First build, €600 PC

jimjamcoolio

1. What is your budget? €600

2. What will be the main purpose of the computer? General use, Light Photoshop, Playing Newish games (Witcher 2, Farcry 3, Batman:AA) and hopefully releases to come (GTA V, TW: Rome2, TES:online)

3. Do you need a copy of Windows? No

4. Can you use any parts from an old computer? Nope

5. Do you need a monitor? Yes but I might be able to get a second hand one for €30

5a. If yes, what size do you need. Biggest my budget will allow

6. Do you need any of these peripherals? Pretty sure I have all that

7. Are you willing to try overclocking? Yeah why not

8. How can you pay? Credit Card, Paypal

9. When are you purchasing? Within the next week or two

10. If you need help building it, where are you based? Should be grand but West Cork

AMD FX-6300 Prozessor, Boxed, Sockel AM3+
ready for dispatch 122,56 €
122,56 €
Article No. HV30AP24DE
Xigmatek Gaia SD1283 Heatpipe Cooler 120mm
ready for dispatch 23,99 €
23,99 €
Article No. HV1136IJDE
Gigabyte GA-970-UD3, AMD 970, AM3+, ATX
ready for dispatch 79,22 €
79,22 €
Article No. HV20AR05DE
8GB ADATA Premier Series DDR3-1600 CL11
ready for dispatch 47,24 €
47,24 €
Article No. HV13WG1ZDE
WD Caviar Green 1TB, SATA 6Gb/s (WD10EZRX)
ready for dispatch 58,79 €
58,79 €
Article No. HV1030IQDE
Gigabyte GeForce GTX 650 Ti Boost EditionWindforce 2X, 2GB GDDR5, VGA, 2x DVI, HDMI
ready for dispatch from 2013-04-03 167,20 €
167,20 €
Article No. HV206S1BDE
Samsung SH-118AB schwarz
ready for dispatch 12,98 €
12,98 €
Article No. HV203R23DE
HKC Case 7053GD, ATX, 420Watt
ready for dispatch 38,99 €
38,99 €

Total: €550.97

What do you think?

BloodBath

A bit over budget but managed to sqeeze a 1080p 22" monitor in there and a graphics card powerful enough to handle 1080p well for a while. Will be €620 in total including delivery. The script isn't working so no tables and links

jimjamcoolio

Cheers for the reply but just want to ask a few questions,

Firstly, What's wrong with my case? It does come with a power supply which knocks €35 off your price. But would I be correct if I guessed that your coolers only work in your case?

Secondly, Is the difference of speeds between 1600MHz and 1333MHz for RAM noticeable?

Thirdly, How's the motherboard I selected for OCing? I see you've forgotten to choose one for me :P

Fourthly, How much would I have to spend for a HDMI input on the monitor? Or can you get some sort of adapter I can use if I wanted to plug in my ps3? And can someone clarify the differences between DVI-D, VGA, HDMI etc. and is it possible to get adapters between them?

And lastly, Is hardwareversand a good retailer? I've heard a few horror stories but just be careful to order only things in stock and I should be grand. Is this true?

BloodBath

No problem.

Anything that's that cheap coming with a power supply with no specs is going to be awful. It will have a poor choice of connectors, poor power and efficiency, poor cooling and will most likely blow up in the first 3 years of use possibly taking the rest of your pc with it. It's cheap for a reason.

The speed of the ram will make little to no difference. The ones i linked while running slower at 1333mhz they also have lower timings which is a good thing. CL9 compared to CL11 to compare the main timing. For timings lower is better. I'd say if anything the 1333 cl9's would perform a bit better but it's not going to be noticeable either way outside of synthetic benchmarks.

Man I was wondering how that build got so close to the budget. I had a board in there but must have deleted it. For an a strong overclocker I'd probably go with this but you will need a decent after market cpu cooler to make the most of it. This is a decent budget option. Either way it's going to push you over budget

There are cheaper options than this but they are so close in price to this panel that it would be a crime not to spend the extra for a good ips panel. The stand is a bit wobbly though so if you don't have a sturdy desk it might not be best choice. You can get hdmi to dvi adaptors afaik. HDMI and DVI-D single link both carry digital signals with a maximum resolution of 1920x1200. HDMI can also carry sound. DVI is an analog signal capable of higher resolutions but because it's analog the picture quality is not continuous and will vary with connection quality, electronic interference, cable quality ect.

