Managers Gone Mad?

keane2097

Most of us probably saw the video of an embarrassed Michael Murphy refusing to sign an autograph for a young Mayo girl after the league games a couple of weeks ago, and there was plenty in the media about a cringe inducing interview he was forced to do while not allowed answer any questions about Donegal. Both situations arose due to directives from the Donegal management muzzling their players.

Last weekend, Antrim stalwarts Tony Scullion and Michael McCann, who are brothers-in-law, were dropped from the panel to play Monaghan because they wanted to travel to the game separately from the rest of the panel so they could attend the anniversary mass of a relative.

There seem to be stories like these every week. This all seems a bit mad to me when you're talking about guys who are not being compensated.

In the positions these players are put in, a part of me feels like I'd tell the managers in question to go fcuk themselves and never play again, but then you're stuck in a position where you don't get to play the game you love for your county anymore.

What do people think of stuff like this? Any other examples?

Mountainlad

keane2097 wrote: »

Most of us probably saw the video of an embarrassed Michael Murphy refusing to sign an autograph for a young Mayo girl after the league games a couple of weeks ago, and there was plenty in the media about a cringe inducing interview he was forced to do while not allowed answer any questions about Donegal. Both situations arose due to directives from the Donegal management muzzling their players.

Last weekend, Antrim stalwarts Tony Scullion and Michael McCann, who are brothers-in-law, were dropped from the panel to play Monaghan because they wanted to travel to the game separately from the rest of the panel so they could attend the anniversary mass of a relative.

There seem to be stories like these every week. This all seems a bit mad to me when you're talking about guys who are not being compensated.

In the positions these players are put in, a part of me feels like I'd tell the managers in question to go fcuk themselves and never play again, but then you're stuck in a position where you don't get to play the game you love for your county anymore.

What do people think of stuff like this? Any other examples?

In Damian Lawlor's book about the Waterford footballers in 2009 called "Working on a Dream", Liam Lawlor talks about how a few years previous he asked Justin McCarthy for permission to attend his cousin's wedding which clashed with a challenge match. McCarthy said to him "We want you to come because we're going to give you a start in the game" or something like that (Lawlor hadn't been getting much gametime I believe). So he attended the match, and played either 15mins in an 80 minute match or didn't play at all.

premierstone

Davy Fitz and he's antics would put all of these into the shade.

Mountainlad

premierstone wrote: »

Davy Fitz and he's antics would put all of these into the shade.

A referee in Waterford was doing a Fitzigbbon cup game a few years ago, LIT were playing. He said between Fitzgerald and Cyril Farrell, the language coming out of them was shocking. Said he wouldn't leave his child play for a team if they were managing.

keane2097

premierstone wrote: »

Davy Fitz and he's antics would put all of these into the shade.

Oh yeah?

premierstone

keane2097 wrote: »

Oh yeah?

Was managing a club team in Tipp and told all the players to meet at the field to bring an overnight bag and their gear and passports. As they got on the bus they were all told to hand over their phones and passports and the bus proceeded to take them a few miles out the road to a complex where they were locked in for nearly 48 hours for some 'personal' training - these guys had families who they had no way of contacting to say they were ok, others were due in work.

While in the same job he employed a specialist goalkeeping coach to work with the Keepers (at quite a cost btw) even though the man himself is the holder of 3 all stars, the coach he employed just happened to be a relative of he's, he's spell with this club lasted 2 championship games both of which they lost and he then walked away leaving a massive financial mess behind.

Mountainlad

premierstone wrote: »

Was managing a club team in Tipp and told all the players to meet at the field to bring an overnight bag and their gear and passports. As they got on the bus they were all told to hand over their phones and passports and the bus proceeded to take them a few miles out the road to a complex where they were locked in for nearly 48 hours for some 'personal' training - these guys had families who they had no way of contacting to say they were ok, others were due in work.

While in the same job he employed a specialist goalkeeping coach to work with the Keepers (at quite a cost btw) even though the man himself is the holder of 3 all stars, the coach he employed just happened to be a relative of he's, he's spell with this club lasted 2 championship games both of which they lost and he then walked away leaving a massive financial mess behind.

Why did he take their passports?

Red Crow

premierstone wrote: »

Was managing a club team in Tipp and told all the players to meet at the field to bring an overnight bag and their gear and passports. As they got on the bus they were all told to hand over their phones and passports and the bus proceeded to take them a few miles out the road to a complex where they were locked in for nearly 48 hours for some 'personal' training - these guys had families who they had no way of contacting to say they were ok, others were due in work.

While in the same job he employed a specialist goalkeeping coach to work with the Keepers (at quite a cost btw) even though the man himself is the holder of 3 all stars, the coach he employed just happened to be a relative of he's, he's spell with this club lasted 2 championship games both of which they lost and he then walked away leaving a massive financial mess behind.

