BMW 520d timing chain rattle

Loch Garman Gael

Hi Guys
I own a 08 520d LCI heard a slight noise while engine idling last week. Got it checked out yesterday by a BMW mechanic just listening to it at his own place. Less than a minute later he's diagnosed it as a timing chain problem. Needs replacing. To be honest had been fearing this might happen this car having been aware of these horror stories unfortunately only after I bought the car !!
Anyhow he tells me if mine has a full BMW service history there's a good chance of BMW covering some of the work if not all of it. He has no idea of the cost so I'm getting it looked Ito next week b letting the dealer know & looking for a goodwill cover. Mine is an ex UK car with a full BMW service history so I'm hoping against hope I might get lucky.

This is the second major isse with my car after Turbo failed last July. Got the turbo re-conditioned & re-fitted so cost about €1000 all in for everything.

On the way down yesterday I got a warning on car to say rear indicator had failed. Unfortunately this is not a simple bulb replacement it's an LED light the mechanic think circuit board must be banjaxed basically so I'm findig out I need to replace the whole back unit.

I will post again to let ye know how I got on with BMW about timing chain.

Bottom line here is I will never buy BMW again my fingers have been well & truly burnt. I love the car & the power etc but unless your buying one that's going to have a BMW warranty for the time you will have te motor stay well away.!!

mickdw

Yes it probably wise to buy used BMW through tbe dealers to get the 2 year warranty. Their prices are nuts but if you could do a reasonable deal, that warranty has to be worth a significant amount.
Certainly if I was looking at bi turbo diesels or m cars, I wouldnt touch them without this warranty.

biko

Moved out from an old thread as it's a separate incident and had no new info on the old case.

weekaizer

Sorry to hear about this op, I just bought a 08 320d with the same engine, thankfully have a 1 year warranty so il probably sell it when the year is up!.
Let us know how it all works out

bazz26

This problem is becoming all too common now. BMW should be forced to issue a recall on these engines. Even though they will contribute towards goodwill it is sickening that the owner still ends up paying a BMW dealer money towards fixing a design fault.

Bigus

I think I'd be keeping quiet about the turbo , if it wasn't done by BMW , good luck.

Victor Meldrew

mickdw wrote: »

Yes it probably wise to buy used BMW through tbe dealers to get the 2 year warranty. Their prices are nuts but if you could do a reasonable deal, that warranty has to be worth a significant amount.
Certainly if I was looking at bi turbo diesels or m cars, I wouldn't touch them without this warranty.

What about the Warranty you can buy from BMW ? Any feedback ?

Nissan doctor

We had an 08 520d in the garage the other week with the chain rattling badly. We've serviced it for the last year and a half or so.

The customer had the BMW 2 year warranty on the car(bought second hand) so it went up to Joe Duffy's. The first thing they did was blame us for using the wrong oil. A visit from me and the rep from our oil supplier with the BMW certificate of approval for the oil we use later and they repaired the car under warranty without any more question.

pred racer

Nissan doctor wrote: »

We had an 08 520d in the garage the other week with the chain rattling badly. We've serviced it for the last year and a half or so.

The customer had the BMW 2 year warranty on the car(bought second hand) so it went up to Joe Duffy's. The first thing they did was blame us for using the wrong oil. A visit from me and the rep from our oil supplier with the BMW certificate of approval for the oil we use later and they repaired the car under warranty without any more question.

I'd say that felt good:)

Nissan doctor

pred racer wrote: »

I'd say that felt good:)

A bit, but the lads in Duffy's were sound, seemly it was the default response from BMW Ireland when the car has no service history with them.

I think the point is that BMW do anything to get out of covering warranty claims, even ones they know to be a manufacturing fault, but if you have all bases covered then they will repair it.

Believe it or not, Duffy's even had the car dropped back to our place so the customer could collect it from us.

delly

My brother brings in many 520's from the UK to sell here. He is properly registered with a TAM number etc., but only does it on a part time basis. I have told him about the amount of threads on the timing chain issue, but with about 40 brought in over the last 3 years he has never had an issue.....until about 6 months ago.

He noticed a change in the normal noise with a car on the way back to Holyhead and when back in Dublin had his own indie mechanic listen to it who knows BMW's, but didn't think anything was wrong. Since he knows the one model inside and out he was still sure of a problem. He then took it to a Dublin dealer who eventually came back to say that it looked like the very early stages of the timing chain issue.

