Was this inappropriate ?

Shinaynay

Today i had to go to a medical centre in town on my lunch (as opposed to my own docs) as I was feeling like sh/te.

I told the doctor (male) that I thought I had a sinus infection which was heading in to my ears.

He asked me to remove my shirt and I was a bit like 'ehh what?' But I unbuttoned it till there was like 2 buttons still closed at the bottom & he said 'all the way' so i had to open my whole shirt and stand there infront of a stranger with my bra hanging out ! Then he proceeded to basically put the stethoscope where my heart was!?

Surely there was no reason for me to open my shirt?

The weird thing is - about 6 months ago I was suffering from kidney problems so i visited this same place and he asked me to lie down, unbutton my jeans and pull up my jumper and proceeded to feel around the lower stomach.

I'm just wondering if it was just me being prickly or was this bang out of order? I should probably add I've suffered both conditions before and I don't think I was ever made to do either of those things.

Anyone experience anything similar ? If so, what did you do?
I can't stop thinking something wasn't right about this?

OU812

As a general rule of thumb, I think if something feels inappropriate on incorrect or just "off", then it generally is.

Having said that, I personally think people are way too hung up on "he/she was looking at my bits" when in reality, it's misconceived.

Did he listen to your lungs too ? I'm not sure why the heart would get a spin & not the lungs (not a doctor so maybe there's a valid reason), but I would have thought the lungs would get a listen to in any case of an infection in the breathing system.

The lower stomach thing is also easily explained by kidney problems which can be representative of a bigger issue.

Drop back in & speak to a nurse or the doctor himself & explain your discomfort (remembering it could be just you) & ask her/him to explain why it was necessary.

Tigger99

Sorry il but I think thats perfectly normal. You've sinus problems and he checks your heart/breathing. You've kidney problems and he checks your front in case it feels like a kidney infection.

Sonics2k

Shirt buttoned all the way down us odd, but the rest sounds correct, even when checking your kidneys.

Posy

Shinaynay wrote: »

The weird thing is - about 6 months ago I was suffering from kidney problems so i visited this same place and he asked me to lie down, unbutton my jeans and pull up my jumper and proceeded to feel around the lower stomach.

I don't know about the other situation, but when I had my first bad kidney infection my family doctor did that. It's just part of the general examination. It's happened since with other GP's and is routine as far as I know.
Mine felt so far down my abdomen that he was at the pubic region. I was so mortified being a shy and awkward teen the first time I encountered this!

Zombrex

Shinaynay wrote: »

Today i had to go to a medical centre in town on my lunch (as opposed to my own docs) as I was feeling like sh/te.

I told the doctor (male) that I thought I had a sinus infection which was heading in to my ears.

He asked me to remove my shirt and I was a bit like 'ehh what?' But I unbuttoned it till there was like 2 buttons still closed at the bottom & he said 'all the way' so i had to open my whole shirt and stand there infront of a stranger with my bra hanging out ! Then he proceeded to basically put the stethoscope where my heart was!?

Surely there was no reason for me to open my shirt?

The weird thing is - about 6 months ago I was suffering from kidney problems so i visited this same place and he asked me to lie down, unbutton my jeans and pull up my jumper and proceeded to feel around the lower stomach.

I'm just wondering if it was just me being prickly or was this bang out of order? I should probably add I've suffered both conditions before and I don't think I was ever made to do either of those things.

Anyone experience anything similar ? If so, what did you do?
I can't stop thinking something wasn't right about this?

Sounds like he was checking your lungs, which would be standard for a sinus infection (check if it has gone to your lungs and causing a chest infection). Though normally you would check your back and get you to breath in and out, rather than checking you on the front. So yeah sounds a little weird.

You should always feel free to ask the doctor what is he checking for and why is he doing a procedure. If your doctor gets snotty about this then that is a good reason to take your money some where else.

eviltwin

I'm not a medical expert, maybe there is a reason why they need your shirt open but I would always say no if asked to do something I don't feel totally okay with. Even with female doctors.

Oryx

The guy could just have a bad manner, rather than being a perv. But its important to remember that you can always say 'No' or 'Why?' to a medical professional. In fact you should always question them if something they do (or prescribe for you) does not make sense.

username123

My old GP used to put her hand in under your clothes with the stethoscope to listen to your heart but my new one asks you to unbutton. I commented on it and she said that she is not comfortable rummaging under peoples clothes as she could break jewellery or pop buttons or tear underwear etc....

