Moral authority and of RTE Current Affairs "Stars"

T runner

The 2011 Salaries for the top ten paid RTE personalities have been released:

1. Ryan Tubridy – €723,000
2. Pat Kenny – €630,000
3. Marian Finucane – €492,000
4. Joe Duffy – €378,000
5. Miriam O’Callaghan – €307,000
6. Brendan O’Connor – €228,500
7. Derek Mooney – €220,000.
8. Sean O’Rourke – €209,000
9. George Hamilton – €203,000
10. Bryan Dobson – €198,000

These have been reduced by roughly 30% in their new contracts leaving Pat Kenny on €630,000 (contract to be negotiated), Tubridy on just below half a million, and Marian Finucane and Joe Duffy around the €300,000 mark.
These salaries are still surely massively bloated for public service presenters in current economic conditions.

Also, All but 3 of the top 10 avail of a legal Tax avoidance scheme where they are paid by a yearly contract to a company they set up and are only liable for the amount they draw down as salary per annum, expenses can be offset against tax. They are also free to use the celebrity they have gained from their position to gain extra income for this companies independently via hosting private events, lectures, appearance money etc.

Do these stars have the moral authority to question, for example, excessive salaries that they see being paid to the chief executives of semi-State organisations, of public service organisations and the salaries being paid to banks that are owned by the State when they are themselves being grossly over-paid in the public service?

And can we be confident of the integrity of reporting into tax evasion and avoidance by some of these stars when some of them might lose as a result (if the public humiliation of celebrity tax avoiders in the UK would be potentially reciprocated here)?

Sunnyisland

It's a public service broadcaster,none of them should earn more than 100K/200k, Marian finucane getting that sort of money for two pre recorded radio programs and Bryan dobson is a news reader We seem to have a habit in this country of over paying people who imo don't deserve it, yes politicians to.

Spanish Harlem

Never before has the wealth gap between the elites and the proles been so stark. Do not underestimate the power and influence of these "stars". They use their high profile positions in the media to mold and form public opinion. The perfect example being only hosting the three main parties' candidates in a recent RTÉ debate about the Meath East by-election. Non-party independent candidates are simply ignored.

Ryan Tubridy, for example, has been cradled by RTÉ since he graduated from UCD (and even before, according to his wikipedia entry. At age 12, he used to review books for a 2FM show, earning £25 per show). One wonders did his well-known Fianna Fáil connections bag him this job-for-life in a semi-state company. After all, FF have been the dominant party in this state's history, for better or worse.

One thing that annoys me about the RTÉ mafia is that there is no accountability. If a new TV show is failing, RTÉ simply move the host to another show rather than fire them. A perfect example being Craig Doyle who was shuffled from Tonight with Craig Doyle (2010) to The Panel (2011) to The Social (2011) to Craig Doyle Live (2012).

So what can we do to put an end to this abuse of tax money? Stop paying the TV license for for a start. Don't be blackmailed with the threat of jail. If nobody pays, they can't win. Number two, stop watching RTÉ. In this day and age when we have access to hundreds of satellite channels, I'm baffled as to why people still tune in to crap like the Late Late Show or Fair City every week. Creatures of habit maybe?

Maudi

realies wrote: »

It's a public service broadcaster,none of them should earn more than 100K/200k, Marian finucane getting that sort of money for two pre recorded radio programs and Bryan dobson is a news reader We seem to have a habit in this country of over paying people who imo don't deserve it, yes politicians to.

wow it takes almost four thousand !!people to buy a licence..just to pay kennys wages..

Irish Steve

Maudi wrote: »

wow it takes almost four thousand !!people to buy a licence..just to pay kennys wages..

So?

Have you ever sat and watched at close quarters how some of the live shows work, and what goes on in the background?

I have, several times, and what comes across is that Pat Kenny, among others, does his homework, and DOES know what he's talking about, and like it or not, where interviews are concerned, he does what it takes to get the results that are needed.

What a lot of people don't seem to recognise is that live TV doesn't just happen, there is a huge workload going on in the background, carefully scripted and choreographed in order to make sure that the end result is a program that works, and doesn't fall apart in the middle.

I've had the good fortune to spend some time talking to Pat one to one, and having done so, my respect for him has gone up considerably, primarily because he works, hard, at making sure he does the job he does in a competent and professional manner, and between the morning shows and Prime Time, he has a high workload, as the time actually on air is only a small part of what he does. He is also prepared to both listen and contribute, and does so in a very caring manner, which both surprised and pleased me greatly.

Yes, he has a large team working with him to make sure he's well informed, but he then spends the time to become well acquainted with the information the team give him, not just a top level skim, but you have to see him off camera to realise that.

