100ft Religious statue on top of Croagh Patrick?

Fear_an_tarbh

http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=17369:size-matters-for-sculptor-schmalz&catid=106:features&Itemid=100194

A Canadian sculptor wants to place a 100ft religious statue on top of Croagh Patrick. He has some strong ideas on how Irish people should accept their religious background.

Christianity is what changed Ireland in to the society that we know today. When St Patrick and the other Christian evangelists came to Ireland they were met with a culture that believed in human cannibalism, human sacrifice and glorified violence. We all are Christians here in the West whether we are practicing or secular Christians and we should celebrate it, not be ashamed of it.

What do people think of this? I'm amazed at his arrogance and don't believe Croagh Patrick needs such an 'improvement'. I like it and its history going back thousands of years just fine!

StudentDad

Fear_an_tarbh wrote: »

http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=17369:size-matters-for-sculptor-schmalz&catid=106:features&Itemid=100194

An American sculptor wants to place a 100ft religious statue on top of Croagh Patrick. He has some strong ideas on how Irish people should accept their religious background.



What do people think of this? I'm amazed at his arrogance and don't believe Croagh Patrick needs such an 'improvement'. I like it and its history going back thousands of years just fine!

No, it's bad enough that the church saw fit to put a church on the top of the mountain. The last thing we need is a monument. A monument saying what? 'We're the kings of the castle?' It is a devisive, exclusionary notion.

SD

PogMoThoin

FFS, Nimbyism at it's finest. He's a famous sculptor and it's free, he's seeking funding in the USA so it's not costing us anything. It'll be a gift, much like the giving of the statue of Liberty to the USA. His idea behind it is that Ireland doesn't have anything like it. I think it'll look great, it'll certainly be a lot nicer than some of the shíte art we've got scattered on roundabouts and road sides that cost a fortune and mean nothing.

Lucena

Who owns the top of Croagh Patrick?

uberalles

Better to swap it for the spike on O'Connell st?

rusheen

Lucena wrote: »

Who owns the top of Croagh Patrick?

I believe there is four groups of shareholders , Mayo Co Co , Murrisk Development council , the catholic church , and some local farmers who have grazing rights.

Thankfully I dont think all of them will ever agree to the his plan.

Seems he's just looking for a job ! not as if hes offering to pay for it !

hfallada

Americans arent the best for preserving and valuing heritage. I doubt he will get the funding for it. The Irish Americans don't have the desire anymore to feel Irish and throw money at the old country.

It will be highly unlikely to get passed an bord planala who pretty much block planning permission for the sake of blocking it

rusheen

hfallada wrote: »

Americans arent the best for preserving and valuing heritage. I doubt he will get the funding for it. The Irish Americans don't have the desire anymore to feel Irish and throw money at the old country.

It will be highly unlikely to get passed an bord planala who pretty much block planning permission for the sake of blocking it

True it will never happen .
Plenty of other more appropriate sites in Mayo

cursai

it looks grand. just cause anto hasnt written on it doesnt mean it won't be tasteful.

Just Like Heaven

As he says we are all Christians here in the west. Absolutely every single one of us. A 100ft statue is pretty good. They should put a church up there though, that'd be even better.

henryporter

Looks like St Patrick at a rave with some snakes! This guy is seriously confused. Is he American or Canadian? That's like the difference between English or French.

nuac

Gosh, is it April 1st already?

this will not happen because

1. Most of Croagh Patrick is held im commonage in undivided shares between local adjoining landowners. Majority of them strongly objected to goldmining proposals there some years ago. Government responded by banning gold prospecting there.

2. Planning permission would be required. Likely to be many wellfounded objections

3 Statue would be a hazard to helicopters.

Fear_an_tarbh

nuac wrote: »

3 Statue would be a hazard to helicopters.

I hadn't thought of that, they are quite busy on that mountain compared to other mountains, not sure if they land more on the summit or on the 'saddle' part of it.

tayto lover

Inda will want his statue beside it.

Lucena

nuac wrote: »

3 Statue would be a hazard to helicopters.

If it stopped rubbish being fecked down the back of the mountain, I'm all in favour of stopping helicopters.