They are top notch. i've been ordering stuff from them for years. Never had a problem as have most of this forum.

jimjamcoolio

Thanks a million for your help!

BloodBath wrote: »

They are top notch. i've been ordering stuff from them for years. Never had a problem as have most of this forum.

Isn't there something strange about their payment policy? Don't they only accept bank transfers or something.

Also, will I need to buy anything else? such as an anti static wristband or thermal paste?

BloodBath

Yes it's bank transfers or paypal but you will have to pay 3% extra if you go with paypal.

No need for anti static bands, just ground yourself on a radiator beforehand. The cpu cooler has a film of paste pre applied.

Gumbi

7870

I would make an argument that some people can do fine on 4GB RAM. Spending the difference saved on this card would definitely help a gaming build, as long as you know how to reasonably manage your multitasking. What do others think?

BloodBath

You could but it's a bit of annoyance having to close backround programs and/or browsers when you want to play something.

The sapphire 7850 will be pretty close to that 7870 in performance anyway and has a better cooler so should allow higher overclocks. I wouldn't bother with a normal 7870 with the 7870xt's on the market for a little more.

Gumbi

BloodBath wrote: »

You could but it's a bit of annoyance having to close backround programs and/or browsers when you want to play something.

The sapphire 7850 will be pretty close to that 7870 in performance anyway and has a better cooler so should allow higher overclocks. I wouldn't bother with a normal 7870 with the 7870xt's on the market for a little more.

Fair enough. I think even with 4 gigs you don't have to be toooo efficient. Then again, I'm not one of those people who has a ton of stuff running while gaming.

I think it's debateable top be honest. Maybe just get one stick of 4GB now and get another stick if you really need it, investing in the 7870 now? I dunno, maybe the benefit isn't worth it.

BloodBath

It's an option I guess. You could stretch the budget and go for this either. Free copies of tomb raider and bioshock infinite to sweeten the deal.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Club-3D-7870XTV-JokerCard-Graphic/dp/B00BF9EYFM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1365529256&sr=8-1&keywords=7870xt

jimjamcoolio

Ok, do you think BloodBaths' build with the ASRock 970 Extreme3 would stay cool enough lightly overclocked or do i need an aftermarket cooler?

Gumbi wrote: »

Then again, I'm not one of those people who has a ton of stuff running while gaming.

I think i'd prefer the RAM, i'm exactly that sort of person


Another question, If an item is out of stock on hwvs will they send the rest of the parts out or would they wait till they're all in stock to ship? and any idea if, once i ordered an item that says "delivery date unknown", they order the item and it comes the next shipment? As in, is it just out of stock because it's out of demand?

thanks!

uncle_sam_ie

If it's out of stock they wait until it's in to ship the lot. Which could take awhile.

BloodBath

They are usually quick with restocking. I've seen stuff that was out of stock with no shipment information being back in stock in a day or 2. What's out of stock? Could maybe suggest an alternative.

The budget board I suggested would be fine for some mild overclocking. If you want a good overclock on the cpu the extreme board is the way to go with an aftermarket cpu cooler. This is a great cooler.

In the short term you would be better putting that extra cost into the graphics card and getting the 7870xt linked above. You could always use the stock cooler for now and get a better one down the line.

TerrorFirmer

BloodBath wrote: »

I wouldn't bother with a normal 7870 with the 7870xt's on the market for a little more.

I don't know why you keep saying that. Cheapest 7870's are only 15 euro more expensive than the 7850. Pixmania sell 7870's for €169, UK PIX sells them for £143 - same price as the 7850 on HWV, actually. Much cheaper than the XT...

tuxy

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I don't know why you keep saying that. Cheapest 7870's are only 15 euro more expensive than the 7850. Pixmania sell 7870's for €169, UK PIX sells them for £143 - same price as the 7850 on HWV, actually. Much cheaper than the XT...

I'm not sure that's a fair comparison since the cheaper cards on pixmania use reference coolers and the 7870 xt's on HWV use high quality coolers.
Although it is worth considering if the buyer is not worried about overclocking or fan noise.

