Future Classics

af_thefragile

What cars do you think are set to become future classics?
Cars which have hit or will soon hit their depreciation low point and in the furutre will only increase in value?

I'ld say the 1st and 2nd generation Subaru Impreza WRX STI is set to become a future classic like the Ford Sierra Cosworth and other such rally bred cars have.
They're fast, very desirable, rare and have plenty of rally heritage to go by. If you can find a clean one which hasn't been crashed or tinkered around by boy racers, it'll be an excellent investment.

So what else do you think would be worth considering as potential investments??

corktina

I think both my cars are future classics.

Mondeo ST200....6500 built
Focus ST170...under 13000 registered in the UK originally, about 11000 now left, don't know about RoW

djimi

Id like to think that the DC2 Integra will one day be considered to be a classic. Thats assuming enough of them are left unmolested and unabused to make it that long of course...!

dgt

af_thefragile wrote: »

What cars do you think are set to become future classics?

Lots of cars fall into this bracket but alas I can't list them all...

One springs to mind: These are getting rare...

challengemaster

e46 M3 CSL

Matt Simis

challengemaster wrote: »

e46 M3 CSL

Yes, classic cars generally need to be from a limited production run (less than 2000) over a limited period.

Above 2000 under 20,000 is a "special interest vehicle", not a classic, which I think most of the above aside from the CSL fit into.

The 1M might be a classic someday, while virtually no M5 (from E34 up) will be. Infact the E39 and E60 M5s sold too many to even be counted as special interest.
The Alfa 166 (unless that one is some limited special edition?) could never be a classic as it was sold for far too long and sold near 100k units.

ShadowHearth

Mazda mx5 would become quite a lovely "modern classic".

dgt

Matt Simis wrote: »

The Alfa 166 (unless that one is some limited special edition?) could never be a classic as it was sold for far too long and sold near 100k units.

Got to know where you got that figure from

I should have stated the 3.2 GTA

Voodoomelon

Matt Simis wrote: »

The 1M might be a classic someday, while virtually no M5 (from E34 up) will be. Infact the E39 and E60 M5s sold too many to even be counted as special interest.
The Alfa 166 (unless that one is some limited special edition?) could never be a classic as it was sold for far too long and sold near 100k units.

This in a nutshell. As much as many of us would like to think our cars will someday become a classic, anything with large production number doesn't stand a chance. Sure, some cars are already "cultural" classics, but for something to be worth proper classic money, there needs to be frig all of them made.

af_thefragile

Matt Simis wrote: »

Yes, classic cars generally need to be from a limited production run (less than 2000) over a limited period.

Above 2000 under 20,000 is a "special interest vehicle", not a classic, which I think most of the above aside from the CSL fit into.

The 1M might be a classic someday, while virtually no M5 (from E34 up) will be. Infact the E39 and E60 M5s sold too many to even be counted as special interest.
The Alfa 166 (unless that one is some limited special edition?) could never be a classic as it was sold for far too long and sold near 100k units.

Exactly.

If a car is mass produced and doesn't have something "special" about them then it'll just end up as junk in a breakers yard than in a garage as a classic.

Something like a M3 is a brilliant car to drive but there are lots of them and it doesn't have anything much special about it. As they do E46/E90 M3s will continue depreciating just like E36 M3s have. But a M3 CSL is a rare and special car so its definitely a good contender for a future classic. The only thing is they're still very expensive cars!

A Lotus Elise is definitely a future classic. The 1st and 2nd generation ones are still depreciating slowly but its only a matter of time before their prices are going to start climbing back up as they're extremely rare and extremely desirable cars!

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Mazda mx5 would become quite a lovely "modern classic".

Its desirable - yes.
Its special - yes.
Its rare/exclusive - No.

That's the problem with the mx5. Too many of them around to become a classic until maybe sometime in the distant future only a few good examples are left which can then be considered as classics.

NIMAN

VW Corrado.

tossy

B5 RS4 the only modern Rs car that will become a classic IMO.

MK4 R32

Integra type R.

S2000

MX5

Eric Cartman

saying it has to be a limited production run to be a true classic is a bit nonsense really, look at the mk1 golf , the original mini, old mustangs and cadillac coupes , all made in big runs , but still classics.