He had a meeting a day or two before he was announced as the Waterford manager with the Nenagh lads and told them that they were his number one priority. His training sessions rippled them too. It wasn't just Davy in it either. His top Sunday Panel side-kick was there too. The whole thing was a farce.

Apparently Davy has fallen out with the echelons of Clare hurling now too.

premierstone

Mountainlad wrote: »

Why did he take their passports?

It would be folly to attempt to understand <Mod Snip>, can only surmise he told them all to bring them so they would think they were heading off somewhere for a bit of craic, thus ensuring they would all turn up.

Clareman

Folks,

Lets keep name calling out of the discussion.

Also, as always, remember that you are posting under the rules of boards and the charter of the GAA forum, please don't overstep the mark and make us step in an hand out infringements/bans.

Lemlin

premierstone wrote: »

It would be folly to attempt to understand <Mod Snip>, can only surmise he told them all to bring them so they would think they were heading off somewhere for a bit of craic, thus ensuring they would all turn up.

Your story doesn't really add up then. He told them to bring their passports because they were going away yet they hadn't a chance to tell their families or work? Surely if they thought they were going away they'd have mentioned it.

Story sounds like complete and utter bull to me to be honest. I can't see any panel of grown men agreeing to the situation you've described.

premierstone

Eli Manning wrote: »

He had a meeting a day or two before he was announced as the Waterford manager with the Nenagh lads and told them that they were his number one priority. His training sessions rippled them too. It wasn't just Davy in it either. His top Sunday Panel side-kick was there too. The whole thing was a farce.

Apparently Davy has fallen out with the echelons of Clare hurling now too.

Shur Daddy is the County Board Secetary and he's sister is the chairperson of the supporters club, he'll be alright, plenty of opportunity for him to break the county board ( he has 26 various staff working with the Senior Panel) and potentially ruin the most talented generation of players that Clare have ever produced.

keane2097

This sort of treatment of players is just too much IMO, at club level even more so.

Guy's don't deserve to be treated like slabs of meat whose sole purpose is to win a manager trophies. It's very undignified.

Clareman

Lemlin wrote: »

Your story doesn't really add up then. He told them to bring their passports because they were going away yet they hadn't a chance to tell their families or work? Surely if they thought they were going away they'd have mentioned it.

Story sounds like complete and utter bull to me to be honest. I can't see any panel of grown men agreeing to the situation you've described.

It's true, he did that with Clare last year as well, brought them up Carrauntoohil overnight, I think it's part of his mentality training that players have to be ready to give up everything.

68Murph68

I can't help but wonder how much of this is related to payments to managers.

Reeks of lads getting paid for managing teams coming up with antics/stunts to justify the payments they are receiving.

You'd imagine it would be relatively easy for a player to set up an anonymous email account and send an email to local/national journalists. Papers don't refuse ink and I'd imagine that they wouldn't be long investigating.

premierstone

Lemlin wrote: »

Your story doesn't really add up then. He told them to bring their passports because they were going away yet they hadn't a chance to tell their families or work?

They were just told to bring their passports and an overnight bag, never told where they were going or what for.

keane2097

68Murph68 wrote: »

Reeks of lads getting paid for managing teams coming up with antics/stunts to justify the payments they are receiving.

This.

premierstone

Lemlin wrote: »

Your story doesn't really add up then. He told them to bring their passports because they were going away yet they hadn't a chance to tell their families or work? Surely if they thought they were going away they'd have mentioned it.

Story sounds like complete and utter bull to me to be honest. I can't see any panel of grown men agreeing to the situation you've described.

Davy has done far worse than this believe me, I have heard of another panel of players he was in charge of who were taken into the depths of a forest.

Believe me or not Im not that bothered, I have no reason to make it up, I am related to two members of the said panel and would be good friends with 4 or 5 others, it definitely happened.

galtee mountain boy

OP, any particular reason why Michael Murphy refused to give the girl his autograph? Was it managements instructions not to or what?

Lago

Personally this is the main reason I hate the GAA. I love playing Gaelic Football but to play it feels like I have to go through punishment for the "privilage". I know lads on the Kildare panel and last year McGeeney wasted the already financial struggling board's money to go to Portugal (I think) for a training camp, forced the players to pay for the travel themselves and before they left said something along the lines of we're not going for a holiday.

The problem is that the GAA is so backward. The idea still seems to be the more pain and miseryyou can inflict on a player, the better it is for him. Sure run 3 miles in a swamp or lift a tractor tire across the field and you'll be the fittest lad out there.

