Cheap version of a reseed

locky76

Hey folks, I was at a discussion group meeting yesterday & the facilitator suggested the following as a cheap method of a reseed:

•Graze the field down to the bare butt...
•grass harrow the field
•spread 2 bags of granular lime (€15)
•spread a bag of grass seed(€70)
•lightly roll the paddock
•coat it with slurry, 2k gallons
•go with a bag of pasture sward 2 weeks later
•graze it tight and often with light cattle for the rest of the year

What do people make of this?

Muckit

+1. I think this could be the way to go, ie overseeding, especially for beef farmers to keep costs low. Different for dairy farmers where returns are better for full reseeds. Was article on this method on last Tues farming indo. Bonus is majority if not all can be done by farmer with limited amount of machinery necessary

delaval

This will only work with regular and quick grazing with light animals, that is every fortnight If not old grass will take over then very expensive exercise.

reilig

+2

Will work perfectly. You may have to go over it twice with the grass harrow which isn't a lot extra, in order to dust it up a bit before seeding - you'll know after the first run anyway.

Muckit

delaval wrote: »

This will only work with regular and quick grazing with light animals, that is every fortnight If not old grass will take over then very expensive exercise.

Yes haven't tried it yet, but from what I've read management after is critical. Keep it bared tight and often help get new seedlings established. It's not a new concept by any means. Loads of US videos on youtube about it

locky76

Muckit wrote: »

Yes haven't tried it yet, but from what I've read management after is critical. Keep it bared tight and often help get new seedlings established. It's not a new concept by any means. Loads of US videos on youtube about it

good man muckit, any chance you could post up a few of the YouTube links or maybe what to search under?

mr.stonewall

Just wondering if it got burnt off first. Thinking of doing some damaged ground from last year the following way. Land leveller, chain harrow, lime and fert, seed and roll. Would have the competition form the old grass gone and managing would a bit easier.

mf240

In bog this is the only way to do it as you keep the skin on top of the ground but I think it's worth a spray of roundup first.

dharn

locky76 wrote: »

good man muckit, any chance you could post up a few of the YouTube links or maybe what to search under?

Why not burn off with roundup to unsure weed, old grass kill, harrowing / grazing will have no effect on old docks

Markcheese

Lad I know has a clover system...skins the field, roughs it up a couple of times with Harrow,rolls in seed, and keeps it grazed with light stock... He has an einbock grass harrow with a seeder on it though... Weather and time of year plays a good part ...

bob charles

lads any chance you can send me on where you are getting this cheap grass seed that you are going using considering most of what you will spread with never come to anything. a poor reseed is one of the most expensive mistakes you can make. The competition from the old grasses will just be too much. Much better off get someone to direct drill the pasture and use a few ltrs of roundup. You can get level grass fields reseeded for €50 an acre machinery costs that would also include the spraying, add on some lime, seed and fert and thats what I would consider a perfect job done well worth of money.

Saving a few quid over what will probably be a ten year investment is just cutting of your nose to spite your face

Farmer Pudsey

I would have to disagree with facilitator. It will work now and again however unless conditions are right it will fail. Take grazing after slurry unless it rains after applied it will coat old grass and cattle will not graze it so old grasses will take over.

There is also the issue with getting rid of weeds in old pasture cattle will not control these.

Another option is to if you can get someone with the independent disc harrow, these will till and leave a fairly good quality bed for seed after it has being sprayed and grazed off. Just chain harrow spread seed roll and close the gate. A banger is handy for the crows.

Muckit

Tetraploids are recommended for overseeding as they're supposed to be the most vigorous ryegrass.

It does seem too good to be true, as I say, never used overseed method. The advantage, if it works, is that there's quick turn around time compared to a full reseed.

Bob/Pudsey are no daws. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. An extra few weeks is nothing when put over 10 years.

It'd be good to hear from others that have first hand experience of either succesess or failures.

Farmer Pudsey

The issue with reseeding is that if you go down the Spray/plough/level/roll/harrow/seed and roll again it is both time consuming and expensive. Even one pass add cost. Stiching or discing with an independent disc machine are fast and cheap.

