One of those what I'd do with transport if I was the king rants

monument

As the title says -- a few posters have posted one of these threads over the last year, so I'll have a go...

• Rank Dart Underground as the top priority transport project with park and ride at key locations and secure bicycle parking at all stations

Structure and control

• Abolish CIE
• Handover all CIE lands to the NTA (stations, train lines, any land etc)
• Merge the NRA and the RPA not together as planned but into the NTA
• NTA to control all fares and ticketing (over night for state and new routes and over time for others) --
• Scrap / merge the RSA
• Create London-like Red routes in cities and put the NTA in control of the routes plus up to 500m into side streets/roads, where needed
• Leap rolled rolled out nationally ASAP
• Restrict free travel to local/regional travel and only discounted intercity, and restrict peak travel -- mostly as suggested by bk recently?
• Set up transport and traffic police
• Make all transport data public and accessible to developers, Google etc

Parking

• Paid parking at all large out-of-town shopping car parks
• Regulate private and public clamping and ticketing
• Simplify parking signage and zoning
• Then up the fines for illegal parking
• All parking on footpaths or cycle lanes to be treated more seriously -- more so for narrow footpaths
• Urgently fix parking issues around schools -- that could include removing spaces, adding spaces, road narrowing and bollards, a bit of education and enforcement

Cycling

• Cycling seen as replacement / substitute for public transport
• Support or directly run schemes to get students and unemployed onto bicycles
• Ban shared use footpaths and set date for removal (Greenways treated differently)
• Min legal standards for cycle lanes and paths
• Choose a national approach: Dutch or Danish or even a mix
• Focused national spending -- even if that means 80% going to Dublin in year one and two, maybe also do one large town successfully at a time and small scale improvements elsewhere which deliver.
• Expand on current projects to provide cycle parking at rail stations -- do same with bus stations
• Give cities and towns choice of removing one way systems or adding contra-flow for cyclists
• Run trials of US-style bike rack on urban buses, then expand to all cities
• Look at ways to get extra bikes on intercity trains
• Bikes on off-peak and not crounded trams tomorrow
• Free carriage on bikes / lesser charge on BE services and same for all new or renewed route
• ... Could go on but won't...

Bus/light rail

• RPA or TfL-style tendering
• Review bus lanes in all cities
• Review of bus stops everywhere -- with focus on cities and town and looking at how bus routes could work better with newer roads and bypasses (ie sometimes takes stops away from town or village centres)
• Look and bringing bus lanes to junctions in Dublin
• Look at BRT/LRT replacement / stopgap for Metro North
• BRT/LRT on former/current N11, N4, Malahide Road QBC, but scrap looking at to Blanch or at least forget about Navan Road route, use park or N4 and onto metro west route.
• Luas to Finglas and on to the airport
• High capacity cycle parking at key BRT/LRT stops

A three hour bus journey around Galway and Mayo (missed a 2 hour bus by 3mins!) may have just made me temporally mad, but the above served as a good distraction...

Judgement Day

This won't end well.

TheBandicoot

If it were me:

• Combine DB, IE and BE back into one company and rebrand appropriately. Give this operator sole Luas and Metro running powers as well.
• make this new operator the de facto default public transport provider, and use advertising to promote that
• Massive subvention so that this operator never has any money pressures and can operate more bus routes than exist now, to more remote places and at higher frequency.
• construct DART Underground, Metro North, Metro West, Luas Line F and BXD and a new Metro South through Leeson St, Harolds Cross, Terenure, Templeogue leading to Red Line/Metro West terminus at Tallaght.
• Four track Northern line to Mosney, CPO and demolish, just do it. Electrify to Drogheda at the same time.
• KRP extended to Kildare and feeder buses provided at all intermediate stations.
• Electrify Maynooth line, new station on the land west of Croke Park on the lower line. Low line should be realigned to join with DU tunnel portal at East wall, with services serving all stations from Pearse onwards. This creates a D-shaped route from Maynooth to Kildare via the city centre and the lower line. That alternates with the Bray-Maynooth service
• Construct Navan railway from Pace onwards. Put in new passing loops at Clonsilla(south of the current platforms and closing the level crossing) and somewhere between Ashtown and Broombridge to allow for improved Navan and Sligo services.
• Double track Maynooth to Mullingar
• Traingular junction with flyovers around Clongriffen allowing trains from the 4track section onto a 2track line to Dublin Airport, with a service operating from Drogheda-Airport-SSG-Heuston-Inchicore, with appropriate turnback sidings at Inchicore.
• Implement large tax increases to pay for all this and give power to oversee and access to the ringfenced funds to the state transport operator, with a mission to get all this delivered ASAP.