I certainly would not be remotely worried about having to take anything off in front of a doctor and personally Id feel that thinking of it in terms of "so i had to open my whole shirt and stand there infront of a stranger with my bra hanging out" is not really a helpful way to be thinking about medical examinations. A doctor is a professional. They examine bodies. They cant examine them if they cant get at them. If you feel a medical professional has been inappropriate in their examination then you can and should complain to the medical council.

But unbuttoning a shirt to use a sthetoscope is not something to be concerned about imo. Nor is feeling around the stomach for a kidney infection.

However, if a doctor makes you feel uncomfortable then dont go to that doctor. The bottom line is that you should feel comfortable with your doctor because you may need to discuss things that you feel vulnerable about, and you cant do that if you feel uncomfortable with the person.

SligoLady

I had a bad kidney infection a few weeks ago and my GP didn't examine me like that at all, she tested a urine sample (which is also uncomfortable in a different way, I mean who likes handing over a container of their pee to someone else?) But then on the other hand I had a badly ruptured disc in my spine a couple of years ago which had hit the sciatic nerve and I was losing power in my leg and had one slip of bladder control. My GP referred me to A&E where I was examined in the most intimate place by a doctor which I found horrendous and always feel a bit weird thinking about it as I wonder was it really necessary?

I wouldn't feel comfortable unbuttoning my top to have my heart/lungs checked either but I also don't think I'd be comfortable questioning or saying no to a doctor if they asked me to. I had to get my blood pressure tested for my pill prescription renewal and I'd worn a top with tight long sleeves that day so couldn't roll it up and rather than have me take off my top the doctor said I could pop back in any time I was passing so I reckon it's down to the individual doctor and howthey view you, either as just another anatomy to be checked and diagnosed or as an actual person that may be conscious of being exposed. It's the same with nurses and smears, some will give you a towel to cover yourself up with or leave the room while you're dressing/undressing and others won't.

If you're not comfortable with that particular doctor then I wouldn't go back.

eviltwin

This is going waaayy OT slightly but I watched a movie recently called Compliance - a true story - where a young girl working in a fast food place was subjected to a sexual assault as a result of a phone call where the caller, claiming to be a policeman, claimed she had stolen money from a customer and over the course of a few hours had other staff members strip her etc. It ended with the fiance of the manageress brutally assaulting her just because the "policeman" told him to. The whole thing was caught on secuity camera and is pretty harrowing.

It just went to show how someone can be coerced into doing something they aren't totally okay with because someone in authority tells them its okay.

We all know that there have been many cases of doctors taking advantage of patients often in full knowledge of other people - look at the Neary case.

I think if you do ever feel unsure you have to call it out and check the reasons. Better to feel like a bit of a numpty for asking than walk out feeling you were violated.

clairefontaine

eviltwin wrote: »

This is going waaayy OT slightly but I watched a movie recently called Compliance - a true story - where a young girl working in a fast food place was subjected to a sexual assault as a result of a phone call where the caller, claiming to be a policeman, claimed she had stolen money from a customer and over the course of a few hours had other staff members strip her etc. It ended with the fiance of the manageress brutally assaulting her just because the "policeman" told him to. The whole thing was caught on secuity camera and is pretty harrowing.

It just went to show how someone can be coerced into doing something they aren't totally okay with because someone in authority tells them its okay.

We all know that there have been many cases of doctors taking advantage of patients often in full knowledge of other people - look at the Neary case.

I think if you do ever feel unsure you have to call it out and check the reasons. Better to feel like a bit of a numpty for asking than walk out feeling you were violated.

I agree with this, it's really about what you are comfortable with or not.

You can always ask them to change the protocol and say you are not comfortable with the one as it stands.

I walked out of an exam room because I didn't like their protocol, as in there weren't any.

eviltwin

eviltwin wrote: »

This is going waaayy OT slightly but I watched a movie recently called Compliance - a true story - where a young girl working in a fast food place was subjected to a sexual assault as a result of a phone call where the caller, claiming to be a policeman, claimed she had stolen money from a customer and over the course of a few hours had other staff members strip her etc. It ended with the fiance of the manageress brutally assaulting her just because the "policeman" told him to. The whole thing was caught on secuity camera and is pretty harrowing.
.

Good christ, just read up on that.
The fiance got dumped and 5 years in jail, good enough

ardinn

I suffer kidney stones alot - Male - Usually ends up with some fella or nurse having a good grope of my balls!!

wallycharlo

Shinaynay wrote: »

... Then he proceeded to basically put the stethoscope where my heart was!? ...

Did the fact that he listened to your heart seem inappropriate to you? It seems like a completely reasonable thing to do considering your symptoms.

