down before being built up, so that's a lot of it. The other thing to remember is where Clare were coming from, nowhere, the players that came through had NOTHING to use as a launch pad and would do whatever was needed to win. This was a team where a fella with a broken collar bone would stand at the edge of the square rather than have the team down to 14, this was a team of bachelors who gave up EVERYTHING to win, they honestly can't believe that everyone else isn't the same mindset. I think you are also doing a mis-service to a lot of other members of those teams that have gone on to train teams, people like Sparrow, Cyril Lyons, Jamesey and Lohan have done a lot with teams.

Mountainlad

Clareman wrote: »

I couldn't disagree with you more, yes Loughnane was a massive influence, but he wasn't the biggest reason so many Clare players have gone into management.

Mike Mac did the physical work, the players would be broken down before being built up, so that's a lot of it. The other thing to remember is where Clare were coming from, nowhere, the players that came through had NOTHING to use as a launch pad and would do whatever was needed to win. This was a team where a fella with a broken collar bone would stand at the edge of the square rather than have the team down to 14, this was a team of bachelors who gave up EVERYTHING to win, they honestly can't believe that everyone else isn't the same mindset. I think you are also doing a mis-service to a lot of other members of those teams that have gone on to train teams, people like Sparrow, Cyril Lyons, Jamesey and Lohan have done a lot with teams.

I really don't know much about the way Sparrow managed Clare, or Jamesie's involvement with teams and I know Brian Lohan was over UL this year but not much about their training. Was Lyons not a selector under Ger?

I would agree with you about the kind of players they were, but I think Davy is trying to and believes he can make every hurler into that mould. There is a massive emphasis on physicality rather than on skill. Mind you, I think Daly knows what he's at when it somes to Strength and Conditioning (i.e. he knows what kind of an expert to look for and what the players need) whereas Davy doesn't.

And Mike Mac may have been the physical trainer, but Loughnane was manager and he decided how much physical training they'd do. I wouldn't neccesarily say Loughnane was the reason they are managing teams, but his legacy has left a massive imprint on their styles, too much so in my own opinion.