I haven't received property tax letter yet

Supercell

My old man received his property tax letter on Wednesday 6th but as of today we still haven't received ours.
I thought these we all already posted out over a week ago so am wondering what I should do ?
Has anyone else not received the letter yet?
An Post are supposed to deliver within a couple of days nationwide and its far past that now here so am a little concerned.

miamee

No sign of mine yet either, I'm in Dublin 15.

Ogham

Less than half gone out yet. Give them a chance - there's 1.6million of them - that takes a lot of time to printing and fold and envelope.
http://www.moneyguideireland.com/half-of-property-tax-forms-issued.html

stevedublin

Can't wait to get mine, I'm really looking forward to burning it.

Supercell

Ah thanks guys, I was under the impression they were all bulk mailed at the same time.

monkeypants

Check any other addresses that you've had in the past. Our letter went to the wife at the mother in law's address. She hasn't lived there since early 2006. For the record, we paid the Household Charge, so they have our details.

I think this operation is being run very badly.

Cathmandooo

We got one during the week addressed to the owner from 7years ago, we've paid the household charge and nppr in our names attached to this property so you'd think they'd know who owns it! Have to stick the letter back in the post box with a 'not at this address', who knows when we'll get our letter now

Victor

monkeypants wrote: »

Check any other addresses that you've had in the past. Our letter went to the wife at the mother in law's address. She hasn't lived there since early 2006. For the record, we paid the Household Charge, so they have our details.

I think this operation is being run very badly.

This may be down to your wife having post going to the MIL's address. Another letter may be winging it's way to your address.

Supercell

Cathmandooo wrote: »

We got one during the week addressed to the owner from 7years ago, we've paid the household charge and nppr in our names attached to this property so you'd think they'd know who owns it! Have to stick the letter back in the post box with a 'not at this address', who knows when we'll get our letter now

Our names are not updated on the land registry yet but the sale was register on the Property Price register so I assume they have our names.

I wonder what people should do if the mail is addressed to the last owners?, legally you aren't allow open someone else's mail..even if it should have your name on it!

UDP

Supercell wrote: »

I wonder what people should do if the mail is addressed to the last owners?, legally you aren't allow open someone else's mail..even if it should have your name on it!

I don't know if it matters since the person the letter is addressed to's PPSN number will get charged the amount at which time they will contact the revenue office to get the amount removed while telling them who it should be charged too thus the money will be collected off the correct person one way or another. It is just delaying the inevitable. Plus people are being told to contact the revenue office if they have not received a letter.

I received mine the other day in D15.

Miaireland

My Dad's came to his business rather than home. I know he paid his household charge and the receipts (they sent many of them) were sent to home.

I know lots of my friends have not got theirs yet.

Ogham

Cathmandooo wrote: »

We got one during the week addressed to the owner from 7years ago, we've paid the household charge and nppr in our names attached to this property so you'd think they'd know who owns it! Have to stick the letter back in the post box with a 'not at this address', who knows when we'll get our letter now

To save any confusion you can contact Revenue to tell them you are liable. They will find out eventually - so you may as well do it now so you can spread the payments if you want to. Better than being hit with a bill in December?

efb

Mine was online as I'm registered for PAYE Online. It was painless.

L1011

efb wrote: »

Mine was online as I'm registered for PAYE Online. It was painless.

Whereas I'm registered for PAYE Online, have used it in the past two months, and haven't received anything via email or post.

monkeypants

Victor wrote: »

This may be down to your wife having post going to the MIL's address. Another letter may be winging it's way to your address.

No, all post got redirected in 2006. There may be another letter coming this way, I'll keep an eye out.

efb

MYOB wrote: »

Whereas I'm registered for PAYE Online, have used it in the past two months, and haven't received anything via email or post.

It's in PAYE online not your own email

L1011

efb wrote: »

It's in PAYE online not your own email

That's a fairly useful way to ensure people don't actually notice it...

Will go dig up my PIN later.

irish bloke

Supercell wrote: »

My old man received his property tax letter on Wednesday 6th but as of today we still haven't received ours.
I thought these we all already posted out over a week ago so am wondering what I should do ?
Has anyone else not received the letter yet?
An Post are supposed to deliver within a couple of days nationwide and its far past that now here so am a little concerned.

I think that means you don't have to pay it

relax carry on

God doesn't anyone bother to read the Revenue website. It's pretty much the first thing mentioned.

Revenue will write to residential property owners over a four week period commencing on 11 March enclosing an LPT Return and a detailed guide to Local Property Tax. Due to the volume of correspondence involved, the distribution process will take approximately four weeks.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/lpt/index.html

Peanut2011

relax carry on wrote: »

God doesn't anyone bother to read the Revenue website. It's pretty much the first thing mentioned.