Some, maybe many may not agree, but as far as I am concerned, the work Pat does on things like Prime Time is good, given the limitations that are imposed on RTE as the national broadcaster. I hope he continues for some time to come. He has the ability to draw out a nervous first time contributor while almost in the same breath slapping down a domineering politician who is only interested in hearing his own voice, and he manages to do both without causing offence, but you need to see it close up and personal to recognise the very clear skill with which he does it. I'd rather see Pat Kenny representing Ireland than some of the other Kenny's we keep hearing about.

And No, I'm not a member of either of the 2 main political parties, before that gets thrown into the pot.

Manach

To my mind, the issue is not the talent or the worthiness of those presenters. They are professional and for the most part do an excellent job. What is the issue is their salary. It bears no relation to market values. Being a Semi-state body funded by the taxpayer allows RTE like all such bodies literally pluck figures from the air, and decide them to be equitable wages. There is no reality check that would be imposed by the market. Given that there are hundreds of such agencies in Ireland, in the midst of one of worst recessions in recent Irish history , betokens something wrong in the ship of the Irish state.

p1akuw47h5r3it

I don't blame the individuals themselves. If I were in their position I would aim to get the best package I could. The fault is with whoever negotiates on behalf of RTE/The Government. it's up to them to walk in, say what they are being offered, and walk back out.

Most of the presenters on RTE imo are awful. Pat Kenny (bar the Late Late) being an exception. I think he's decent enough.

Tubridy, Duffy, Finucane etc. are all useless. Miriam O'Callaghan being especially bad!

Zombrex

Manach wrote: »

To my mind, the issue is not the talent or the worthiness of those presenters. They are professional and for the most part do an excellent job. What is the issue is their salary. It bears no relation to market values. Being a Semi-state body funded by the taxpayer allows RTE like all such bodies literally pluck figures from the air, and decide them to be equitable wages. There is no reality check that would be imposed by the market. Given that there are hundreds of such agencies in Ireland, in the midst of one of worst recessions in recent Irish history , betokens something wrong in the ship of the Irish state.

None of these people are employed by RTE, they are all private companies which are contracted by RTE. And they tell RTE what the cost will be, just like any contracting company. So it is in fact completely market forces. If you want Ryan Tubridy this is his rate. If you want Pat Kenny this is his rate.

You can argue that RTE shouldn't want Tubridy or Kenny in the first place, that they should walk away and get someone else, but then it isn't like Ireland is over flowing with television presenters. What ever we think about Tubridy (personally can't stand him) or Kenny (don't mind as much when he is doing reporting, terrible at things like the Late Late), they are extremely popular, so they have RTE over a barrel some what.

p1akuw47h5r3it

Zombrex wrote: »

None of these people are employed by RTE, they are all private companies which are contracted by RTE. And they tell RTE what the cost will be, just like any contracting company. So it is in fact completely market forces. If you want Ryan Tubridy this is his rate. If you want Pat Kenny this is his rate.

You can argue that RTE shouldn't want Tubridy or Kenny in the first place, that they should walk away and get someone else, but then it isn't like Ireland is over flowing with television presenters. What ever we think about Tubridy (personally can't stand him) or Kenny (don't mind as much when he is doing reporting, terrible at things like the Late Late), they are extremely popular, so they have RTE over a barrel some what.

Are they though? People are going to watch the Late Late, for example, more or less regardless of who the presenter is. It's an institution at this stage. It's the same with Radio.

Zombrex

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Are they though? People are going to watch the Late Late, for example, more or less regardless of who the presenter is. It's an institution at this stage. It's the same with Radio.

Well two points. Firstly there has never been more choice, so people are not going to watch or listen to RTE if there is something better on. This is why young people don't, because RTE does a poor job producing programmes for them.

Secondly, before anyone says RTE should be concerned about service not ratings, people actually want Kenny or Tubrity. They could let them go and replace them with someone else who costs a tenth of the price, but that person would a no body and the loyal viewers would be up in arms saying that RTE have ruined their fav programmes.

mikemac1

Maybe not.
The liveline thread in radio forum is one of the busiest threads on boards.

Joe Duffy is number 4 on that list and when he missed a few weeks over his car crash Philip Boucher Hayes came in and did an even better job.
Plenty wanted him to stay and take over the show.

I don't know what he earns, maybe 100k but it's a lot less then Joe and I don't think the ratings would suffer at all

michael999999

mikemac1 wrote: »

Maybe not.
The liveline thread in radio forum is one of the busiest threads on boards.

Joe Duffy is number 4 on that list and when he missed a few weeks over his car crash Philip Boucher Hayes came in and did an even better job.
Plenty wanted him to stay and take over the show

I don't know what he earns, maybe 100k but it's a lot less then Joe and I don't think the ratings would suffer at all

Duffy is a biased grump lately. Tje show really is running to further he's own agendas and ideas!