Matt Simis

Eric Cartman wrote: »

saying it has to be a limited production run to be a true classic is a bit nonsense really, look at the mk1 golf , the original mini, old mustangs and cadillac coupes , all made in big runs , but still classics.

Of course there are exceptions but none of them are!
Within their domestic markets, today, none of those cars are actual big $$ classics (well, cadillac coupe is a bit vague and certain spec original ltd. Mustangs are expensive, but "Mk1 Mustangs" are readily available). Mk1 Golfs are sold here for under 5k.. a real classic car wouldnt be a matter of going to Donedeal and finding a selection forsale:
http://cars.donedeal.ie/find/vintagecars/for-sale/Ireland/golf%20mk1
http://cars.donedeal.ie/find/vintagecars/for-sale/Ireland/mustang?filter%28max_mileage%29=Max+KM&filter%28max_price%29=Max+Price&filter%28max_year%29=Max+Year&filter%28min_mileage%29=Min+KM&filter%28min_price%29=Min+Price&filter%28min_year%29=Min+Year&source=all
http://cars.donedeal.ie/find/vintagecars/for-sale/Ireland/mini?filter%28max_mileage%29=Max+KM&filter%28max_price%29=Max+Price&filter%28max_year%29=Max+Year&filter%28min_mileage%29=Min+KM&filter%28min_price%29=Min+Price&filter%28min_year%29=Min+Year&source=all
The reason they arent classics is production numbers. They are as VoodooMelon put, "cultural classics" but not actual car collector classics.

dgt wrote: »

Got to know where you got that figure from

I should have stated the 3.2 GTA

Wikipedia, alluded to "under 100k" as opposed under 50k or something.
Regardless, it was available and in mass production for years upon years.

The VW Phaeton which people consider rare (and commercially unpopular) also is tipping or has tipped 100k by now. It sold near 20k in 2007, Germany alone.

baldshin

How about the 1.4 mk2 mg zs, only made for the Irish market, can't have been a huge amount made as I think they were only in production for under a year?(open to correction)

af_thefragile

Eric Cartman wrote: »

saying it has to be a limited production run to be a true classic is a bit nonsense really, look at the mk1 golf , the original mini, old mustangs and cadillac coupes , all made in big runs , but still classics.

They're rare now though which is why they're considered classics.
Also even Mini coopers are more desirable than the standard Minis, A mustang fastback or a shelby mustang is worth more than a standard mustang.

In general the more rare a good car is, the more desirable a classic it'll be and the more it'll be worth. A series 1 Jag E-Type roadster can easily be worth upwards of 100K while a Series 3 onwards e-type coupes go for less than half the price. It has to do with the looks of the Series 1 e-type compared to the Series 3 onwards cars but they also cost so much because a Series 1 e-type roadsters are extreme rare to find today.

ShadowHearth

af_thefragile wrote: »

They're rare now though which is why they're considered classics.
Also even Mini coopers are more desirable than the standard Minis, A mustang fastback or a shelby mustang is worth more than a standard mustang.

In general the more rare a good car is, the more desirable a classic it'll be and the more it'll be worth. A series 1 Jag E-Type roadster can easily be worth upwards of 100K while a Series 3 onwards e-type coupes go for less than half the price. It has to do with the looks of the Series 1 e-type compared to the Series 3 onwards cars but they also cost so much because a Series 1 e-type roadsters are extreme rare to find today.

You put an old subaru as a classic, but then you scrap stuff like Mx5 or other cars, because those are not rare enough and cant be classics... does not compute!

From this post I understand that the main criteria is "classic value" money wises, not a car that is a classic. A bit miss leading thread.

af_thefragile

ShadowHearth wrote: »

You put an old subaru as a classic, but then you scrap stuff like Mx5 or other cars, because those are not rare enough and cant be classics... does not compute!

Not any subaru though. I'ld say most Subaru WRX will end up in a scrap heap.
Its only the WRX STi models that'll end up as classics. And only the series 1 and 2 ones because they were the ones that had the rally heritage. The Series 3 Impreza didn't live upto most people's expectations and by then Subaru were out of rallying as well.

