Will any Irish Politician be 'Thatchered' on their passing?

pablomakaveli

Steve O wrote: »

Brian lenihan was one of the most incompetent politicians of all time, universally hated by most. Yet when he died he was almost like a superhero.

Just shows how fickle some people are.

I remember the Sunday Independent had a cringeworthy advert on tv for some pullout they had on his life. The ad basically seemed to paint him as some national hero in the most sycophantic way possible.

syklops

true wrote: »

No politicianin this state would be so brave. They are still on their Easter holidays, with their bigger pay and pension than Thatcher got. Even though she worked 80 hours a week. Some woman, universally admired from her old ally the USA, to China, whose p.m. said she was a woman of her word. If thats what "being thatchered" means, its a compliment. Being the first female p.m. , and then being the longest serving of the 20th century, certainly broke the mould. If you want to Thatcher something, break the mould.

Another one who doesn't read the news. Do you think introducing the property tax, water charges, et al are popular moves by the government??!?

speedboatchase

syklops wrote: »

Another one who doesn't read the news. Do you think introducing the property tax, water charges, et al are popular moves by the government??!?

Governing isn't about being popular.

true

syklops wrote: »

Another one who doesn't read the news. Do you think introducing the property tax, water charges, et al are popular moves by the government??!?

They are being told to do that by the troika or else we do not get to continue to be able to borrow 20 billion a year to throw at the public service, pensions, public spending etc.

syklops

speedboatchase wrote: »

Governing isn't about being popular.

Margaret Thatcher would agree with you.

Grayson

true wrote: »

she had guts, and even though she saw some of her friends and fellow democrats being intimidated / murdered ( Airey Neave etc etc ) she sacrificed her own personal liberty for the rest of her life for the common good.
No politicianin this state would be so brave. They are still on their Easter holidays, with their bigger pay and pension than Thatcher got. Even though she worked 80 hours a week. Some woman, universally admired from her old ally the USA, to China, whose p.m. said she was a woman of her word. If thats what "being thatchered" means, its a compliment. Being the first female p.m. , and then being the longest serving of the 20th century, certainly broke the mould. If you want to Thatcher something, break the mould.

To be fair, Dennis was loaded. (not that I don't agree with your point)


As for the OP, Bertie. It can't be said often enough, by enough people. But when he dies RTE will run a tribute calling him a "much loved politician who developed animosity from certain quarters near the end of his career". And not a single person will stand up and call him the lying cheating stealing bastard that he is.

syklops

true wrote: »

They are being told to do that by the troika or else we do not get to continue to be able to borrow 20 billion a year to throw at the public service, pensions, public spending etc.

So first you say they are not brave enough to make unpopular cuts, and then you say they are being made to make unpopular cuts by the trojka. Which is it?

RATM

Steve O wrote: »

Brian lenihan was one of the most incompetent politicians of all time, universally hated by most. Yet when he died he was almost like a superhero.

Just shows how fickle some people are.

I couldn't stand the guy, right throughout the crises it was obvious that he didn't have a clue what he was doing. I think the fact he always came across as genuine fooled a lot of people, no point someone being genuine if the political and economic path they've chosen leads to doomsday. In debate he used to preface every single sentence with his catchphrase 'The reality is.....' and then go off and tell you what the reality isn't.

I wouldn't blame Lenihan for our crises, the seeds of that were well sown by Ahern, McCreevy and Cowen. But Leneihan was the one who signed our soveignity away. He was playing a game of high stakes poker with the ECB and he lost and lost heavily as do the Irish people today. Ireland's bailout propped up the whole European banking system. He had an opportunity to say to them if you don't burn the bondholders then I'm not signing this and the whole of the European banking system will collapse. Take it or leave it. He was in a position of so much power in those negotiations and he didn't even have the smarts to realise it himself. Instead he sold the Irish people into paying for the debts of private speculators and bondholders, it was as unpatriotic as you can get.

To later hear the Sunday Independent put him on a pedestal and call him 'Brian the Brave' was sickening. The fact of the matter is that if he had of died of cancer sooner than he did then the next 30 years of Irish economic history just might have been very different

Zebra3

true wrote: »

she had guts, and even though she saw some of her friends and fellow democrats being intimidated / murdered ( Airey Neave etc etc ) she sacrificed her own personal liberty for the rest of her life for the common good.
No politicianin this state would be so brave. They are still on their Easter holidays, with their bigger pay and pension than Thatcher got. Even though she worked 80 hours a week. Some woman, universally admired from her old ally the USA, to China, whose p.m. said she was a woman of her word. If thats what "being thatchered" means, its a compliment. Being the first female p.m. , and then being the longest serving of the 20th century, certainly broke the mould. If you want to Thatcher something, break the mould.

