Health Minister Reilly wants lower pub prices and higher off-sales prices!

drunkmonkey

The Minister for Health James Reilly has not ruled out the introduction of a levy on alcohol.

The Alcohol Forum is calling for a new super levy on drink to clamp down on binge drinking and alcohol addiction in Ireland.

Minister Reilly says he is in favour of the minimum pricing of alcohol.

Dr Reilly said: "I would consider anything that would get us back to normalisation.

"Alcohol has a value, if it has a value at all, as a social lubricant. The current situation has the unintended consequences of people getting very intoxicated at home and then going out.

"I would much prefer to see that the price of alcohol in the pub should come down and the price of alcohol in the off licence and the big supermarkets should go way up."

Source


This is something i'm very much in favour of, i'd love to see the pubs alive again. You can hardly get enough lads together on a week night to have a decent game of cards these days. Cheap beer in the pub would get them back out and off the couch watching sky sports.

BeerNut

No legislation can make pubs price-competitive with off licences.

I'd be happier if each sector of the drinks trade spent more time working on how best to serve its customers rather than trying to make things harder for them -- especially the poorest ones.

Big Nasty

I'm all for tightening the gap between pub and off licence prices but if they were to bring in legislation for this it would just end up with a levy on off sales and no change to pub prices. :mad:

Slaphead07

Is the OP serious? Tax people back into pubs they don't want to go to? Put off-licenses out of business so your mates might get off the sofa? (the recent excise increase has already closed wine shops).

It's obvious the vintners have a strong lobby with this government of publicans, teachers and farmers. Nothing else makes sense. Why would a Minister for Heath, he a qualified doctor, want more people to go to the pub? It was disastrous as a social model for Ireland in the past and can hardly be dressed up as healthier than a few unquantified drinks at home.

Gatling

I'd rather spend my beer money in Tesco!

Its easy to understand make off license's increase prices making it more difficult for say underage /welfare recipient's to actually buy cans and what not ,while lower prices in pubs encourage's people back into pubs to drink cheaper pints ,

I know if rather sup affordable pints in a pub than sup cans or bottle at home

BeerNut

Gatling wrote: »

Its easy to understand make off license's increase prices making it more difficult for say underage /welfare recipient's to actually buy cans and what not

Beware of things that are "easy to understand" but don't have any facts to support them. "It stands to reason" and "it's common sense" are up there with "my Da says" as a sound basis for policy.

Gatling wrote: »

lower prices in pubs encourage's people back into pubs to drink cheaper pints

Any evidence for this statement?

drunkmonkey

I'd rather spend my beer money in Tesco!

BeerNut wrote: »

Any evidence for this statement?

Plenty, Empty pubs, a steady decline in pub sales a constant rise in off licence sales, nearly 40% off all drink sold is now in off licences mainly supermarkets.

Hotblack Desiato

Hoptimus Prime

drunkmonkey wrote: »

This is something i'm very much in favour of, i'd love to see the pubs alive again. You can hardly get enough lads together on a week night to have a decent game of cards these days.

You're wishing for an Ireland that's long dead. When drink-driving was acceptable, men were men and went down the pub every night, and women knew their place (chained to the kitchen) and got what was left out of the paypacket after the publican got first dibs...

For anyone with kids and a mortgage a night out in the pub is a very expensive proposition. Babysitter, taxis (even in Dublin, not cheap) etc. and that's before you start paying ripoff prices for a limited selection of watery mainstream beers. Oh and if the wife's not working you have to buy her her drinks as well

noby

Make it more difficult for welfare recipient's to buy cans?

I'm sorry, but that's not easy for me to understand. Do you care to elaborate?

BobMc

I dont care what price the drink is in the pubs, it would never be cheap enough for me to go albeit very occassionally, between a babysitter and a taxi in two directions, theres a huge gap to bridge pricewise

thomasj

[Cough]opening hours[/cough]

.

BeerNut

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Empty pubs

People will go to pubs if prices are lower because "empty pubs". Eh?

drunkmonkey wrote: »

a steady decline in pub sales, a constant rise in off licence sales, nearly 40% off all drink sold is now in off licences mainly supermarkets.