The most important thinks that farmers forget is a post emergence spray and lime. Even id you have spread grounf lime I would use a bag of granlime/acre as it prevents the old scraw from acidify the surface as it decays. Another thing is slug pellets especially with stiching.

reilig

The practice thjat the op is talking about is overseeding as opposed to killing off the old grass and sowing new grass into it. Overseeding is tried and tested all over the world. It's a simple practice. Anyone who outwintered cattle like we did years ago may remember how the poached ground was recovered - you sawed down a big blackthorn bush, pulled it over the poached ground to level it out and then went along with your bucket and spread it over the ground.

Bob, Delaval and Pudsey are right to a point. If it fails, it's an expensive mistake. There are 3 reasons why it would fail:
1. It doesn't get enough moisture.
2. It doesn't get to a temperature for it to germinate
3. It is smothered by the old grass.

We don't ever have a problem with moisture in these parts and have never had an overseed or a reseed fail for lack of moisture because there's rarely a week that goes by that you won't have moisture. If you have very dry land or are in a warmer climate than here, you will have to watch this.

Don't attempt an overseed until may. That's my based on my own experience. Even better again is to do an overseed in August when soil temperatures are still high, but the old grass has slowed down in growth.

You have to graze an overseed. Best way to do it is with lambs as they will do the least amount of damage.

Spreading slurry is risky, but it is a good contributor to growth. Slurry has to be very thin so that it does not form a crust over the seeds which smothers them. Best of all is pig slurry.

Plenty of videos on youtube about it:

I have no doubt that direct drilling is probably the best method, but contractors around here charge more than the quoted €50 per acre. They come at times best suited to them, and they want a minimum of 20 acres at a time to do when they have to travel a distance.

For that reason, careful planning, timing and management means that I can get the job done correctly with a chain harrow and I have never had an issue with seed failure. I can use machines that are on the farm already and can do a couple of acres at a time - when I want to do them!

Muckit

Just trying out embedding a youtube video.. hope it works...

I think I'I buy that fendt and drill :D:D:D:D:D

Watch entire video... don't mind the machinery, could be done like what reilig said

locky76

Well folks, the cheap reseed went ahead today. I harrowed the ground North-South slowly and East-West quickly, I then spread a bag of gran lime to the acre, I then spread 1 bag of grass seed to the acre with the co-op seed barrow. It's after raining this evening so I won't roll it (afraid of seeds sticking to the roller), it'll get 1,500 gallons of watery slurry tomorrow afternoon.
Should I roll if I get a fine half day?
I'll spread the pasture sward in a fortnight and graze it a fortnight later with 250kg heifers...

49801

locky76 wrote: »

Well folks, the cheap reseed went ahead today. I harrowed the ground North-South slowly and East-West quickly, I then spread a bag of gran lime to the acre, I then spread 1 bag of grass seed to the acre with the co-op seed barrow. It's after raining this evening so I won't roll it (afraid of seeds sticking to the roller), it'll get 1,500 gallons of watery slurry tomorrow afternoon.
Should I roll if I get a fine half day?
I'll spread the pasture sward in a fortnight and graze it a fortnight later with 250kg heifers...

Fair play for getting stuck in
Did u burn off?
I would roll it even post emergance

locky76

49801 wrote: »

Fair play for getting stuck in
Did u burn off?
I would roll it even post emergance

I did'nt spray it off although I'll give it a post emergence spray.
How long can I leave it before I roll, it'll need a while to dry it so the seeds won't stick.
I'll take a few pics tomorrow. And a few in a fortnight to show the progress(or lack of...)

Damo810

Could it be seen as a long term solution? Instead of reseeding every 9-15 years, you try this every 5-10 to keep the sward fresh and bulky? Would it work out any cheaper? Give better/worse results? Theres some of our silage ground and it's not been re-seeded in nigh on 30 years, could definitely do with a reseed, costly business though..

Muckit

locky76 wrote: »

Well folks, the cheap reseed went ahead today. I harrowed the ground North-South slowly and East-West quickly, I then spread a bag of gran lime to the acre, I then spread 1 bag of grass seed to the acre with the co-op seed barrow. It's after raining this evening so I won't roll it (afraid of seeds sticking to the roller), it'll get 1,500 gallons of watery slurry tomorrow afternoon.
Should I roll if I get a fine half day?
I'll spread the pasture sward in a fortnight and graze it a fortnight later with 250kg heifers...