Mr.Micro

mikemac1 wrote: »

Maybe not.
The liveline thread in radio forum is one of the busiest threads on boards.

Joe Duffy is number 4 on that list and when he missed a few weeks over his car crash Philip Boucher Hayes came in and did an even better job.
Plenty wanted him to stay and take over the show.

I don't know what he earns, maybe 100k but it's a lot less then Joe and I don't think the ratings would suffer at all

RTE need to loosen up and be a bit more daring. Its like a closed shop to any new talent, just keep the cozy little pool they have and not let anyone else in.

Zombrex

mikemac1 wrote: »

Maybe not.
The liveline thread in radio forum is one of the busiest threads on boards.

Joe Duffy is number 4 on that list and when he missed a few weeks over his car crash Philip Boucher Hayes came in and did an even better job.
Plenty wanted him to stay and take over the show.

Plenty of people on the thread, or in Ireland in general?

Manach

Zombrex wrote: »

None of these people are employed by RTE, they are all private companies which are contracted by RTE. And they tell RTE what the cost will be, just like any contracting company. So it is in fact completely market forces. If you want Ryan Tubridy this is his rate. If you want Pat Kenny this is his rate.

Companies are indeed separate from the individuals who control them, hence the corporate veil. Companies have also certain attributes that make them better than sole traders including tax issues, liability and succession. However, just because these are properly formed entities in a negation with a state body does not make them market efficient.
Liberal states have one of their attributes an efficient market, which are based on the rational ability to maximise their most valuable use in order to realize efficiency. However as these presenters and RTE do not take into account their actual worth in the context of the market (TV3, ITV, BBC etc) and if they would have the self same worth there, the rates they the receive does not reflect market reality. Instead it resembles an old-fashioned command economy world view with a paternalistic attitude to what/how people should watch entertainment. Instead today's Ireland has a a multitude of choices of what to view and on what to view it on, with taxes like the broadcast charge and attempt to prop up an outdated monolithic system,

T runner

Irish Steve wrote: »

So?

Have you ever sat and watched at close quarters how some of the live shows work, and what goes on in the background?

I have, several times, and what comes across is that Pat Kenny, among others, does his homework, and DOES know what he's talking about, and like it or not, where interviews are concerned, he does what it takes to get the results that are needed.

What a lot of people don't seem to recognise is that live TV doesn't just happen, there is a huge workload going on in the background, carefully scripted and choreographed in order to make sure that the end result is a program that works, and doesn't fall apart in the middle.


I've had the good fortune to spend some time talking to Pat one to one, and having done so, my respect for him has gone up considerably, primarily because he works, hard, at making sure he does the job he does in a competent and professional manner, and between the morning shows and Prime Time, he has a high workload, as the time actually on air is only a small part of what he does. He is also prepared to both listen and contribute, and does so in a very caring manner, which both surprised and pleased me greatly.

Yes, he has a large team working with him to make sure he's well informed, but he then spends the time to become well acquainted with the information the team give him, not just a top level skim, but you have to see him off camera to realise that.

Some, maybe many may not agree, but as far as I am concerned, the work Pat does on things like Prime Time is good, given the limitations that are imposed on RTE as the national broadcaster. I hope he continues for some time to come. He has the ability to draw out a nervous first time contributor while almost in the same breath slapping down a domineering politician who is
only interested in hearing his own voice, and he manages to do both without causing offence, but you need to see it close up and personal to recognise the very clear skill with which he does it. I'd rather see Pat Kenny representing Ireland than some of the other Kenny's we keep hearing about.

And No, I'm not a member of either of the 2 main political parties, before that gets thrown into the pot.

I guess working hard would be a minimum requirement. How good someone is in Pats position might be judged by their fairness and level headedness. His tendency to lose his temper is becoming more marked. His fairness in the presidential debate was questiomed when the favoured candidate michael D (im a supporter) seemed to get a limousine ride through the debate, compared to the rough and tumble of the path pat layed for his competitors. I have noticed a tendency to allow his own views bias the content of some shows. A recent show on travellers was particularly biased. An unchallenged comment by an audience member calling travellers innately bad, was particularly galling. No matter what your personal opinion a minimum requirement of a fair debate is fairness. He may work hard but there are fundamental pilars of presentation that need to exist for the description "good" to apply to a presenter and imo these are lacking. This isnt that pertinent to the op however, i was just answering your point.

The point is can pat etc argue for reductions in high level public sector pay, all shoulders to the wheel etc when the cut he takes from his public body is so massive and when his shoulder is ceryainly not against the wheel. Can we take these stars seriously when their rhetoric clearly does no apply to themselves?