I walked up to the top a few years back and the amount of rubbish down the back (opposite side to the bay) was unreal. I'm not talking water bottles here, this was heavy stuff (a few yellow Calorgas canisters and the like) that could only have come up by helicopter. This is why this country is a dirty sh1thole.
Firstly, the people who were given permission to bring all that stuff up shouldn't have done it in the first place.
And secondly the people that gave the permission should have made sure they took all their sh1te back down with them.

"Ah shur f*uck it, it'll be grand", it's what made Ireland great!

nuac

Lucena wrote: »

If it stopped rubbish being fecked down the back of the mountain, I'm all in favour of stopping helicopters.

I walked up to the top a few years back and the amount of rubbish down the back (opposite side to the bay) was unreal. I'm not talking water bottles here, this was heavy stuff (a few yellow Calorgas canisters and the like) that could only have come up by helicopter. This is why this country is a dirty sh1thole.
Firstly, the people who were given permission to bring all that stuff up shouldn't have done it in the first place.
And secondly the people that gave the permission should have made sure they took all their sh1te back down with them.

"Ah shur f*uck it, it'll be grand", it's what made Ireland great!

Helicopters usually fly on CP to evacuate those hurt on the mountain.

I think the Calorgas containers are more likely to have been brought up there by those supplying hot tea etc to pilgrims.

Solair

I'm not so sure about plonking some structure on top of a scene of natural beauty.

Do we know what this statue will look like ?!

PogMoThoin

Solair wrote: »

I'm not so sure about plonking some structure on top of a scene of natural beauty.

Do we know what this statue will look like ?!

Yes, see here http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=17369:size-matters-for-sculptor-schmalz&catid=106:features&Itemid=100194

Lucena

nuac wrote: »

Helicopters usually fly on CP to evacuate those hurt on the mountain.

I think the Calorgas containers are more likely to have been brought up there by those supplying hot tea etc to pilgrims.

I had thought of that alright, just wanted to rant at seeing a beautiful site destroyed by rubbish.

Solair

Hmm... I don't really like the look of it.

Also, I'm not overly keen on the idea of massive pieces of religious art in the 21st century.

Yeah, Ireland has a lot of Christian heritage and its covered in churches, statues, place names that have religious names etc

However, there's a lot more to Irish culture than that.

The early church actually kinda merged into Gaelic culture in a kind of symbiosis and adapted many old traditions, symbols and festivals.

I think it's the height of arrogance to just cast that civilisation aside as a bunch of barbarians !

The Christians also did their fair share of barbarism - inquisition, burning at stakes etc etc

Ireland's a big melange of ancient cultures, not just one.

nuac

Solair wrote: »

Hmm... I don't really like the look of it.

Also, I'm not overly keen on the idea of massive pieces of religious art in the 21st century.

Yeah, Ireland has a lot of Christian heritage and its covered in churches, statues, place names that have religious names etc

However, there's a lot more to Irish culture than that.

The early church actually kinda merged into Gaelic culture in a kind of symbiosis and adapted many old traditions, symbols and festivals.

I think it's the height of arrogance to just cast that civilisation aside as a bunch of barbarians !

The Christians also did their fair share of barbarism - inquisition, burning at stakes etc etc

Ireland's a big melange of ancient cultures, not just one.

Yes - when St Patrick got to Mayo he "took the high ground". Mountains in most countries hav e attracted worshippers of various faiths or of none.

Pagans at the time used to climb that mountain to worship Cromdúbh, god of fertility and other matters. The various holy wells around the area were probably also pagan sacred places.

Solair

You also have to remember that history is very much written by the victors. It's very easy to write off ancient civilisations when viewing them through the prism of church or colonial historians.

Also, I'd add that western civilisation - roads, architecture, writing, maths, concepts of cities, government systems, legal systems etc etc almost all stem from Ancient Rome and the Roman Empire and Ancient Greece with various local influences.

Christianity actually spread through that already established globalised structure and pretty much merged into it.

