Buying bitcoins

zonEEE

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Exchange rates. ( Facebook likes are at the bottom )
http://liliontransfer.org/?cms_www=cennik

Does that transfer work?

Some money to be made arbing between mtgox and btc-e sometimes there can be a big price difference. Only problem is getting money to a from each exchange quickly.

grotmaster

zonEEE wrote: »

yep, there's many that have already 25k+ orders with bufferfly labs. Its to late to make money mining bitcoins unless you already have a pre order in. Difficultly will go insane.

Pre orders can be bought on ebay, they have gone for 10k plus in the past few weeks.

One with three days left.

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Pre-Order-1-x-60-GH-s-Bitcoin-Miner-BitForce-Single-SC-ASIC-Butterfly-Labs-/271188485081?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f2417e3d9#ht_1870wt_906

This fellow has been following Butterfly Labs, the makers of the above non-existent product, for some time. There is an abundance of these machines on Ebay right now, with many of the original purchasers clamouring to secure only partial refunds from Butterfly labs. A large thread, but very informative for anyone with a few €k to spare.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=136392.0

Capt'n Midnight

zonEEE wrote: »

Only problem is getting money to a from each exchange quickly.

That is a huge understatement.

It's the BIG problem. Look at how much the value fell while people were in the queue to sell them. Also look at how often exchanges were hacked. So to be safe you'd have to keep them offline. Which would put you even further back in the queue.

montreal2011

I'm not looking to troll and I don't want to annoy anyone, but isn't it essentially a ponzi scheme?

srsly78

montreal2011 wrote: »

I'm not looking to troll and I don't want to annoy anyone, but isn't it essentially a ponzi scheme?

No it does not meet the definition. Similarly you cannot call the gold bubble a ponzi scheme either.

scamalert

montreal2011 wrote: »

I'm not looking to troll and I don't want to annoy anyone, but isn't it essentially a ponzi scheme?

No its not.Read whole idea on wikipedia.
the only drawback is that as said previously it doesnt solve anything,and taken into account resources needed to make flippin coin,is easier to go looking for real coins on the street,if person who posted correctly you make around 50-1$ a day running full power i7,anyway there is million better ways to make dollar a day.

montreal2011

srsly78 wrote: »

No it does not meet the definition. Similarly you cannot call the gold bubble a ponzi scheme either.

It's an interesting idea,but I would not go near it. I think it, just like gold certs, allows ample room for scamming, such as dubious gold cert issuers who issue certs without the physical gold to back it up.

pH

montreal2011 wrote: »

It's an interesting idea,but I would not go near it. I think it, just like gold certs, allows ample room for scamming, such as dubious gold cert issuers who issue certs without the physical gold to back it up.

The bitcoin network as it stands has no room for scamming - the ownership and transfer of coins is solid.

With botcoins money/value can be moved around the internet very securely and very quickly.

Ironically, many things that people are complaining about (being able to move your money around the world quickly and safely) are the things that bitcoin solves perfectly.

At them moment we have basically visa/mastercard for purchases and various money moves like Western Union and interbank schemes like SEPA, and horrible half-assed things like PayPal - none of them provide a decent service to either sellers or buyers.

Call me a bitcoin believer if you must, but I genuinely believe that bitcoin (or something very similar) will become the basis for a significant percentage of money moving around in the near future.

There is another question about whether they're worth buying and hoarding as an investment vehicle - I'm not necessarily saying that, just that I think that bitcoins themselves have a bright future.

scamalert

bright future ?
visa,mastercard is accepted 99% of the world,rest can accept wu on any corner ? Its only good moving money for criminals more like,on silk road or other dodgy sites.
and saying good investment is like playing poker,as bitcoin started as 7-20cents and in two years time soared over 100$ and then plumeted,its sorta like forex you can put a gamble on it hoping it will eventually rise in price,until someone decides to cash out and plumeting market to the bottom.also its high value is hard to cash out or buy something with it,altough there are retailers and what not who accept it to some extent.

srsly78

The point is visa and western union etc take a big cut for themselves. Maybe you think it's free to use your credit card but the retailer often has to pay 2.5% or more. You can send bitcoins to someone almost instantly for free.

pH

scamalert wrote: »

bright future ?
visa,mastercard is accepted 99% of the world,rest can accept wu on any corner ? Its only good moving money for criminals more like,on silk road or other dodgy sites.