What do you think of her support for loyalist death squads? And Pol Pot? and Pinochet? And Saddam?

true

syklops wrote: »

So first you say they are not brave enough to make unpopular cuts, and then you say they are being made to make unpopular cuts by the trojka. Which is it?

Our government or other politicians in this state ( the previous govt ) would never be brave enough to stand up to the unions the way Mrs T. stood up to the unions and won, for the good of the UK as a whole, as all economists would agree.

true

Zebra3 wrote: »

What do you think of her support for loyalist death squads?

she always condemned them and jailed them. As for the rest, read through the threads. As regards Saddam when he invated Kuwait, she would have been the first to fight him back, had she been in power then. There would have been a lot more invasion of little countries had she not taught Argentina a lesson about the Falklands.

Zebra3

true wrote: »

she always condemned them and jailed them. As for the rest, read through the threads. As regards Saddam when he invated Kuwait, she would have been the first to fight him back, had she been in power then. There would have been a lot more invasion of little countries had she not taught Argentina a lesson about the Falklands.

She condemned the loyalist death squads in public, while ensuring nothing was done to hamper the British army giving them weapons and intelligence to carry out the murders of innocent civilians.

And a bit late her "standing against Saddam" over Kuwait after supporting him gassing innocent civilians.

true

Zebra3 wrote: »

She sondemned the loyalist death squads in public, while ensuring nothing was done to hamper the British army giving them weapons and intelligence to carry out the murders of innocent civilians.

There was no motive or need in the British army giving weapons or intelligence to carry out the murdering of "innocent civilians". Everyone knew who innocent civilians were without the need for intelligence from the British army.
You are just spouting propoganda you have been fed without thinking it through.

As Regards Saddam, world stage politicians have to choose "the lesser of 2 evils" the whole time. She would not have supported the gassing of innocent civilians there either.

Agricola

I doubt it. The nearest we've come is Haughey but hes in the ha'penny place compared to Thatcher. It's not like he set out to impoverish half of the nation, it's his personal "financial irregularities" that people will vilify him for. But then I think a lot of people secretly admire that kind of thing.

Anyway I don't think Irish people do venom and naked hate for public figures, or any figure for that matter. We are too polite and culturally Catholic for that.

Zebra3

true wrote: »

There was no motive or need in the British army giving weapons or intelligence to carry out the murdering of "innocent civilians". Everyone knew who innocent civilians were without the need for intelligence from the British army.
You are just spouting propoganda you have been fed without thinking it through.

As Regards Saddam, world stage politicians have to choose "the lesser of 2 evils" the whole time. She would not have supported the gassing of innocent civilians there either.

There was a motive for the British Army and RUC to be handing weapons and intelligence to loyalist murderers. The idea was to slaughter enough nationalists to force the IRA into a ceasefire. Loyalist killers have spoken openly about the strategy and members of the British security forces have spoken about how they facilitated it.

The West and Saudi Arabia were bankrolling Saddam's war of aaggression on Iran while he was gassing civilians. They had the power to call him to account for his war crimes and they didn't.

weemcd

There will be pints on me the day Ian Paisley croaks it.

One of the most hateful people to ever walk this island

Nforce

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pifibs_q7ec

Fast forward to ~7 mins in

Czarcasm

Nforce wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pifibs_q7ec

Fast forward to ~7 mins in

^^ N'awful gobshìte!


At least Ian Paisley the loudmouth prick got a mention, but I'm surprised Martin McGuinness the smarmy little prick didn't get a mention, nor Gerry Adams, the self serving prick, and of course who could forget Mary Lou, though I don't think she'll get half as much vitriol as the other three.

Joan Burton hasn't done herself any favors forgetting her labour roots, but then the same could be said of Eamonn Gilmore...

Out of the whole lot I'd say it'll be Ian Paisley and Martin McGuinness will get the worst obituaries.

Zebra3

Czarcasm wrote: »

Joan Burton hasn't done herself any favors forgetting her labour roots, but then the same could be said of Eamonn Gilmore...

The diference between them though is that Gilmore doesn't have any Labour roots.

mikemac1

VinLieger wrote: »

One would hope but as hes an ex-taoiseach it will of course be news, although i really hope he doesnt get a state funeral. Fitzgerald deffinitely deserved one,

I didn't know Garrett Fitzgerald had died until I read this post!