The civilisations predate the religion by a very long time.

I'm not trying to diss Christianity but, I just think it would be rather revisionist to ignore our Celtic, Gaelic, Viking, Pictish, Roman, Norman and umpteen other influences that ultimately convolved into what made us Irish.

We're not ignoring our Christian heritage either but we are maybe placing it into context more than we have done in the past.

There was a rather crude attempt to erase many aspects of culture here eg forcing the use of saints names and attempting to make traditional Irish names disappear etc etc

Ireland is a very ancient place, with a very rich and complex history and structures that predate the pyramids in Egypt!!

Something we should take huge pride in rather than just discount as ancient barbarians!

nuac

I agree with a lot of that.

Many of our traditions are pre-Christian.

I.e. we still have bonfires in the West of Ireland on the feast of St John ( about 23rd of June ) Tradition associated with bonfires i.e. taking embers home to re-light the homefire are said to be pre-chistian.

then there are the Sheila-na-gigs etc

Dudda

Ignoring the aesthetics, religious views, impact on landscape, planning permission etc. and looking at it from a practical point of view I can't see how you'd generate 10 million for this. I also think it would cost a hell of a lot more. It's an incredibly tough site. The spire in Dublin is just a metal pole and on a very flat O'Connell street that the trucks could drive up and the crane lift into position. You can't do that on Coragh Patrick with a statue like this.

About two years ago they recorded mass on top of Coragh Patrick on Reek Sunday and they had a nightmare bringing a generator and camera equipment to the top. Three helicopters were damaged trying to land on the Reek (two small local and then an army helicopter which was too big to land), a bulldozer with track tyres couldn't find grip and started sliding down and in the end the equipment was dragged up by local donkeys.

You'd need to build a road that would zig-zag up the side of the mountain to construct something like that which would have a far greater impact on the mountain. You'd end up digging away half the mountain to make the road and dig the foundations for a statue that size. That type of road/construction site entrance would cost over a million and then another million just to remove it.

Putting aside aesthetics I don't think anyone has though this through from a practical point of view.

dharma200

regardless of the cost and practical implications, this project is cultural tourism at its worst... someone (regardless of how talented) thinking they can make something, and have it displayed in peoples faces, only to up and out back home, pleased with himself and another notch on the cv... I would hope that at best this is a publicity stunt... has no one taught this sculptor the notion of respect for local heritage, culture and history? Very inspired (not) to stick a large, religious inspired lump on top of this mountain. Very very rude, ridiculous.. and I am sure worthy of the upmost vandalism should it see light of day.

Mayo Miss

Hmmmmmm a big sculpture on top of a hill in Mayo.......


I wonder has he been in contact with Joe McNamara (Achill-henge) :rolleyes:

opinion guy

Eh....human cannibalism and human sacrifice ???
I don't remember that chapter of Peig

nuac

opinion guy wrote: »

Eh....human cannibalism and human sacrifice ???
I don't remember that chapter of Peig

Don't know about cannibalism, but I heard that Cromdúbh demanded the sacrifice of virgins.

The all night pilgrimages ran up to about 30 years ago. It is alleged that some lost their virginity on the Reek on pilgrimage nights

Mayo Miss

nuac wrote: »

Don't know about cannibalism, but I heard that Cromdúbh demanded the sacrifice of virgins.

The all night pilgrimages ran up to about 30 years ago. It is alleged that some lost their virginity on the Reek on pilgrimage nights

Up until recent years the tradition for some was to go straight from the pub/disco to the reek and have it climbed before you'd sober up, so I'd say there was a bit more than prayers going on alright.

opinion guy

Right well it has to be a giant monument then I propose we put a giant 100ft high silicon chip in Leixlip. That is a better reflection of modern Ireland.....and would give one a reason to go to Leixlip

yop

Mayo Miss wrote: »

Up until recent years the tradition for some was to go straight from the pub/disco to the reek and have it climbed before you'd sober up, so I'd say there was a bit more than prayers going on alright.

Ummm, I can put my hands up for that "trick"

There was wall to wall 3somes, 4somes and snackboxes