TerrorFirmer

But when you're on a budget, I don't think it's that important. Sometimes people are too obsessed with fitting in case fans, aftermarket cpu coolers and so on even in budget builds, when a large amount of people don't require these items - or would rather sacrifice them in favour of faster parts. I have case fans, cpu cooler, dual-x 7850 myself, but if I was on a tight budget, they would be the first things I would sacrifice in favor of faster parts! Nothing wrong with using stock coolers on a budget. The saving between stock cooler and reference card vs aftermarket cpu cooler and a better cooled card can mean a 7870 vs a 7950 or similar....or in this case, a 7850 and a 7870. Also, Pix doesn't even seem to strictly stock 'OEM' cards - nearly everyone's who's bought one seems to have gotten a Sapphire Ghz card, which has a good cooler.

marco_polo

If you think going from a HD7870 to a HD7950 is a worthwhile upgrade then I can't see why you think going from a regular HD7870 to a HD7870XT wouldn't be?

BloodBath

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

But when you're on a budget, I don't think it's that important. Sometimes people are too obsessed with fitting in case fans, aftermarket cpu coolers and so on even in budget builds, when a large amount of people don't require these items - or would rather sacrifice them in favour of faster parts. I have case fans, cpu cooler, dual-x 7850 myself, but if I was on a tight budget, they would be the first things I would sacrifice in favor of faster parts! Nothing wrong with using stock coolers on a budget. The saving between stock cooler and reference card vs aftermarket cpu cooler and a better cooled card can mean a 7870 vs a 7950 or similar....or in this case, a 7850 and a 7870. Also, Pix doesn't even seem to strictly stock 'OEM' cards - nearly everyone's who's bought one seems to have gotten a Sapphire Ghz card, which has a good cooler.

Except I paid attention to what the buyer wants.

7. Are you willing to try overclocking? Yeah why not

Also why I said.

In the short term you would be better putting that extra cost into the graphics card and getting the 7870xt linked above. You could always use the stock cooler for now and get a better one down the line.

That's why I don't link crappy coolers just because they are cheap. A 7850 with a good cooler overclocked will beat a ****y reference 7870 at stock.

Is pixmanias delivery free?

TerrorFirmer

Except I paid attention to what the buyer wants.

Sorry, I was only making a general statement. I didn't specifically mean in this case, sorry if it came across that way. Personally I have a 7850 for that very reason, great value for money and overclocks like a champ. The OEM 7870 on Pix though from all accounts appears to be a Sapphire model which has the same cooler as that 7850, so it'd be a better buy for the same money as the 7850 HWV.

marco_polo wrote: »

If you think going from a HD7870 to a HD7950 is a worthwhile upgrade then I can't see why you think going from a regular HD7870 to a HD7870XT wouldn't be?

I mean that more as just a comment on economics of a budget build rather than any inherent personal belief in any particular cards value for money. Of course I think going from a 7870 to a 7870XT is a worthwhile investment but sometimes when a budgets in place it just can't be increased, I was just saying that for the same money he could fit a 7870 into that build. Whereas the XT requires increasing the budget.

jimjamcoolio

Sorry for dragging this out for so long and I really appreciate all of your help.

I think I'm going to go with BloodBath's build with the 970DE3 mobo and a nice ips.

The only problem is, my desk isn't too sturdy so maybe the lg flatron isn't the best choice? Or is the stand not too bad?

Cheers!

BloodBath

The stand is a bit wobbly. You could either wall mount it or modify it to be less wobbly.

You're looking at an extra €50 for the Dell ultrasharp if you want a better stand. Alternatively you could go for a TN panel for slightly less than the LG.

TerrorFirmer

Or check Ebay or Adverts for Desk Clamps. I got one for my 2nd monitor on adverts for 40 euro, and it's incredibly handy. Folds away when not in use, tidy, and stable, even on my rickety sweat-shop desk.

jimjamcoolio

BloodBath wrote: »

The stand is a bit wobbly. You could either wall mount it or modify it to be less wobbly.

You're looking at an extra €50 for the Dell ultrasharp if you want a better stand. Alternatively you could go for a TN panel for slightly less than the LG.

Hmm I think that would be a bit of a stretch..