Good man. I hope it goes well for you. Now go get the camera and take a pic! And take another one in 6weeks time! Then post them up here!

Farmer Pudsey

locky76 wrote: »

Well folks, the cheap reseed went ahead today. I harrowed the ground North-South slowly and East-West quickly, I then spread a bag of gran lime to the acre, I then spread 1 bag of grass seed to the acre with the co-op seed barrow. It's after raining this evening so I won't roll it (afraid of seeds sticking to the roller), it'll get 1,500 gallons of watery slurry tomorrow afternoon.
Should I roll if I get a fine half day?
I'll spread the pasture sward in a fortnight and graze it a fortnight later with 250kg heifers...

Do not roll as seeds may have chitted after the rain and you could kill them. Best of luck with it. Get the slurry on asap.

Farmer Pudsey

Damo810 wrote: »

Could it be seen as a long term solution? Instead of reseeding every 9-15 years, you try this every 5-10 to keep the sward fresh and bulky? Would it work out any cheaper? Give better/worse results? Theres some of our silage ground and it's not been re-seeded in nigh on 30 years, could definitely do with a reseed, costly business though..

When you start reseeding you wil never start. Especiall if you stick at it for 2-3 years. It is not that expensive if you have your own sprayer and roller.

Remember to be fair to grass it will grow anywhere given fairly right conditions. If there is any contractor with an indepwndant disc harrow/or sticher near you you are away in a hack. If you have black soil any power harrow will do. Forget about ploughing as it adds too much cost.
Spray off, graze disc and seed or stich, roll, roll and rool again.

The advantage of a independant disc is that you can pun in a bit of barley or Oats if PH is too low. So you get a big bulky crop of fairly good silage you can chain harrow it in.. Remember the post emergence spray and fertlizer and granlime ( as it will decay the old burnt off sward fast)

Costs 40/acre for discing(I am being generous) grass seed 60-100/acre granlime 7-14/acre, Fertlizer 20-75/acre depending on if you are usinfg slurry or bag fertlizer.

Now fertlizer and ist bag of granlime should not count as you will be doing tha any way. I think that most reseeding with min till costs about 130-200/acre depending if you use slurry or not.

bob charles

I consider it crazy to go setting grass seeds yet, would wait at least a couple of weeks until things warm up, remember a good start is half the battle.

barryoc1

Sounds good. Hope it works for you. If it does i might try a bit of this myself.

hugo29

bob charles wrote: »

lads any chance you can send me on where you are getting this cheap grass seed that you are going using considering most of what you will spread with never come to anything. a poor reseed is one of the most expensive mistakes you can make. The competition from the old grasses will just be too much. Much better off get someone to direct drill the pasture and use a few ltrs of roundup. You can get level grass fields reseeded for €50 an acre machinery costs that would also include the spraying, add on some lime, seed and fert and thats what I would consider a perfect job done well worth of money.

Saving a few quid over what will probably be a ten year investment is just cutting of your nose to spite your face

im with bob, cut it bare as you can,spray it with round up, few runs of chain harrow, direct drill seed and roll and ferilize, or else plough anything else is a waste of money

redzerologhlen

hugo29 wrote: »

im with bob, cut it bare as you can,spray it with round up, few runs of chain harrow, direct drill seed and roll and ferilize, or else plough anything else is a waste of money

Have no experience of direct drilling but I can tell you that nobody in North Clare will plough a field to reseed it because you would be picking stones for the rest of your days. Spray, Graze, Disc, Chain, Seed, roll. Works perfect.

locky76

Ah jaysus lads, ye're ripping me to shreds:-(
I suppose at best it'll be revenue neutral (hopefully)...
Remind me to stick the pics up in 6 weeks time!

lalababa

how are you getting on with the reseed locky76?

lakill Farm

So Reilig,

what tools do I need?

and what supplies per acre?

what type of grass seed do I need?