He's never sold a known dud car, so wasn't going to start now. It being an ex-fleet car with full BMW service history, he hoped to get goodwill etc., but the Dublin dealer would only meet the cost halfway, still leaving a charge around €2.5k. He then went to a BMW dealer up north who only charged him £500 for the replacement. They even gave him a new 520d for a week while the job was getting done.

So OP, if you get no joy from your local dealer, up north may be a better option.

Victor Meldrew

Nissan doctor wrote: »

A bit, but the lads in Duffy's were sound, seemly it was the default response from BMW Ireland when the car has no service history with them.

I think the point is that BMW do anything to get out of covering warranty claims, even ones they know to be a manufacturing fault, but if you have all bases covered then they will repair it.

Believe it or not, Duffy's even had the car dropped back to our place so the customer could collect it from us.

Was it all covered under the warranty? I'd presume that as the warranty is an insurance product, that BMW would not mind claims, as we (the punters) pay for the warranty, and will pay for increases in warranty as well.

If I were BMW, keeping the warranty working is the only way they'll keep us buying their cars.

Be it second hand or new, buyers will care big time here.

Nissan doctor

Victor Meldrew wrote: »

Was it all covered under the warranty? I'd presume that as the warranty is an insurance product, that BMW would not mind claims, as we (the punters) pay for the warranty, and will pay for increases in warranty as well.

If I were BMW, keeping the warranty working is the only way they'll keep us buying their cars.

Be it second hand or new, buyers will care big time here.

Yes they covered the whole repair.

deandean

I estimate that 2 out of 3 bmws sold between 2007 and 2010 have that n57 engine. Sadly I think this timing chain issue is going to put a knife through the resale value of a lot of used bmws.

Yes again I have to point at least some of the finger of blame At their ridiculously long service intervals, IMO it is completely reckless of them to advocate service intervals of 30,000 km for a turbo diesel engine?

peter barrins

This post has been deleted.

MidlandsM

I never bother buying them for resale.....those 520d's are'nt worth the hassle, that's why there's a lot more A4's being imported for resale these days.

An older 525d is a better car,bigger tax sure, but a proper 6 pot that'll go forever, and suits the size and weight of the car so much better.

Jimdagym

deandean wrote: »

I estimate that 2 out of 3 bmws sold between 2007 and 2010 have that n57 engine. Sadly I think this timing chain issue is going to put a knife through the resale value of a lot of used bmws.

Yes again I have to point at least some of the finger of blame At their ridiculously long service intervals, IMO it is completely reckless of them to advocate service intervals of 30,000 km for a turbo diesel engine?

How would having shorter service intervals help with the timing chain issue?

peter barrins

This post has been deleted.

dr.fuzzenstein

I think I remember from the old thread that the problem is not only the chain, but the sprocket on the crank shaft and since that can't be replaced, the crank will have to be replaced along with the chain. Because if you replace the chain only, you could well be lookign at the same issue a little while down the road.

bazz26

There are two problems with these engines afaik from what I have been reading:

First, the quality of the timing chain and tensioners on engines built between certain dates are of inferior quality. The second issue is that the crank shaft design is poor which the timing chain can rub against causing the chain to stretch or/and eventually snap.

The cheapest fix is to replace the timing chain and tensioners assuming no serious damage is done to the engine if the chain snaps. This is not a complete fix though as the crank shaft needs to be replaced also with a redesigned one so that it doesn't damage the new timing chain down the road. However this is very expensive and labour intensive as it involves removing and stripping the engine afaik.

I'd imagine most people would go with the cheaper option, get the car back on the road and sell it on sometime later before the same issue potentially happens again.

BTW the engine effected by this is the N47 engine which is the 143bhp and 177bhp.

deandean

Jimdagym wrote: »

How would having shorter service intervals help with the timing chain issue?

Better lubrication and cleaner oil.

Jimdagym

deandean wrote: »

Better lubrication and cleaner oil.

All the oil in the world isnt going to change the fact that the components are ****e. Sharp edges on the sprockets a big culprit AFAIR.

cadaliac

Jimdagym wrote: »

All the oil in the world isnt going to change the fact that the components are ****e. Sharp edges on the sprockets a big culprit AFAIR.