Which is fine if you don't mind paying up to 2% of the transaction value. However you can't send me (or a relative in Poland) money easily using visa. With bitcoin it's a click of a mouse, literally.

and saying good investment is like playing poker,as bitcoin started as 7-20cents and in two years time soared over 100$ and then plumeted,its sorta like forex you can put a gamble on it hoping it will eventually rise in price,until someone decides to cash out and plumeting market to the bottom.also its high value is hard to cash out or buy something with it,altough there are retailers and what not who accept it to some extent.

As I said, the question of whether bitcoins themselves are worth investing in is a totally different question - I never said they were.

Capt'n Midnight

srsly78 wrote: »

No it does not meet the definition.

can't resist

"our model is trapezoid " :pac:

pH wrote: »

The bitcoin network as it stands has no room for scamming - the ownership and transfer of coins is solid

At present there is quite a large risk of either you or the exchange getting attacked and the bitcoins stolen.

bitcoins can be lost forever if people forget passwords

There is another question about whether they're worth buying and hoarding as an investment vehicle - I'm not necessarily saying that, just that I think that bitcoins themselves have a bright future.

Unfortunately with bitcoins the more people who hoard them the less useful they are as a medium of exchange and that's where their real value lies.

There are two questions

what is their intrinsic value ? for those who want to use them

what is their likely peak value ? for those who want to invest in them


Don't forget that other bitcoin like networks are already setup so people won't have to rely on bitcoins. IMHO This means there is a limit to the premium they can command.

Capt'n Midnight

pH wrote: »

Which is fine if you don't mind paying up to 2% of the transaction value. However you can't send me (or a relative in Poland) money easily using visa. With bitcoin it's a click of a mouse, literally.

Don't forget that phone companies are also doing transfers
http://www.safaricom.co.ke/personal/m-pesa/m-pesa-services-tariffs/tariffs
( Divide by 110 to get Euros )
Transfer to / from mobile phone accounts
49c transfer for 3c fee
eg: €700 transfer for €1 fee

I'm not saying it's ideal , but I am saying there are other ways of transfering money point to point where the sender can't clawback. Fees could come down if phone companies competed with each other.

scamalert

srsly78 wrote: »

The point is visa and western union etc take a big cut for themselves. Maybe you think it's free to use your credit card but the retailer often has to pay 2.5% or more. You can send bitcoins to someone almost instantly for free.

I use WU often and yeah depending on the country they charge 10-30e per transaction,but its money in minutes and cash in hands.But i see it as a charge for service.
But im more interested how much your electricity bill would be for running top end pc with 600-800watt psu for a month in return for bitcoin ?

dcreavy

Hi guys , a friend of my just told me these existed yesterday and I'd love to take a small gamble (€20-€30) :cool: investing in them. Is there anyone who is experienced in buying and selling them that could help me out and possible give me a few tips or a guide on the best ways to do it? Would really appreciate the help

Thanks, David

pH

scamalert wrote: »

But im more interested how much your electricity bill would be for running top end pc with 600-800watt psu for a month in return for bitcoin ?

But that's just a silly question - a top end PC just isn't an efficient tool for mining bitcoins.

For those with efficient hardware (later FPGAs and new ASICS) the daily figures are here:
http://blockchain.info/stats

Don't forget that phone companies are also doing transfers

Another half baked system that doesn't have a fraction of 1% of the possibilities of an open net based transfer system like bitcoin.

And on the "ponzi" thing - A ponzi scheme is an investment scheme where investors are promised a return by the scheme, and the scheme keeps pretending to make money and add it to all the accounts, nominally increasing each accounts value but there's never any (or enough) real gains in the scheme to match - instead the scheme pays these gains (when requested) out of the capital being invested by new people joining the scheme (attracted by the outrageous returns current investors are getting).

This has nothing to do with bitcoin, there is no central scheme claiming that investments are making huge returns and falsely adding these returns to accounts.

ANYONE WITH A BITCOIN SUCCESS STORY

3 days ago they were worth 49 eur - today 75

Giblet

pH wrote: »

But that's just a silly question - a top end PC just isn't an efficient tool for mining bitcoins.