monument

Judgement Day wrote: »

This won't end well.

Everybody will be banned. Including me.

steamengine

Judgement Day wrote: »

This won't end well.

I predict this thread will follow a similar trajectory to a rocket ! The descent should be fun that's assuming it doesn't blow up mid-air

Hilly Bill

If it was me i'd double the wages and remove all free travel . Free parking in shopping centers and hospitals.

Victor

monument wrote: »

if I was the king

Hilly Bill

Fail to see what Elvis has got to do with the Commuting and Transport forum??????

lucernarian

Still waiting on the first general road improvement to be proposed

No M20/Adare bypass? No N28? No GCOB? No Slane bypass? No N5 via Boyle reroute? Or even the humble set of road improvements between Cavan and Dundalk? For shame boards, for shame.

Also get DART underground built as soon as possible, close the Western Rail Corridor and investigate the possibility of another passing loop between Bray and Arklow, and Athlone and Galway. With 160kph running for most of the Galway line in particular.

All this while trying to dismantle the insane asylum that is Irish Rail right now.

Efforts to sort out remaining problems with integrated ticketing and LEAP implementation, especially on Dublin Bus (Leap shouldn't take longer to use than cash fares).

fullgas

• Introduce a zonal structure on Dublin Bus:
  
• Zone 1: Within M50
  Zone 2: Outside M50
  Short Hob Fare: c. 5 stops
• Install ticket machines at busy bus stops to cut Dwell Time - the only Dublin Bus machine I know of is at Dublin Airport.
  
• Only have round fares so passengers are not fiddling with coppers.
  
• Build the QBC on the Navan Road
  
• Increase passenger information displays inside the buses - next stop, estimated journey time, connections etc.
  
• Dramatically increase the Dublin Bike scheme
  
• Extend Luas BXD to the Airport via N2
  
• Replace Metro West w/BRT
  
• Introduce the Parking Levy

monument

Link between Hazelhatch & Celbridge‎ and Mayooth -- taking intercity trains off the line between Mayooth and the city...

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Still waiting on the first general road improvement to be proposed

No M20/Adare bypass? No N28? No GCOB? No Slane bypass? No N5 via Boyle reroute? Or even the humble set of road improvements between Cavan and Dundalk? For shame boards, for shame.

Dublin tax payers are fed up of subsidising the rest of the country.

steamengine

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Fail to see what Elvis has got to do with the Commuting and Transport forum??????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_eE0NPArEY

Lapin

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Fail to see what Elvis has got to do with the Commuting and Transport forum??????

Department of Transport to commandeer all the international image rights and back catalogues of everything Elvis ever recorded musically and on film.

Use the royalties to pay for all the hairbrained transport suggestions and fancy new trains we'll be reading about here.



Obviously.

Jamie2k9

Have considered about abolishing CIE but that won't solve the problems, its the way they operate where the problems lie. Most of my post will be fixing Irish Rail. I could post more but this is enough to get use started.