On another note I'ld say the Toyota GT86 will become a classic at some stage as well. Although it'll depreciate like all other cars until its in production and there are lots around, I can really see it become a proper classic few decades down the line. It has everything to become a classic. Its a collaboration between two of the best car makers in Japan. It became an instant hit the moment it was launched. Its something different and unique in that its a proper front-mid engined RWD coupe which wasn't built for comfort or safety, neither was it built to break nurburgring lap records but was built purely for fun making it a really desirable car. I can really see it becoming the Golf GTi of this decade.

On a similar note the Toyota Supra seems to be becoming a classic quickly as well. They seem to be becoming more and more expensive and rare as clean untinkered cars are becoming few and far between and its possibly the most desirable tuner car being the start of Fast and the Furious and all.

From this post I understand that the main criteria is "classic value" money wises, not a car that is a classic. A bit miss leading thread.

In a way you are right. As I mentioned in the first post a classic is one whose price is only going to go up in the future.
The criteria for a future classic is a car which has hit its depreciation low point (or will hit it soon) and will only appreciate in the future in its value.

Viper_JB

I'd say as the years go on and they start getting rare RX8's will eventually be classic - unique car, unique engine and good to look at.

MetzgerMeister

Viper_JB wrote: »

I'd say as the years go on and they start getting rare RX8's will eventually be classic - unique car, unique engine and good to look at.

I wonder will Mazda have a permanent solution for compression issues by the time they become a classic?

:pac:

Viper_JB

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

I wonder will Mazda have a permanent solution for compression issues by the time they become a classic?

:pac:

lol Stop producing the cars (already done) and just continue to churn out engines...

af_thefragile

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

I wonder will Mazda have a permanent solution for compression issues by the time they become a classic?

:pac:

Can't you rebuild a RX8 engine like you can a conventional engine?

Fabritzo

BMW Z8

Eric Cartman

Fabritzo wrote: »

BMW Z8

the Z1 maybe, doubtful of the Z8

Alanstrainor

I'd say the e46 is a classic shape, it still looks great today, and I'd say it will be pretty much timeless. I don't even think it has to be a CSL M3 to be something special.

Johnny Drama_11

BMW e30

thecomedian

Probably too many made but a BMW ZM Coupe. It looks a bit different and I don't see that many of them.

Ferris

af_thefragile wrote: »

Can't you rebuild a RX8 engine like you can a conventional engine?

Plenty of guys rebuild them if the housings aren't too damaged. They're simpler to rebuild than a piston engine and there are a number of specialists doing it.

Although I think rx7s would be a better bet for a classic due to their performance. Actually any of the jap rwd coupes that haven't been micked or drifted will be future classics imo.

Also e30's are screaming up at the moment. Wouldn't mind a 325i.

Skyline GTR's and any merc with a large engine that goes over 30yrs (SL500?) also.

Voodoomelon

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the Z1 maybe, doubtful of the Z8

Z8 definitely a classic. It already is in money terms, they'll only become rarer.

5500

Honda NSX, hard enough to find one as it is, most likely any of the GTR skylines too. Dare I say AE86 Corollas? I'd say there will always be a cult following for them

Bigus

corktina wrote: »

I think both my cars are future classics.

Mondeo ST200....6500 built
Focus ST170...under 13000 registered in the UK originally, about 11000 now left, don't know about RoW

Would you recommend an ST 170 ?

I like mk 1 focus' sssss and was thinking of adding one of these to the fleet they seem good value at the moment here .

af_thefragile

Ferris wrote: »

Although I think rx7s would be a better bet for a classic due to their performance. Actually any of the jap rwd coupes that haven't been micked or drifted will be future classics imo.

I'ld say rx7s are already on their way to becoming classics. Good ones seem to easily go above 5 grand, some even 10 grand...

Supergurrier

Ferris

af_thefragile wrote: »

I'ld say rx7s are already on their way to becoming classics. Good ones seem to easily go above 5 grand, some even 10 grand...

I'd agree, in saying that there are lads over on irish rotarys trying to sell sound examples (original examples, rebuilt engines etc.) and not getting much interest so deals could be had. A lot of them seem to be selling to the UK and germany actually.