Again, while this may be happening, where's the evidence that price intervention by the government will reverse it?

drunkmonkey

I'd rather spend my beer money in Tesco!

I couldn't see price intervention having a negative effect on pub sales, duty break for small breweries has had a positive effect and this could only help, I doubt there's one craft brewery busting a living out of Tesco yet it has the lions share of the off licence sales.
It'll be a good thing if it happens, I can't see any negatives except curtailing at home drinking which is probably for the best.

rubadub

Not sure what the poll means.

Would you Prefer Cheaper Beer in the Pub than the Off Licence

Does a YES vote mean I want a bottle of beer to be under 75cent in pubs? or does it mean I want to pay over 5.50 for the same bottle in offies now?

MCMLXXV wrote: »

a levy on off sales and no change to pub prices. :mad:

+1. I find it quite confusing, unless I am missing something obvious. I have searched numerous different webpages about this and can't even see a hint at how he is going to reduce prices in pubs

Minister Reilly says he is in favour of the minimum pricing of alcohol.

What about a maximum price so. I think we used to have max prices for alcohol years ago.

The current situation has the unintended consequences of people getting very intoxicated at home and then going out.

I can't see the "unintended consequence", what have they put in place and how did it go wrong?

An example of a drink related "unintended consequence" is closing pubs early in the hope it will curb peoples drinking, the consequence is a backfire, where people get tanked up on last orders, bail into the streets and fight.

I cannot see what they put in place here? it seems they are suggesting they did something to encourage people to go to pubs or something? what was this thing that backfired?

Their closing of offies early did backfire in a way, since I know see people clearing out of the pub before 10pm to make sure they get to the offie -they brought this in to try and help the pub trade.

The "current situation" is that the publican near me can go into centra and buy heineken for 75cent a bottle, centra are presumably still making a profit on this, there is no way a centra is doing the "below cost selling" model as nobody does a weeks shop there, most I see are only buying the beer. This publican then sells them for €5. This is the situation, I don't see how people drinking at home first is an unintended consequence, which suggests this occurance was not foreseen. Its a bloody obvious thing to be happening, and certainly nothing particularly new.

crusher000

Leave well enough alone. It was government policy that messed it up in the first place. The pub was what was tearing the countries families apart. The evil publican and he's greed, mothers at home with 12 crying childer pulling at her apron strings cause the publican had her husband held captive. Let's change Irish society and how they drink and behave. They did that alright, the chased it from the pub to the home. Well done.

BeerNut

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I couldn't see price intervention having a negative effect on pub sales

Indeed. "We're interfering with the market because we think pubs should make more money" would at least be honest. But instead it's "We're interfering with the market because it's for the good of the country", and I'm still waiting for evidence that this is so. To me it sounds like a scam to rake in extra money for the pubs, and every other consequence is of secondary importance. Perhaps I'm wrong, but if I am, I'd like to see the evidence

drunkmonkey wrote: »

this could only help

... the pubs. If you buy most of your beer in the off-trade, it would be harmful for you, would it not?

drunkmonkey wrote: »

except curtailing at home drinking which is probably for the best.

What makes you think it would curtail at-home drinking? Isn't it at least as likely that, with a can of beer costing €2 instead of €1, at-home drinking will stay at the same level, only the customer has to pay more to do it?

enda1

I'd be more more interested in the almost total deregulation of alcohol.
- Make public drinking legal so you can have a bottle of wine in the park
- Allow any retail premises allowed to sell alcohol for on or off-site consumption
- Remove duty from alcohol sales

The vilification of alcohol encourages the overconsumption of it, especially amongst the youth.

suicide_circus

enda1 wrote: »

I'd be more more interested in the almost total deregulation of alcohol.
- Make public drinking legal so you can have a bottle of wine in the park
- Allow any retail premises allowed to sell alcohol for on or off-site consumption
- Remove duty from alcohol sales

The vilification of alcohol encourages the overconsumption of it, especially amongst the youth.