Structure and control

• Staff cuts from top down (expect 600-1000 job cuts), only one CEO of the company and each operate will have one senior manager to report to CEO. Pay cap of 70,000 (CEO of company and chief engineer on 70,000) everybody else below this amount.
• All station staff apart from busy stations got rid off.
• RAIU and RSC merged with job cuts as a result.
• The NTA will be scrapped as its pointless at the minute, decisions on service will be commercial basis and not political.
• The Government will have not say in how to operate or what to invest money on. (Yes a state company but will be run like the DAA)
• As said above Set up transport and traffic police and have them at all stations in Dublin Area 24/7.
• Social Welfare pay for free travel, for every ticket issued CIE receive the full fare, restrict the number of Intercity journeys. OAP's over 70 get pass and only people who have disability that prevents them from driving and not the scum who still drive and claim a disability and so on. Single mothers getting a pass would be stopped and carrying somebody free stopped. Of course a Card with photo ID for the passes.
• Rosslare Europort would be sold.

Traffic/Bus/Parking/Cycling

• All station Car Parks will have free parking + a feeder bus service to the local area.
• Congestion charges introduced in Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick and Waterford. All key routes into the city center will have changes between 06.00 to 10.30 and 16.00 to 19.30. Higher rates between 07.30-09.30 and 16.30-18.30. Will apply to all key routes into the city center. The aim is to make the cost of driving much more expensive than using public transport. Park and Ride facilities with express buses and normal stopping connecting to the city center transport hubs.
• Increase Bus Lanes on key routes and where possible have space for buses stopping to move off the bus lane and not have others waiting behind which happens now.
• More cycle lanes and expansion of Dublin Bikes to major towns and cities.
• Extend the HGV ban to other cities where its possible at least during peak hours.

Irish Rail Operations/Plans

• WRC given 12 months with some services not stopping between Ennis and Athenry, try to improve times, reduce fares to €9 each way. If no improvement at 12 months the line closed. Those wasters who call themselves the West on Track can go get lives. If prove successful and the line was making money it would stay but the rest would not be completed EVER.
• Increase capacity on Galway and Waterford routes by extending passing loops to reduce delays and faster crossings. Each loop will be a few km's long which will allow trains maintain speed and not have to stop of slow down unless there is a delay to another service,
• Have signaling on all lines to allow more than one train per section track.
• Extra Platform at Sallins and Limerick Junction. Have improved commuter service to Portlaose/Kildare/Newbridge.
• Journey times cut:

Dublin-Cork every second service complete journey in 2h15m, 2h30m for others.
Dublin-Tralee reduced to 3h.25m.
Dublin-Waterford reduced to 2h with express service morning and evening taking 1h35m.
Dublin-Galway reduced to 2h with express service morning and evening taking 1h50m. --
Dublin-Westport have 15m reduced..

• Increase fuel savings.
• Better matching capacity with demand.
• All fares reduced and available on the day however some restrictions.
• Limerick-Junction-Waterford line with improved services including extra Clonmel to Waterford and through running to Limerick.
• Terminate all services on Rosslare line at Wexford, have morning and evening service to Rosslare to meet ferries and some exceptions in summer. Try increase service and cut journey time.
• Better scheduling in General but the Sligo, Rosslare and Belfast services are top of the list + some Heuston services.
• TMV's at all stations along with barriers that cost more and are better than the current cheap ones Irish Rail use. Complete clampdown on people not paying fares.

Future Investment (If funding was available)

• Complete KRP to Portarlington
• Double Track some if not all Galway and Waterford lines as well as Limerick J to Limerick
• Dart Underground of course but would review the plans and have it start at Malahide and have Dublin Airport stop. All Belfast and Northen line services between Malahide and Connolly use the tunnel and exit near Connolly where the Dart enters and continues to Heuston.
• Complete Track layout change for Connolly.
• 100mph speeds through out Network where possible. Faster for routes where possible and modifications to rolling stock to make it happen.
• Farm crossings closed and some level crossing where possible.
• Waterford-Rosslare reopend with major investment to allow fast services to Wexford and some to Rosslare.