One of these is defo a fun investment. Low tax and big power, albeit with a driking problem. I'm nearly talking myself into one here.

bmwguy

I bought a 406 coupe recently and joined the owners club website, most of those guys are convinced it is a classic in the making. Only 10,000 registered in the UK according to them. I wouldnt be so sure though, they're trading at less than a grand for decent ones at the moment. It is very good looking though

af_thefragile

^When I bought my Ford Puma, most people on the owners club website were convinced its a future classic. Now I don't really think so. Its a fun car but it never became special.

bmwguy

af_thefragile wrote: »

^When I bought my Ford Puma, most people on the owners club website were convinced its a future classic. Now I don't really think so. Its a fun car but it never became special.

Yeah they really died away didnt they? I havent seen one in a while, I used to like them. A girl I was seeing for a while had one. That said, and no offence, it was a bit of a girly car, and girly cars dont make classics. Cultural icons such as minis, beetles would be the closest but they become forgettable quickly. Another of my old cars. e39 sport might fit the bill in the future, but they were very popular they sold a lot

Cee-Jay-Cee

djimi wrote: »

Id like to think that the DC2 Integra will one day be considered to be a classic. Thats assuming enough of them are left unmolested and unabused to make it that long of course...!

I agree but the problem is the vast majority of them have been hammered by boy racers. I owned 3 of them, I was the first owner of all three when they were imported here and kept them in brilliant condition. The first one I seriously regretted selling as it was one if the very best ever, the other two not so much. If I could find a low mileage 98spec in white with red recaros I'd keep it forever.

af_thefragile

bmwguy wrote: »

Yeah they really died away didnt they? I havent seen one in a while, I used to like them. A girl I was seeing for a while had one. That said, and no offence, it was a bit of a girly car, and girly cars dont make classics. Cultural icons such as minis, beetles would be the closest but they become forgettable quickly. Another of my old cars. e39 sport might fit the bill in the future, but they were very popular they sold a lot

I'll agree its a girly car but so are the New Mini, MX5, Beetle, BMW Z3 etc.
I don't get why girls seem to like small sporty cars and then they quickly become "girly cars".

Anyway, even the Puma Racing which is quite aggressive looking didn't make a big impression. Now I'm looking to replace the Mini with something more "iconic" so to speak. I'm mostly fixed on getting an old Mini which I can work on and improve over time to make it a proper fun little car but it may be a bit small for my needs. The Subaru Impreza is another choice as its a saloon with a big boot so much more practical but I'll really like the STi version and they're a bit pricey. RX-8s are another good option but they've got high motor tax and its tricky to find one in a decent nick for the price range I'm looking at.
I'ld say right now I'm most inclined towards the Mini. Seem to be selling around the €2-4k mark which is about what my budget is and I'm really toying with the idea of working on it to fix and uprate the suspension, breaks etc. to make it a proper fun car to drive!

Nash Bridges

bmwguy wrote: »

I bought a 406 coupe recently and joined the owners club website, most of those guys are convinced it is a classic in the making. Only 10,000 registered in the UK according to them. I wouldnt be so sure though, they're trading at less than a grand for decent ones at the moment. It is very good looking though

+1. This is what I thought of too for a car that is cheap to buy and likely to appreciate. Great looking car.

skyhighflyer

Have to echo other posters, it's all about the limited production runs. Classic cars are no exception to the law of supply and demand: the greater the supply, the lower the price.

Sure, a mint Impreza might be of interest to a collector in 30 years time, but they'll never fetch big money, there's too many of them. A Lancia Inegrale has the same rally pedigree and is a lot rarer but they still don't go for massive money. Likewise the Escort Cosworth was made in far smaller numbers.

However, if I had lots of liquid cash I'd happily buy an Alfa 8C. Safer than money in the bank and a lot better as an investment: only 500 were made.

Also, prices of Ferrari F355s have been climbing because AFAIK they made less of them than either the 360 or 430.

M3 CSL would also be a good shout. I'd liken it to the 190 Evolution II: prices are stratospheric for those. Not amazingly fast, but have great history and are rare.

renofan

As I'll never afford an F40 an F355 is on my list of "to own" but as the last poster says they are steadily increasing the last few years.