Would the TN have good viewing/tilting angles?

BloodBath

Not compared to ips no. They are far inferior. I'd sooner have a good screen with a poor stand than a good stand with a poor screen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWXcNlh85Ps

beno619

BloodBath wrote: »

Not compared to ips no. They are far inferior. I'd sooner have a good screen with a poor stand than a good stand with a poor screen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWXcNlh85Ps

+1
I feel like vomiting whenever I have to use my laptop away from the LG ips, once you see it you won't be able to go back.

jimjamcoolio

BloodBath wrote: »

Not compared to ips no. They are far inferior. I'd sooner have a good screen with a poor stand than a good stand with a poor screen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWXcNlh85Ps

Point taken, it's beautiful!

jimjamcoolio

Nearly ready to buy it now but just another few questions to ask.


Do you think that 400W for the PSU might be cutting it a bit fine?

What's the onboard sound quality of either of those motherboards? or do I need a sound card? if so, internal or external?

If I was to get this case http://www.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=76197&agid=631, would it mean I'd have 2 headphone outputs and 2 microphone inputs and they could be used simultaneously? Also, how do they (and the case's USB ports) connect to the motherboard?

BloodBath

400w will be plenty for that system. I'd say it will use maybe 300-330w tops with overclocking. You could spend an extra €10 for the 450w if you want a bit more headroom. It's silver rated compared to bronze as well.

The onboard sound will be fine. You're looking at around €100 for a decent sound card.

Yes you will have 2 outputs. I'm not sure about using both at the same time. It's just more convenient using the front ports.

There will be a cable inside the case that connects to the usb headers on the motherboard. There will be headers on the board for the front audio as well.

Consider getting this monitor as well. It's far better than the other one and well worth the extra €25. The picture quality and viewing angles will be far better. It also has a hdmi connection.

jimjamcoolio

Thanks for all your help, you guys are brilliant!

Item|Price
AMD FX-6300 Prozessor, Boxed, Sockel AM3+|€121.53
Samsung SH-118AB schwarz|€12.23
2 x BitFenix Spectre 120mm Lüfter - all black|€11.98
Sapphire Radeon HD 7850, 2GB GDDR5, lite retail|€175.22
Seagate Barracuda 7200 1000GB, SATA 6Gb/s|€59.84
be quiet! SYSTEM POWER 7 400W|€38.94
8GB-Kit A-Data Value PC3-1333 CL9|€54.60
Cooltek CT K5 3.0, ohne Netzteil|€42.91
LG 22EA53VQ-P|€129.00
ASUS M5A97 R2.0, AM3+, ATX|€76.34
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€741.58

I'm gonna order this tomorrow, can't wait

BloodBath

Looks good, you could change the ram to this. €5 saved.

Change the fans to these €6 saved.

Change the HDD to this €1.50 saved

You could pocket that or use it to upgrade the psu or case.

This is a good case for the money. It's only a little more than the standard Shinobi and comes with 2 bitfenix 120mm fans instead of 1 and the tool-less bays.

The 400w system power 7 doesn't have sleeved cables. The 450w upwards does. It's also silver rated compared to bronze.

jimjamcoolio

Doesn't ram benefit greatly from two sticks (dual-channel)?

Cheers!

and Cheers!

I think I might go for that psu upgrade. Has there been any negative feedback on the case I have picked? It's got 2 usb3.0 and 2 usb2.0 instead of just the 4 usb2.0 ports.

BloodBath

My bad, I didn't notice it was a single stick.

A little although in that price range you really can't have high expectations. The only other case I'd consider in that price range is the Bitfenix merc alpha but this doesn't have usb 3.0 or half the features.

jimjamcoolio

Can it really be that bad? I think i'd prefer to have a good psu that won't blow up in my face instead of a slightly wobbly case.. But then again, i wouldn't know the extent of just how bad a case can be.

Also, the 450w psu won't have to be upgraded for longer

BloodBath

The other guy that bought it had a couple of minor niggles with it although didn't really explain his issues with it. It is at the end of the day a €40 case. You can only expect so much.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056924689

jimjamcoolio

After reading that I've worried myself..

Is Be Quiet! a well known brand?