As utopian as all that sounds, if it were introduced tomorrow there would be sheer bloody murder

suicide_circus

Retailers in Newry will be delighted with Minister O'Reillys plans!

enda1

suicide_circus wrote: »

As utopian as all that sounds, if it were introduced tomorrow there would be sheer bloody murder

That's just the usual line trotted out in Ireland. All it does is discourage progress and trying.

Bike rental - "That'll never work in Ireland"
Smoking ban - "That'll never work in Ireland"
Drink Driving Enforcement - "That'll never work in Ireland"

etc. etc.

gibraltar

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Dr Reilly said: "I would consider anything that would get us back to normalisation.

Would love to know what he considers normal.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

"Alcohol has a value, if it has a value at all, as a social lubricant. The current situation has the unintended consequences of people getting very intoxicated at home and then going out.

So no problem with drunk people its just where they get drunk thats the issue

drunkmonkey wrote: »

"I would much prefer to see that the price of alcohol in the pub should come down and the price of alcohol in the off licence and the big supermarkets should go way up."

Price in pubs to come (by undisclosed amount) down so people get intoxicated there and price in off sale to go WAY up so people dont drink at home... again no problem with people abusing booze,the problem is they should be spending more in pubs.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

This is something i'm very much in favour of, i'd love to see the pubs alive again. You can hardly get enough lads together on a week night to have a decent game of cards these days. Cheap beer in the pub would get them back out and off the couch watching sky sports.

The reality is that pricing people away from off sales and into the pub will not send a great bunch of guys down the pub for a game of cards, it will send a few guys down the pub for the "cheap beer" that will make sure most people will avoid them even more.

About 40% of the pubs within walking distance of me are already no-go zones, how anyone could think that making pubs the cheaper option for drinking would help the pub trade is beyond me. For the health minister to say this is like something from The Onion.

Slaphead07

enda1 wrote: »

I'd be more more interested in the almost total deregulation of alcohol.
- Make public drinking legal so you can have a bottle of wine in the park
- Allow any retail premises allowed to sell alcohol for on or off-site consumption
- Remove duty from alcohol sales

The vilification of alcohol encourages the overconsumption of it, especially amongst the youth.

all but the last one. Even as a retailer I don't thing we can remove the duty. A fairer spread would be nice (and democratic) but there's no reason why there shouldn't be fair duty on alcohol.

But yes, a bottle of wine or beer in a park would be nice - abuse of same is a Garda matter. Any retailer can sell alcohol if they have a licence. Again a licence is perfectly reasonable. A "free or all" won't benefit anyone.

Cienciano

"normalisation" was a strange word he uses. Presumably he means the irish packed into pubs again. Why does he want this? Surely, a doctor and health minister would just want lower alcohol consumption and it would just be his minimum pricing idea in action? (terrible idea btw). Why would a doctor/health minister want us drinking, just in a different place?
If anyone thinks this is anything but the pub lobby talking, they are seriously naive. The same pub lobby that were against the drink driving clampdowns, the same pub lobby that were against the smoking ban are now dictating what the Health minster is saying.

BaZmO*

I hate this perceived notion that a pub is somehow the best/safest place to have a drink.

enda1

Slaphead07 wrote: »

all but the last one. Even as a retailer I don't thing we can remove the duty. A fairer spread would be nice (and democratic) but there's no reason why there shouldn't be fair duty on alcohol.

But yes, a bottle of wine or beer in a park would be nice - abuse of same is a Garda matter. Any retailer can sell alcohol if they have a licence. Again a licence is perfectly reasonable. A "free or all" won't benefit anyone.

But why is there a duty, I mean logically.
I know its very hard to remove a tax, economically and budget balancing wise, but I don't see how an alcohol specific tax is particularly fair.

They are an outdated sin tax. If Ireland wants to progress as a secular state we need to drop this fall-back to the churches will.

If on the other hand the logic behind alcohol duty is as a health tax, then it should target other products too such as high-salt foods, high-fat foods, danger sports etc. etc.

Far more fair and just is to get rid of these big-government/nanny-state taxes.

Zebra3

Hoptimus Prime

BaZmO* wrote: »

I hate this perceived notion that a pub is somehow the best/safest place to have a drink.