Please, it's just laziness and stupidity on the part of those in charge. Not that I'm good enough but if I ever got asked to play for my county, I'd have no reason or motivation to do so. Pride in my county? Piss off, I'm not going to go through some sort of penance just so people who live near can watch me play

premierstone

Lago wrote: »

Personally this is the main reason I hate the GAA. I love playing Gaelic Football but to play it feels like I have to go through punishment for the "privilage". I know lads on the Kildare panel and last year McGeeney wasted the already financial struggling board's money to go to Portugal (I think) for a training camp, forced the players to pay for the travel themselves and before they left said something along the lines of we're not going for a holiday.

The problem is that the GAA is so backward. The idea still seems to be the more pain and miseryyou can inflict on a player, the better it is for him. Sure run 3 miles in a swamp or lift a tractor tire across the field and you'll be the fittest lad out there.

Please, it's just laziness and stupidity on the part of those in charge. Not that I'm good enough but if I ever got asked to play for my county, I'd have no reason or motivation to do so. Pride in my county? Piss off, I'm not going to go through some sort of penance just so people who live near can watch me play

Thanks for sharing that with us on a GAA board, even though you hate the GAA

Lemlin

premierstone wrote: »

They were just told to bring their passports and an overnight bag, never told where they were going or what for.

So they had a chance to tell their families and work that they were going away with the team?

Sort of makes part of your original post a null point.

I don't believe alot of these stories to be honest. I think certain managers do go to lengths but then people hear the stories and add their own little parts and it snowballs.

premierstone

Lemlin wrote: »

So they had a chance to tell their families and work that they were going away with the team?

Sort of makes part of your original post a null point.

I don't believe alot of these stories to be honest. I think certain managers do go to lengths but then people hear the stories and add their own little parts and it snowballs.

They couldnt tell them where they were going or how long for as they had no idea, one would imagine they said 'If im not going to be back I'll give you a call'' pretty hard to do when your phone has been confiscated.

Look Im not bothered one way or another whether you believe it or not, I know for 100% certain it happened and the very fact that you think its far fetched kind of illustrates my point in putting it in this thread!

Mountainlad

Clareman wrote: »

It's true, he did that with Clare last year as well, brought them up Carrauntoohil overnight, I think it's part of his mentality training that players have to be ready to give up everything.

I read about that one, Christy O Connor had a piece about it in the Sunday Times the day of the Waterford v Clare game I believe. I think they were training earlier in the day as well, and that they hadn't had food before they set out. It was pitch black when they did and the weather wasn't great. Not only is this madness in terms of the dangers of it, but it also doesn't seem wise to me.

Ok, so it does appear he was trying to teach them a lesson in mental toughness, and team spirit that they all did it together, but from a sporting point of view its a nightmare. Training already, lactic acid built up and then no refuelling and hydration. I know its not like the trained like that every week but its not the right way to go about things.

Davy is a bit mad in fairness, but like you see this ruthless streak in a lot of managers now and it's no wonder there are so many fallouts between players and managers. Good man management is reall undervalued. I know Donegal have won an All-ireland and the players would all talk highly of Jim McGuinness, but the story in the OP seem totally unneccesary and bad form really. From the stories I've heard about Kieran McGeeney, it seems he is not particularly friendly or unforgiving where GAA is concerned.

nice_guy80

and yet the most successful managers are those who don't pull 'stunts' to motivate players (granted they had excellent players to work with)

Cody
Jack O'Connor
Mickey Harte
Mick O'Dwyer (back in the day)
Sean Boylan

keane2097

galtee mountain boy wrote: »

OP, any particular reason why Michael Murphy refused to give the girl his autograph? Was it managements instructions not to or what?

Yeah apparently so.

Lago wrote: »

The problem is that the GAA is so backward. The idea still seems to be the more pain and miseryyou can inflict on a player, the better it is for him. Sure run 3 miles in a swamp or lift a tractor tire across the field and you'll be the fittest lad out there.

Please, it's just laziness and stupidity on the part of those in charge. Not that I'm good enough but if I ever got asked to play for my county, I'd have no reason or motivation to do so. Pride in my county? Piss off, I'm not going to go through some sort of penance just so people who live near can watch me play

Yeah I totally agree with this. It's a constant bugbear of mine that when it comes to coaches, many in the GAA seem to have less interest in making their players the best they can be than they have in making sure they get the hour of torment they owe the player.

Just last night I was out for dinner with my cousin and we were talking about how back when he was a minor he ripped his hamstring off the bone the fourth day having played the Frewen Cup final, trained with the seniors and played a soccer match & extra time the three days prior.

The utter mindlessness of making a player train just for the sake of it drives me bananas. No thought is given to how much the guy has been doing with other teams, no mind to recovery, just so long as I get to run the fcuker on my day.

Talking to Tommy Walsh about the difference between professionalism and amateurism he had nothing but praise for the amount of effort GAA players put in but was borderline derisory of the attitude coaches take to recovery citing that as the main difference between the two. According to him, two thirds of his week was spent with staff working on "getting him right", in GAA three quarters is spent trying to make sure you're suffering.