For those with efficient hardware (later FPGAs and new ASICS) the daily figures are here:
http://blockchain.info/stats



Another half baked system that doesn't have a fraction of 1% of the possibilities of an open net based transfer system like bitcoin.

And on the "ponzi" thing - A ponzi scheme is an investment scheme where investors are promised a return by the scheme, and the scheme keeps pretending to make money and add it to all the accounts, nominally increasing each accounts value but there's never any (or enough) real gains in the scheme to match - instead the scheme pays these gains (when requested) out of the capital being invested by new people joining the scheme (attracted by the outrageous returns current investors are getting).

This has nothing to do with bitcoin, there is no central scheme claiming that investments are making huge returns and falsely adding these returns to accounts.



3 days ago they were worth 49 eur - today 75

Asics haven't shipped in any large quantity, and when they do, the difficulty will bump up, negating the benefit.

Bitcoin transfers rely on verifications, and miners will be biased towards transactions with transactions costs, in order to verify a transaction within a few hours, otherwise you might be waiting a few days. There is nothing speedy about it, and transferring an amount to an address is worthless if you can't cash out.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees

Getting actual money out might take a while as well. Most exchanges require a minimum amount to withdraw money, euro is particularly painful to deal with. Hell, check any bitcoin forum, all of them are feverous about the dollar value of bitcoins, because they want to cash out, there doesn't seem to be intrinsic value in keeping coins. So no, it's not fast, because you need to cash out to make it worthwhile, because you can't buy goods or services of any notability.

And my last point. The so called "genius" of "Satoshi", the so called complexity of the algorithms and how people who don't use bitcoin don't understand it, and how it's so secure. It's already been abused with the .7->.8 blockchain fix. (yes, technically a 51% attack was performed then, just it was by consensus of a few pools). It's not a difficult concept to understand for any decent developer. Non-developers seem to grasp that it has some complexity and then use that to justify that it is really secure.

Also, 8 Days ago, it was worth 260 dollars, then it dropped to 50.

The real winners? Early adopters, SatoshiDice.

pH

Giblet wrote: »

Getting actual money out might take a while as well. Most exchanges require a minimum amount to withdraw money, euro is particularly painful to deal with. Hell, check any bitcoin forum, all of them are feverous about the dollar value of bitcoins, because they want to cash out, there doesn't seem to be intrinsic value in keeping coins. So no, it's not fast, because you need to cash out to make it worthwhile, because you can't buy goods or services of any notability.

I think people have a blind spot here, they're so used to how banking and other systems work they can't see the wood for the trees. Anyone with a computer can "cash out" their bitcoins by sending them to someone else's wallet with a mouse in one hand whilst accepting cash/goods/services with the other hand.

The exchanges provide valuable service to be sure, but bitcoins can be sent to anyone instantly - all you need is someone willing to pay you what you think they're worth.

At the moment they're probably easier to cash out than any investment vehicle - in that shares/commodities also need to be traded on an exchange and then a transfer to a bank account. This is the same for bitcoins, except that in addition to this there are cash now options like localbitcoins.

If you are making lots of bitcoins as a business it's fairly easy to almost instantly move them to a cash value with a trade (remove btc currency risk) and then move them to a bank account.

Edit:
Oh, and 100 euro as of this morning.

And I'm amazed at some of the scepticism, one of the things that bitcoins will revolutionise is "Investments & Markets" because it makes it trivial to get money to/from accounts that allow you purchase other commodities.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade

scamalert

PH
you say its good currency ?
260 dollars, then it dropped to 50.
at firs it was only 0.20c$ then climbed to 20$ then hiked over 260 back down and so on.
If it was real world currency whole global world would collapse with such fluctuations.
This reminds me of gold farming in games,doing same thing over and over again until you get desired item or amount=in return you might get some cash or item,but it only lasts while there are others willing to pay for it,and collapse happens when majority collects the said item or amount,then its up to them people to make game over.And its the majority of bitcoin users who can easily manipulate this without any intervention.
So one day its worth 50e next day its 100e and one morning its 1e worth nothing.
So what started as great idea is basically controlled by those who have render farms and huge servers to make coins for those who dont have required resources.Sorta like real world currency except with 0 regulations and plenty of space for manipulations.

pH

scamalert wrote: »