Yeah, and it's not like anyone ever drinks in a pub on their own. :rolleyes:

P_1

drunkmonkey wrote: »

"Alcohol has a value, if it has a value at all, as a social lubricant. The current situation has the unintended consequences of people getting very intoxicated at home and then going out.

"I would much prefer to see that the price of alcohol in the pub should come down and the price of alcohol in the off licence and the big supermarkets should go way up."

I'm sorry, "Alcohol has a value, if it has a value at all, as a social lubricant."?

Seriously where is it said that you're only meant to use alcohol in a social capacity? What is wrong with enjoying it in a solitary capacity?

listermint

Original Poll Choices are awful.

dzer2

More alcohol bought in off licences and supermarkets than pubs so if you double the price in the offies and supermarkets more tax take to pay over valued ministers and cabinet friends.Simple screw joe public

Slaphead07

enda1 wrote: »

They are an outdated sin tax. If Ireland wants to progress as a secular state we need to drop this fall-back to the churches will.

Eh? Kinda losing the battle with logic there. It's just excise duty. Money for the state coffers. It's worldwide and exists on fuels, tobacco products and much more. It's not going away so I'd just ask that it be applied evenly. A clumsy €1 on every bottle of wine does nothing except put wine shops out of business. Perhaps that is the Minister's policy... who knows?

enda1

Slaphead07 wrote: »

Eh? Kinda losing the battle with logic there. It's just excise duty. Money for the state coffers. It's worldwide and exists on fuels, tobacco products and much more. It's not going away so I'd just ask that it be applied evenly. A clumsy €1 on every bottle of wine does nothing except put wine shops out of business. Perhaps that is the Minister's policy... who knows?

Have a look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excise#Rationale

Alcohol duty has its origin as a sin tax and to an extent as a public health concern. So now that we have moved to the 21st century and the church no longer (supposedly) has a stranglehold on teh country, it can only be excused as a specific health levy. If that is the case, why single out alcohol and not spread this levy to other damaging products/services?

Maudi

BeerNut wrote: »

Beware of things that are "easy to understand" but don't have any facts to support them. "It stands to reason" and "it's common sense" are up there with "my Da says" as a sound basis for policy.

Any evidence for this statement?

i know lots of publicans personally.one thing they will never ever ever do (their words)is drop drink prices..it wont happen..some dumps do open with cheep/reduced prices.they end up closing soon enough..it wont happen.

adocholiday

I for one would like to see some change in the system because it is not working. Take my point of view, bearing in mind that this is my opinion based on the place where I live and may not be representative of the country in general.

I recently worked in a supermarket (I'm 26) and many of my colleagues were between 18-22. The idea of going to the pub was alien to them. Seriously. What they all did was get the cheapest bottle of vodka they could find, go to one of their houses and get fooked up. Head into the local nightclub, pay a tenner at the door and have 1 or 2 drinks in there.

When I first started going out ~10 years ago, the idea of drinking at home was daft. We wouldn't consider it because everyone went to the pub. It was a social thing that we looked forward to. Good atmosphere in most of the pubs, interaction with people you might not see regularly etc. Most of the people I knew drank reasonably responsibly, but did get drunk. Nothing compared to how bad I see young people now though.

I hate the way its gone now, and its purely down to the low cost of alcohol in the offie and the extortionate prices in the pubs, especially in Dublin (€5.90 for a pint of Heineken in the city centre!). There is a pub in particular in the town where I'm from that you would not get a seat in after 8.30 on a Saturday night 5 years ago. Now you could walk into it at 11 and it would be empty.

People who like to drink will drink. Say what you like about the attitude to alcohol in Ireland or how we should move to the more 'European' model; it has to be better that young people see the pub as a place of social interaction and enjoy a few beers, rather than getting steamed up at home and falling round a nightclub.

P_1

adocholiday wrote: »

I for one would like to see some change in the system because it is not working. Take my point of view, bearing in mind that this is my opinion based on the place where I live and may not be representative of the country in general.