If the likes of pat kenny cares so much why is all this care directed against public sector workers and social welfare recipients. Why has rte never seriously investigated tax avoidance in ireland unlike their uk counter parts? Is it because 7 out of 10 of these stars benefit from a tax avoifance scheme themseles?

When the very people charged with ifentifying and publicising dodgy tax avoidance and bloated piblic sector salaries are themselves guilty of both then we have a problem. These stars positions are clearly untenable.

Irish Steve

OK, let's clarify something here for a moment, in that it's relevant, and significant. PK the presenter is not the same as PK the person, in that when on air, as a presenter, while it may not show on air, the presenter is being constantly updated and "directed" by the program director, who can and does change the direction of the discussion for all manner of reasons, some of which include problems of the charter that a public service broadcaster operates under.

I've seen PK in action in the studio, and had the pleasure of an off air conversation with him after a recent broadcast, which brought home very clearly that he is a very well informed and capable presenter, and also, at the same time, a considerate and decent man.

25 years ago, just at the end of the last recession, the banks were paying a small fortune for programmers and related IT services to get them into the insurance market, they recognised a niche they were not present it that had significant profit implications, so for competitive reasons, they spent massive sums on getting in to the market as rapidly as possible. Due to an accident of timing, I was in a place to be one of a very few people worldwide that had the necessary experience on the hardware to be able to become involved in those projects, and for a short while, I was earning very good money indeed.

Was I wrong to take what was on offer?
Could I predict what the future would bring?
Were the banks wrong to be offering incredible money to get into a new market for them?

Who knows, both then and now.

I do know that the banks didn't lose the run of themselves in the last recent few years, they lost their sense a lot earlier, but no one recognised it at the time.

The same applies to the broadcasters, they offer a service, or a "product" and a rate for it is negotiated by the people that want the service. They then get whatever is agreed for the service.

The difference, and it's a very big one, between the broadcasters, or the hospital consultants, or any other highly paid trade, and there are many, is that all of them, APART from the politicians, do not set their pay rate, they are agreed by some form of external control system. That control may well be by demand, if the price is too high, an alternative is found or used, but the controls are there.

The politicians are unique in that the vote for their own package and benefits, and we've seen all too clearly just how self interested they are when it comes to things like pensions for short term service.

If I work for a company for 5 years, and the company closes, I get nothing other than maybe statutory redundancy. A Minister out on his ear after an election gets all manner of pensions and allowances, some for life, despite having fallen from favour. That is morally offensive, and even more so because the people that vote for the politicians can do NOTHING to change it. The politicians go into politics knowing before they go in that they are not in a job for life unless they perform, and the TOTAL package should reflect that.

There are plenty of other anomalies in the system, which are way beyond this thread, but in terms of trying to keep on track, if RTE are prepared to pay a rate for a job, then that is their decision. They pay what they can negotiate with the people that they want as their "visible" presence in the market, and for whatever reasons, people either watch/listen to the shows they provide, or they don't, and let's face it, for the majority of people in the country, there are now plenty of alternative channels to those provided by RTE, so that presents a challenge to the broadcaster, they have to earn the additional income they need from advertising to ensure that they can provide the service that their charter requires them to provide, as the basic Government funding does not cover the total cost of what they do.

There may well be a case for looking at the RTE charter, but that's not what this thread is about.

If the broadcasters were not generating revenue for RTE, there would be changes, and over time, there have indeed been changes, including changes to the remuneration of the top broadcasters. I suspect that will continue, but it is unlikely to be influenced by discussions on boards.ie, and it's also unlikely to be significantly influenced by comments from politicians.

OneOfThem Stumbled

T runner wrote: »

3. Marian Finucane – €492,000

Marian Finucane works c. 4 hours a week, minus some holidays.

She says that she also does some research for her programme, but she also has staff afaik.

She's a decent enough presenter, but wouldn't around €20,000 be a more reasonable figure than nearly half a million? :pac:

This whole business about being afraid that our magnificent RTE presenters will flee to foreign shores if paid a reasonable rate seems unreasonable. It's not really a good basis for pay rates, particularly when it's fairly dubious that individuals so identified with Ireland and current Irish affairs would be particularly employable in foreign media.

VinLieger

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

Marian Finucane works c. 4 hours a week, minus some holidays.

She says that she also does some research for her programme, but she also has staff afaik.

She's a decent enough presenter, but wouldn't around €20,000 be a more reasonable figure than nearly half a million? :pac:

This whole business about being afraid that our magnificent RTE presenters will flee to foreign shores if paid a reasonable rate seems unreasonable. It's not really a good basis for pay rates, particularly when it's fairly dubious that individuals so identified with Ireland and current Irish affairs would be particularly employable in foreign media.