Mountainlad

nice_guy80 wrote: »

and yet the most successful managers are those who don't pull 'stunts' to motivate players (granted they had excellent players to work with)

Cody
Jack O'Connor
Mickey Harte
Mick O'Dwyer (back in the day)
Sean Boylan

But often their success is pinned on anecdotes about how they did this or that to motivate the team or about their character. So other managers try and 'think outside the box', and often come up with terrible ideas. I have no doubt that the likes of Davy, Daly and Ollie Baker's management styles are heavily influenced by Loughnane's tenure in Clare.

I think Davy is a bad manager. I think Daly is actually fairly good, but the Dublin hurlers are the epitomy of physicality ahead of skill and it has shown to prove costly in the Championship. Couldn't judge Baker as a manager at the moment.

Lago

premierstone wrote: »

Thanks for sharing that with us on a GAA board, even though you hate the GAA

Good one bru! :rolleyes: Like I said, I hate the organisation, I love the sport

keane2097 wrote: »

Yeah I totally agree with this. It's a constant bugbear of mine that when it comes to coaches, many in the GAA seem to have less interest in making their players the best they can be than they have in making sure they get the hour of torment they owe the player.

Just last night I was out for dinner with my cousin and we were talking about how back when he was a minor he ripped his hamstring off the bone the fourth day having played the Frewen Cup final, trained with the seniors and played a soccer match & extra time the three days prior.

The utter mindlessness of making a player train just for the sake of it drives me bananas. No thought is given to how much the guy has been doing with other teams, no mind to recovery, just so long as I get to run the fcuker on my day.

Talking to Tommy Walsh about the difference between professionalism and amateurism he had nothing but praise for the amount of effort GAA players put in but was borderline derisory of the attitude coaches take to recovery citing that as the main difference between the two. According to him, two thirds of his week was spent with staff working on "getting him right", in GAA three quarters is spent trying to make sure you're suffering.

Exactly, recovery isn't even a consideration. It's pretty disheartening to be playing senior football and have to ask your coach for a warm down after a match or just to do it yourself.

I'm suppose to have training tonight and all I can think is thank **** I'm injured and don't have to listen to them eegits tell me to do intense running around a swamp of a pitch for an hour and destroy my leg muscles. After pre-season training, I was far less fit than I was after Christmas simply because my trainers think that training is about punishment, not development.

I was talking to my physio about this and he said that even though he causes me a lot of pain during treatment, everything he's doing has a reason and a benefit and training should be the same, there's no point doing anything without a point to it. And he's dead right.

It's that that drives me to learn about health and fitness in my spare time simply I fix the problems my trainers cause

premierstone

I think one of the biggest shortcomings in unsuccessfull managers is the refusal to acknowledge that with any given panel of 30 players you have numerous different personalities and dynamics.

The one fits all approach no longer is sufficent, take Babs or Davy as perfect examples, they seem to think that they are the overlords, all the players are slaves and the best approach to achieve maximum results and performance is to roar and ball like a jack ass and abuse all in sundry at every given chance.

The reality is that within a panel of 30 you will have a % of players where this in your face approach will yield the best results, another who need to be told they are great lads alltogether and have their egos massaged and then the rest need to be challenged.

Clareman

Mountainlad wrote: »

I have no doubt that the likes of Davy, Daly and Ollie Baker's management styles are heavily influenced by Loughnane's tenure in Clare

I couldn't disagree with you more, yes Loughnane was a massive influence, but he wasn't the biggest reason so many Clare players have gone into management.

Mike Mac did the physical work, the players would be broken down before being built up, so that's a lot of it. The other thing to remember is where Clare were coming from, nowhere, the players that came through had NOTHING to use as a launch pad and would do whatever was needed to win. This was a team where a fella with a broken collar bone would stand at the edge of the square rather than have the team down to 14, this was a team of bachelors who gave up EVERYTHING to win, they honestly can't believe that everyone else isn't the same mindset. I think you are also doing a mis-service to a lot of other members of those teams that have gone on to train teams, people like Sparrow, Cyril Lyons, Jamesey and Lohan have done a lot with teams.

Mountainlad

Clareman wrote: »

I couldn't disagree with you more, yes Loughnane was a massive influence, but he wasn't the biggest reason so many Clare players have gone into management.

Mike Mac did the physical work, the players would be broken down before being built up, so that's a lot of it. The other thing to remember is where Clare were coming from, nowhere, the players that came through had NOTHING to use as a launch pad and would do whatever was needed to win. This was a team where a fella with a broken collar bone would stand at the edge of the square rather than have the team down to 14, this was a team of bachelors who gave up EVERYTHING to win, they honestly can't believe that everyone else isn't the same mindset. I think you are also doing a mis-service to a lot of other members of those teams that have gone on to train teams, people like Sparrow, Cyril Lyons, Jamesey and Lohan have done a lot with teams.