I recently worked in a supermarket (I'm 26) and many of my colleagues were between 18-22. The idea of going to the pub was alien to them. Seriously. What they all did was get the cheapest bottle of vodka they could find, go to one of their houses and get fooked up. Head into the local nightclub, pay a tenner at the door and have 1 or 2 drinks in there.

When I first started going out ~10 years ago, the idea of drinking at home was daft. We wouldn't consider it because everyone went to the pub. It was a social thing that we looked forward to. Good atmosphere in most of the pubs, interaction with people you might not see regularly etc. Most of the people I knew drank reasonably responsibly, but did get drunk. Nothing compared to how bad I see young people now though.

I hate the way its gone now, and its purely down to the low cost of alcohol in the offie and the extortionate prices in the pubs, especially in Dublin (€5.90 for a pint of Heineken in the city centre!). There is a pub in particular in the town where I'm from that you would not get a seat in after 8.30 on a Saturday night 5 years ago. Now you could walk into it at 11 and it would be empty.

People who like to drink will drink. Say what you like about the attitude to alcohol in Ireland or how we should move to the more 'European' model; it has to be better that young people see the pub as a place of social interaction and enjoy a few beers, rather than getting steamed up at home and falling round a nightclub.

Its interesting to wonder why drinking in pubs became such a societal norm.

For a lot of people, pubs just don't seem to appeal to them anymore.

Slaphead07

enda1 wrote: »

Have a look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excise#Rationale

Alcohol duty has its origin as a sin tax and to an extent as a public health concern. So now that we have moved to the 21st century and the church no longer (supposedly) has a stranglehold on teh country, it can only be excused as a specific health levy. If that is the case, why single out alcohol and not spread this levy to other damaging products/services?

That was the 1700's. Customs & Excise is well established now as a tax gathering source and it's not because of the church that it still exists! I'm not in favour of it but I know it's not going away. Alcohol has not been "singled out" either.

enda1

Slaphead07 wrote: »

That was the 1700's. Customs & Excise is well established now as a tax gathering source and it's not because of the church that it still exists! I'm not in favour of it but I know it's not going away. Alcohol has not been "singled out" either.

This has nothing to do with customs, it's an indigenous product. There are not many products which attract duty and off the top of my head, only two which do so on health grounds. Alcohol and tobacco.

drunkmonkey

I'd rather spend my beer money in Tesco!

Pubs in the country have mostly themselves to blame, they mostly all sell the same **** beer and their idea of a gastro pub is a pink snack and some bacon fries.
I see one or two pubs making the effort, drinks promotions, throwing out a bit of food and getting in some new tasting beers. These are the pubs that are more than surviving.
Local breweries have a long way to go, that's where I see the cheap beer coming from, you can have a pint of the local stuff for €2.50 or some Heineken all the way from Amsterdam for €4.50.
Every pub in every town should have a local brewed beer on draft. Were a long way from it but in 20 years it mighten sound as daft if the government create the correct incentives.

enda1

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Pubs in the country have mostly themselves to blame, they mostly all sell the same **** beer and their idea of a gastro pub is a pink snack and some bacon fries.
I see one or two pubs making the effort, drinks promotions, throwing out a bit of food and getting in some new tasting beers. These are the pubs that are more than surviving.
Local breweries have a long way to go, that's where I see the cheap beer coming from, you can have a pint of the local stuff for €2.50 or some Heineken all the way from Amsterdam for €4.50.
Every pub in every town should have a local brewed beer on draft. Were a long way from it but in 20 years it mighten sound as daft if the government create the correct incentives.

It's far cheaper to produce beer in large industrial quantities than on the micro level.

How about allowing Wetherspoon's in.. Give punters choice.
Was in London last week and a pint in one there was £2.09.

The whole pub industry has to change, I remember McDowell wanted to bring in the cafe culture like our Europeen neighbours, and it was turned down.

I have a good friend who has a pub and it's ironic now as the majority of his business is food during the day, and he closes the pub most week days at 7. He even has the pint at 3.80 and hasn't raised the price in some time.

The pub industry is like the music industry, it cannot continue to operate with it's current business model.