Revenue will write to residential property owners over a four week period commencing on 11 March enclosing an LPT Return and a detailed guide to Local Property Tax. Due to the volume of correspondence involved, the distribution process will take approximately four weeks.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/lpt/index.html

They are sending them to the address they have you registered under for your tax returns, even if the house you own is a different address.

I've seen example!

Technoprisoner

Peanut2011 wrote: »

They are sending them to the address they have you registered under for your tax returns, even if the house you own is a different address.

I've seen example!

no they are not...they haven't a clue who owns what so they are randomly sending out letters

i received an lpt form/notice/bill and i dont own a house...unfortunately im still living with my parents but none the less they think i owe them money for a property. They haven't an iota who owes them money they are just randomly sending out letters

Peanut2011

Technoprisoner wrote: »

no they are not...they haven't a clue who owns what so they are randomly sending out letters

i received an lpt form/notice/bill and i dont own a house...unfortunately im still living with my parents but none the less they think i owe them money for a property. They haven't an iota who owes them money they are just randomly sending out letters

if you say so.

Technoprisoner

Peanut2011 wrote: »

if you say so.

oh it is very true. the gob****es dont know what is going on...just like the household charge....they did not know who did and did not pay that either. There were story's of civil servants knocking on doors last year to check if people were registered to vote..oh and while we are here...have you paid you household charge? lol

murphaph

Technoprisoner wrote: »

no they are not...they haven't a clue who owns what so they are randomly sending out letters

i received an lpt form/notice/bill and i dont own a house...unfortunately im still living with my parents but none the less they think i owe them money for a property. They haven't an iota who owes them money they are just randomly sending out letters

But if they know you are liable but have a different address for tax returns, then it'll go there. I know, I got mine this way.

relax carry on

Technoprisoner wrote: »

no they are not...they haven't a clue who owns what so they are randomly sending out letters

i received an lpt form/notice/bill and i dont own a house...unfortunately im still living with my parents but none the less they think i owe them money for a property. They haven't an iota who owes them money they are just randomly sending out letters

Again if you read the booklet it explains.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/lpt/local-property-tax-guide.pdf

6. I have received a Return but I am not the liable person, what do I have to do?
Because Revenue has compiled a Register of residential properties from various sources, it may contain errors in relation to the ownership of some properties. If you receive a Return and you consider that you are not the liable person for the property, or that the property is not a residential property (see Question 2), you should inform Revenue by writing to: LPT Branch, P.O. Box 1, Limerick within 30 days of the date of the enclosed letter and include:
● The name(s), address(es) and PPSN(s) of the liable person(s).
● The reason(s) why you consider you are not the liable person or why the property is not a residential property.
● Whatever supporting documentation (copies are sufficient) may be relevant, e.g. copy of a lease agreement if you are a tenant; proof of sale of the property before 1 May 2013 etc.
Based on this information Revenue will consider your claim and make a decision on the matter. It is important that you contact Revenue to correct our Register because in the absence of any correction, you are liable to pay the tax.

Miss Lockhart

Has anyone else found that the amount on the letter is totally different than the estimate from the website?

Everyone I know has been pushed up a band in the letter compared to the website. That's more accurate for some but even less accurate for others.

I know you can self evaluate, and I will, but I'm just wondering if any other areas are being totally changed from the website estimate.

monkeypants

Amount on the letter is completely different from the website. To the point that I wonder why they bothered with the website at all other than to spend their offered budget. But it doesn't matter what the letter or the website says according to Revenue, because it's up to you to value the house and act accordingly. No responsibility whatsoever.

Peanut2011

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

Has anyone else found that the amount on the letter is totally different than the estimate from the website?

I personally think that is there to catch out the people who do not reply / respond as they say they will chase you for the amount stated if you do not respond.

Ogham

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

Has anyone else found that the amount on the letter is totally different than the estimate from the website?

Everyone I know has been pushed up a band in the letter compared to the website. That's more accurate for some but even less accurate for others.

I know you can self evaluate, and I will, but I'm just wondering if any other areas are being totally changed from the website estimate.

The letter is based on an average for all properties in the area - the website was more specific to your property type (both are guides)

Explained here http://www.moneyguideireland.com/property-tax-letter-estimates-differ-from-valuation-guide.html

Supercell

Ogham wrote: »

The letter is based on an average for all properties in the area - the website was more specific to your property type (both are guides)

Explained here http://www.moneyguideireland.com/property-tax-letter-estimates-differ-from-valuation-guide.html

I don't buy that explanation either.
The estate I live in has bungalows, semi's and detached two story houses, all valued at the same band on the website, if that's house specific I'll eat my hat. The true values vary hugely looking at the Property Price Register which is what you would expect for the different types of property.