Cookie_Monster

If you were king would you not get a whole lot mroe draconian???

I'd start by banning cars inside the canals in Dublin, and similar restrictions in every major town, time to take back the city centres as a place you would actually want to be as a pedestrain / cyclist / pt user.

dfx-

Keep the AV fleet as long as physically possible
Remove all Network Direct cross-city routes back to their original halves.

Jamie2k9

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

If you were king would you not get a whole lot mroe draconian???

I'd start by banning cars inside the canals in Dublin, and similar restrictions in every major town, time to take back the city centres as a place you would actually want to be as a pedestrain / cyclist / pt user.

Not need to be more draconian!

A complete ban is not the way to go for now. A change of around €50 per week wouldn't be long freeing up traffic in the city centres. All would be re invested in public transport.

monument

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

[*]RAIU and RSC merged with job cuts as a result.

The RAIU are already a unit -- even if an indepentent unit -- within the RSC.

Unless you explain better it seems like you'll have a less safe railway.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

[*]The NTA will be scrapped as its pointless at the minute, decisions on service will be commercial basis and not political.

No NTA? So nobody regulating the CIE companies and a free-for-all for everybody on routing, ticketing, network planning etc?

Have fun with that one!

You don't abolish CIE because it will solve problems, you do it because it is already redundant.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

[*]The Government will have not say in how to operate or what to invest money on. (Yes a state company but will be run like the DAA)

The DAA are not that independent at all.

LXFlyer

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Have considered about abolishing CIE but that won't solve the problems, its the way they operate where the problems lie. Most of my post will be fixing Irish Rail. I could post more but this is enough to get use started.


Structure and control

• Staff cuts from top down (expect 600-1000 job cuts), only one CEO of the company and each operate will have one senior manager to report to CEO. Pay cap of 70,000 (CEO of company and chief engineer on 70,000) everybody else below this amount.

Where are you going to get senior staff of the calibre required that would be prepared to work for what is frankly a middle management salary level?

I think you need to be realistic - that is not a CEO/senior manager salary for organisations of that size.

Richard Logue

My investment priorities would be in an ideal world:

1: Build a heavy rail connection to Dublin Airport and originate all Inter City rail services to the rest of the country from there. Use the Phoenix Park tunnel and build the proposed Dublin Parkway station for the South and West lines, with a shuttle from Heuston pending construction of the Dart Interconnector
2: Extend the Navan line from Pace but pending funds being made available I would run trains over the existing line through Dunleer Duleek and onto the Great Northern section into Connolly and Pearse and onto Wicklow.
3: Build the Dart interconnector and reconfigure Dublin Suburban services so lines would run Mullingar/Pace-Wicklow and Portlaoise-Howth/Drogheda.
4: Double the Portarlington-Galway line and increase passing loops on Cherryville-Waterford and Greystones-Rosslare.

lucernarian

Richard Logue wrote: »

My investment priorities would be in an ideal world:

1: Build a heavy rail connection to Dublin Airport and originate all Inter City rail services to the rest of the country from there. Use the Phoenix Park tunnel and build the proposed Dublin Parkway station for the South and West lines, with a shuttle from Heuston pending construction of the Dart Interconnector
2: Extend the Navan line from Pace but pending funds being made available I would run trains over the existing line through Dunleer and onto the Great Northern section into Connolly and Pearse and onto Wicklow.
3: Build the Dart interconnector and reconfigure Dublin Suburban services so lines would run Mullingar/Pace-Wicklow and Portlaoise-Howth/Drogheda.
4: Double the Portarlington-Galway line and increase passing loops on Cherryville-Waterford and Greystones-Rosslare.