Exactly the amount shes paid for the fraction of work she does is ridiculous, either she does more shows, different broadcasts or her salary is cut to reflect work done. Of course the excuse youll hear from her is the market has set a value, id like to see another radio station that isnt subsidised by the state pay her that much for the same amount of work.
The salaries her and Joe get are the most farcical of the bunch considering the paltry hours they actually work while their staff most likely do the majority of the research.

newbie2

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

Marian Finucane works c. 4 hours a week, minus some holidays..

That's like saying Robin Van Persie is earning £180,000 for 90 minutes work. He doesn't - niether does she.

VinLieger

newbie2 wrote: »

That's like saying Robin Van Persie is earning £180,000 for 90 minutes work. He doesn't - niether does she.

She does 4 hours live broadcasting a week, how much research and preparation do you imagine she needs to do for that that isnt done by her staff? Enough for her to be paid what is now 300,000 a year?

Also lol coming into a thread about overpaid people and citing a football star as an analogy, possibly the most ridiculously overpaid people on the planet

mikom

newbie2 wrote: »

That's like saying Robin Van Persie is earning £180,000 for 90 minutes work. He doesn't - niether does she.

I'm not forced to pay a percentage of Robin Van Persies wages every time I buy a football.
Your move.........

newbie2

I'm not getting into a right or wrong argument of the TV licence, I'm just pointing out that argueing that these presenters 'only work x amount of hours per week for huge salaries' without the facts is wrong.

VinLieger

newbie2 wrote: »

I'm not getting into a right or wrong argument of the TV licence, I'm just pointing out that argueing that these presenters 'only work x amount of hours per week for huge salaries' without the facts is wrong.

Okay we dont have the exact facts but its easy to figure out that she works nowhere near a reasonable amount of hours to be getting paid what she is being paid

newbie2

VinLieger wrote: »

Okay we dont have the exact facts but its easy to figure out that she works nowhere near a reasonable amount of hours to be getting paid what she is being paid

based on what?

VinLieger

newbie2 wrote: »

based on what?

Based on she has a research staff and she does 4 hours of live broadcasting a week. How many hours prep do you think she needs to do? I dont know exactly but im pretty certain its nowhere near enough to justify the pay shes on.

newbie2

How many research staff does she have?

You keep saying that you don't know exactly how much work she does but it can't justify what she is getting paid. Without hard facts, you actually do not have an arguement.


I'm speculating, but each item discussed on the programme is discussed for about 20 minutes. There's 4 hours which is 16 items. If you spend an average of 3 hours researching each item, then you work for 52 hours per week with no breaks.

Fighting Irish

mikom wrote: »

I'm not forced to pay a percentage of Robin Van Persies wages every time I buy a football.
Your move.........

stop changing the argument :rolleyes:

mikom

newbie2 wrote: »

How many research staff does she have?

You keep saying that you don't know exactly how much work she does but it can't justify what she is getting paid. Without hard facts, you actually do not have an arguement.


I'm speculating, but each item discussed on the programme is discussed for about 20 minutes. There's 4 hours which is 16 items. If you spend an average of 3 hours researching each item, then you work for 52 hours per week with no breaks.

She has a minimum of two research staff who are mentioned at the tail end of each show.
Wanna know the kicker.............. they are paid by RTE via the licence fee....... seperate from Marians wage.
The researchers work for RTE, not Marian Finucane.

Zombrex

Manach wrote: »

However as these presenters and RTE do not take into account their actual worth in the context of the market (TV3, ITV, BBC etc) and if they would have the self same worth there, the rates they the receive does not reflect market reality.

On what basis are you saying they don't do that?

I don't know how it works, but I'm imagining that RTE negotiate with the company representing Kenny and arrive at a figure they both agree to. After all Kenny doesn't need to work, he could just as easily "retire", he has the money. And RTE doesn't have unlimited amounts of money to spend on Kenny. He could demand 4 million a year, but he isn't going to get it.

I'm not following how you think this isn't the market at work.

VinLieger

newbie2 wrote: »

How many research staff does she have?

You keep saying that you don't know exactly how much work she does but it can't justify what she is getting paid. Without hard facts, you actually do not have an arguement.


I'm speculating, but each item discussed on the programme is discussed for about 20 minutes. There's 4 hours which is 16 items. If you spend an average of 3 hours researching each item, then you work for 52 hours per week with no breaks.

Fair enough i dont have hard facts but in my speculation she would do an hours research per item not including research staff, which are usually mentioned at the end of a show so will try to find that one out later, this would equate to 16 hours work per week plus the 4 hours broadcast.