I remember Haughey's funeral in Donnycarney, I can't remember Fitzgerald's funeral as big news, I clearly missed it all

Czarcasm

Zebra3 wrote: »

The diference between them though is that Gilmore doesn't have any Labour roots.

No?

Source: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eamon_Gilmore

Born in County Galway, Gilmore graduated from University College Galway, becoming President of the Union of Students in Ireland. Later, as a trade union organiser, he entered local politics. As a Democratic Left TD, he was central in negotiating that party's merger with Labour. He was beaten by fellow former Democratic Left TD, Pat Rabbitte, in Labour's 2002 leadership election, and was instead appointed as the party's Environment, Housing and Local Government spokesperson. He was elected unopposed to the leadership in 2007.

Prior to establishing a career in politics, Gilmore served as a trade union organiser. He joined the Irish Transport & General Workers’ Union (now SIPTU) in 1978 and, after brief spells in Dublin No. 4 (Hotels & Catering) and Dublin No. 14 (Engineering) Branches, was rapidly promoted to become Acting Secretary of the Galway Branch (1978–79), Secretary of Tralee Branch (1979–81), and of the Professional & Managerial Staffs Branch (1981–89). He was heavily involved in organising tax protests in Galway and resisting redundancies and closures in Kerry.[11]

shopaholic01

Czarcasm wrote: »

Adams, the self serving prick, and of course who could forget Mary Lou, though I don't think she'll get half as much vitriol as the other three.

She's getting twice the amount of food though.
She'll soon make Mary Harney look like a whippet.

hatrickpatrick

Politicians not so much. I mean people were fairly graceful about Brian Lenihan and he is arguably more responsible for our current predicament than the rest of the last cabinet.

I wouldn't be so sure about Sean Fitzie and the rest of his Anglo crew though. I personally wouldn't celebrate anyone's death to be honest, but I wouldn't be surprised if similar antics take place whenever their time comes.

Zebra3

Czarcasm wrote: »

No?

Source: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eamon_Gilmore

His roots are not in the Labour Party.

He was in Sinn Fein The Workers Party when he was young, and attended an international communist youth get together in Cuba.

Nowadays he strives to look after the interests of a rich, corrupt elite.

He's come along way. Hope the power, perks, and pension are worth it.

sock puppet

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Politicians not so much. I mean people were fairly graceful about Brian Lenihan and he is arguably more responsible for our current predicament than the rest of the last cabinet.

I wouldn't be so sure about Sean Fitzie and the rest of his Anglo crew though. I personally wouldn't celebrate anyone's death to be honest, but I wouldn't be surprised if similar antics take place whenever their time comes.

Not unless they die in the next 10 - 15 years I'd say. People never remember bank collapses, and the people behind them are even less memorable.

Czarcasm

Zebra3 wrote: »

His roots are not in the Labour Party.

He was in Sinn Fein The Workers Party when he was young, and attended an international communist youth get together in Cuba.

Nowadays he strives to look after the interests of a rich, corrupt elite.

He's come along way. Hope the power, perks, and pension are worth it.

Ahh right, I get you now Zebra, I meant Labour Party roots as in the original ideals of Connolly and Larkin and their formation of the ITGWU* of which Gilmore was a very active member in fairness.




*The unions too seem to have forgotten their original ideals and become as Zebra says just another quango of self serving gobshìtes that let the power and the perks go to their heads.

schnitzelEater

Brian 'Pigs Lips' Cowen. Hopefully.

Chuck Stone

true wrote: »

I love M. Thatcher
I love M. Thatcher
I love M. Thatcher
I love M. Thatcher
I love M. Thatcher
I love M. Thatcher

Your ceaseless fawning over Thatcher is truly vomit inducing.

Stop ffs.

Zebra3

Czarcasm wrote: »

Ahh right, I get you now Zebra, I meant Labour Party roots as in the original ideals of Connolly and Larkin and their formation of the ITGWU* of which Gilmore was a very active member in fairness.




*The unions too seem to have forgotten their original ideals and become as Zebra says just another quango of self serving gobshìtes that let the power and the perks go to their heads.

Labour's roots and its current actions.

Has a party ever travelled so far from its original raison d'être?

Czarcasm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Has a party ever travelled so far from its original raison d'être?

That was my original point Zebra-

Joan Burton hasn't done herself any favors forgetting her labour roots, but then the same could be said of Eamonn Gilmore...

Now, I'm off to get a football sized anadin, my brain is melting from the circular explanations