About (2)... Through Dunleer of all places?! I know the poor divils would find a train station quite advantageous given its prime location near the centre of the small town but it's quite a bit out of the way from the Navan-Drogheda train line;)

Richard Logue

EDIT Yes it's Duleek not Dunleer!

lucernarian

Richard Logue wrote: »

Only because the existing line from Navan runs through Dunleer

I strongly recommend you consult a map on this one. https://maps.google.ie/?ll=53.705294,-6.353273&spn=0.030179,0.077162&t=m&z=14

Richard Logue

Richard Logue wrote: »

My investment priorities would be in an ideal world:

1: Build a heavy rail connection to Dublin Airport and originate all Inter City rail services to the rest of the country from there. Use the Phoenix Park tunnel and build the proposed Dublin Parkway station for the South and West lines, with a shuttle from Heuston pending construction of the Dart Interconnector
2: Extend the Navan line from Pace but pending funds being made available I would run trains over the existing line through Dunleer Duleek and onto the Great Northern section into Connolly and Pearse and onto Wicklow.
3: Build the Dart interconnector and reconfigure Dublin Suburban services so lines would run Mullingar/Pace-Wicklow and Portlaoise-Howth/Drogheda.
4: Double the Portarlington-Galway line and increase passing loops on Cherryville-Waterford and Greystones-Rosslare.

There. I corrected it for you

munchkin_utd

monument wrote: »

As the title says -- a few posters have posted one of these threads over the last year, so I'll have a go...
<snip>

A three hour bus journey around Galway and Mayo (missed a 2 hour bus by 3mins!) may have just made me temporally mad, but the above served as a good distraction...

see - THIS is the root of all evil.
Even one happening like that could drive someone to give up on public transport and has most likely driven 10s if not 100s of thousands to shun public transport already. Problem is that the less who use it then the less sustainable it is and the worse the service becomes, and then the car really is the only option.

Ireland is a mass of Ryanair style point to point connections where busses do not connect with each other, let alone CIE ran trains with their company group busses.

If I was to do ONE thing it would be to plan and guarantee connections as much as it is practically possible to offer a real alternative to the car.
I'd plan for busses + trains to connect with each other in the regions and like what happens in Germany, if a small delay happens on an incoming service then the conections will wait for their connecting passengers within reason.

Hilly Bill

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

If you were king would you not get a whole lot mroe draconian???

I'd start by banning cars inside the canals in Dublin, and similar restrictions in every major town, time to take back the city centres as a place you would actually want to be as a pedestrain / cyclist / pt user.

I agree, take the cars out of the canals along with the shopping trollies and old bikes.

DellyBelly

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Fail to see what Elvis has got to do with the Commuting and Transport forum??????

Because the OP mentioned if he was King...thats why Elvis is mentioned

LXFlyer

munchkin_utd wrote: »

see - THIS is the root of all evil.
Even one happening like that could drive someone to give up on public transport and has most likely driven 10s if not 100s of thousands to shun public transport already. Problem is that the less who use it then the less sustainable it is and the worse the service becomes, and then the car really is the only option.

Ireland is a mass of Ryanair style point to point connections where busses do not connect with each other, let alone CIE ran trains with their company group busses.

If I was to do ONE thing it would be to plan and guarantee connections as much as it is practically possible to offer a real alternative to the car.
I'd plan for busses + trains to connect with each other in the regions and like what happens in Germany, if a small delay happens on an incoming service then the conections will wait for their connecting passengers within reason.

Ah but as yet we don't know why monument missed the other bus - no connection was mentioned!

Hilly Bill

DellyBelly wrote: »

Because the OP mentioned if he was King...thats why Elvis is mentioned

oh i see, i'll post a picture of some crisps when i get a chance.

foggy_lad

Free travel for all on State public transport, paid for by taxing all benefit payments.

Alcohol banned on all public transport with zero tolerence and a 24 hour spell in jail for those founf breaking this rule, no judge and jury just jail!

Then I'd do away with CIE with all employees getting state redundancy and merge BAC, IE and BE into a company called Irish transport but all three to operate in competition with each other and with private services, No ex-cie staff need apply!

