Teaching as a profession in Ireland.....positives, negatives..worth pursuing?

mj84

Would just like to get feedback from teachers out there, I have been reading numerous threads on this about secondary teaching in particular, posters seem to become antagonistic quite easily, highly irritable and vitriolic in some instances, I appreciate the reasons for this, however I have a list of questions here (interspersed with some observations from a brief period of teaching that some might like to answer).... be honest, don't sit on the fence...

1.Would you recommend a person to enter teaching today or to pursue a pgde?....(please refrain from, if you really are passionate about it then do, give an honest opinion, eg. it would be a waste of money, no the current situation will steadily improve go ahead, subjects,...etc)

2.What are the personality traits that are needed to become a teacher? From experience I would imagine boundless energy would be one of them because from what I have seen Teachers say on full time hours are not on 22 but probably all things considered spend 40- 50 hours a week working u always have to be on the ball, thick skin another and i'm not talking about dealing with students...Schools especially big ones are places of high tension, of course they are, cliques of teachers, talking about other teachers behind their backs, the smallest oversight or something you might not even have considered can be viewed as an insult......a real passion for working with young people.......not some pie in the sky oh I'd love to work with young people that some people come out with, I was in this brigade, ideaslistic, inspiring the young minds of the future, and when it actually came to it I found this not to be the case, whilst I enjoyed the fun and some of the absolute gems that come out of young peoples mouths, (out of the mouths of babes and all that) I felt the everyday of dealing with trivial stuff (sit down properly, stop talking) to be absolute drudgery....trying to please 25-30 people in 40 minutes and the majority of them couldn't care less what you are doing( before the maybe your teaching methods weren't up to scratch brigade enter, this is not true)....which leads me onto my next point....preparing what you think are really good lessons for hours on end and naturally enough the children couldn't care less, soul destroying stuff for any normal human being of course some will appreciate it but they are the exception....so hard to impress, interest children/teenagers nowadays....which leads me onto my next point

3.Do you feel totally under-valued and under siege from Joe Public and his archaic ideas......teaching is easy, 3 months holidays, priviliged profession, blah blah, surely this must at least irk you or at most absolutely drive you demented......

4.Is mental health a big issue for teachers in Ireland, I have seen startling statistics for England in regard to this, of course we are aware of the stigma in Ireland, I don't understand how (considering the above points) teachers could not at some point....

5.Do you ever feel you are out of work in as much as, is it hard to just put it out of your head or does something always occupy some headspace...such as why can so and so not get this, what's wrong with donal at the moment, what will I be doing tomorrow with this class...

6.What is the most important thing in teaching.........subject knowledge, relationships with students (I suspect most will say this), discipline, entusiasm.....I had teachers who had no enthusiasm for the job whatsoever, and whilst some may have got satisfaction out of the fact that they were helping some young people, i know for a fact that others couldn't care less, and I used to think to myself how in the wide earthly world have they taught for so long.....does cynicism grab hold...it did for me very quickly...

7.How many people just see teaching as the progression from an arts degree but give little thought to how suitable they are for teaching, I would imagine quite a few? Is there anyway to combat this? Leading on from this...

8.How oversubscribed is teaching? Is there any numbers for this, teacher unemployment, is there really still openings in some subjects such as maths and irish? As an ethical question, is it right that people pay almost 7,000 euro and more to pursue it with no chance of employment, it is surely the free market gone mad, I know the government will never suspend the Pgde, but do people think economics aside that this would make sense? Lets round this up....

9. For experienced teachers, say you had your time over again, with todays conditions, little job security, discipline and respect for teachers probably a lot lower than it was in days gone by, the stress, being under appreciated, poor enough pay, would you do it all again?

PS. I hope this sparks plenty of lively, good-natured debate......

2011abc

In a word :NO!

seavill

mj84 wrote: »

Would just like to get feedback from teachers out there, I have been reading numerous threads on this about secondary teaching in particular, posters seem to become antagonistic quite easily, highly irritable and vitriolic in some instances, I appreciate the reasons for this, however I have a list of questions here (interspersed with some observations from a brief period of teaching that some might like to answer).... be honest, don't sit on the fence...