I'll be going with the lower of the two or what a similar style house sold for in the last couple of years in this estate - whatever is lowest.

Miss Lockhart

Supercell wrote: »

I don't buy that explanation either.
The estate I live in has bungalows, semi's and detached two story houses, all valued at the same band on the website, if that's house specific I'll eat my hat. The true values vary hugely looking at the Property Price Register which is what you would expect for the different types of property.

I'll be going with the lower of the two or what a similar style house sold for in the last couple of years in this estate - whatever is lowest.

That doesn't sound right. Are you selecting the correct property type (bungalow, terrace, detached etc) before clicking on your estate?

Technoprisoner

murphaph wrote: »

But if they know you are liable but have a different address for tax returns, then it'll go there. I know, I got mine this way.

but i am NOT liable!!!!! i dont own a property anywhere in ireland...they are clutching at straws in the hope they get lucky and send it to the correct person...there are news reports of 17 year olds getting a property tax bill

Technoprisoner

relax carry on wrote: »

Again if you read the booklet it explains.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/lpt/local-property-tax-guide.pdf

6. I have received a Return but I am not the liable person, what do I have to do?
Because Revenue has compiled a Register of residential properties from various sources, it may contain errors in relation to the ownership of some properties. If you receive a Return and you consider that you are not the liable person for the property, or that the property is not a residential property (see Question 2), you should inform Revenue by writing to: LPT Branch, P.O. Box 1, Limerick within 30 days of the date of the enclosed letter and include:
● The name(s), address(es) and PPSN(s) of the liable person(s).
● The reason(s) why you consider you are not the liable person or why the property is not a residential property.
● Whatever supporting documentation (copies are sufficient) may be relevant, e.g. copy of a lease agreement if you are a tenant; proof of sale of the property before 1 May 2013 etc.
Based on this information Revenue will consider your claim and make a decision on the matter. It is important that you contact Revenue to correct our Register because in the absence of any correction, you are liable to pay the tax.

im sorry...none of that will be happening...they can do there job themselves and find out who owns the property

Ogham

Technoprisoner wrote: »

im sorry...none of that will be happening...they can do there job themselves and find out who owns the property

I guess your parents own the house and Revenue have associated you with the address maybe because you have paid tax from that address in the recent past?

If you can't be bothered to tell them who owns it they will just chase you for the money. It's all in the legislation. Save yourself the future hassle and just tell them who owns it. (If you don't and you are working your employer will get instructed to tell them to deduct it from your wages because you haven't paid it.)

Technoprisoner

Ogham wrote: »

I guess your parents own the house and Revenue have associated you with the address maybe because you have paid tax from that address in the recent past?

If you can't be bothered to tell them who owns it they will just chase you for the money. It's all in the legislation. Save yourself the future hassle and just tell them who owns it. (If you don't and you are working your employer will get instructed to tell them to deduct it from your wages because you haven't paid it.)

they can sing for it....but my main point is....the people that are suppose to be over looking this haven't a clue who to charge...they are guessing and sending out bills to everyone and anyone in the hope they get lucky and send one to the correct person...there is a great maxim in law

Cujus per errorem dati repetitio est, ejus consult dati donatio est.

Whoever pays by mistake what he does not owe, may recover it back; but he who pays, knowing he owes nothing; is presumed to give.

or how about

Consensus facit legem

Consent makes the law. A contract is a law between the parties, which can acquire force only by consent.

i do not have a contract and i do not consent to my wages been taken

Eglinton

The last few posts have raised my ire somewhat. My biggest problem is with the following contained in the Revenue letter:

Based on this information Revenue will consider your claim and make a decision on the matter. It is important that you contact Revenue to correct our Register because in the absence of any correction, you are liable to pay the tax.

Now I have just received this letter but I am a tenant. As I do not want to be liable I will certainly send the Revenue a letter with a copy of the lease etc.

However, I agree with Technoprisonor:
Why should I be the one who has to do the Revenue's job? I pay my rent to the Landlord who certainly has all his tax affairs in order so they should have a record.
I do not own the property so how could I be liable for the tax?

Makes no sense.

TheBandicoot

Technoprisoner wrote: »

Consensus facit legem

Consent makes the law. A contract is a law between the parties, which can acquire force only by consent.