Then the lifting train would head west to Galway and start on down to Limerick before heading back up through Nenagh. Money saved would be used to upgrade the Mallow-Tralee line.

Cyclists seen crossing the stop line at red traffic lights or acting dangerously at junctions, cycling on footpaths etc to be detained at Garda stations for two hours and made to watch videos of accidents involving cyclists. Motorists have some protection, Cyclists don't.

There would be no further work on Dart underground or other transport projects until the people of my country can learn to respect the facilities and infrastructure built for them, hopefully taxing all benefits would start the ball rolling on this as all welfare recipients would be paying a part in the benefits they receive from society.

Carlow would have an hourly bus service or at least every 90minutes instead of the current service of one every 2-3hours, with a bus to Waterford every 2 hours.

After that if there is anything else I'll be in the pub.

lucernarian

This isn't Iraq, it's not like we can't re-hire any ex CIE staff whatsoever into this new public transport outfit. Also, it would be impossible to implement without substantial cost to the travelling public at large, for example due to the effects of disqualifying the majority of Category D licence holders in this country. Over such a large number of employees, it would be impossible to hire enough replacements without inevitably taking shortcuts on labour quality.

Even after Ronnie Reagan's stunt with air traffic control staff, many of the staff who were sacked were eventually re-hired anyway.

The suggestion has about as much merit and basis in reality as discussing the eventual introduction of flying cars and the infrastructure required to handle them. :cool:

munchkin_utd

foggy_lad wrote: »

<snip>

Carlow would have an hourly bus service or at least every 90minutes instead of the current service of one every 2-3hours, with a bus to Waterford every 2 hours.
<snip>.

thats easy fixed and self financing.

lift the rail line there that requires millions of subsidies in running costs and line maintenance and then the patronage on the bus would rise enough to justify an hourly or better service.
And even if the passenger numbers arent enough for an hourly service, you'll have millions to run it anyhow with the money saved on the closed rail line.

Jamie2k9

The RAIU are already a unit -- even if an independent unit -- within the RSC.

Unless you explain better it seems like you'll have a less safe railway.

Well didn't know that but there is no need for them to be under separate roofs and have to many staff like they do now plenty of savings could be made.

No NTA? So nobody regulating the CIE companies and a free-for-all for everybody on routing, ticketing, network planning etc?

Have fun with that one!

The train operator will oversee the timetable, planning etc. Some restrictions for fares but overall the NTA does nothing worthwhile. They will always agree with Irish Rail anyway.

The DAA are not that independent at all.

Much more so than CIE, not TD's or ministers says you must o this and that every five minutes, operate political services.

Where are you going to get senior staff of the calibre required that would be prepared to work for what is frankly a middle management salary level?

I think you need to be realistic - that is not a CEO/senior manager salary for organisations of that size.

Come off it, any normal person would have no problems running CIE for a good wage in todays climate. You say CIE management have the calibre required to run a company. Time to get real. The only thing that senior management (not all CIE staff) have is to much money and intellectual ability of an insect on how to run a company. All are complete waste of spaces and havn't a clue all should be sacked right away. Some of the most useless people employed in Ireland. I'm probably going to get in trouble for this but it needs to be said as its fact.

DellyBelly

Hilly Bill wrote: »

oh i see, i'll post a picture of some crisps when i get a chance.

Have no idea what you mean by that??? I was just explaining why Elvis was mentioned in the thread

foggy_lad

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

This isn't Iraq, it's not like we can't re-hire any ex CIE staff whatsoever into this new public transport outfit. Also, it would be impossible to implement without substantial cost to the travelling public at large, for example due to the effects of disqualifying the majority of Category D licence holders in this country. Over such a large number of employees, it would be impossible to hire enough replacements without inevitably taking shortcuts on labour quality.

Even after Ronnie Reagan's stunt with air traffic control staff, many of the staff who were sacked were eventually re-hired anyway.