1.Would you recommend a person to enter teaching today or to pursue a pgde?....(please refrain from, if you really are passionate about it then do, give an honest opinion, eg. it would be a waste of money, no the current situation will steadily improve go ahead, subjects,...etc)

2.What are the personality traits that are needed to become a teacher? From experience I would imagine boundless energy would be one of them because from what I have seen Teachers say on full time hours are not on 22 but probably all things considered spend 40- 50 hours a week working u always have to be on the ball, thick skin another and i'm not talking about dealing with students...Schools especially big ones are places of high tension, of course they are, cliques of teachers, talking about other teachers behind their backs, the smallest oversight or something you might not even have considered can be viewed as an insult......a real passion for working with young people.......not some pie in the sky oh I'd love to work with young people that some people come out with, I was in this brigade, ideaslistic, inspiring the young minds of the future, and when it actually came to it I found this not to be the case, whilst I enjoyed the fun and some of the absolute gems that come out of young peoples mouths, (out of the mouths of babes and all that) I felt the everyday of dealing with trivial stuff (sit down properly, stop talking) to be absolute drudgery....trying to please 25-30 people in 40 minutes and the majority of them couldn't care less what you are doing( before the maybe your teaching methods weren't up to scratch brigade enter, this is not true)....which leads me onto my next point....preparing what you think are really good lessons for hours on end and naturally enough the children couldn't care less, soul destroying stuff for any normal human being of course some will appreciate it but they are the exception....so hard to impress, interest children/teenagers nowadays....which leads me onto my next point

3.Do you feel totally under-valued and under siege from Joe Public and his archaic ideas......teaching is easy, 3 months holidays, priviliged profession, blah blah, surely this must at least irk you or at most absolutely drive you demented......

4.Is mental health a big issue for teachers in Ireland, I have seen startling statistics for England in regard to this, of course we are aware of the stigma in Ireland, I don't understand how (considering the above points) teachers could not at some point....

5.Do you ever feel you are out of work in as much as, is it hard to just put it out of your head or does something always occupy some headspace...such as why can so and so not get this, what's wrong with donal at the moment, what will I be doing tomorrow with this class...

6.What is the most important thing in teaching.........subject knowledge, relationships with students (I suspect most will say this), discipline, entusiasm.....I had teachers who had no enthusiasm for the job whatsoever, and whilst some may have got satisfaction out of the fact that they were helping some young people, i know for a fact that others couldn't care less, and I used to think to myself how in the wide earthly world have they taught for so long.....does cynicism grab hold...it did for me very quickly...

7.How many people just see teaching as the progression from an arts degree but give little thought to how suitable they are for teaching, I would imagine quite a few? Is there anyway to combat this? Leading on from this...

8.How oversubscribed is teaching? Is there any numbers for this, teacher unemployment, is there really still openings in some subjects such as maths and irish? As an ethical question, is it right that people pay almost 7,000 euro and more to pursue it with no chance of employment, it is surely the free market gone mad, I know the government will never suspend the Pgde, but do people think economics aside that this would make sense? Lets round this up....

9. For experienced teachers, say you had your time over again, with todays conditions, little job security, discipline and respect for teachers probably a lot lower than it was in days gone by, the stress, being under appreciated, poor enough pay, would you do it all again?

PS. I hope this sparks plenty of lively, good-natured debate......

To be honest I read the whole post but you lost me at your first question

My answer to your first question is yes if you are passionate about it, do it becuase it will always be in your mind otherwise, and unless you really want to do it you wont last more than a few years.

So seen as you told us you didn't want to hear that answer I'll leave it there

Mardy Bum

Just to start with your first question.