I really don't know much about the way Sparrow managed Clare, or Jamesie's involvement with teams and I know Brian Lohan was over UL this year but not much about their training. Was Lyons not a selector under Ger?

I would agree with you about the kind of players they were, but I think Davy is trying to and believes he can make every hurler into that mould. There is a massive emphasis on physicality rather than on skill. Mind you, I think Daly knows what he's at when it somes to Strength and Conditioning (i.e. he knows what kind of an expert to look for and what the players need) whereas Davy doesn't.

And Mike Mac may have been the physical trainer, but Loughnane was manager and he decided how much physical training they'd do. I wouldn't neccesarily say Loughnane was the reason they are managing teams, but his legacy has left a massive imprint on their styles, too much so in my own opinion.

RMDrive

keane2097 wrote: »

Yeah apparently so.



Yeah I totally agree with this. It's a constant bugbear of mine that when it comes to coaches, many in the GAA seem to have less interest in making their players the best they can be than they have in making sure they get the hour of torment they owe the player.

Just last night I was out for dinner with my cousin and we were talking about how back when he was a minor he ripped his hamstring off the bone the fourth day having played the Frewen Cup final, trained with the seniors and played a soccer match & extra time the three days prior.

The utter mindlessness of making a player train just for the sake of it drives me bananas. No thought is given to how much the guy has been doing with other teams, no mind to recovery, just so long as I get to run the fcuker on my day.

Talking to Tommy Walsh about the difference between professionalism and amateurism he had nothing but praise for the amount of effort GAA players put in but was borderline derisory of the attitude coaches take to recovery citing that as the main difference between the two. According to him, two thirds of his week was spent with staff working on "getting him right", in GAA three quarters is spent trying to make sure you're suffering.

What does apparently so mean? Do you have a source to back this up or anything to suggest it is true?

Clareman

Mountainlad wrote: »

I really don't know much about the way Sparrow managed Clare, or Jamesie's involvement with teams and I know Brian Lohan was over UL this year but not much about their training. Was Lyons not a selector under Ger?

Cyril managed Clare to the 2002 All Ireland final. Sparrow trained Adare to a couple of Limerick titles, Jamesie and Lohan have been involved in minor teams, as has Liam Doyle. He was also manager of the under 21s that won the All Ireland in 09

Mountainlad

Clareman wrote: »

Cyril managed Clare to the 2002 All Ireland final. Sparrow trained Adare to a couple of Limerick titles, Jamesie and Lohan have been involved in minor teams, as has Liam Doyle. He was also manager of the under 21s that won the All Ireland in 09

Was John Minogue not in charge of the 21s that won the all-ireland in 2009?

I knew Lyons managed Clare, but like he didn't play under Loughnane unlesss I'm mistaken? Because we could talk about Considine and indeed Mike Mac's time in charge either. I'm not having a go at Clare, I just think that the biggest influence on Daly and Davy in particular was Loughnane's go hard or go home style. Loughnane himself was a bit of a lunatic if we're being honest, though not an idiot or anything like it. He was and is quite smart.

You obviously disagree but I'm not really sure why yet.

Clareman

Mountainlad wrote: »

Was John Minogue not in charge of the 21s that won the all-ireland in 2009?

I knew Lyons managed Clare, but like he didn't play under Loughnane unlesss I'm mistaken? Because we could talk about Considine and indeed Mike Mac's time in charge either. I'm not having a go at Clare, I just think that the biggest influence on Daly and Davy in particular was Loughnane's go hard or go home style. Loughnane himself was a bit of a lunatic if we're being honest, though not an idiot or anything like it. He was and is quite smart.

You obviously disagree but I'm not really sure why yet.

Himself and Jim Mc were corner forwards in the League final when we got destroyed by Kilkenny, Loughnane realised we needed more pace in the forwards so in came Sparrow and Stephen Mac. He came on as a sub in the AI final, if you watch the final whistle you'll see that Jamesey was offering to let him take the last free. Himself and John Minogue were co-managers.

ProudDUB

galtee mountain boy wrote: »

OP, any particular reason why Michael Murphy refused to give the girl his autograph? Was it managements instructions not to or what?

I think that all the Donegal players were instructed to head straight back into the dressing room after the game, and not stay out on the pitch signing autographs, interacting with the fans/media etc etc. I don't think that it was specific to MM.

I love the idea of GAA fans getting to interact with their heros the way that they do. It's what sets the GAA apart from other sports, where you just don't often seen that happening. But if Jim Gavin said that he thinks that our chances of winning Sam are improved, if he gets to speak to the players back in the dressing room, immediately after each game, I'd say "No Problem Jim, you do whatever you have to do".