Its really impossible to analyse it but there are many other broadcasters who do 2 hours live work daily instead of just once a week, which from looking at her wikipedia page seems to be actually all she does as her show is only on for 2 hours on saturday? Correct me here but its the only specifics i could find on her current schedule

VinLieger

Zombrex wrote: »

On what basis are you saying they don't do that?

I don't know how it works, but I'm imagining that RTE negotiate with the company representing Kenny and arrive at a figure they both agree to. After all Kenny doesn't need to work, he could just as easily "retire", he has the money. And RTE doesn't have unlimited amounts of money to spend on Kenny. He could demand 4 million a year, but he isn't going to get it.

I'm not following how you think this isn't the market at work.

Because if he went anywhere else in the irish market he wouldnt get anywhere near that salary, the only reason they can pay him that much is because of the massive subsidising RTE receives. Its a false economy

OneOfThem Stumbled

newbie2 wrote: »

How many research staff does she have?

You keep saying that you don't know exactly how much work she does but it can't justify what she is getting paid. Without hard facts, you actually do not have an arguement.


I'm speculating, but each item discussed on the programme is discussed for about 20 minutes. There's 4 hours which is 16 items. If you spend an average of 3 hours researching each item, then you work for 52 hours per week with no breaks.

Spending 3 hours researching 20 minutes live programme. Hmm?

If we were talking about teachers would we be talking about a) the hours they work or b) the hypothetical amount of hours they spend researching their classes, marking homework, and travelling to work? Teachers also don't have staff to do their work for them.


The Van Persie argument is a bit silly. Footballers aren't public servants. Not only are they not paid through taxes, the market dictates their wage.

newbie2

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

Spending 3 hours researching 20 minutes live programme. Hmm?

20 minute item

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

If we were talking about teachers would we be talking about a) the hours they work or b) the hypothetical amount of hours they spend researching their classes, marking homework, and travelling to work? Teachers also don't have staff to do their work for them.

We're not talking about teachers

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

The Van Persie argument is a bit silly. Footballers aren't public servants. Not only are they not paid through taxes, the market dictates their wage.

RTE presenters are not public servants. They are not paid through taxes. They work for a semi state company which is partly funded by a licence fee. Some of them are sole traders/independent companies that are employed by RTE to create/enhance other revenue streams such as advetising.

clashburke

newbie2 wrote: »

RTE presenters are not public servants. They are not paid through taxes. They work for a semi state company which is partly funded by a licence fee. Some of them are sole traders/independent companies that are employed by RTE to create/enhance other revenue streams such as advetising.

I would call the TV license an indirect form of taxation

OneOfThem Stumbled

clashburke wrote: »

I would call the TV license an indirect form of taxation

At the moment... technically... yes. But maybe as soon as next year it will be mandatory for every household to pay it. Not terribly indirect then.

newbie2 wrote: »

20 minute item

Yup. 3 hours research for 20 minutes live broadcast. That's the guestimate.

newbie2 wrote: »

We're not talking about teachers

Oh no, because if we were talking about teachers; who work 9-4.30 5 days a week (excluding holidays) you would be talking about a salary between €30,904 and €59,359.

newbie2 wrote: »

RTE presenters are not public servants. They are not paid through taxes. They work for a semi state company which is partly funded by a licence fee.

The licence fee is managed by the state, and as I said above, will soon be lumped in with property tax. The state has decided to have adverts on RTE radio and television as a means of bolstering revenue.

newbie2 wrote: »

Some of them are sole traders/independent companies that are employed by RTE to create/enhance other revenue streams such as advetising.

Wut.

VinLieger

newbie2 wrote: »

Some of them are sole traders/independent companies that are employed by RTE to create/enhance other revenue streams such as advetising.

Very true and that makes me curious as to how much George Hook is paid by newstalk, a man who up until they hired him had NO experience in hosting his own live topical radio broadcast. If anyone was an advertising grab he was. Do you think his salary comes even anywhere close to Marian Finucanes? I doubt it and his show is possibly the most successful one on their station.

ShowMeTheCash

There is a higher moral point to be made here, talking about how good a job Pat Kenny does or Ryan Tub is totally irrelevant!

Some of these stars maybe have RTE eating out of their hands but their salaries are shocking and shameful in today's economy!

Their salaries do not magically come into being from nowhere, they are paid for and subsidized by the people of this country. However the avenue is to how they get paid, TV license or otherwise this country is on it's knees.... And I would agree on boycotting TV license and or watching or listening to these individuals at all, until some level of fairness is restored....

Gripe of footballers salaries is more a world-wide phenomenon, but essentially the same recourse applies... Stop watching and stop going to the matches... In essence these people are put on pedestals that require our cooperation... But we do not need to cooperate!