I would recommend the PDE to someone who has at least a vague idea of what teaching entails and some experience even if it just amounts to subbing. If you have worked with teenagers it will give you some idea of what to expect. I would thing very carefully if the only reason for pursuing the diploma is because you have finished an Arts degree. The diploma will take two years to complete from 2014 onwards and will probably cost around 10-12k. The course, depending on where you take it, can be extremely intense and draining.

I would encourage a person to enter the profession if they have had experience with teens, are open to travel widely for a job, are a very organised person and can keep control of their temper.

unknowngirl!!

1. Personally I would recommend teaching. I love my job and enjoy everyday. The school dynamic fascinates me and I love how we play such an important part in the community. I definitely think it is a profession worth perusing.

2. I think you need to be fairly extrovert and outgoing. Energy is important but if you're sensible you can manage your time efficiently and be productive during the day. However, no matter how much work you do within the 22 you will always end up doing more with corrections, planning, extra curricular etc. I also think a sense of humour is important. You need to be able to take certain things in a light hearted manner, you can't be serious all day every day!

3. I think teaching is not viewed as the important profession it is. This doesn't bother me though as I don't feel the need to justify what I do to people who have no clue how a school actually works. Most teachers are hard-working people. There are a few who give the job a bad name but its the same in every profession.

Teachers, in comparison to traditional expert professionals, are significantly differentiated in terms of their professional training, induction process into the field, professional autonomy, practitioner-client relationship, and social status. Considering teaching as a ‘profession’ is a much debated subject in society. Teaching is often regarded to be somewhere between a profession and an unskilled labour. Luckily teachers are virtually unanimous in their belief that teaching is a profession.

4. Mental health in teaching is a big issue. Teacher burnout is a problem and the same amount of research hasn't been conducted here compared to in the UK. Most teachers begin their career with a high energy level – desirous of making their subject matter exciting to their students and demonstrating to them that they genuinely care for them as individuals. However, professional depletion – accompanied by exhaustion, cynicism and inefficacy, often replaces the joy of teaching. The tragedy of it all is the fact that there are numerous ways to identify and treat teacher burnout.


5. Yes I can keep work and private life separate. I do often think of school if I see something on the news or read something interesting but I like to bring the outside world into the class. That being said on a night out I'd never think of school!

6. I think caring about your students and being passionate about your subjects are the most important things in teaching. If you love your subject its hard not to enthusiastic.

7. I did a 4 year concurrent teacher education degree so this does not apply to me.

8. Teaching is oversubscribed but you can be lucky. This is my second year teaching and I got a contract for the year which was originally 11 hours. I'm now on 22 and things are looking good for next year

9. As I'm only teaching 2 years I'm not in the best position to comment here!

spurious

I'll just take number 9.
Would I do it all again? Probably not and it saddens me to say that, because in my early career in the 80s despite teaching children from some of the poorest areas in Dublin, I loved it.

The daily litany of casual abuse and general disrespect involved in working in some schools nowadays would put me off recommending teaching to anyone I cared about.

whiteandlight

Christ OP, TL;DR for a lot of that.

A couple of points from me (probably not in order of the OP)

1. Don't do the diploma unless you are absolutely sure it is the career you want. There are no jobs in any subject and the situation is deteriorating.

2. You need patience. A lot of it. And the ability to bite your tongue and keep your thoughts in your own head. And the ability to laugh, otherwise you may end up crying.

3. Lack of respect for the profession in general is draining/depressing. You need a thick skin and good debating skills-even among your friends-to support the profession.

4. Would I do it again? Yes. I think. Ask me again in two years time. The recent cuts and the cuts coming are seriously making me question my career choice

mathepac

Teaching in Ireland is not a profession, it's kinda like a factory job but without the long hours, responsibilities or low pay.

whiteandlight

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not just trying to inflame posters but just to take you up on one of your points, would you like to explain how exactly you think that teaching has no responsibilities?

whiteandlight

As has been posted in numerous threads and is highlighted in the media through the unions; even during the boom it was taking secondary school teachers 7 years on average to get full time permanent employment. I am four years qualified and at least three off a CID (not even a real permanent job as they used to be).
I guarantee you this is significantly longer now. None of my friends from college, even those ahead of me have a permanent job, in fact only two of them are even on full hours.

lily09

Heard a very interesting statistic lately, 47% of teachers who use salary protection because of ill health do so because of mental helalth issues compared to 7% with cancer.
It can be a lonely job even when you love it.

mathepac

Musicmental85 wrote: »

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not just trying to inflame posters but just to take you up on one of your points, would you like to explain how exactly you think that teaching has no responsibilities?