I think the 30k interval is sh1t too. Oil changes will help turbo lubrication and isn't there a filter to be changed after certain mileage relating to the turbo only? (I thought I read that they had to be changed frequently enough, but it could be to do with a different turbo)

Jimdagym

cadaliac wrote: »

I think the 30k interval is sh1t too. Oil changes will help turbo lubrication and isn't there a filter to be changed after certain mileage relating to the turbo only? (I thought I read that they had to be changed frequently enough, but it could be to do with a different turbo)

I'm not saying 30k intervals are good, I just don't see how shorter intervals would have any effect on the known chain issue.

deandean

Jimdagym wrote: »

I'm not saying 30k intervals are good, I just don't see how shorter intervals would have any effect on the known chain issue.

Look at it this way: some of those engines are failing at 50 to 60k according to reports. Other engines have 150+k and no rattles. Why the variation?
IMO: lubrication.
Worst case is an about town car rarely warmed up, oil contains acids and water, brutal when combined with long service interval.

Best case is a m'way cruiser regularly fully up to temperature and the owner gives the CBS the 2 fingers & sucks the oil out replaces it every 10k or so.
That's Dean's explanation as to the difference in chain longevity!

Also: chains don't 'stretch'. Chains 'wear'.

cadaliac

Jimdagym wrote: »

I'm not saying 30k intervals are good, I just don't see how shorter intervals would have any effect on the known chain issue.

Agreed, although I think the first comment about the long interval, more referred to the damage being done else where in the engine afaik.
I would agree with you in the sense that it "should" have nothing to do with the chain. I think if you serviced it every 10k it would still happen eventually.
It is a design fault though and I wouldn't touch those engines with a barge pole.
The other engine I wouldn't touch is the VAG 2.0 Diesel with the weak oil pump (140 bhp) - not sure of the years but from about 06 to 08 or later. I'm sure there is an engine code available if you search hard enough.

peter barrins

This post has been deleted.

macrubicon

Loch Garman Gael wrote: »

Hi Guys

On the way down yesterday I got a warning on car to say rear indicator had failed. Unfortunately this is not a simple bulb replacement it's an LED light the mechanic think circuit board must be banjaxed basically so I'm findig out I need to replace the whole back unit.

If it's any consolation I had this happen to my 09 - Rear fog light usually drivers side giving the warning ? If so it was a cheap enough fix at the dealers less than €100 for a new wiring loom and board. It could be something you could probably do yourself too - there are plenty of picture guides to the job once you have the parts.

Edit - just saw it's the indicator - could be the same issue. You can check the light cluster and see if there is any charring. If there is it's probably the same issue.

the culture of deference

peter barrins wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I had a 01 Rover 75 cdti for 6 years. M47 engine detuned.

No timing chain issues. Mileage ended up over 180,000 miles on original chain.

So it must be the new materials. I always thought BMW was supposed to be a premium car.

GavMan

the culture of deference wrote: »

I had a 01 Rover 75 cdti for 6 years. M47 engine detuned.

No timing chain issues. Mileage ended up over 180,000 miles on original chain.

So it must be the new materials. I always thought BMW was supposed to be a premium car.

affected engine is the N47, not M47

galwaytt

deandean wrote: »

Also: chains don't 'stretch'. Chains 'wear'.

Also - chains do stretch. A common method of chain assessment is measuring a fixed number of links. If the dimension is longer than that allowed in the spec, it most assuredly has 'stretched'. Which, of course, is 'wear' (cumulative on all the pins and side plates).

Either way, it's for scrap

peter barrins

This post has been deleted.

Loch Garman Gael

Just a quick update on my car. Remember only ever just a louder than normal idling noise which was diagnosed as timing chain in BMW garage,

My car is 08 with 128k miles. Full BMW history. Goodwill warranty was refused by BMW who said car had too many miles. No point crying over spilt milk so I just got on with getting prices etc

Found out about a garage in dub run by a Lithuanian lad who previously worked as a BMW mechanic in his native land. This guy came highly recommended to me. Really had a great knowledge & has done quite a few chains on E60's already

Unbelievably when he had my car stripped down he discovered that while the timing chains were at early stage of going wrong in my case it was the flywheel / clutch problem that was causing the problem & was in fact the more urgent. Last thing I needed to hear but cutting to the chase had to get it done. The mechanic didnt charge me a cent more for labour for the clutch flywheel job. €550 for clutch flywheel parts on line with an Irish company. BMW priced these parts for €1462.