The suggestion has about as much merit and basis in reality as discussing the eventual introduction of flying cars and the infrastructure required to handle them. :cool:

The staff I would not be re employing are the cie staff who are not in any of the three transport companies. Those who are employeed and paid by coras iompar Éireann not irish rail, bus Éireann or Dublin bus.

Hilly Bill

DellyBelly wrote: »

Have no idea what you mean by that??? I was just explaining why Elvis was mentioned in the thread

King crisps

I knew why it was mentioned but it was off topic , something that the average poster has been warned for in the past.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

The staff I would not be re employing are the cie staff who are not in any of the three transport companies. Those who are employeed and paid by coras iompar Éireann not irish rail, bus Éireann or Dublin bus.

You wouldnt have an issue with any ex Irish Rail, Dublin Bus or Bus Eireann staff being employed if they are suitable?

dowlingm

I know this is crayoning, but if we could avoid mass abuses of Irish employment law which differs substantially from other jurisdictions that would be great kthxbai.

monument

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Well didn't know that but there is no need for them to be under separate roofs and have to many staff like they do now plenty of savings could be made.

How many staff do they have? Why is it too many given their function?

As for different locations -- that may or may not be an issue, for all we know it may cost more to relocate both to a larger building.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The train operator will oversee the timetable, planning etc. Some restrictions for fares but overall the NTA does nothing worthwhile. They will always agree with Irish Rail anyway.

So no regulation of Irish Rail then? And let's forget about buses?

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Much more so than CIE, not TD's or ministers says you must o this and that every five minutes, operate political services.

The NTA would be on the same level as the DAA in that regard, possibly better?

patrickbrophy18

monument wrote: »

As the title says -- a few posters have posted one of these threads over the last year, so I'll have a go...

• Rank Dart Underground as the top priority transport project with park and ride at key locations and secure bicycle parking at all stations

You have my 100% support with this monument.

monument wrote: »

Parking

• Paid parking at all large out-of-town shopping car parks
• Regulate private and public clamping and ticketing

I can't see the logic of these points going down to well in the likes of Dunnes Stores, Cornelscourt as it would deter a lot of customers from their weekly shop.

Conversely, I do think that cycle spaces could be phased in to encourage those shopping light (less than 10 items) to cycle. For this to work, bike mountable baskets could be sold at such stores which is well doable.

monument wrote: »

Cycling

• Cycling seen as replacement / substitute for public transport
• Support or directly run schemes to get students and unemployed onto bicycles

The first point here should be optional as public transport is often a quicker, warmer and more relaxing way to travel. It all depends on the length and/or route of the journey taken from A to B. Nevertheless, kudos to those who can motivate themselves to cycle medium to long distances (any distance well over 5 kilometers).

Having said that, cycling should be encouraged for people traveling less than 5 kilometers. As per your statistics in another thread, an extremely large portion of daily journeys made by car (in and around the 100,000 marker if memory serves) are less than 5 kilometers. Both cycling and public transport should be used in curbing (kerbing:D, pardon the pun) this. Here is where your second point would be most applicable.

monument wrote: »

Bus/light rail

• RPA or TfL-style tendering
• Review bus lanes in all cities
• Review of bus stops everywhere -- with focus on cities and town and looking at how bus routes could work better with newer roads and bypasses (ie sometimes takes stops away from town or village centres)
• Look and bringing bus lanes to junctions in Dublin
• Look at BRT/LRT replacement / stopgap for Metro North
• BRT/LRT on former/current N11, N4, Malahide Road QBC, but scrap looking at to Blanch or at least forget about Navan Road route, use park or N4 and onto metro west route.
• Luas to Finglas and on to the airport
• High capacity cycle parking at key BRT/LRT stops

I agree with most of this except for the part in red. Accessibility for public transport should be one of the key components as well as that for cycling in reducing the carbon footprint of village and town centers.