I most certainly am not trying to inflame anyone, that should be patently obvious.

Teaching is not a profession, not like medics, accountants or solicitors for example. There is no professional body setting entry and performance standards and I will make the point again that getting rid of a bad teacher is nearly as difficult as it is for a new teacher to find a permanent post.

Factory workers (I used to be one, once upon a time) have constant supervision and reviews of their output and performance by supervisors and managers, QA, Health & Safety, etc. Teachers are nowhere near as closely supervised and because their "product" is rather more nebulous than the product produced by a factory worker, measuring success or failure is difficult and haphazard (exam results, inspectors, time-keeping, in-service training ??)

I have more to say but I'm under a bit of time pressure at the moment so I'll check back in.

unknowngirl!!

mathepac wrote: »

Teaching is not a profession, not like medics, accountants or solicitors for example. There is no professional body setting entry and performance standards and I will make the point again that getting rid of a bad teacher is nearly as difficult as it is for a new teacher to find a permanent post.

Most educational theory points out that the traditional professional models, such as democratic professionalism and managerial professionalism, are an ineffective, inappropriate basis for achieving professionalization of teachers. Teacher professionalism is considered in terms of the 'activist professionalism' model which considers professionalism in terms of expertise, altruism and autonomy.

chippers

mathepac wrote: »

I most certainly am not trying to inflame anyone, that should be patently obvious.

Teaching is not a profession, not like medics, accountants or solicitors for example. There is no professional body setting entry and performance standards and I will make the point again that getting rid of a bad teacher is nearly as difficult as it is for a new teacher to find a permanent post.

Factory workers (I used to be one, once upon a time) have constant supervision and reviews of their output and performance by supervisors and managers, QA, Health & Safety, etc. Teachers are nowhere near as closely supervised and because their "product" is rather more nebulous than the product produced by a factory worker, measuring success or failure is difficult and haphazard (exam results, inspectors, time-keeping, in-service training ??)

I have more to say but I'm under a bit of time pressure at the moment so I'll check back in.

This post is gas. Who is setting the performance standards of the above mentioned accountants? I don't recall any action being taken over any accountancy firms who have done some very poor work in recent years (for e.g. at Irish Nationwide). Rather they have been given more work after making a mess of it the first time.

Mardy Bum

mathepac wrote: »

I most certainly am not trying to inflame anyone, that should be patently obvious.

Teaching is not a profession, not like medics, accountants or solicitors for example. There is no professional body setting entry and performance standards and I will make the point again that getting rid of a bad teacher is nearly as difficult as it is for a new teacher to find a permanent post.

I'll be brutally honest; you don't have a notion what you are talking about. I'll leave the link below, it may come as a surprise to you!
http://www.teachingcouncil.ie/

Seanchai

Interesting to hear more experienced teachers mention the poorer behaviour of students compared to that of the students when they started their careers.

Things I love about teaching:

1) The great kids. By 'great' I always mean the workers, not the bright kids or the not-so-bright kids. The kid who keep his/her head down and works. A lot of the time they go unnoticed in class because of the students from dysfunctional homes. Watching them develop and grow in their inquisitiveness and confidence is a brilliant sight to see.

2) The polite students. Without being melodramatic, simple words of kindness from students are so rare nowadays (at least in my school), that a simple 'Thanks', 'Please' or even a respectful 'Would it be alright if...' bring everything back to basics and inspire me to be a better teacher. Give me a polite but not so bright kid over a brainy but unmannerly kid any day.