Same for the Kidney issues. In fact if he had not done such an exam I would find it quite worrying ...

dfx-

eviltwin wrote: »

This is going waaayy OT slightly but I watched a movie recently called Compliance - a true story - where a young girl working in a fast food place was subjected to a sexual assault as a result of a phone call where the caller, claiming to be a policeman, claimed she had stolen money from a customer and over the course of a few hours had other staff members strip her etc. It ended with the fiance of the manageress brutally assaulting her just because the "policeman" told him to. The whole thing was caught on secuity camera and is pretty harrowing.

:eek:

Captain Albection

SligoLady wrote: »

I wonder was it really necessary?

Yes, this was used to determine the extent of neurological compromise.

Essectially, they're trying to determine if this is a neurosurgical emergency or not. If there wasn't an issue, then it was a peripheral problem and self limiting.

If there was an issue there, you could have had a central spinal problem and would require urgent neurosurgical review. Otherwise there may have been a risk of you becoming incontinent to both urine and faeces. As well as the risk of ending up in a wheelchair.

These exams are not pleasant but they are necessary to prevent serious suffering sometimes.

SligoLady

Captain Albection wrote: »

Yes, this was used to determine the extent of neurological compromise.

Essectially, they're trying to determine if this is a neurosurgical emergency or not. If there wasn't an issue, then it was a peripheral problem and self limiting.

If there was an issue there, you could have had a central spinal problem and would require urgent neurosurgical review. Otherwise there may have been a risk of you becoming incontinent to both urine and faeces. As well as the risk of ending up in a wheelchair.

These exams are not pleasant but they are necessary to prevent serious suffering sometimes.

Thank you for the clear explanation. I wish it had been explained to me like that at the time.. I wasn't actually given an explanation by the doctor so I had to come to my own conclusions with Google's help and it wasn't mentioned on any sites that I looked at that a doctor would be checking things in that way hence why I wondered..
I know Google's never the best place to self diagnose though!

username123

SligoLady wrote: »

Thank you for the clear explanation. I wish it had been explained to me like that at the time.. I wasn't actually given an explanation by the doctor so I had to come to my own conclusions with Google's help and it wasn't mentioned on any sites that I looked at that a doctor would be checking things in that way hence why I wondered..
I know Google's never the best place to self diagnose though!

They should be clear but if theyre not, you can ask them yourself.

Captain Albection

username123 wrote: »

They should be clear but if theyre not, you can ask them yourself.

Agree with this.

And would like to point out that it's not something to be nervous about either as it's not insulting.

I've only ever had it twice, the first time was that it was the first time anyone had ever asked her this while in hospital ("do you have stairs in your house?", asked because of the risk of her falling) and the second was because of something that he'd had done multiple times (percussing his lung fields from the back) but never knew what on earth it actually was for).

Larianne

Captain Albection wrote: »

Agree with this.

And would like to point out that it's not something to be nervous about either as it's not insulting.

That's all well and good but patients are put in very vunerable positions during examinations. It should be up to the doctor to provide information on what they are going to do and why, and also to ask for permission to listen to someone's chest etc. and not just ordering someone to unbutton their blouse.

If he had of said "So now I need to listen to your chest to get a idea of what your lungs sound like. I need you to unbutton your blouse so I can properly listen to them, if that is okay?"

username123

Larianne wrote: »

That's all well and good but patients are put in very vunerable positions. It should be up to the doctor to provide information on what they are going to do and why, and also to ask for permission to listen to someone's chest etc. and not just ordering someone to unbutton their blouse.

If he had of said "So now I need to listen to your chest to get a idea of what your lungs sound like. I need you to unbutton your blouse so I can properly listen to them, if that is okay?"

Doctors are human as well and like any other sphere you will have some who are better with people than others. In public hospitals they canbe so busy they barely acknowledge the patient sometimes.

But I agree with you - although its an idealistic view.

Larianne

username123 wrote: »

Doctors are human as well and like any other sphere you will have some who are better with people than others. In public hospitals they canbe so busy they barely acknowledge the patient sometimes.

But I agree with you - although its an idealistic view.

I know that they are human. But even doing it so they are covering themselves legally.

If you get into a habit of examining someone a certain way, it will come autmatically to you, whether it's natural or not.

username123

Larianne wrote: »

I know that they are human. But even doing it so they are covering themselves legally.

If you get into a habit of examining someone a certain way, it will come autmatically to you, whether it's natural or not.

I think overall doctors are improving in how they deal with people. My parents would never have questioned a doctor, my father in law still wont. But I would no problem, I think doctors are not the great authority figures they once were - in a positive way.

dharma200

Shinaynay wrote: »

Today i had to go to a medical centre in town on my lunch (as opposed to my own docs) as I was feeling like sh/te.

