Ikea have reduced all LED lightbulbs

Capt'n Midnight

If you are purchasing only to reduce electricity costs then check the lumens vs. watts.

These aren't any better than CFL , they cost more and you have to buy more of them to get the same light. ( some are worse than CFL )

Only really worth buying for instant full brightness / colour of light.



Not sure if Atlantic are still doing these for these for €2.19
http://www.osram.com/osram_com/products/led-technology/lamps/led-2in1-lamps/duled/index.jsp

Energy Saver + LED bulb
0.3W when used in LED mode less than a fiver a year if you leave it on all the time. Handy for mode and corridors.

400Lm /8W in CFL mode = 50Lm/watt.

The Ikea one only gives 40Lm / watt and are half as bright
http://www.ikea.com/ie/en/catalog/products/70255291/



The record for LED's is 250Lm/watt, so expect way more efficient LED's bulbs in the next few years that will beat CFL's

copacetic

Only instant brightness/better light?

Do they not last longer and run cooler?

Capt'n Midnight

copacetic wrote: »

Only instant brightness/better light?

Do they not last longer and run cooler?

It's more that you won't save any money compared to shopping around for CFL's for now and buying the best LED later.

LED's and CFL's both fade over time

Replacing one CFL with two LED's that each cost more than twice the price is crazy when more cheaper and more efficient LEDs will be available when you need to replace the CFL

copacetic

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

It's more that you won't save any money compared to shopping around for CFL's for now and buying the best LED later.

LED's and CFL's both fade over time

Replacing one CFL with two LED's that each cost more than twice the price is crazy when more cheaper and more efficient LEDs will be available when you need to replace the CFL

They last roughly 2.5 times longer so it doesn't seem that crazy? Ikea cfl rated for 10k hours, LEDs 25k hours. So price is the same/hour and they are instant on, better light and run cool.

paddy147

Well as my pics show on previous pages......they (Ikea LEDs) are good enough for floor lamps,table lamps and also bedrooms.

Good enough for myself and my family.

ted1

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

If you are purchasing only to reduce electricity costs then check the lumens vs. watts.

These aren't any better than CFL , they cost more and you have to buy more of them to get the same light. ( some are worse than CFL )

Only really worth buying for instant full brightness / colour of light.



Not sure if Atlantic are still doing these for these for €2.19
http://www.osram.com/osram_com/products/led-technology/lamps/led-2in1-lamps/duled/index.jsp

Energy Saver + LED bulb
0.3W when used in LED mode less than a fiver a year if you leave it on all the time. Handy for mode and corridors.

400Lm /8W in CFL mode = 50Lm/watt.

The Ikea one only gives 40Lm / watt and are half as bright
http://www.ikea.com/ie/en/catalog/products/70255291/



The record for LED's is 250Lm/watt, so expect way more efficient LED's bulbs in the next few years that will beat CFL's

There's more than lm/watt. You need to look at the CIR and temperature. Low pressure sodium lamps give great lm/watt but have a really bad CIR and temperature

paddyp

The short version for lay people is that the ikea leds have a very low output the most powerful one there is 400lm which they themselves say is approximately equal to the light emitted by a 40-watt incandescent bulb.

Their GU10 bulb is only 150lm which is equivalent to a efficient 20w gu10 or a 10w efficient halogen capsule.

Capt'n Midnight

ted1 wrote: »

There's more than lm/watt. You need to look at the CIR and temperature.

That's why I said

Me wrote:

If you are purchasing only to reduce electricity costs then check the lumens vs. watts.
...
Only really worth buying for instant full brightness / colour of light.

The best LED's beat Low pressure sodium but won't be in the shops for a while.

paddyp wrote: »

The short version for lay people is that the ikea leds have a very low output the most powerful one there is 400lm which they themselves say is approximately equal to the light emitted by a 40-watt incandescent bulb.

400Lm = 8W CFL or 7.5W LED or 30W "ECO" Halogen

copacetic wrote: »

They last roughly 2.5 times longer so it doesn't seem that crazy? Ikea cfl rated for 10k hours, LEDs 25k hours. So price is the same/hour and they are instant on, better light and run cool.

The CFL is 1/3rd the price.