3) Parents who are heroes. The parents who raise the nicest, kindest and hardest working students imaginable, despite being surrounded by parents who raise the roughest, gruffest, most unmannerly, lost and angry children imaginable who want to take the whole world around them down with them.

4) Support in the staffroom. The support and consolation from fellow teachers makes the worst days survivable. Their experience individually and collectively is essential. Discussions on legal issues from union members familiar with contractual rights and obligations as well as the rights of the teacher when it comes to accepting a repeatedly disruptive student provide consolation and awareness of support.

5) Holidays. I wouldn't be a teacher without them. Even if they asked us to work another two months and paid us for them I'd look for a much better paying job. I'm completely knackered everyday as it is and the holidays are the sustenance, the time I can read, develop and learn about things. Most if not everybody in my group in university is earning much more than me, in many cases multiples of my salary. I don't mind that as I have the holidays to give me the freedom that I want over the economic prosperity of being in the rat race.

evolving_doors

mathepac wrote: »

Factory workers (I used to be one, once upon a time)

Me too ...when I didn;t have any qualifications... hence why i walked into the job without any real previous experience..

mathepac wrote: »

Factory workers ...have constant supervision and reviews of their output and performance by supervisors and managers, QA, Health & Safety, etc.

I gained qualifications so I need less supervision (same as QA people,health and safety people), same as any other professional too!!! doctor/dentist/nurse/solicitor etc..

as an aside which should highlight the general sentiment today in teaching...I was having a conversation the other day with another teacher about Croke Park 2 and he said "ah shur I suppose we're lucky to have a job these days" I agreed at first but now I no longer want to be the forelock tugging paddy anymore... Would you ever hear a doctor say "Ah shur we're lucky to have a job" damn right you wouldn;t. What they would say and what we should say is "They're goddam lucky to have us these days" considering the years we've put in training and practicing.

Question.. Considering the current dissolution of this profession (by cuts in hours and what was once permanent positions being divvied between junior teachers ): Would parents and future parents be happy to have a teacher for their kids who is earning little more than a factory wage and may be only on 12 hours a week for the long term (but yet be on the school premises for 9-4 every day). Do you think that this teacher has any real chance to practice their profession?

I was also thinking about the S&S whilst talking to a substitute teacher today.. at the moment she is getting some substitute work here and there and a few maternity/sick leaves .. she's glad of the experience in so many different schools but realises if the free S&S comes in with CP2, her chances of picking up any employment/experience will have evaporated. Her only hope for an intervew is retirement or death...and retirements are getting scarce enough these days

Getting back to the OP's questions

If you want to become a teacher then ...

A. Have a large financial reserve.
B. Be prepared to be hanging around for about ten years or so on half a wage before you become full time.
C. Dont intend to raise a family unless your partener is working in a solid job.
D. Future pensions will be worthless..

Although in saying all that.. maybe get your qualification.. get the heck out of Ireland, get loads of experience abroad, and then maybe return when this baby boom kicks in and the economy has picked up...

Lord TSC

mj84 wrote: »

3.Do you feel totally under-valued and under siege from Joe Public and his archaic ideas......teaching is easy, 3 months holidays, priviliged profession, blah blah, surely this must at least irk you or at most absolutely drive you demented......

mathepac wrote: »

Teaching in Ireland is not a profession, it's kinda like a factory job but without the long hours, responsibilities or low pay.

Well, at least TC got an answer to the third question :rolleyes:

tinkerbell

lily09 wrote: »

Heard a very interesting statistic lately, 47% of teachers who use salary protection because of ill health do so because of mental helalth issues compared to 7% with cancer.
It can be a lonely job even when you love it.