It's different for us. Dubs are so used to going to watch our team play in Croker, where fans are not allowed approach the players as they leave the pitch, it's not normally an issue for us. But if he applied that same rule to road games, or the O'Byrne Cup game that we play in Parnell Park, I'd be ok with it. I'd be disappointed if I had a young child with me who was dying to get a players autograph, but I certainly wouldn't think that the manager had gotten too big for his britches.

RMDrive

ProudDUB wrote: »

I think that all the Donegal players were instructed to head straight back into the dressing room after the game, and not stay out on the pitch signing autographs, interacting with the fans/media etc etc. I don't think that it was specific to MM.

I love the idea of GAA fans getting to interact with their heros the way that they do. It's what sets the GAA apart from other sports, where you just don't often seen that happening. But if Jim Gavin said that he thinks that our chances of winning Sam are improved, if he gets to speak to the players back in the dressing room, immediately after each game, I'd say "No Problem Jim, you do whatever you have to do".

It's different for us. Dubs are so used to going to watch our team play in Croker, where fans are not allowed approach the players as they leave the pitch, it's not normally an issue for us. But if he applied that same rule to road games, or the O'Byrne Cup game that we play in Parnell Park, I'd be ok with it. I'd be disappointed if I had a young child with me who was dying to get a players autograph, but I certainly wouldn't think that the manager had gotten too big for his britches.

Anything other than thoughts to back this up? Not very happy with source-less aspersions being cast at our boys like this. If it's true then provide a link, otherwise stop throwing mud.

Clareman

Mountainlad wrote: »

You obviously disagree but I'm not really sure why yet.

Oops, forgot to reply to this bit.

Loughnane's style of management was to leave his selectors look after their areas (physical and skills), breakdown the players for weeks leading up to games but then build them up to be the best in the world in the days leading up to the games.

There was no such thing as laying out gear before training/matches (I think Pat O'Donnell arrived a week before a match with a load of boots and he was cleared being told to bring Puma Kings), there was no such thing as diets or nutrition (after training all the players would head to the Sherwood for whatever they wanted and there was milk laid on for free from Golden Vale), there was no stats (except for the score board), there was no major tatical decisions (except aim the ball at Clancy or Fingers or diagonal away, never straight balls), no video analysis.

The players that have gone on to be involved in other teams aren't following any of Loughnane's styles, they are players that had to do whatever it took to win and did it, as managers they are trying to bring the "whatever it takes mentality" to their new teams

ProudDUB

RMDrive wrote: »

Anything other than thoughts to back this up? Not very happy with source-less aspersions being cast at our boys like this. If it's true then provide a link, otherwise stop throwing mud.

I think that I read it on here. Which is why I said, I think. Not that I know. I will try to do some digging to provide you a source.

Btw, it wasn't an aspersion or mud slinging. If you read the rest of my post, you'll see that I also said that I'd have no problem if Jim Gavin did the very same thing, if he thought that it was for the betterment of the team.

RMDrive

ProudDUB wrote: »

I think that I read it on here. Which is why I said, I think. Not that I know. I will try to do some digging.

I think you should delete/edit your post.

Clareman

RMDrive wrote: »

I think you should delete/edit your post.

If you have a problem with a post report it, don't call people out on thread.

keane2097

RMDrive wrote: »

I think you should delete/edit your post.

What are you on about? The video is here:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/194/1j4igdgadcfeueateuqntf.mp4/

Either he's not allowed sign autographs or he's behaving like a creep, knowing what I do of Murphy it's unlikely the latter but I don't have a press release to quote on the matter so feel free to choose whichever option you please.

I can dig up the articles related to the press conference where he said he wasn't allowed talk about Donegal if you want? It's pretty telling to see you jump straight to adversarial in the debate when all you need to do is a quick google to find sources for either incident. I never understand people roaring for something easy to find out about to be backed up, it's like if I don't come back to the thread to find it for you it didn't happen.

VONSHIRACH

ProudDUB wrote: »

I think that all the Donegal players were instructed to head straight back into the dressing room after the game, and not stay out on the pitch signing autographs, interacting with the fans/media etc etc. I don't think that it was specific to MM.

I love the idea of GAA fans getting to interact with their heros the way that they do. It's what sets the GAA apart from other sports, where you just don't often seen that happening. But if Jim Gavin said that he thinks that our chances of winning Sam are improved, if he gets to speak to the players back in the dressing room, immediately after each game, I'd say "No Problem Jim, you do whatever you have to do".

It's different for us. Dubs are so used to going to watch our team play in Croker, where fans are not allowed approach the players as they leave the pitch, it's not normally an issue for us. But if he applied that same rule to road games, or the O'Byrne Cup game that we play in Parnell Park, I'd be ok with it. I'd be disappointed if I had a young child with me who was dying to get a players autograph, but I certainly wouldn't think that the manager had gotten too big for his britches.