I told the doctor (male) that I thought I had a sinus infection which was heading in to my ears.

He asked me to remove my shirt and I was a bit like 'ehh what?' But I unbuttoned it till there was like 2 buttons still closed at the bottom & he said 'all the way' so i had to open my whole shirt and stand there infront of a stranger with my bra hanging out ! Then he proceeded to basically put the stethoscope where my heart was!?

Surely there was no reason for me to open my shirt?

The weird thing is - about 6 months ago I was suffering from kidney problems so i visited this same place and he asked me to lie down, unbutton my jeans and pull up my jumper and proceeded to feel around the lower stomach.

I'm just wondering if it was just me being prickly or was this bang out of order? I should probably add I've suffered both conditions before and I don't think I was ever made to do either of those things.

Anyone experience anything similar ? If so, what did you do?
I can't stop thinking something wasn't right about this?

I can see nothing wrong with this atall??? bang out of order that he checked your heart rate and tenderness in your abdomen? If this is abnormal then I would advise any doctors or potential doctors on here to now never ever examine any patients heart rate or abdomen unless there is a witness present. waut until you have kids if you havent all ready... cant think of any kind of gratification this person would get even if he was a major perv.... If you felt a little uncomfortable dont go back.... if you were to complain i suspect it wouldnt get past a first hearing as it is normal procedure to check both heart rate and kidney complaints in this manner, he could have been checking for a number of things in your abdomen, and I have always had to take my shirt/top off when heart rate is being taken... sorry if thats not what you want to hear and if you felt uncomfortable then in my advise I would be more assertive in the future.. I am a bit forceful as I would think that someone who has studied for probably 10 years or more is hardly likely to compromise their whole career by listening to a heart rate, and potentially the kind of complaint you could make because of your own unease could ruin someones life and career for absolutley nothing...

Pretzill

Shinaynay wrote: »

He asked me to remove my shirt and I was a bit like 'ehh what?' But I unbuttoned it till there was like 2 buttons still closed at the bottom & he said 'all the way' so i had to open my whole shirt and stand there infront of a stranger with my bra hanging out ! Then he proceeded to basically put the stethoscope where my heart was!?

Surely there was no reason for me to open my shirt?

As an asthma sufferer I'm well used to having my chest and back listened to. I also suffer from sinus and the two can crossover, at times. Normally the doc will say I'll just take a listen...then I'll hoike up the top - it can be a bit embarrassing but I've been through much worse - it's far more appropriate that you do it yourself obviously that's probably why the doc asked you to unbutton your blouse. But it seems fairly routine to check your breathing if you have a sinus problem, and also to check your tummy if you have pain in the kidney region - if you are uncomfortable you should ask to see a female GP the next time.

The Big Red Button

If I'm handing over X amount of money to a doctor, ideally I'd love to be able to walk in and say, "These are my symptoms, please fix me." And let him examine me and sort it out.

Obviously, in order to do so,(s)he'll need access to my body to assess my condition. I assume they see it as it is - their job - not in a sexual way.

In the OPs case:
If you're complaining about sinus infection, of course they're going to want to be able to examine your torso, chest, and neck area.
If you're complaining about your kidneys, of course they're going to want to look at that area!

If you weren't asked to do so when you suffered these conditions before - maybe your previous doctor was less thorough?

Certainly I'd ask a doctor about his reasoning, if he wanted me to do something, and I was unsure.

Don't see a thing wrong with the situations outlined in your OP, though.

xLexie

Yeah you're going to a doctor to find out what's wrong, not to tell them what's wrong. I was recently having a procedure done (not even gynae) and the male doctor didnt proceed with the examination until the female nurse was present, I think it's kind of sad that's the culture we live in now, doctors so worried about being accused of acting inappropriate they have a person there with them.

Teyla Emmagan

I always ask what the doctor's looking or testing for when they start poking me. Half curiosity and half because it helps me relax when I actually know what's going on and what's coming up next. Some doctors will automatically tell you what they're doing, but no doctor I have ever met has minded being asked.

--LOS--

There is nothing wrong with either of those things you described imo. I think people just sometimes over-analyse a doctor's intentions, it's far more logical to think of it as ....that is just their job, they folllow these kinds of routines all day every day, they could care less about seeing you in your undies. Whenever I go to renew my prescription for the pill I know they're going to take my blood pressure so I make sure to wear a top that's not going to restrict that, it's just easier for everyone involved. I think in the same way that you would show up to the doctors clean, just wear clothes that are easy to take on and off, you'll feel more comfortable, it'll be less of an ordeal, know that it's natural to feel a bit self-conscious in these sorts of circumstances.