Yes, it's to do with stress, rather than general mental health issues. Teaching is a very stressful job. I dunno why anybody would go into it now unless that's what they absolutely have to do and are really passionate about it. Right now there are no jobs there.

mj84

Is it really that bad?? (this is just a genuine question before anyone jumps down my throat), I know for a fact that some people still enter it thinking it's a handy number for all the aforementioned reasons/falsehoods and they don't seem to want to know about all the negatives, is this just human nature, I think they have this ingrained idea in their head and the idea of becoming a teacher inspires tremendous stubborness in people, they don't really want to know the reality it seems.....as for the no jobs, there are probably now up to 3,000 people qualifying from September to September every year if you get my drift...is it still true that there will always be jobs in science, maths, and irish....is it easy to get a permanent position...nice to hear opinions.

Ambersky

I am a teacher in a very specialised area of education for children with disabilities. I really loved my work and put everything I had into it, even though it took me eleven years to become full time.
Lately I have seen big changes happening in my workplace.

I think the business model has almost won in the struggle for control over education everywhere. Some members of the general public it seems, in their resentment about how easy they perceive the work of a teacher to be, have seen the business model as the way to finally get teachers to toe the line in accountability and value for money. Unfortunately in my opinion the control of the buisness model is destroying some of the most valuable skills, creativity, spontaneity, adaptability and general humanity.
The business model appears to be built on mistrust making teachers prove how busy they are, quantify what they are doing , providing detailed paperwork and instruction manuals for every situation, forgetting that life and the best human interactions don’t happen that way. Teaching is a skill, a craft it involves being able to adapt, being able to search for different ways of looking at things and explaining them, being able to create a relationship of mutual trust with your students . Now everything has to be overanalysed and reported with weekly lesson plans, term plans, weekly monthly and yearly targets, individual education plans, assessments and corrections, incident reports, challenging behaviour charts and now teacher self evaluation.
That’s my rant over and I don’t want to turn into that aul wan complaining but if I was to advise someone on taking up teaching now, I wouldn’t know what to say, because teaching is now such a different job than when I started.

mj84

Any opinions on my last post folks?

whiteandlight

To be honest I'm wondering why you are looking for so many opinions?

evolving_doors

mj84 wrote: »

Is it really that bad?? (this is just a genuine question before anyone jumps down my throat), I know for a fact that some people still enter it thinking it's a handy number for all the aforementioned reasons/falsehoods and they don't seem to want to know about all the negatives, is this just human nature, I think they have this ingrained idea in their head and the idea of becoming a teacher inspires tremendous stubborness in people, they don't really want to know the reality it seems.....as for the no jobs, there are probably now up to 3,000 people qualifying from September to September every year if you get my drift...is it still true that there will always be jobs in science, maths, and irish....is it easy to get a permanent position...nice to hear opinions.

Ok to paraphrase most other teachers posts in this forum mj84...

Derrrrrrsss no jooooooobs in teaching
.
.
.
.
.
.
unless you know someone;)

johnjohnny

I'm wondering why you want so many opinions too

are you doing research for the department or something?

evolving_doors

johnjohnny wrote: »

I'm wondering why you want so many opinions too

are you doing research for the department or something?

My thoughts exactly although I don't see why anyone in the DES would be bothered with research...

looksee

mj84 wrote: »

Is it really that bad?? (this is just a genuine question before anyone jumps down my throat), I know for a fact that some people still enter it thinking it's a handy number for all the aforementioned reasons/falsehoods and they don't seem to want to know about all the negatives, is this just human nature, I think they have this ingrained idea in their head and the idea of becoming a teacher inspires tremendous stubborness in people, they don't really want to know the reality it seems.....as for the no jobs, there are probably now up to 3,000 people qualifying from September to September every year if you get my drift...is it still true that there will always be jobs in science, maths, and irish....is it easy to get a permanent position...nice to hear opinions.

I'm wondering if you have noticed that you have lost students before you got to the end of a sentence?

mj84

I'm not doing research for anybody but myself I can assure you....is there any truth to the statement that there will always be jobs in Irish and Maths? I would have thought that given the expertise of posters here it is quite a simple question....I read another post on this saying that Irish jobs are ten a penny....is Irish really such an outlier??

evolving_doors

mj84 wrote: »

I'm not doing research for anybody but myself I can assure you....is there any truth to the statement that there will always be jobs in Irish and Maths? I would have thought that given the expertise of posters here it is quite a simple question....I read another post on this saying that Irish jobs are ten a penny....is Irish really such an outlier??