10K hours is 3 years at 9 hours a day.
I'd expect cheaper and more efficient LED's by then


as for running cool , watts come out as heat or light , there is 0.5w difference on the 400lm bulbs, - the 5W led is gives less light than the CFL

ozmo

Bought 4 IKEA LEDARE LED bulb E14 reflector R50 Spotlight bulb at the full price last month - and
they are not so good -

slightly flickery like they are flashing really fast - torch like directional (tighter focus than a normal R50 or cfl) they were replacing and not a great colour being a bit too clinical blue tint.

ted1

ozmo wrote: »

Bought 4 IKEA LEDARE LED bulb E14 reflector R50 Spotlight bulb at the full price last month - and
they are not so good -

slightly flickery like they are flashing really fast - torch like directional (tighter focus than a normal R50 or cfl) they were replacing and not a great colour being a bit too clinical blue tint.

are they going through a dimmer?
what angle are they , thats antother thing to take into account

ozmo

ted1 wrote: »

are they going through a dimmer?
what angle are they , thats antother thing to take into account

No dimmer - just 4 in a row on one of those kitchen ceiling lights bars - angled down from ceiling as they are designed to be. Mains was measured at 230v.
Ill try capture the strobe effect on camera and post it.. not sure if I can.

ted1

ozmo wrote: »

No dimmer - just 4 in a row on one of those kitchen ceiling lights bars - angled down from ceiling as they are designed to be. Mains was measured at 230v.
Ill try capture the strobe effect on camera and post it.. not sure if I can.

Lamps are sold as having an angle of light spread. A typical Gu10 could be 35-40 degrees. It sounds like these are more spot lights with a small angle designed to focus light.

paddyp

ozmo wrote: »

Bought 4 IKEA LEDARE LED bulb E14 reflector R50 Spotlight bulb at the full price last month - and
they are not so good -

slightly flickery like they are flashing really fast - torch like directional (tighter focus than a normal R50 or cfl) they were replacing and not a great colour being a bit too clinical blue tint.

Another reason to avoid youd think the shops selling this junk must have shares in the incandescent bulb companies. Make sure to keep the receipts. 2700k should not be blue at all specs are obviously meaningless no angle specified so you'd expect it to be diffused.

WhiteNoSugar

Could be poor wiring in the fitting, wouldn't be the first time LED lamps have had short circuits in those types of fittings.

msg11

So confused !

Put basically , which one is cheaper to run!

Capt'n Midnight

msg11 wrote: »

So confused !

Put basically , which one is cheaper to run!

Today CFL's mainly because of the very low price of the bulbs and fittings.

By 2015/6 LEDs will be twice or even three times as efficient and a fraction of the price they are today. Today only the very best LEDs can compete with CFL on light output per watt. And you'd have to make the savings in two years or less.

The future belongs to LEDs, CFLs won't be around much longer.

http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/bulletin/philips-shatters-led-efficiency-record/17268
Both Philips and Cree have demonstrated 200Lm/watt, many of todays led's are only 1/4 of that.

Prof Nincom Poop Ph.D

If you've a celtic tiger kitchen with a million downers, they're worth getting. At the right price.

ted1

Prof Nincom Poop Ph.D wrote: »

If you've a celtic tiger kitchen with a million downers, they're worth getting. At the right price.

philips master 4w GU10 dimmable lamps at €8.50, are the ideal repalcement for 5ws or 35 W leds and will offer a pyback period of around a year, then after that your laughing

WhiteNoSugar

You know I'm really tired of the blatant lies told about Lm/W efficiency.

According to the CIBSE Society of Light and Lighting Handbook:

Technology Lm/W
=======================
Incandescent 8-14
Halogen 15-25

Energysaver 20-50
T8 Fluorescent 50-96

Metal Halide 65-97


Also, the Philips 4W is no longer the be all and end all. It's an OK lamp with about the same light output as a 25W halogen. There are higher output lamps out there from any of the decent on-line retailers for the same or less money.

Capt'n Midnight is absolutely right though, there are much better lamps coming out in the next few years. BUT I don't agree that they'll be a lot cheaper than they are now because there is a lot of R&D to payback and the suppliers know people won't change over if the existing solution is good enough. The benefits of moving from an 8W lamp to a 3W lamp are negligible in terms of ROI.

ted1

WhiteNoSugar wrote: »

You know I'm really tired of the blatant lies told about Lm/W efficiency.

According to the CIBSE Society of Light and Lighting Handbook:

Technology Lm/W
=======================
Incandescent 8-14
Halogen 15-25

Energysaver 20-50
T8 Fluorescent 50-96

Metal Halide 65-97


Also, the Philips 4W is no longer the be all and end all. It's an OK lamp with about the same light output as a 25W halogen. There are higher output lamps out there from any of the decent on-line retailers for the same or less money.

Capt'n Midnight is absolutely right though, there are much better lamps coming out in the next few years. BUT I don't agree that they'll be a lot cheaper than they are now because there is a lot of R&D to payback and the suppliers know people won't change over if the existing solution is good enough. The benefits of moving from an 8W lamp to a 3W lamp are negligible in terms of ROI.

I measured the difference between a 50w and 4w and they are a good substitute. I replaced 8 50w gu10s with 4w Nd I'm more than satisfied.