Of course he wants it, it's in the FG manifesto

Supporting Irish Pubs: Fine Gael recognises the importance of the Irish pub for tourism, rural jobs and as
a social outlet in communities across the country. We will support the local pub by banning the practice
of below cost selling on alcohol, particularly by large supermarkets and the impact this has had on alcohol
consumption and the viability of pub

They don't want wetherspoons, they don't care about health, they want to prop up irish pubs

lanomist

Hoptimus Prime

Lets get real here. Drink can be bought cheap in other countries without any antisocial problems.As one who has been a social drinker all my life i always loved to go to the pub on the weekend to meet my mates but not any more. I can get a few cans in the off license and a couple of bottles of wine and invite friends around. Why should people like me be victimized because some people get drunk and cause problems.Will the publicans pass on the reductions ? Knowing their form down the years i think not. They have only themselves to blame with their outrageous prices for alcohol and mixers and minerals.One time there would have been large bottles of mixers left on the counter for customers to use, not any more, they charge €2.50 for a dash. If this legislation was brought in it would drive people up north to buy their drink or even to start home brewing.Mr. o Reilly should be concentrating on the promised universal health insurance and reducing waiting lists rather than pandering to the publican lobby.

Pug160

In my experience you pay extortionate prices in pubs for mediocre beer when you can get a very good Belgian or German beer that's much better for less the price. I sip at a few of those beers before I go out - if I go out.

rubadub

enda1 wrote: »

There are not many products which attract duty and off the top of my head, only two which do so on health grounds. Alcohol and tobacco.

I never thought of it as being solely on health grounds. They tax chocolate biscuits higher than normal ones. Calling them "luxury taxes". There was talk of taxing unhealthy foods, and it has been done in several countries. Many people who want cannabis relegalised are in favour of it having high taxes applied.

enda1 wrote: »

I'd be more more interested in the almost total deregulation of alcohol.
- Make public drinking legal so you can have a bottle of wine in the park
- Allow any retail premises allowed to sell alcohol for on or off-site consumption
- Remove duty from alcohol sales

Getting rid of restricted hours would be my main one. If you are having wine with a picnic I doubt a garda will go near you. There is also a curious acceptance of acceptable drunken "knacker drinking" if you are outside a pub doing it. Outside the RDS on big gig days the pubs are jammed and flow onto the street, then people buy cans next door in the offie and drink them there, and the gardai accept this. When I was young we took advantage of this, drinking cans outside busy pubs in the summer. It was funny to see the big confused heads on the irrational hypocritical gardai, their brains working overtime "look at that fella knacker drinking on the street, I'll nab him, oh wait, a fella is beside him with a glass, but its from the pub so its ok, or is it? WTF? I can't very well take yer mans cans when a lad has a potentially dangerous glass doing the exact same illegal act". While if you were young, quiet & sober drinking a can nowhere near a pub and being perfectly well behaved they would take it off you.

Whole page on it on wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_drinking

Removing sale restrictions would make it easier for underage people to get it.

If duty is removed other taxes go up, I have no problem with this as a big drinker.

enda1 wrote: »

It's far cheaper to produce beer in large industrial quantities than on the micro level.

Small breweries here pay only half the duty, so can charge less and publicans can pass this on. Also the main cost per pint in many advertised beers is probably the cost of advertising itself. Many pubs do sell craft beers as cheap or cheaper than the well known ones.

enda1

rubadub wrote: »

I never thought of it as being solely on health grounds. They tax chocolate biscuits higher than normal ones. Calling them "luxury taxes". There was talk of taxing unhealthy foods, and it has been done in several countries. Many people who want cannabis relegalised are in favour of it having high taxes applied.

That's VAT though, not duty. What opther reason then is duty applied to alcohol?

rubadub wrote: »

If duty is removed other taxes go up

True, and that would be correct. Why should alcohol drinkers disproportionally fund the exchequer?

rubadub wrote: »

Small breweries here pay only half the duty, so can charge less and publicans can pass this on. Also the main cost per pint in many advertised beers is probably the cost of advertising itself. Many pubs do sell craft beers as cheap or cheaper than the well known ones.

If there was no duty, this advantage would no longer exist.
Its a very uncompetitive advantage handed to small producers, rather unfair and should really be challenged in the EU courts.