Statistically because they are core subjects then I suppose there 'should' be more jobs... however given the fact that the Univerisities are pouring out teaching graduates, it's now a case of "come and have a go if you think your hard enough"...

Have a sconce on educationposts.ie and newspapers for jobs and see the lay of the land...might be one or 2 Irish jobs going but generally they look for a combination of 2 subjects...and come back and let us know if you ever see any permenant posts advertised.

As regards posters saying that they hear it's hard to get (maths/irish) teachers..it's kind of like the people who are saying it's desperate hard to get substitutes for they're school...might be true anecdotally but it's not representative of the overall situation in Ireland.

Miss Lockhart

mj84 wrote: »

I'm not doing research for anybody but myself I can assure you....is there any truth to the statement that there will always be jobs in Irish and Maths? I would have thought that given the expertise of posters here it is quite a simple question....I read another post on this saying that Irish jobs are ten a penny....is Irish really such an outlier??

Irish jobs are far from ten a penny. You are more likely to get a maternity or sick leave in Irish and part time hours (around 6 to 10) but that's it. There are few maths jobs advertised. Most are combined with science and practically all are low hours sub cover.

Permanent jobs are essentially non existent at second level. You work up a CID, usually of part time hours. It took 7 years on average during the boom years. It's worse now.

If you're looking for an "outlier" go for home ec.

2011abc

There are NO permanent jobs out there for new teachers and there will be far less part time hours if Croke Park 'deal' isnt voted out of the water!

rainbowtrout

mj84 wrote: »

I'm not doing research for anybody but myself I can assure you....is there any truth to the statement that there will always be jobs in Irish and Maths? I would have thought that given the expertise of posters here it is quite a simple question....I read another post on this saying that Irish jobs are ten a penny....is Irish really such an outlier??

I'm not sure how many ways you need people to say it. There are no jobs in teaching.


I just looked up educationposts.ie for second level of any type. Now it's a bad time of year and next years posts (if there are any) won't be advertised for another while yet, but there are a sum total of 16 subbing/fixed term jobs advertised for the whole country. I didn't look at the details of them but of those 6 were in Dublin and the rest are spread out all over the place. Nothing in Ulster, nothing in the Midlands, only one job in Connacht (Galway).If your figures are correct (3000 graduates) well you can see the problem there surely?

Chances of a new teacher getting a subbing job let alone a contract job, in their subject area in any part of the country are practically zero.

evolving_doors

Have enda kenny or micheal martin left their teaching jobs yet?

Inspector Coptoor

Kenny left his around 5-6 years ago.

He's on a pension of €30,000 or so from teaching but isn't drawing it at the moment.

doc_17

He's waiting until he retires from Politics. He'll probably dra it down then when he doesn't have to defend it to voters

evolving_doors

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Kenny left his around 5-6 years ago.

He's on a pension of €30,000 or so from teaching but isn't drawing it at the moment.

Hold on a second, do you mean he could get 30 k per year or is that a once off?

spurious

Armelodie wrote: »

Hold on a second, do you mean he could get 30 k per year or is that a once off?

I'm teaching nearly 30 years and I wouldn't get that much if I retired - how does he manage it?

Mardy Bum

spurious wrote: »

I'm teaching nearly 30 years and I wouldn't get that much if I retired - how does he manage it?

Yes and Kenny wasn't teaching for very long either. I'm not sure if that figure makes sense.

evolving_doors

spurious wrote: »

I'm teaching nearly 30 years and I wouldn't get that much if I retired - how does he manage it?