So I'm going to have to disagree with you

Do-more

ted1 wrote: »

philips master 4w GU10 dimmable lamps at €8.50, are the ideal repalcement for 5ws or 35 W leds and will offer a pyback period of around a year, then after that your laughing

Where can you buy them at €8.50?

Cheapest I can find them online is about €12 ea.

ted1

Do-more wrote: »

Where can you buy them at €8.50?

Cheapest I can find them online is about €12 ea.

Eurosales

Joey99

Chalk up another getting excited about discounts and developments in LED lighting!

Capt'n Midnight

WhiteNoSugar wrote: »

You know I'm really tired of the blatant lies told about Lm/W efficiency.

According to the CIBSE Society of Light and Lighting Handbook:

Technology Lm/W
=======================
Incandescent 8-14
Halogen 15-25

Energysaver 20-50
T8 Fluorescent 50-96

Metal Halide 65-97

Again hammering home the point that both Philips and Cree have demonstrated 200Lm/W in a downhill with the wind behind you way, but still. Compare that to as low as 40Lm/W on some of those Ikea LEDs.


Oh yeah Cree announced 276Lm/W
http://www.cree.com/news-and-events/cree-news/press-releases/2013/february/276-lpw Cree reports that the LED efficacy was measured at 276 lumens per watt, at a correlated color temperature of 4401 K and 350 mA.

Capt'n Midnight is absolutely right though, there are much better lamps coming out in the next few years. BUT I don't agree that they'll be a lot cheaper than they are now because there is a lot of R&D to payback and the suppliers know people won't change over if the existing solution is good enough. The benefits of moving from an 8W lamp to a 3W lamp are negligible in terms of ROI.

The best of the LEDs will still command a premium but they will push down the price of their poorer cousins. Look at what happened the price of CFL's - that should give an idea of the maximum costs of all the physical bits and electronics for an LED bulb. At that stage all you have to pay for is the LED itself.

Haitz's law - states that every decade, the cost per lumen (unit of useful light emitted) falls by a factor of 10, and the amount of light generated per LED package increases by a factor of 20.


Ignore bulbs that use lots of tiny inefficient LEDs and get ones that have just a few large LEDs - the efficiency is nothing to do with the size per se, but rather that larger LED are newer technology and newer technology is more efficient.

Capt'n Midnight

ted1 wrote: »

philips master 4w GU10 dimmable lamps at €8.50, are the ideal repalcement for 5ws or 35 W leds and will offer a pyback period of around a year, then after that your laughing

Payback of a year vs. incandescent just means you are ignoring the CFL option.

Unfortunately GU10 CFL's are an extortionate price in most retailers compared to normal B22 CFL's. :mad::mad::mad:

http://cpcireland.farnell.com/pro-elec/gu11w/lamp-gu10-energy-saving/dp/LP03326 11w for Unit Price: €3.84 (€4.72)
http://cpcireland.farnell.com/pro-elec/esgu107w/lamp-gu10-energy-saving-7w/dp/LP03264?in_merch=Featured%20Products Unit Price: €4.24 (€5.21)
Sorry I don't know what delivery costs , it used to be free



Though LED's are finally getting cheaper - beware they start at 0.8w so CFL's are still cheaper per Watt.
http://cpcireland.farnell.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp?N=411+2006+207556&Ntk=gensearch&Ntt=gu10&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial


If you want to save money long term don't buy fancy light fittings.

ted1

LEDs have an edge as they have 0 start up time compared to CFLs and its my personal opinion that they gave a nicer colour which would be subjective as its an opinion .

paddyp

I wouldn't hold my breath for super efficient leds at consumer prices.

You're typically talking 3-4 years from the lab to production, when the 200lm+ leds do come out in real world lamps they'll likely be producing well under 200lm/w at the warm white temperatures and typical operating currents. It will be a several years after that again before they reach consumer prices.

What we will hopefully see in the next couple of years is the 80-100lm/w bulbs becoming widely available at sub €10 prices which will render cfls obsolete. The biggest problem is legacy formats like gu10 which simply dont lend themselves to integration of efficient technology.

long_b

OK - I'm not fuss - LED, CFL - whichever.

Can someone please post a link to any cheap replacements for my "half light/half oven" halogen 40W GU10s please ?

Thanks in advance !!

paddy147

ted1 wrote: »

Eurosales

Yep Euroseles indeed.:)

Capt'n Midnight

long_b wrote: »

OK - I'm not fuss - LED, CFL - whichever.

Can someone please post a link to any cheap replacements for my "half light/half oven" halogen 40W GU10s please ?

Thanks in advance !!

you mean like the one's in my previous post ?