Unfortunately individuals are generally intelligent, as a mob we are sheep

Zombrex

VinLieger wrote: »

Because if he went anywhere else in the irish market he wouldnt get anywhere near that salary, the only reason they can pay him that much is because of the massive subsidising RTE receives. Its a false economy

No, what you are describing is false economics because that only works in a system where there are lots of Kennys, and if RTE want a Pat Kenny they simply go to the cheapest company offering him. But of course there is only one Pat Kenny, it is not like choosing a tooth paste. The choice is not band X Pat Kenny vs brand Y Pat Kenny. The choice is Pat Kenny or not Pat Kenny.

Pat Kenny has a unique product that you can only get from him. It then becomes a question of what is the maximum RTE are prepared to pay for that, and what is the minimum Pat Kenny is prepared to work for.

Its all pretty simple economics, I'm not sure why everyone is having such a hard time with the concept or why they feel the need to introduce conspiracy theories. Trust me RTE has zero interest in spending any more on anything, be it a new PC for the receptionist or Pat Kenny's salary, than they have to.

K-9

Graham Norton earned £2.5 Million in one year so about £5 Million for two years.

Daily Mail aricle, didn't put in the headline as the reason he got a 40% rise was he took over the prime time Johnathon Ross slot.

Ross is on about £2 Million, £4 Million over 2 years.

The RTE pay scales seem a bit excessive considering that, I'd have thought something like €500,000 over two years would be fair for the top stars.

K-9

Zombrex wrote: »

No, what you are describing is false economics because that only works in a system where there are lots of Kennys, and if RTE want a Pat Kenny they simply go to the cheapest company offering him. But of course there is only one Pat Kenny, it is not like choosing a tooth paste. The choice is not band X Pat Kenny vs brand Y Pat Kenny. The choice is Pat Kenny or not Pat Kenny.

Pat Kenny has a unique product that you can only get from him. It then becomes a question of what is the maximum RTE are prepared to pay for that, and what is the minimum Pat Kenny is prepared to work for.

Its all pretty simple economics, I'm not sure why everyone is having such a hard time with the concept or why they feel the need to introduce conspiracy theories. Trust me RTE has zero interest in spending any more on anything, be it a new PC for the receptionist or Pat Kenny's salary, than they have to.

I suppose the point is, who is going to pay Pat Kenny that type of money? I doubt TV3 would have the budget and I doubt BBC or ITV would either, he is only well known here. If Tubridy gets a permanent slot with BBC radio RTE might be worried about losing him, but then there is only so much RTE can offer in comparison to the Beeb.

Zombrex

VinLieger wrote: »

Very true and that makes me curious as to how much George Hook is paid by newstalk, a man who up until they hired him had NO experience in hosting his own live topical radio broadcast. If anyone was an advertising grab he was. Do you think his salary comes even anywhere close to Marian Finucanes? I doubt it and his show is possibly the most successful one on their station.

He is, but then Newstalk listening figures don't come close to RTE's. Hooks programme gets less than a third of the listeners as Finucanes does, which isn't even the most popular show in the country (it is third, behind Morning Ireland and Liveline). In figures Hook is behind Today FM favorites D'Arcy and Dempsey.

Which is not a criticism on Hook, but you make it sound like he has the top show in the country, when in fact it is something like 10.

Zombrex

K-9 wrote: »

I suppose the point is, who is going to pay Pat Kenny that type of money? I doubt TV3 would have the budget and I doubt BBC or ITV would either, he is only well known here.

But again that is missing the point. Kenny is not an unemployed unskilled worker looking for a job in Spar desperate to feed his family of 6 kids. His options are work for RTE, or do what ever the feck he wants with all the money he has. He has no financial need to work, he will work if he can be bothered and if RTE pay him enough money.

You are all applying the wrong economic model to this. This is not a situation where you have 50,000 identical 9 year old queuing up out side the local Nike factory desperately hoping that they will be hired so they don't starve to death.

Pat Kenny does not need RTE in any serious financial sense. Sure he apparently really enjoys it, and I imagine there is a pride aspect of it for him. But he isn't going to starve if he walks away. He could quit tomorrow and spend the rest of his life playing golf and writing books and he would be perfectly fine.

On the other hand RTE has never faced so much competition for listeners and viewers, they do need to hold on to their popular assets in order to distinguish themselves from the other broadcasters.

cassette50

Zombrex wrote: »

But again that is missing the point. Kenny is not an unemployed unskilled worker looking for a job in Spar desperate to feed his family of 6 kids. His options are work for RTE, or do what ever the feck he wants with all the money he has. He has no financial need to work, he will work if he can be bothered and if RTE pay him enough money.

You are all applying the wrong economic model to this. This is not a situation where you have 50,000 identical 9 year old queuing up out side the local Nike factory desperately hoping that they will be hired so they don't starve to death.