Suppose there is some way to pay into it whilst he's still 'on secondment' to the dail. I can just see Enda and Michael trawling through educationposts.ie when they finish up in the Dail, although they probably would know someone who'd get them in.

rainbowtrout

Armelodie wrote: »

Suppose there is some way to pay into it whilst he's still 'on secondment' to the dail. I can just see Enda and Michael trawling through educationposts.ie when they finish up in the Dail, although they probably would know someone who'd get them in.

Think I remember reading somewhere before that teachers who ended up in the Dail could continue to pay into the pension making them eligible for a teacher pension even if they didn't step foot in a classroom for the rest of their careers. That was because the job was held open for them indefinitely. Now I think they have to resign it after 5 years absence. Kenny and co would have built up at least 30 years I'd imagine, think he's in the Dail since the mid 70s.

RainyDay

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Kenny left his around 5-6 years ago.

He's on a pension of €30,000 or so from teaching but isn't drawing it at the moment.

Source please?

fall

Interesting to see a lot of Principal and Deputy Principal jobs announced since details of Croke park 2 announced.

mj84

Reading through previous forums I get the impression that there are still opportunities for Irish teachers, positions going unfilled etc., geography would be my other subject, I know I've asked this question a few times but would like to get a few more opinions.

Inspector Coptoor

RainyDay wrote: »

Source please?

I actually can't give a source as it would breach the terms of a contract I once had.
Figure was accurate 4 years ago.

rainbowtrout

mj84 wrote: »

Reading through previous forums I get the impression that there are still opportunities for Irish teachers, positions going unfilled etc., geography would be my other subject, I know I've asked this question a few times but would like to get a few more opinions.

Where are these positions going unfilled? I haven't seen posts on here about unfilled positions in a long time. Good luck with your serarch for a job, but don't delude yourself into thinking that if you ask the question over and over again that the answer will suddenly change to the one you want. Positions going unfilled are the exception rather than the norm these days. Don't filter out all the posts on here from people saying there were 300 applicants for a maternity leave in their school. Six years ago we found it difficult to fill a 6 month maternity leave for physics and maths. This year were we inundated with applicants for a 6 week position for the same subjects. The person who got it had 2 PhDs. No reflection on whether they could teach or not but when it came down to choosing candidates there was no shortage of teachers with qualifications and experience.

If every secondary school in the country had 1 retirement this year that would yield about 700 positions. Most of those would be absorbed by schools that are over quota, teachers on part time hours already in place etc. All things being equal only a fraction of those advertised would be Irish.

Going by your OP and your lack of awareness of the existence of the teaching council I can only assume you are considering teaching as a career. Pursue it by all means but go into it with your eyes wide open. You might have a slightly better chance of a job than say an English and History graduate but if you need to move abroad to taech Irish won't be of any use to you

spurious

We would have a couple of 'unfilled positions', but they are from people who left and will not be replaced - they are not jobs we are unable to fill, but jobs we are not allowed fill.

mj84

Cheers for reply Rainbow Trout, considering it but seriously doubting pursuing it actually given the present situation which i'm led to believe will only get worse, apart from all that I'm not certain if i'd really take to being a teacher, are you currently teaching yourself rainbowtrout? It's hard to believe the numbers that continue to do it despite the grim reality....

rainbowtrout

Yes I'm teaching 12 years and I'm permanent so relatively unaffected by cuts except for croke park agreement, increase in class sizes etc. However I see my friends and work colleagues wait from february (when we get our staff allocation for the following school year) til may when they learn if there is a job for them to come back to in august and it isn't nice.

mj84

Would you go into it today rainbowtrout given current circumstances?

rainbowtrout

mj84 wrote: »

Would you go into it today rainbowtrout given current circumstances?

If i was in Leaving Cert now? No, probably not, mainly due to lack of job opportunities. If I was in Leaving Cert now I would be looking at Computer Engineering/Software Development.

Mardy Bum

If you are dead set on teaching there are plenty of jobs in England. Having heard quite a few stories and seen some startling stats it doesn't seem like a very enjoyable experience but I have heard one or two people saying they enjoyed their time.