PH
you say its good currency ?
260 dollars, then it dropped to 50.
at firs it was only 0.20c$ then climbed to 20$ then hiked over 260 back down and so on.
If it was real world currency whole global world would collapse with such fluctuations.
This reminds me of gold farming in games,doing same thing over and over again until you get desired item or amount=in return you might get some cash or item,but it only lasts while there are others willing to pay for it,and collapse happens when majority collects the said item or amount,then its up to them people to make game over.And its the majority of bitcoin users who can easily manipulate this without any intervention.
So one day its worth 50e next day its 100e and one morning its 1e worth nothing.
So what started as great idea is basically controlled by those who have render farms and huge servers to make coins for those who dont have required resources.Sorta like real world currency except with 0 regulations and plenty of space for manipulations.

Well if anyone is the blame it's "investors", people following the Greater fool theory, what someone is willing to pay for a bitcoin one day as opposed to the next.

As for the servers and miners, they're mining about 3,000 bitcoins per day - in no way does who gets this relatively small amount of newly minted coins affect or control the 11 million+ coins already out there, nor does the control of these servers allow them manipulate the market in any way. Claims like you are making are pure nonsense.

scamalert

So yeah people complain paying here 10-30e per wu transaction but they are ok to lose 50e on a single coin in days time :pac:
There are plenty options invest in commodities,stocks,indexes with minimal cost and risk,and they are backed up by countries and goverments,central banks,where bitcoins have no restrictions and controls,so you say theres 11mil of coins already made,definately there are people who own close to 1 mill between all of them,so it would only take one person to bring the whole price to plummet down,where in forex which have 3billion daily turnaround wouldn't make couple points impact if there was someone throwing in orders of 20-30mill,i had my share of trading stock indexes,commodities in nearly three years time,and can say ita not more different to trading forex only there isnt real economical factors that influence Such ranges like bitcoin has to make it worth investing in.I heard the recent price influx was due to US continuing printing $$$ but that reflected in prices hiking across the oil/silver and gold,where bitcoins are backed only by people who are willing to give them value day to day basis.

moneymad

brendan86 wrote: »

Heh guys,

I've been doing a bit of research the last week into buying bitcoins.. I want to buy 1k worth, I know it's risky but I have it to spare and might just see how it goes for a year or so..

I have currently registered on mtgox.com and am awaiting approval on my Id verification.. Has anyone dealt with this site have any info for me?

If I put my money on mtgox that means I have to trust them with my bitcoins is this correct? I won't have to have a wallet on my computer?

I'm just basically asking for advice, it's what I want to do but if someone can explain the best way about it that knows more than me I would appreciate it

Thanks

Brendan

did you buy the bitcoins yet?

Capt'n Midnight

http://bitcoingem.com/

Dr Silly Bollox MD

Here we go again: Top Bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox taken down for hours by ‘another strong DDoS attack’ (Updated)

pH

Dr Silly Bollox MD wrote: »

Here we go again: Top Bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox taken down for hours by ‘another strong DDoS attack’ (Updated)

There was another maybe 24 hours ago, both made very little difference to the price people have copped on not to panic sell just because the exchange is down for a couple of hours.

And on the bitcoingem thing, personally I have no interest in it, but it's a tiny tiny example of what anyone can do with bitcoins on the net - who knows what incredible creative uses pioneers will provide in the coming months.

milltown

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

http://bitcoingem.com/

Brilliant!

Just in case Bitcoin alone wasn't volatile enough lately.
"However, the gem may reset randomly after a purchase. The odds of a random reset are 1.5625%, meaning your winning odds are 98.4375%. Should your purchase trigger a reset, you will lose your stake and the gem's price will go back to 0.1 bitcoins. "

christeb

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

http://bitcoingem.com/

now THERE'S a Ponzi scheme!

pH

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/video/2013/apr/26/bitcoin-currency-moves-offline-berlin-video

How's this for look at the future in the present. Hopefully it might shut up the "it's only for drugs" brigade.

srsly78

pH wrote: »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/video/2013/apr/26/bitcoin-currency-moves-offline-berlin-video

How's this for look at the future in the present. Hopefully it might shut up the "it's only for drugs" brigade.

It's only for drugs :rolleyes:

Jonny7

Apart from the drugs and few token online sellers, what non profit-making benefits are there to a pseudo-currency that can lose (or gain) 30% in a day?