Pat Kenny does not need RTE in any serious financial sense. Sure he apparently really enjoys it, and I imagine there is a pride aspect of it for him. But he isn't going to starve if he walks away. He could quit tomorrow and spend the rest of his life playing golf and writing books and he would be perfectly fine.

On the other hand RTE has never faced so much competition for listeners and viewers, they do need to hold on to their popular assets in order to distinguish themselves from the other broadcasters.

Not according to Pat...he can't afford to retire...so he does need RTE...

http://http://www.independent.ie/woman/celeb-news/pat-kenny-says-he-cant-afford-to-retire-as-he-reveals-his-regrets-over-turning-down-uk-work-28953798.html

K-9

Zombrex wrote: »

But again that is missing the point. Kenny is not an unemployed unskilled worker looking for a job in Spar desperate to feed his family of 6 kids. His options are work for RTE, or do what ever the feck he wants with all the money he has. He has no financial need to work, he will work if he can be bothered and if RTE pay him enough money.

You are all applying the wrong economic model to this. This is not a situation where you have 50,000 identical 9 year old queuing up out side the local Nike factory desperately hoping that they will be hired so they don't starve to death.

Pat Kenny does not need RTE in any serious financial sense. Sure he apparently really enjoys it, and I imagine there is a pride aspect of it for him. But he isn't going to starve if he walks away. He could quit tomorrow and spend the rest of his life playing golf and writing books and he would be perfectly fine.

On the other hand RTE has never faced so much competition for listeners and viewers, they do need to hold on to their popular assets in order to distinguish themselves from the other broadcasters.

I'm not employing the wrong model, I put up the pay levels of Norton and Ross who can also just not take their new contracts and just leave, all these stars are well paid. I know there isn't a conveyor belt of stars who could present the LLS and the same applies in England, Ross got a big contract despite the scandal, he didn't have to take it, but stars like these usually want to work and keep being the star.

The difference in Ireland is we don't have big money competition to RTE, like an ITV. I'd say the best comparison is Channel 4 and BBC, TV3 and RTE.

ShowMeTheCash

K-9 wrote: »

I'm not employing the wrong model, I put up the pay levels of Norton and Ross who can also just not take their new contracts and just leave, all these stars are well paid. I know there isn't a conveyor belt of stars who could present the LLS and the same applies in England, Ross got a big contract despite the scandal, he didn't have to take it, but stars like these usually want to work and keep being the star.

The difference in Ireland is we don't have big money competition to RTE, like an ITV. I'd say the best comparison is Channel 4 and BBC, TV3 and RTE.

You are out of your mind, you are comparing us a nation of 4 million to the UK a nation of around 64 million people... ITV, channel 4 do not get anything from TV licensing either, they are essentially private corporations that need to turn a profit, but advertising to 64 million people can usually turn over a large revenue.

You are correct about one thing, RTE has no real competition, so what we consider talent is never challenged... We simply accept it!
Our media and politicians are essentially are a club of people dictating what we do then manipulating us into thinking its OK!

michael999999

In fairness, pat kenny is the only one worth anywhere near the money hes getting. Tubs finucane and duffy could all be sacked and not missed!

Zulu

T runner wrote: »

Also, All but 3 of the top 10 avail of a legal Tax avoidance scheme where they are paid by a yearly contract to a company they set up and are only liable for the amount they draw down as salary per annum, expenses can be offset against tax.

You mean like every other contractor in the country? This isn't a "tax avoidance scheme", it's exactly how honest taxpayers pay their taxes when they are self employed contractors.

...but don't let that little fact get in the way of tabloidesque mob mentality. :rolleyes:

K-9

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

You are out of your mind, you are comparing us a nation of 4 million to the UK a nation of around 64 million people... ITV, channel 4 do not get anything from TV licensing either, they are essentially private corporations that need to turn a profit, but advertising to 64 million people can usually turn over a large revenue.

You are correct about one thing, RTE has no real competition, so what we consider talent is never challenged... We simply accept it!
Our media and politicians are essentially are a club of people dictating what we do then manipulating us into thinking its OK!

You think I was suggesting RTE pay that type of money?

I said something like €500,000 over 2 years would be a fair comparison.

Zombrex

cassette50 wrote: »

Not according to Pat...he can't afford to retire...so he does need RTE...

Yeah I would put that into the Bertie doesn't have a bank account category.

Zombrex

Zulu wrote: »

You mean like every other contractor in the country? This isn't a "tax avoidance scheme", it's exactly how honest taxpayers pay their taxes when they are self employed contractors.

...but don't let that little fact get in the way of tabloidesque mob mentality. :rolleyes:

The clue should have been in "legal tax avoidance scheme" ... so not a tax avoidance scheme then :P