Does the fx-6300 reach speeds of 6000rpm too??

and from what he said i can't see too much wrong with the case. it's not like it's going to collapse or melt or anything :P

BloodBath

Be Quiet is a good brand. The 400w psu is fine apart from the lack of sleeving.

As far as power delivery and noise levels go they are usually top notch.

You could go for the 450 super flower amazon either. I'm unsure if the cables on that are sleeved though.

I have no idea about the stock cooler on the fx range. I'd hope it's better.

jimjamcoolio

Quick google confirms the fx 6300 temps are grand but cant find anything on fan speeds..

Ok and how's Super Flower as regards to power delivery and noise levels? I think i'd prefer a 450w psu.

Gumbi

BloodBath wrote: »

Be Quiet is a good brand. The 400w psu is fine apart from the lack of sleeving.

As far as power delivery and noise levels go they are usually top notch.

You could go for the 450 super flower amazon either. I'm unsure if the cables on that are sleeved though.

I have no idea about the stock cooler on the fx range. I'd hope it's better.

I've heard good things about them. I'm thinking of investing in one of their high end air coolers (dark rock pro 2). Once I get my computer back up and running I'm going to bin my CPU and see if it's worth getting that cooler to squeeze a few extra MHz out of it.

BloodBath

The BeQuiet system power 7 450w is a good all round psu for the price.

jimjamcoolio

Ok, gonna order it now.

I'll report back when it's up and running/if i need help to get it up and running. :P

Thanks a million!

jimjamcoolio

Ah damn, after all my procrastinating, the ASUS M9A97 R2.0 is out of stock. Is it worth waiting for or should i just go for the ASRock 970 Extreme3?

BloodBath

The Asus board is slightly better. A bit more connectivity and slightly better power delivery to the processor.

There's not much in it though to be honest.

jimjamcoolio

Which one runs cooler and has better overclockabilty?

BloodBath

The asus should be able to overclock better but I hear the north bridge heatsink on that board is bad.

It will only matter if you get a good cpu cooler and are trying to achieve high overclocks.

This is a strong overclocker with it's 8+2 power phase design. The ASrock is 4+1 and the Asus 4+2.

I don't think it would have much on an impact with a budget cooler and a 6300 though. More for high end coolers on 8350's.

jimjamcoolio

Hmm.. I think i'll just go for the ASRock.

But seriously, i am so incredibly grateful for your help.

Absolute legend!

BloodBath

No problem, let us know how you get on.

jimjamcoolio

So, at last all my parts arrived! Just wondering is there any really useful things to know before i put it together?
Rookie mistakes to avoid and such like?

BloodBath

Not really. There's loads of guides on youtube anyway.

jimjamcoolio

I got it all together now. Don't have a long enough ethernet cable though so am not able to fully enjoy the fruits of my labour yet but so far it all looks very nice.

Its grand, does the job well enough. Haven't tested any of the front panel sockets as of yet but i'm loving the fan controllers. :cool:

Only thing i really didnt like about was that i had to break the PCI covers. Which I wouldnt mind normally but i broke off the wrong one at first

One issue i have is the disc drive space on the front of the case. When it opens it goes down in front of the eject button a bit. Not a major problem i just feel it could have been designed better.

Overall, i don't think i'd recommend the case to a beginner. Comes with no documentation apart from a small 2 page german thing explain the airflow.
But i'm not sure if this is normal for a case or not.

I really should have checked if the mobo i was getting had any usb3.0 headers. Wasn't thinking of them at all.


Any more questions on my build I'd be glad to answer. I'll be gone for the rest of the week so i can upload photos maybe next week if you want?

BloodBath

Thanks for the feedback. I won't recommend that case again then.

There was a lot of features crammed into that price. Something had to give.

Ah yes I don't understand why a lot of those budget and mid range am3+ boards don't have usb3 headers when they have rear usb ports and full sata3. Sorry I overlooked it too.

jimjamcoolio

BloodBath wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback. I won't recommend that case again then.

There was a lot of features crammed into that price. Something had to give.

It does do the job though. I'd say recommend it all you want just make sure the buyer knows about the setbacks.

Something i am worried about is my CD drive actually. It goes very loud when loading up. Is this a known issue with the model? or is it faulty? or maybe the case isn't holding it properly and its vibrating in it's place?