If I got the tools together id have a go at this next year.

reilig wrote: »

The practice thjat the op is talking about is overseeding as opposed to killing off the old grass and sowing new grass into it. Overseeding is tried and tested all over the world. It's a simple practice. Anyone who outwintered cattle like we did years ago may remember how the poached ground was recovered - you sawed down a big blackthorn bush, pulled it over the poached ground to level it out and then went along with your bucket and spread it over the ground.

Bob, Delaval and Pudsey are right to a point. If it fails, it's an expensive mistake. There are 3 reasons why it would fail:
1. It doesn't get enough moisture.
2. It doesn't get to a temperature for it to germinate
3. It is smothered by the old grass.

We don't ever have a problem with moisture in these parts and have never had an overseed or a reseed fail for lack of moisture because there's rarely a week that goes by that you won't have moisture. If you have very dry land or are in a warmer climate than here, you will have to watch this.

Don't attempt an overseed until may. That's my based on my own experience. Even better again is to do an overseed in August when soil temperatures are still high, but the old grass has slowed down in growth.

You have to graze an overseed. Best way to do it is with lambs as they will do the least amount of damage.

Spreading slurry is risky, but it is a good contributor to growth. Slurry has to be very thin so that it does not form a crust over the seeds which smothers them. Best of all is pig slurry.

Plenty of videos on youtube about it:

I have no doubt that direct drilling is probably the best method, but contractors around here charge more than the quoted €50 per acre. They come at times best suited to them, and they want a minimum of 20 acres at a time to do when they have to travel a distance.

For that reason, careful planning, timing and management means that I can get the job done correctly with a chain harrow and I have never had an issue with seed failure. I can use machines that are on the farm already and can do a couple of acres at a time - when I want to do them!

Muckit

Muckit wrote: »

Good man. I hope it goes well for you. Now go get the camera and take a pic! And take another one in 6weeks time! Then post them up here!

How as things looking now with it Locky?

locky76

Hey folks,
Poor response to my "cheap" reseed...
I had the field eaten bare when I tilled it however the weather was cold and stayed cold after i put out the seed which led to a poor germination (should have listened to you Bob).
I then put in handy 300kg heifers after about three weeks to eat it down and on the third day the heavens opened and they tracked badly enough...
It's due another grazing soon so I'll have a better idea after that.
I'll keep ye posted!
Although having walked it this evening it did freshen up the field and in a "normal" year where you get proper germination I would imagine it is the way to go, I wouldn't try to graze it as tight on the first go and maybe top it instead after they had a few days grazing, I suppose I'm bryuised but not beaten...

locky76 wrote: »

Well folks, the cheap reseed went ahead today. I harrowed the ground North-South slowly and East-West quickly, I then spread a bag of gran lime to the acre, I then spread 1 bag of grass seed to the acre with the co-op seed barrow. It's after raining this evening so I won't roll it (afraid of seeds sticking to the roller), it'll get 1,500 gallons of watery slurry tomorrow afternoon.
Should I roll if I get a fine half day?
I'll spread the pasture sward in a fortnight and graze it a fortnight later with 250kg heifers...

hugo29

If its any consolation locky I did full reseed 2 years ago, between bad weather, havin to graze due to grass shortage etc its still not right, reseeding in this part is totally dependant on a bit of luck with the weather,

agriman27

Well lads interesting thread. Just wondering do many lads use an einbock type harrow for this job. I almost bought one this spring but the weather put a damp on the idea. I think they would be a good yolk to scratch and rough up ground. I think they apply even pressure and don't miss any bits.

maxxuumman

agriman27 wrote: »

Well lads interesting thread. Just wondering do many lads use an einbock type harrow for this job. I almost bought one this spring but the weather put a damp on the idea. I think they would be a good yolk to scratch and rough up ground. I think they apply even pressure and don't miss any bits.