I've an original Irish reg E30 which I'm hoping becomes worth a lot so I can sell it to fund the F355

Matt Simis

bmwguy wrote: »

I bought a 406 coupe recently and joined the owners club website, most of those guys are convinced it is a classic in the making. Only 10,000 registered in the UK according to them. I wouldnt be so sure though, they're trading at less than a grand for decent ones at the moment. It is very good looking though

10k in the UK alone is loads and loads.
Given the original version is LHD, the RHD (con)versions are already worth less and will continue to be worth less. 10k in UK would suggest about 50-100k globally. So unless they all explode bar a handful, there is zero chance of them becoming a classic, though likely will always remain a nice car of the age, almost in the vein of the Mk1 Golf etc.

JohnBoy26

How about a Renault Avantime? They are certainly rare enough even these days.

dgt

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

How about a Renault Avantime? They are certainly rare enough even these days. http://archive.cardesignnews.com/events/geneva2000/gallery/images/renault-avantime525.jpg

2 out of 8557 in that photo :pac:

Zcott

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

How about a Renault Avantime? They are certainly rare enough even these days.

Next you'll be adding the Vel Satis to the list...and it's not a classic at all.

ottostreet

What about the Mitsubishi FTO?

About 20000 in total built I think is the figure. My particular model is a 'Version R' of which only 350 were built.

While I love the car, and think it's great, I don't think its really a 'classic' but I'd love to be convinced otherwise.

JohnBoy26

Zcott wrote: »

Next you'll be adding the Vel Satis to the list...and it's not a classic at all.

I didn't mention a thing about a Vel Statis nor did I have any intention to either.

The thread is about what will become future classics not what are classics already so it's irrelevant if a Vel Statis is "not a classic at all" at the moment.

Wibbs

CJC999 wrote: »

I agree but the problem is the vast majority of them have been hammered by boy racers.

That's the biggest problem with a lot of the Japanese stuff C. That said it may turn out to be an advantage too, as vanishingly few will remain unmolested and deboyracerfying them would cost big money in a lot of cases.

I do see the point between true hyper rare classics and everyday "cultural" classics. I think they're generally two different markets. A McLaren F1 is always gonna be a classic, but for a very rarified ownership*. For most of the rest of us the classic label is more based in reality. Few would suggest an early MGB isn't a classic, yet they made shedloads of them. E Types, even the early flat floor jobs weren't exactly one off special editions either.

The other advantage of looking at Scoobies, Type R's, certain Beemers etc for future classic status is parts availability. You're fairly sorted with those. That said interior trim and the like will become increasingly hard to find through official channels.

Cars of today may be a harder one long term. Cars have become a lot more complex and with complexity comes issues with longterm longevity. That era that sat between needing to oil your trunions and everything requiring a laptop to talk to your car will likely last a long time if looked after. In 50 years time there may well be more cars left with 1995 regs than cars with 2015 regs.

I'd echo the Honda NSX. Indeed it was the car that the McLaren team used as a baseline guide when designing the F1. Though I'd aim for the NSX type R in particular. A lot rarer(IIRC the UK only got two official ones) and a far better car dynamically.








*I recently read of Rowan Atkinson's one and the costs involved of running it as a daily car. Mad crazy money. 10 grand service charge, that can run to 40 grand depending on parts. Even the petrol tank wears out. The prop shafts only last 10,000 miles IIRC. :eek: Now fair bloody play to Rowan he clearly loves the car and actually drives the yoke as an "ordinary" car, commuting, driving it on holliers and all that, but he'd be a rare chap and has the funds to do so.

discombobulate

The Alfa Romeo Brera S only had a run of 500 units in the UK. The standard Brera's around 20,000.

Matt Simis

discombobulate wrote: »

The Alfa Romeo Brera S only had a run of 500 units in the UK. The standard Brera's around 20,000.

The Brera S, while a nice idea, it just one step above a UK dealer special, which likely will not be recalled in the future as a real/legit model. It would also require the Brera base model itself to become some sort of cultural classic or sought after car, which its not and unlikely ever will be. Note I actually really like Brera's.