Gardai tracking RF100 non-use declarations

Blut2

Quick question for any Gardai (or other people in the know) here - I was in my local station last night getting my RF100 form stamped for non-use of my car for the past few months. The gard went off to check the details and came back and said that I'd "gotten quite a few of these forms stamped" over the past 18 months and quizzed me a little on it before stamping my form.

I know they generally check to see if your reg has come up for any speeding offenses but I've never had this said to me before. Is it now policy to record the stamping of these forms on pulse? Or is it just my local station keeping records?

Kenny Logins

Just you I'd say.

kirving

They really should be keeping records. A pattern of 3 months on, 1/2 months off becomes obvious fairly quickly.

cpoh1

Kevin Irving wrote: »

They really should be keeping records. A pattern of 3 months on, 1/2 months off becomes obvious fairly quickly.

No they should not. The gardai's role in this is very specific and defined - they witness you signing the declaration and sign and stamp the form to that effect. What you have written on the form is irrelevant and outside the scope of their role in this.

Is it up to a solicitor to verify you are telling the truth when they are swearing a document for you?

corktina

no no the Gards role is to investigate any breach of the Law and false declarations are most definitely that,

Matt Simis

Kevin Irving wrote: »

They really should be keeping records. A pattern of 3 months on, 1/2 months off becomes obvious fairly quickly.

And also doesnt prove any wrong doing does it?

ba_barabus

Why is your car so regularly being declared off the road?

Matt Simis

ba_barabus wrote: »

Why is your car so regularly being declared off the road?

Who's car? In general, any number of reasons, most obvious being its a limited use secondary car. Kinda "normal" isnt it, given motor tax isnt for usage of car, its for ownership unless declared off the road?

ba_barabus

Matt Simis wrote: »

Who's car?

The OPs.

I'm well aware of genuine reasons for cars being declared off the road but when it gets to the point of the Gardaì recognising the regularity of you doing I'd be getting suspicious

MugMugs

I can't see the relevance of why their car is off the road to the topic in hand. I've never noticed or indeed been asked about previous declarations. Indeed, I've never seen details taken from the form for such a "log" to be updated.

Would the local council potentially be updating this?

Blut2

ba_barabus wrote: »

The OPs.

I'm well aware of genuine reasons for cars being declared off the road but when it gets to the point of the Gardaì recognising the regularity of you doing I'd be getting suspicious

I wasnt recognized by face - I've never met the Gard before in my life and its quite a busy/large station. So it must just be a record attached to my reg. Which is why I'm wondering if its a local station policy or if its country-wide on pulse policy now.

As for why its off the road - thats not entirely relevant to the thread - but its because its a second car. My other-half gets seconded to companies in different locations for a few months at a time so doesnt always need a car, when she does we use the second car, when she doesnt we dont. Over the past 2.5 years the car has been taxed for 3 months, 6 months, 3 months and 3 months I think - with varying breaks inbetween each one of zero months up to 4 months.

ba_barabus

MugMugs wrote: »

I can't see the relevance of why their car is off the road to the topic in hand.

I'm not accusing the OP of anything hence I asked why it was off the road.

I can understand however why the Gardai would like to know if you are using a service they are involved in to commit fraud.

Edit: the OP gives a clears explanation above as to why its declared off the road.

I do know a lot of people abuse the system as it is and I can understand why a record may be kept.

Drummerboy08

corktina wrote: »

no no the Gards role is to investigate any breach of the Law and false declarations are most definitely that,

So a garda needs to investigate anyone who wants a non use form signed for fraud before signing it?

What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

ba_barabus

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

So a garda needs to investigate anyone who wants a non use form signed for fraud before signing it?

What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Would you sign off on a legal form if you suspected it would be used to commit fraud?

MugMugs

ba_barabus wrote: »

I'm not accusing the OP of anything hence I asked why it was off the road.

I can understand however why the Gardai would like to know if you are using a service they are involved in to commit fraud.

Edit: the OP gives a clears explanation above as to why its declared off the road.

I do know a lot of people abuse the system as it is and I can understand why a record may be kept.

I didn't say you accused the OP of anything. I just said it was none of your business and had no relevance to their query.

MugMugs

ba_barabus wrote: »

Would you sign off on a legal form if you suspected it would be used to commit fraud?

Knowingly no but there's no repercussions for the Garda if they didn't knowingly sign it and it was a false declaration.

ba_barabus

MugMugs wrote: »

I just said it was none of your business and had no relevance to their query.

Isn't it against the charter to help people avoid legal responsibilities?

I'd hate to think I gave advice which helped someone avoid paying tax.

As the OP kindly answered the question I fail to see why you think its none of my business. Given what he has said it seems clear Gardai are keeping an eye on the matter.

While I can't remember exactly I have a feeling that new powers were given to the Gardai to pass such information on to revenue after the last budget but someone else might be able to clarify that.