Bought a S/h one 6 weeks ago from the North. I was hoping to get the air seeder on it but too saucy. So the one I got has the broadcast seeder. With the weather only got to use it for the first time last week.Very pleased with it's ability to level poached and tracked areas. The tines are well able to move soil around. Too windy to try a full reseed with the broadcast seeder. But I am going to try an overseed (hopefully tomorrow), as an experiment to see how it, and that process goes. From my first few goes with it, i would say it will be good in a full reseed situation swell, but it's early days yet

Sam Kade

agriman27 wrote: »

Well lads interesting thread. Just wondering do many lads use an einbock type harrow for this job. I almost bought one this spring but the weather put a damp on the idea. I think they would be a good yolk to scratch and rough up ground. I think they apply even pressure and don't miss any bits.

I stay away from them gimmicks, vicon spreader and harrow will do the job every bit as good.

Locky do you ever read your pm's?

locky76

Sam Kade wrote: »

Locky do you ever read your pm's?

toddler & baby with strep throat are currently curtailing my on line time;)

hugo29

sick kids do tend to do that allright, hope they get better soon, nothing worse than seeing them sick

yellow50HX

Sam Kade wrote: »

I stay away from them gimmicks, vicon spreader and harrow will do the job every bit as good.

Locky do you ever read your pm's?

as long as its not too windy i find.

agriman27

Sam Kade wrote: »

I stay away from them gimmicks, vicon spreader and harrow will do the job every bit as good.

Locky do you ever read your pm's?

I don't think the einbock type harrows are gimmicks, they do look like a light machine but having seen them working they are far far more effective than prehistoric chain harrows.

razor8

locky76 wrote: »

toddler & baby with strep throat are currently curtailing my on line time;)

did your reseed pull through?

Damo810

How did it pan out Locky? Anyone else try this? i seen Reggie posted a picture of the einbock, would hope to reseed the whole farm over the next few years after sorting out some drainage, this would be a handy way to go about doing it yourself.

grass

Anyone use the moore drill to plant grass seed?

moy83

grass wrote: »

Anyone use the moore drill to plant grass seed?

Bob charles ( he doesnt seem to be around latey ) was using one and he had pictures up somewhere . I havent used one but I like them

restive

I used the moore drill directly after baling a field. It worked very well, but you will have to wait until the following year to see the results.

simx

grass wrote: »

Anyone use the moore drill to plant grass seed?

Used it last year, maybe it was dry weather but was a total disaster, has to be done again

Lambofdave

simx wrote: »

Used it last year, maybe it was dry weather but was a total disaster, has to be done again

Two things that are a must with the Moore is moisture and slug pellets .

nhg

We did a full reseed of aprox 16 acres, 11 acres mid september & other 5 end september, i assume it now needs post-emergence spray prior to pasture sward & grazing - which spray do you recommend (will do it ourselves as we have a sprayer on the quad)

Farmer Pudsey

nhg wrote: »

We did a full reseed of aprox 16 acres, 11 acres mid september & other 5 end september, i assume it now needs post-emergence spray prior to pasture sward & grazing - which spray do you recommend (will do it ourselves as we have a sprayer on the quad)

IMO it is too late for any of the clover safe post emergence sprays. If saving clover is not a priority MCPA is about the most suitable. You will be a long time spraying with a quad sprayer, have one I am not mad about it for field spraying it is ideal for spraying hedges, dykes, ditches and spot spraying.

conor t

nhg wrote: »

We did a full reseed of aprox 16 acres, 11 acres mid september & other 5 end september, i assume it now needs post-emergence spray prior to pasture sward & grazing - which spray do you recommend (will do it ourselves as we have a sprayer on the quad)

It should usually be sprayed when grass has 3-4 true leaves depending on product

Zr105

nhg wrote: »

We did a full reseed of aprox 16 acres, 11 acres mid september & other 5 end september, i assume it now needs post-emergence spray prior to pasture sward & grazing - which spray do you recommend (will do it ourselves as we have a sprayer on the quad)

Sprayed the reseed we did last autumn about 3-4weeks after sowing with pastor, did a powerful job on it as it was disappointingly dirty with weeds, not a sight of anything now thankfully.

16acres is a fair ould whack to spray with a quad tho... Id be doing well enough to get that done in an hour with sprayer on the tractor as it'd be fill and a half...

remember with most of the sprays for grassland a high water rate is recommended (pastor is something like 3-400lt/ha) so it'll be a lot of trips to fill up a quad sprayer...