It's like there was a supermarket duty in order to "help" small newsagents.

the beer revolu

I'd like to see duty and licensing laws applied evenly to all alcohol products ie a duty applied per ml alcohol regardless of whether the product is beer, wine, spirits or cider.
Also why can any Tom, Dick or Harry sell wine but you need a full licence to sell beer? Alcohol is alcohol.

rubadub

enda1 wrote: »

That's VAT though, not duty.

And that's semantics. Just like the nonsense politcians get up to "we swore we wouldn't increase income tax, so we invented some new levy/tax/scam to do the exact same thing". If for some reason the EU banned excise duty they could introduce a new VAT tax band higher than 23% and apply it to drink based on a % basis, or some other way.

Canada have excise duty on vehicle air conditioners.

enda1 wrote: »

Why should alcohol drinkers disproportionally fund the exchequer?

You could ask the same about chocolate biscuit eaters. If you sell glucose in a homebrew shop or baking section in a supermarket it is zero VAT, if sold in a sports shop its 23%, now thats a proper oddity. Usually they are taxing a luxury, toilet paper interestingly is 23%, newspapers 9% . Raw nuts 0%, salted or roasted nuts 23%.

This is not particular to Ireland, I am no economist but there must be some reason why the vast majority of countries have decided that alcohol excise duty works well for them.

Some say it funds the health boards, or otherwise alleviates it. Drinking hours said to have originated around World War 1 times to ensure workers were fit & ready for industry supplying the war effort. Nobody seems to have told them the war is over and many do not work 9-5.

enda1 wrote: »

It's like there was a supermarket duty in order to "help" small newsagents.

Some places do...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/mar/31/northern-ireland-tesco-tax

A so-called Tesco tax on large retailers starts in Northern Ireland this weekend.

The levy to subsidise rates relief for small businesses has been criticised by Sainsbury's chief executive Justin King, among others, amid arguments that it unfairly targets the supermarket sector and could limit investment and cost jobs.

drunkmonkey

I'd rather spend my beer money in Tesco!

rubadub wrote: »

Many people who want cannabis relegalised are in favour of it having high taxes applied.

I think you mis-understoond them;)

Slaphead07

rubadub wrote: »

And that's semantics.

Exactly why I stopped "discussing" the issue with Enda. I got dizzy going around in circles. The alcohol tax isn't going away. Get over it.

the_syco

Hoptimus Prime

drunkmonkey wrote: »

This is something i'm very much in favour of, i'd love to see the pubs alive again. You can hardly get enough lads together on a week night to have a decent game of cards these days. Cheap beer in the pub would get them back out and off the couch watching sky sports.

The pubs died because there is no reason for people to goto them. If you want to drink, you can do so at home, and you can invite a few friends over. And best of all, you can hear each other talk. No stupid music blaring loud. If you want to goto a nightclub, you can do so.

I find the Minister for Health to be a stupid person if he thinks that it's a good idea to encourage people back into the pub, where those who want to stay alcohol free are penalised for it! Added to this that the HEALTH minister wants people BACK ONTO ALCOHOL shows just how badly he needs to be sacked from the gubbernment!

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If they wanted more people to drink in the pub, they should put the off-license hours back to 23:30 When this went to ten, is when EVERYBODY STARTED DRINKING AT HOME, as going out for an hour or two, and then getting cans was no longer a good idea. Going to the pub, and then having some "take-away" just before the pub closed was a good idea.

enda1

Slaphead07 wrote: »

Exactly why I stopped "discussing" the issue with Enda. I got dizzy going around in circles. The alcohol tax isn't going away. Get over it.

Firstly I already said that the duty probably wont go away.
Thanks for agreeing with me.

Secondly, you being incorrect and unable to substantiate your points is no reason to dish out insults.

gibraltar

The most saddening thing about this is that its the Health Minister who is publicly stating that the problem with alcohol in Ireland is the venue its consumed in thats he issue and not the quantity, quality or company its consumed in thats the problem.

The health minister's opinion - "its not how much you drink, its where you drink".

Thats a huge step back for this country.