Ironically, without the regulation and mechanisms, it remains highly unstable and thus attracts all the greed and pure capitalists looking to make a quick buck

Dr Silly Bollox MD

https://www.khanacademy.org/science/core-finance/money-and-banking/bitcoin/v/bitcoin-overview

tadcan

From my perspective, the internet hit the headlines around 93/94 as this wondrous thing that would change the world. So a system to change how money works isn't strange to me. There has always been an initial barrier to entry for new technology, until it gets simplified or so popular it becomes common place. Another strength of the web is niche products that can exist with a small user base, unlike previous products which needed mass adoption to work.

One of the concerns is if Bitcoins will be traded more for products than speculation, or if it will just disappear. I think that adoption will grow over time as the support services develop and the word gets out. The open nature of the web, gives time for development and it fills a need to have a way to deal in currency world wide, that is cheaper and faster. Instead of the traditional nation based banks that can charge for money conversion and transfer.

Maybe it's naive to just presume this is just another way the internet is redefining how we live. For me that's just a given. The world is changing quickly around us.

Dr Silly Bollox MD

Who's Building Bitcoin? An Inside Look at Bitcoin's Open Source Development

Read more: http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/who...#ixzz2SqGRB0Qs

Capt'n Midnight

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/06/net-us-bitcoin-regulation-idUSBRE9450Y520130506

(Reuters) - The top U.S. derivatives regulator is considering whether the Bitcoin virtual currency should be subject to its rules, a top official at the agency said.
...
"Here's what I know for sure: we could regulate it if we wanted. That is very clear,"
...
The U.S. Treasury Department in March said that Bitcoin exchanges would be subject to the same money laundering rules that govern money services business like Western Union.

oops...
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/02/bitcoin_mining_game_client/

ESEA Gaming, admitted on Wednesday that its software client had been running Bitcoin-mining algorithms on customer PCs since April 14, generating over $3,700 worth of the virtual currency – not to mention a likely uptick in the electricity bills of the unwitting punters whose graphics cards' GPUs been forced to mine the virtual currency.

moneymad

First #Bitcoin, now #AmazonCoins! http://bit.ly/140QL3V .
Opencoin looks like it will be huge.

Prof Nincom Poop Ph.D

moneymad wrote: »

First #Bitcoin, now #AmazonCoins! http://bit.ly/140QL3V .
Opencoin looks like it will be huge.

Their's a load of them now. Good thing apparently.

A guide to some other cryptocurrencies


Good few alternatives to silkroad now aswell. Silk Road Administrator has given a few comments around the place, very very brief, I wonder has he heard about that new software I was reading about they are pointing at underground hacker sites/Message Boards to try and identify people by their writing styles. Everyone is unique apparently.

Capt'n Midnight

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/15/mt_gox_us_court/

The Department of Homeland Security has frozen an online trade route between US citizens and MtGox - the world's largest exchange of crypto-currency Bitcoin.
...
The warrant against the Mutum account effectively halted transfers of money between the popular bitcoin exchange and Dwolla users.

Capt'n Midnight

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/17/google_wallet/

Google has integrated its payment Wallet with Gmail, enabling PayPal-style transactions from within the Gmail interface, and to any over-18 American with an email address and a Google Wallet account.
...
Transfers are free, as long as one is prepared to give Google unfettered access to one's current account. Bringing a credit card into the picture will cost 2.9 per cent with a minimum rate of 30 cents per transaction.

The service will roll out across US accounts over the next few months, with Google hoping for organic growth as every received payment activates another user.

It's worth noting that everyone who has shopped at Google Play already has a Wallet account.

Prof Nincom Poop Ph.D

Creator outed, maybe.

http://qz.com/86255/the-mysterious-creator-of-bitcoin-could-be-japanese-mathematician-shinichi-mochizuki-says-the-inventor-of-hypertext/
http://www.businessinsider.com/did-shinichi-mochizuki-invent-bitcoin-2013-5

fergalr

Prof Nincom Poop Ph.D wrote: »

Creator outed, maybe.

http://qz.com/86255/the-mysterious-creator-of-bitcoin-could-be-japanese-mathematician-shinichi-mochizuki-says-the-inventor-of-hypertext/
http://www.businessinsider.com/did-shinichi-mochizuki-invent-bitcoin-2013-5

Hardly any evidence offered. Seems unlikely. I think thats just a waste of time.