Chain parts are cheap enough (crankshaft did not need replacing & was perfect although crankshaft seal was replaced). coming in at €300. There are 2 chains, one is an 'oil chain' both were replaced.

My total bill for chain, flywheel , clutch & oil service parts & labour was €1600. Now that's money I hadn't budgeted for & don't have lying around but had no choice but to get job done.

Anyone wanting details of mechanic etc just PM me I couldn't recommend him highly enough,

Fingers crossed I'm trouble free now for a long long time as I can't afford to change the car anyhow...

the culture of deference

Loch Garman Gael wrote: »

My car is 08 with 128k miles. Full BMW history. Goodwill warranty was refused by BMW who said car had too many miles. No point crying over spilt milk so I just got on with getting prices etc

That is disgraceful service by BMW. I would definitely follow this up with BMW international. Make them pay

FFS KIA have 7 yr warranty, renault are doing 5 year

Loch Garman Gael

the culture of deference wrote: »

That is disgraceful service by BMW. I would definitely follow this up with BMW international. Make them pay

FFS KIA have 7 yr warranty, renault are doing 5 year

I know mate they are washing their hands of it. Here's how te goodwill procedure works:
You bring car into local BMW dealer they do full diagnostics kit & check your car keys to verify mileage (2nd memory) if all ok they apply for goodwill warranty including full diagnostics report that gets sent to BMW head office in Germany where in my case it was a PFO...

I'm hearing that all German cars with this problem are being done by BMW no problem. It's a case of our dealers not standing up to the Krauts.....

the culture of deference

Loch Garman Gael wrote: »

J

My total bill for chain, flywheel , clutch & oil service parts & labour was €1600. Now that's money I hadn't budgeted for & don't have lying around but had no choice but to get job done..

How much would a BMW dealer have charged for the job? (just curious)

Loch Garman Gael

the culture of deference wrote: »

How much would a BMW dealer have charged for the job? (just curious)

Well BMW for clutch & flywheel parts only were €1642 !! So I'd imagine for all that work €6-7k

dr.fuzzenstein

the culture of deference wrote: »

That is disgraceful service by BMW. I would definitely follow this up with BMW international. Make them pay

FFS KIA have 7 yr warranty, renault are doing 5 year

Ah well, BMW seems to think that since they are No1, they don't have to try harder, keep trading on their reputation, just keep telling 'em to fcuk off, for every customer that's disgruntled there's 10 more out there, just take the money saved from R&D, QC and honoring customer complaints and sink it into marketing, enough people with more money than sense to be hoiked in.
In my own experience the Germans always make the same mistake:
Assume that you are the best, your products are the best, you don't have to take your competitors serious, because your German product is naturally superior and no one can possibly offer anything half as good, so people will buy your stuff, even if it costs twice as much.
Germany used to be market leader when it came to electronics, cameras, motorbikes, industrial machinery and many other things. They are not anymore.
As a German myself it is sad for me and it seems that pride always comes before the fall. And it's not even pride anymore, Germans are arrogant to the point of hubris. Believe me, I know.
Of course that's not so in Germany itself, in Germany you couldn't get away with that crap, but it's different dealing with a pack of foreigners who probably are too dumb to notice, at least that's what they think...

weekaizer

Can't believe, if its true, that BMW are changing these on German cars ATM! Why not change them on all their engines FFS. If BMW lose their reputation as a premium reliable brand around the world, who's going to want to pay for a car which always demands a comparitively high price to most cars of same age, mileage etc... It really is time owners demanded a recall on those engines.

Blazer

Loch Garman Gael wrote: »

Well BMW for clutch & flywheel parts only were €1642 !! So I'd imagine for all that work €6-7k

Timing chain is 6k alone from BMW dealer..if you're very lucky BMW here might cover the parts still leaving you with over 3k..
To get all for that done for 1.6k was excellent.

the culture of deference

weekaizer wrote: »

Can't believe, if its true, that BMW are changing these on German cars ATM! Why not change them on all their engines FFS. If BMW lose their reputation as a premium reliable brand around the world, who's going to want to pay for a car which always demands a comparitively high price to most cars of same age, mileage etc... It really is time owners demanded a recall on those engines.