When I was a young lad of 13 or so an all-ireland winner and all-star hurler of my own county wouldn't sign my autograph book. This was when he was at his peak. I was dissapointed and never forgot what a mean thing it was to do. Even now I can't abide him.

In contrast, at a challenge match I got autographs of Micko and the 4 in a row kerry team. I still have them actually, its poignant now to look at the names of some of those guys who passed prematurely.

rpurfield

ProudDUB wrote: »

I think that all the Donegal players were instructed to head straight back into the dressing room after the game, and not stay out on the pitch signing autographs, interacting with the fans/media etc etc. I don't think that it was specific to MM.

I love the idea of GAA fans getting to interact with their heros the way that they do. It's what sets the GAA apart from other sports, where you just don't often seen that happening. But if Jim Gavin said that he thinks that our chances of winning Sam are improved, if he gets to speak to the players back in the dressing room, immediately after each game, I'd say "No Problem Jim, you do whatever you have to do".

It's different for us. Dubs are so used to going to watch our team play in Croker, where fans are not allowed approach the players as they leave the pitch, it's not normally an issue for us. But if he applied that same rule to road games, or the O'Byrne Cup game that we play in Parnell Park, I'd be ok with it. I'd be disappointed if I had a young child with me who was dying to get a players autograph, but I certainly wouldn't think that the manager had gotten too big for his britches.

love the interaction myself remember not long after meath won sam in 99 in school i was out on a break with some of the lads,i was in school in balbriggan, and we bumped into spud murphy whos fom our club.he stopped for a chat to see how i was getting on and all and the lads that were with me were amazed.

theres a lot of chancer managers out there especially at club level i often see club teams and id be convinced a fair amount of us on here would do a better job than them!!just on the interaction thing love this photo from the meath match on sunday

Clareman

rpurfield wrote: »

love the interaction myself remember not long after meath won sam in 99 in school i was out on a break with some of the lads,i was in school in balbriggan, and we bumped into spud murphy whos fom our club.he stopped for a chat to see how i was getting on and all and the lads that were with me were amazed.

theres a lot of chancer managers out there especially at club level i often see club teams and id be convinced a fair amount of us on here would do a better job than them!!just on the interaction thing love this photo from the meath match on sunday

The interaction between players and fans isn't just in GAA it's in rugby as well, you'll often meet Munster players walking around the place in Limerick, in fact a couple of years ago at Christmas Paul O'Connell seemed to follow me into every shop in the Crescent, it got so bad that he said to me in the 5th or 6th shop "I'm not following you, promise", the next day I was out for lunch and he walked in, jokingly he came over asking me not to call the guards on him, made a great impression on the work colleagues who were with me

Mountainlad

Clareman wrote: »

Oops, forgot to reply to this bit.

Loughnane's style of management was to leave his selectors look after their areas (physical and skills), breakdown the players for weeks leading up to games but then build them up to be the best in the world in the days leading up to the games.

There was no such thing as laying out gear before training/matches (I think Pat O'Donnell arrived a week before a match with a load of boots and he was cleared being told to bring Puma Kings), there was no such thing as diets or nutrition (after training all the players would head to the Sherwood for whatever they wanted and there was milk laid on for free from Golden Vale), there was no stats (except for the score board), there was no major tatical decisions (except aim the ball at Clancy or Fingers or diagonal away, never straight balls), no video analysis.

The players that have gone on to be involved in other teams aren't following any of Loughnane's styles, they are players that had to do whatever it took to win and did it, as managers they are trying to bring the "whatever it takes mentality" to their new teams

Would you think that he didn't incorporate any of those things in because they weren't really options at the time, or that certainly the GAA hadn't broken that ground yet? Like I would have thought that these managers doing that now is just a product of how management has progressed. And of course people are looking at anything and everything to try and gain some advantage over Kilkenny.

I would have thought the whatever it takes mentality was Loughnane's mantra. And also I would have thought that Loughnane recognized that his team weren't as skilful maybe as a team like Offaly (not to say they weren't at all or they didn't have some outstanding players) so he felt they needed the physical edge. Whether he delivered it himself or not wasn't the issue. Fitzgerald doesn't handle the physical training either.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

Lago wrote: »

I was talking to my physio about this and he said that even though he causes me a lot of pain during treatment, everything he's doing has a reason and a benefit and training should be the same, there's no point doing anything without a point to it. And he's dead right.