Tbh I think the current system is a crock of shyte and we need a sorn system (without a charge) implemented. It's a pain the arse for those of us who pay our motor tax to constantly hear stories of those who avoid it.

blackbird99

here is a case from 2009, still thintk it.s a good idea? http://www.independent.ie/regionals/goreyguardian/news/driver-trying-to-avoid-car-tax-is-caught-out-27328126.html

Pappa Charlie

The fraud takes place after the form is signed and the declaration made if its false, it often comes to light after other offences are detected. If its at a local station the garda will probably know you and the car if you are genuine or trying it on, tax offices retain these forms and are available to Garda for prosecution and from my experience judges fairly hammer out the fines when it comes before the courts.

MugMugs

ba_barabus wrote: »

Isn't it against the charter to help people avoid legal responsibilities?

I'd hate to think I gave advice which helped someone avoid paying tax.

As the OP kindly answered the question I fail to see why you think its none of my business.

It's against the charter to advocate breaking the law. Can't see how the OP was trying to do that from the OP really And it's none of your business because it's frankly not relevant to the query. That's all I was saying

ba_barabus

MugMugs wrote: »

It's against the charter to advocate breaking the law. Can't see how the OP was trying to do that from the OP really And it's none of your business because it's frankly not relevant to the query. That's all I was saying

Well if the OP replied that they were doing it to avoid paying road tax it would be entirely relevant

It's funny how in none of your replies to the OP you've adding anything of help or advice to the OP .

Maybe you should be less concerned about me and more concerned about growing your motoring knowledge

MugMugs

...... Anyway.... Let us know if there's any other carry on from this op. I'd be interested to know who is tracking this if indeed anybody is.

MugMugs

MugMugs wrote: »

............. ............ ...........

Nice to see you using the smilies.

ba_barabus

RoverJames wrote: »

Nice to see you using the smilies.

Reminds me of the scene from Blazing Saddles when they rob the clothes from the KKK

ironclaw

MugMugs wrote: »

...... Anyway.... Let us know if there's any other carry on from this op. I'd be interested to know who is tracking this if indeed anybody is.

Pulse would have a record against the reg number. Fairly simple stuff.

MugMugs

ironclaw wrote: »

Pulse would have a record against the reg number. Fairly simple stuff.

Who updates that though? Can't say the Gardai do as I've never seen them take my details so would it be the local council?

elvis99

I got 14 months of tax wrote off yesterday (car was genuinely off the road with an engine problem) , the guard signing it didn't even bat an eyelid.

When is the new SORN system like the UK due to be introduced?

ba_barabus

MugMugs wrote: »

Who updates that though? Can't say the Gardai do as I've never seen them take my details so would it be the local council?

Do you often follow the Gardai through the station as they do their paper work?

I can assure you its often updated including a log of the Gardai who access it and when and where they accessed it.

MugMugs

ba_barabus wrote: »

Do you often follow the Gardai through the station as they do their paper work?

I can assure you its often updated including a log of the Gardai who access it and when and where they accessed it.

Eh, it doesn't take inspector morse to watch a Garda grab a pen, sign and stamp a form and hand it back to you without reading it..... Does it?

ba_barabus

MugMugs wrote: »

Eh, it doesn't take inspector morse to watch a Garda grab a pen, sign and stamp a form and hand it back to you without reading it..... Does it?

You making a sweeping statement about the pulse system not being updated (it can only be accessed by Gardai btw) makes me think your talking about things you haven't a clue about

MugMugs

ba_barabus wrote: »

You making a sweeping statement about the pulse system not being updated (it can only be accessed by Gardai btw) makes me think your talking about things you haven't a clue about

Haha.... You're funny. I'm stating my observations John boy

ba_barabus

MugMugs wrote: »

Haha.... You're funny. I'm stating my observations John boy

You should observe more and talk less then

Blut2

ironclaw wrote: »

Pulse would have a record against the reg number. Fairly simple stuff.

I'm aware of pulse keeping a record of every reg number for offenses etc - but do you mean a record is kept on pulse against the reg number of the number of "off-the-roads" signed/stamped?

MugMugs

ba_barabus wrote: »

You should observe more and talk less then

How can you draw that conclusion exactly? Are you saying I've never seen a member of the Gardai take my form, sign it and stamp it and hand it back to me without actually fully noting the information contained on it? Are you calling me out as a liar? Can you support this claim please?

The Bishop Basher

I have had countless forms signed. The guard grabs a pen, signs and stamps the form and hands it back. They take no notes or records. If you know otherwise please elaborate, otherwise your making assumptions and based on my experience, they are wrong.

nacimroc

People are going into the cop station every month and getting a new form stamped. That way if they get caught for no tax, they don't have to backdate it. They can just renew from the beginning of that month.

Thats why the cop was getting onto you. Maybe he thought you looked familiar.

ba_barabus

MugMugs wrote: »

How can you draw that conclusion exactly? Are you saying I've never seen a member of the Gardai take my form, sign it and stamp it and hand it back to me without actually fully noting the information contained on it? Are you calling me out as a liar? Can you support this claim please?