What would happen if you drove the car to germany?

declan_8

Loch Garman Gael wrote: »

Just a quick update on my car. Remember only ever just a louder than normal idling noise which was diagnosed as timing chain in BMW garage,

My car is 08 with 128k miles. Full BMW history. Goodwill warranty was refused by BMW who said car had too many miles. No point crying over spilt milk so I just got on with getting prices etc

Found out about a garage in dub run by a Lithuanian lad who previously worked as a BMW mechanic in his native land. This guy came highly recommended to me. Really had a great knowledge & has done quite a few chains on E60's already

Unbelievably when he had my car stripped down he discovered that while the timing chains were at early stage of going wrong in my case it was the flywheel / clutch problem that was causing the problem & was in fact the more urgent. Last thing I needed to hear but cutting to the chase had to get it done. The mechanic didnt charge me a cent more for labour for the clutch flywheel job. €550 for clutch flywheel parts on line with an Irish company. BMW priced these parts for €1462.

Chain parts are cheap enough (crankshaft did not need replacing & was perfect although crankshaft seal was replaced). coming in at €300. There are 2 chains, one is an 'oil chain' both were replaced.

My total bill for chain, flywheel , clutch & oil service parts & labour was €1600. Now that's money I hadn't budgeted for & don't have lying around but had no choice but to get job done.

Anyone wanting details of mechanic etc just PM me I couldn't recommend him highly enough,

Fingers crossed I'm trouble free now for a long long time as I can't afford to change the car anyhow...

Pity about the clutch & flywheel otherwise it would of worked out a lot cheaper than what some folk are been quoted to get the issue sorted.

Other thing is even going through bmw for a good will gesture would of ended up much more expensive, roughly 3k..

The Pontiac

These are not the same engine fitted to a 2006 320D coupe? The buddies chain snapped two weeks ago and it cost him €3k to repair, at a BMW specialist.

bazz26

The Pontiac wrote: »

These are not the same engine fitted to a 2006 320D coupe? The buddies chain snapped two weeks ago and it cost him €3k to repair, at a BMW specialist.

No they are not. Your buddy's coupe has the older M47 engine, very rare for the chain to snap on one of them.

The Pontiac

bazz26 wrote: »

No they are not. Your buddy's coupe has the older M47 engine, very rare for the chain to snap on one of them.

Thought it might be an older design alright. High pressure fuel pump ceased, thus causing the chain to snap.

Mechanic suspected dirty fuel.

Loch Garman Gael

the culture of deference wrote: »

What would happen if you drove the car to germany?

Would be a long way to go to be told to PFO.
Having said that if I though that's what it would have taken for a goodwill warranty I would have got it over there somehow ...

irish bloke

Bought a 06 520d M-Sport today. Do I definitely have the M47 engine or is there any chance I could have the unreliable N47?
Thanks

Blazer

irish bloke wrote: »

Bought a 06 520d M-Sport today. Do I definitely have the M47 engine or is there any chance I could have the unreliable N47?
Thanks

No you have the M47 engine.
N47 only appeared from Sept 07 onwards.

congrats and well wear
Have one and I love it....look into doing a remap for it..really transforms it.

Elessar

I have a 2009 318d which i bought last month. Only 40k miles on the clock. No sign of any chain noises or rattle. Has a 1 year BMW warranty, which I was told I can extend at the end. Good idea? I'd rather remap it!

irish bloke

Blazer wrote: »

No you have the M47 engine.
N47 only appeared from Sept 07 onwards.

congrats and well wear
Have one and I love it....look into doing a remap for it..really transforms it.

Thanks, car is in great nick, with just a few small manageable issues(I hope).

Reading a little bit abt the M47 and swirl flap issue and turbo oil filter are coming up a bit.

Would you know do I have to act on these issues with this engine/car.

bazz26

irish bloke wrote: »

Thanks, car is in great nick, with just a few small manageable issues(I hope).

Reading a little bit abt the M47 and swirl flap issue and turbo oil filter are coming up a bit.

Would you know do I have to act on these issues with this engine/car.

Get the swirl flaps removed and replaced with blanks, costs about €100 to do. If any of the swirl flaps break off they will get ingested into the engine and kill it.

Have the turbo breather filter replaced every second or third oil service. If this gets blocked it will starve the turbo of oil and blow it. If doesn't already have the newer vortex shaped filter then get that one as it helps prevent the blockage. New vortex filter and housing costs about €70 or €80 from a dealer.

These are really not expensive measures, not doing them and it will inevitably going to cost you more in the long run.