100% correct
2 of my best mates have Fifa coaching badges. One of the lads also plays a lot of GAA. One of the things they were thought when getting the Fifa badges, is everything that is done in the training session, the players should know when they can apply it to a real match situation. I have had very few managers that ever did this. I know some managers that have used the same drills for an u12 team, and a senior team! Same training sessions every time, same warm up routine, same drills in the same order, and a training match at the end. The 2 best managers I've ever had hardly ever gave the exact same training session twice, there would usually be something a bit different. These managers also got by far the best results out of out team.

As for the authoritarian style managers, there needs to be a level of respect between the players and managers. When the managers push players too far, this respect can easily be broken, and a player isn't going to play for a manager if there is no respect. Thats the reason I dropped football instead of hurling.

ciarriaithuaidh

On the OP, if Murphy has been instructed specifically not to sign autographs then it is petty by McGuinness, BUT maybe they were getting a bus somewhere to do a pool or other recovery session..or maybe he was rushing to get a flight to Glasgow for his new job and only had a few mins to speak to the players...or maybe there was some other reason, I don't know and neither do you. We DO know that McGuinness is fairly paranoid and can be very petty when he wants to be (Cassidy/Bogue affair for example), but I think its a step too far creating a thread having a dig at GAA managers based on this little incident. Another way of looking at it would be that if Michael Murphy signed 1 autograph, then he would probably be surrounded by 30+ kids and would be either massively delayed or would have to push past a lot of disappointed kids which would probably look a lot worse. Thats just a thought mind.

On Lago's posts, I feel sorry that you have trainers/managers who flog you and have no regard for warm down and recovery. That kind of attitude is totally wrong in every sense. You are going overboard saying that this kind of practice is prevalent in the entire GAA though..it isn't in my experience. Yes, there are still a few lunatics out there who see stretching as some sort of voodoo and like nothing better than seeing lads running through ankle deep mud..but they are a dying breed thankfully. Certainly in the clubs I've been involved with in the last 5 years there has been a massive evolution in terms of proper training techniques, proper recovery/rehabilitation/prehabilitation. I'm talking about even down as far as Junior club level here. Maybe things are vastly different in some counties, would be surprised if there was any half decent hurling or football club anywhere in the country who don't take sports science principles on board these days.

I think there IS a point to be made at county level about players being put under pressure (some by themselves) to play games when not 100% by some managers. It makes no sense and I don't know why they do it. One recent example I know of is a county player who went through a Sigerson campaign half injured. Went on a pre-arranged holiday in the middle of it and was told on his return that he was to play a meaningless game 36 hours after he landed back on Irish soil by his county manager. I think most of these incidents are part of some mindset of control or siege mentality by managers..Then again of course there are some (as mentioned in thread) who are just plain daft.

Just so people know the angle I'm coming from here, I'm a novice trainer/manager at club level myself. Know several others in the same boat and we'd be all of the same mindset regardng proper warm up/down, prehab training, nutrition/hydration etc....Maybe we're in the minority and I'm living in a bubble, but just think some of the criticism has been too harsh.

keane2097

Well I know you're one of the good ones old stock!

Tbh I have a bit of an issue with how players are treated in general of which this is just one angle. The service Michael McCann and in particular Tony Scullion have give to Antrim over the years lets face it with very little hope of any medals on the other side deserves so much better than a transient manager new in the door to boot them off the panelfor going to a relatives rememberence service. That's just inhumane. Apparently Scullion still doesn't know whether he's gone forgood or not.

There are a lot of others as well. Donaggy was dropped off the Kerry team for going to the Champions League final and missing training one night because his dogs got out and went missing. This was a couple of weeks after he lined out within a day or two of his dad dying. The level of entitlement fans and management seem to feel and the lack of acknowledgement that players have lives outside of this thing they voluntarily dedicate so much of themselves to is awful. I know players are only in there because they want to be but it doesn't have to be so black and white. A bit of compassion should be expected!

padd b1975

We in Mayo were well ahead of the posse when it comes to mad managers.

I am sure most posters will have heard about the infamous 'pushing cars' training session.

There was also the one where players were ordered to run up and down the field and jump in the air and pretend to catch an invisible size 5 O'NEILLS!!

Halfway through this particular drill, Anthony Finnerty was spotted running back to the dressing rooms, when asked where he was going he replied that he was going to get his gloves as it was starting to rain!!

Yep...

62 years and counting.

nice_guy80

padd b1975 wrote: »

We in Mayo were well ahead of the posse when it comes to mad managers.

I am sure most posters will have heard about the infamous 'pushing cars' training session.

There was also the one where players were ordered to run up and down the field and jump in the air and pretend to catch an invisible size 5 O'NEILLS!!

Halfway through this particular drill, Anthony Finnerty was spotted running back to the dressing rooms, when asked where he was going he replied that he was going to get his gloves as it was starting to rain!!

Yep...

62 years and counting.

pushing cars was actually a good idea

except players at the time weren't able to get their heads around it