Prof Nincom Poop Ph.D

http://chartgirl.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/SATOSHI_large.jpg

Prof Nincom Poop Ph.D

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1ez6p4/we_are_the_hosts_of_the_lets_talk_bitcoin_show_we/

Capt'n Midnight

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/29/okpay_suspends_bitcoin_processing/

OKPay suspends payment processing to all Bitcoin exchanges
...
The headline on the notice says the suspension is temporary, but to hear Mt. Gox tell it, it may be some time before OKPay resumes business with the Bitcoin community.
...
On Tuesday, federal prosecutors shut down the alternative online payment network Liberty Reserve and arrested three of its founders, describing the company as a $6bn global money-laundering operation.

While Liberty Reserve didn't have any direct connection to Bitcoin payment processing, many in the Bitcoin community worry that the incident is a signal that the government is increasing its scrutiny of alternative payment schemes and that Bitcoin could be its next target.

alb

Prof Nincom Poop Ph.D wrote: »

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1ez6p4/we_are_the_hosts_of_the_lets_talk_bitcoin_show_we/

from that link:

bitcoin is to money, what email is to the post office, what skype is to phones, what youtube is to TV.

If this analogy holds true, every one of the 18 million coins will be worth quite a bit.

alb

alb wrote: »

from that link:



If this analogy holds true, every one of the 18 million coins will be worth quite a bit.

You can already transfer money electronically, though. Some people can go days without handling money. What's the difference with bitcoin, other than it being much less stable? Were you to use Bitcoins for financial transactions in the same fashion as a credit or debit card then you would be still likely to be paying some sort of fee.

Capt'n Midnight

alb wrote: »

If this analogy holds true, every one of the 18 million coins will be worth quite a bit.

IF

but it breaks down very quickly when you remember that it's usefulness as a medium of exchange is reduced if people hoard them. And the only special thing about bitcoins is that it's first to market , and sort of in use, every other property can be replicated.

alb

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

You can already transfer money electronically, though. Some people can go days without handling money. What's the difference with bitcoin, other than it being much less stable? Were you to use Bitcoins for financial transactions in the same fashion as a credit or debit card then you would be still likely to be paying some sort of fee.

One difference is that the government and banks control the money supply - they can create new money diluting your fiat currency such as euros whenever they like. Another is that with bitcoin you can send money to anyone in the world close to instantly with little or no fee, and no 3rd party intermediate.

alb

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

IF

but it breaks down very quickly when you remember that it's usefulness as a medium of exchange is reduced if people hoard them. And the only special thing about bitcoins is that it's first to market , and sort of in use, every other property can be replicated.

Gold is not particularly useful as a medium for exchange and plenty of people hoard it, it still has value. Once enough traction is gained in terms of a perceived value it can be self propagating for any scarce resource.

Sure, bitcoin was first and is not necessarily the best crypto currency, but there has already been many others launched and so far only litecoin comes anywhere close to the same traction as bitcoin. I'm not afraid of this, there's room for many crypto currencies just as there are many fiat currencies. Anyone can launch a forum such such as boards.ie tomorrow - BB software is open source, and there's more advanced BB software now (http://www.discourse.org/ for example) than the one boards uses. Is it easy to do so take all of boards users? - not so much.

Capt'n Midnight

alb wrote: »

Is it easy to do so take all of boards users? - not so much.

Joining boards is free.

More than half of all the bitcoins that will ever exist are already being held. It costs real money to join. An until it's used as a stable medium of exchange the value is in hoping that others want to join.

Yes there is a network effect. But far bigger networks could be build tomorrow. Imagine something like Facebookcoins

scamalert

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Joining boards is free.

More than half of all the bitcoins that will ever exist are already being held. It costs real money to join. An until it's used as a stable medium of exchange the value is in hoping that others want to join.

Yes there is a network effect. But far bigger networks could be build tomorrow. Imagine something like Facebookcoins

would cause same effect as bitcoin network,only while someone would be willing to accept them as payment and give them value would they exist.
Government based currency is only currency that can sustain stability to some extent,most would argue of it loosing value to inflation,and so on,but longterm you are protected and safe using it,where bitcoin became business where people mine them like mmorpg games require you to grind for gold.