By remaining a citizen of our country you have a social contract to follow our laws, and our laws say you must inform the Revenue of the true owners. Just do it.

Technoprisoner

TheBandicoot wrote: »

By remaining a citizen of our country you have a social contract to follow our laws, and our laws say you must inform the Revenue of the true owners. Just do it.

where does it say that in our constitution?

Clive

Technoprisoner wrote: »

Consent makes the law. A contract is a law between the parties, which can acquire force only by consent.

i do not have a contract and i do not consent to my wages been taken

Did you consent to the USC being deducted?

Technoprisoner

Clive wrote: »

Did you consent to the USC being deducted?

no...did you?

Cathmandooo

Got ours today after getting one for the former owner last week. 3 bands above what we'll be paying, 2 bands above what the website said, pretty big jump! Glad to have it sorted anyway

UDP

Eglinton wrote: »

The last few posts have raised my ire somewhat. My biggest problem is with the following contained in the Revenue letter:



Now I have just received this letter but I am a tenant. As I do not want to be liable I will certainly send the Revenue a letter with a copy of the lease etc.

However, I agree with Technoprisonor:
Why should I be the one who has to do the Revenue's job? I pay my rent to the Landlord who certainly has all his tax affairs in order so they should have a record.
I do not own the property so how could I be liable for the tax?

Makes no sense.

would you rather the government spent millions trying to find this information out a different way? I don't. It's not that big of an inconvenience.

Technoprisoner

UDP wrote: »

would you rather the government spent millions trying to find this information out a different way? I don't. It's not that big of an inconvenience.

no...but forcing an unjust tax on somebody else has moral implications that i would prefer not to get involved in....another good maxim of law for this is

The burden of proof lies upon him who affirms, not on him who denies.

Clive

Technoprisoner wrote: »

no...did you?

No, that's my point. Taxes are not a contract and do not require consent. Your employer will act on Revenue's instructions regardless of your consent or not.

Eglinton

UDP wrote: »

would you rather the government spent millions trying to find this information out a different way? I don't. It's not that big of an inconvenience.

Hang on. I said above that I would let them know. Writing a letter is certainly no big deal. I'm questioning why, for some reason I can't fathom, would I be liable to pay a tax for something I don't own. I'd be more than happy to forward my motor tax bill to you next month for instance. But I don't think you're likely to pay it.

Technoprisoner

Clive wrote: »

No, that's my point. Taxes are not a contract and do not require consent. Your employer will act on Revenue's instructions regardless of your consent or not.

You want to know the funny thing though


You do sign a contract as a teenager to agree to pay taxes when you are given your pps number.... Not exactly legal as you are underage to enter into contract

relax carry on

Technoprisoner wrote: »

You want to know the funny thing though


You do sign a contract as a teenager to agree to pay taxes when you are given your pps number.... Not exactly legal as you are underage to enter into contract

As pps numbers are now given to babies, can you advise what contract they sign and when. Thanks.

Victor

This thread is about local property tax letters. Desist from other lines of discussion.

Moderator

UDP

Eglinton wrote: »

Hang on. I said above that I would let them know. Writing a letter is certainly no big deal. I'm questioning why, for some reason I can't fathom, would I be liable to pay a tax for something I don't own. I'd be more than happy to forward my motor tax bill to you next month for instance. But I don't think you're likely to pay it.

But they already have good records on who owns what car and I am also not in possession of your car so why would they think that your car tax is for me to pay? They don't have the same regarding property which is ridiculus but it is where we are at. We have to start somewhere and this is the quickest and cheapest way to do it. I doubt anybody will be stuck paying a tax if it is not there's to be paid.

Eglinton

UDP wrote: »

But they already have good records on who owns what car and I am also not in possession of your car so why would they think that your car tax is for me to pay? They don't have the same regarding property which is ridiculus but it is where we are at. We have to start somewhere and this is the quickest and cheapest way to do it. I doubt anybody will be stuck paying a tax if it is not there's to be paid.

I'm not disagreeing with you - simply using a silly example to make my point. In the same way that you wouldn't pay my car tax, why should I pay my landlord's tax. I have no issue telling the Revenue who the landlord is and will do so this week. But for them to say that I would be liable for the tax is crazy if I don't own the dwelling.

UDP

Eglinton wrote: »

But for them to say that I would be liable for the tax is crazy if I don't own the dwelling.

Liable unless you tell them otherwise. If they didn't do that then nobody would tell them otherwise. Plus you don't have to own the building to be liable for the tax. If for instance you have a 20 year lease on a property then it is the tenant that is liable - there is no way for them to know this type of information ahead of time.