In your original statement you made a sweeping statement that pulse was never updated. Now you're narrowing the focus a lot down to one form.

I never called you a liar or made reference to the fact. You done that son

I think more people would pay the tax if the tax was lowered.

Car tax can be stupidly expensive, to the extent that people are happy to take their chances and gamble with being caught. If it were cheaper to tax a car, the risk/reward ratio would be skewered and people would pay the tax as the amount would be lesser and it'd be more a case of "ah sure I'll pay it for the peace of mind".


... In my opinion, anyway.

Blut2

Swanner wrote: »

I have had countless forms signed. The guard grabs a pen, signs and stamps the form and hands it back. They take no notes or records. If you know otherwise please elaborate, otherwise your making assumptions and based on my experience, they are wrong.

Every time I've had my form signed they've gone off with it for 2-3min to the back office before coming back and signing it. I've always assumed theyre checking to see if the reg has come up on pulse for speeding or anything else in the months declared off the road. This time was the first time anything was said to me about having the forms signed repeatedly, though.

MugMugs

ba_barabus wrote: »

In your original statement you made a sweeping statement that pulse was never updated. Now you're narrowing the focus a lot down to one form.

I never called you a liar or made reference to the fact. You done that son

You've inferred it and have failed to show where I said "pulse was never updated"

Triangla

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think more people would pay the tax if the tax was lowered.

Car tax can be stupidly expensive, to the extent that people are happy to take their chances and gamble with being caught. If it were cheaper to tax a car, the risk/reward ratio would be skewered and people would pay the tax as the amount would be lesser and it'd be more a case of "ah sure I'll pay it for the peace of mind".


... In my opinion, anyway.

Or increasing the penalty would have the same effect in your equation.

ba_barabus

MugMugs wrote: »

You've inferred it and have failed to show where I said "pulse was never updated"

MugMugs wrote: »

Who updates that though? Can't say the Gardai do

I never called or inferred you were a liar

MugMugs

ba_barabus wrote: »

I never called or inferred you were a liar

Pathetic!

At least Quote the statement in its entirety as apposed to editing it to suit your strangely odd argument. Here. I was speaking about my own experience, there's nothing sweeping about that. Surely a teacher would know that

MugMugs wrote: »

Who updates that though? Can't say the Gardai do as I've never seen them take my details so would it be the local council?

ba_barabus

MugMugs wrote: »

Pathetic!

At least Quote the statement in its entirety as apposed to editing it to suit your strangely odd argument. Here. I was speaking about my own experience, there's nothing sweeping about that. Surely a teacher would know that

It is a sweeping statement to say the Gardai don't update pulse.

Which is clearly what you said from your requote and mine.

Triangla

Triangla wrote: »

Or increasing the penalty would have the same effect in your equation.

Ah, I'd be doubtful. Most people know they'll never be caught. You'd need to be incredibly unlucky, and with AGS bitter about being hit with cuts again, even if you were caught you'd probably be waved on through a road stop anyway.

If anyone has any stats, would actually be interesting to see what your realistic odds of (a) being caught and (b) being done are. I'd guess it's over 10,000/1?

ba_barabus

MugMugs wrote: »

Pathetic!

At least Quote the statement in its entirety as apposed to editing it to suit your strangely odd argument. Here. I was speaking about my own experience, there's nothing sweeping about that. Surely a teacher would know that

It is a sweeping statement to say the Gardai don't update pulse.

Which is clearly what you said from your requote and mine.

I'd report your post btw for attacking the poster and not the post only you've deleted it........editing to suit your needs maybe?

MugMugs

ba_barabus wrote: »

It is a sweeping statement to say the Gardai don't update pulse.

Which is clearly what you said from your requote and mine.

I'd report your post btw for attacking the poster and not the post only you've deleted it........editing to suit your needs maybe?

I referred specifically to my experiences. How is that sweeping?

MugMugs

ba_barabus wrote: »

It is a sweeping statement to say the Gardai don't update pulse.

Which is clearly what you said from your requote and mine.

I'd report your post btw forattacking the poster and not the post only you've deleted it........editing to suit your needs maybe?

Report away. I haven't edited any post and Mods can see edits.

ba_barabus

MugMugs wrote: »

I referred specifically to my experiences. How is that sweeping?

It's sweeping to say you've never seen ANY Garda take your details and enter them in pulse. How much more sweeping do you want?

ba_barabus

MugMugs wrote: »

Report away. I haven't edited any post and Mods can see edits.

My phone was being a spacktard.

No edit was done it appears

MugMugs

ba_barabus wrote: »

It's sweeping to say you've never seen ANY Garda take your details and enter them in pulse. How much more sweeping do you want?

When getting a declaration form signed? No it's not. I've done it seven times and I've always watched them very carefully not note any of the information on the form. How's that sweeping? It's fact