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

You wouldnt have an issue with any ex Irish Rail, Dublin Bus or Bus Eireann staff being employed if they are suitable?

No problem with all staff apart from management who would be let go and have to reapply for posts which would be open to all. Management salaries would be reduced in line with the current economic situation.

monument

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

I can't see the logic of these points going down to well in the likes of Dunnes Stores, Cornelscourt as it would deter a lot of customers from their weekly shop.

How is one deterred from their weekly shopping? Do they go hungry and use newspapers for bog roll? Or do they avoid parking charges by walking to the corner shop but end up spending way more on products?

In any case: Retailer group RGDATA and others argue the case for paid parking at out-of-town centres...

http://www.rgdata.ie/assets/files/2013%20Files/CarParkingReport.pdf

http://www.antaisce.org/Press/AnTaisceRelatedNewsReleases/tabid/1024/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/257/Car-Parking-and-Town-Centre-degradation.aspx

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

Conversely, I do think that cycle spaces could be phased in to encourage those shopping light (less than 10 items) to cycle. For this to work, bike mountable baskets could be sold at such stores which is well doable..... less than 5 kilometers

Guess I should get a car for my family's current 6km round trip on bicycles to Tesco where we spend around the average for a family of our time... or 7km trip to Lidl.... :rolleyes: ...Sorry for the "rolleyes" but your artificial limits are ridiculous.

5km is going around St Stephens Green four times -- it's nothing and takes little effort for anybody half used of cycling. And -- before you say it -- nobody said cycling is for everybody.

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

The first point here should be optional

What do you mean optional? You make it sound like somebody suggested that there will be mandatory cycling for all -- which I is a million miles away from what I said...

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

as public transport is often a quicker, warmer and more relaxing way to travel.

As usually, your generalisations are meaningless... here's some counter generalisations to highlight how meaningless generalisations are...

• Public transport is often not quicker given the walking time, waiting time and delay time you have to factor in for public transport.
  
• Walking to/from and waiting at bus and tram stops as well as train stations is often colder than cycling.
  
• Sitting or standing beside smelly, noisy, or otherwise annoying people is not very relaxing, or is waiting for buses which never come, nor is getting caught in buses blocked by congestion.

pigtown

If I was king of Limerick (and the Midwest)

Build a new rail and bus station at Roches St. (the entire left-hand block from Parnell St. to Catherine St.) with rail underground, long and medium haul bus routes in new ground level bus station with local buses departing from the footpath outside. Make Roches St. bus and taxi only.

Intercity services would be:
Galway-Cork, stopping at Ennis, Limerick, Limerick Junction, and Mallow. 8 services a day with the first trains getting into Galway and Cork before 8.30 a.m. and the last trains departing not before 9 p.m. This service would connect with a shuttle to Clonmel and Waterford.
An hourly shuttle service connecting Limerick with the Dublin-Cork train would take up the slack on the hours when the above mentioned service wasn't running.

Open a 3 line DART style service that runs to:

• Raheen, stopping at the industrial estate (P&R), Crescent S.C., Fr. Russel Rd., and Childers Rd.
• Cratloe (P&R), stopping at Moyross, Corbally, Parkway (shuttle to Annacotty industrial Estate via UL), and St. Josephs Hospital.
• Annacotty industrial estate (shuttle to Parkway via UL), stopping at Crossagalla (P&R) and St. Josephs Hospital.

This service would run on a 15 minute frequency.

A longer commuter service to Ennis (hourly), Nenagh (hourly at peak, two
hours off-peak), and Thurles (peak services only).

All of these new stations would be more like a Luas stop than a railway station. They would be built in conjunction with a comprehensive public bikes scheme with many kilometres of off road bike lanes linking the station with housing estates, shopping centres and retail parks that are not within reasonable walking distance.

lucernarian

monument wrote: »

How is one deterred from their weekly shopping? Do they go hungry and use newspapers for bog roll? Or do they avoid parking charges by walking to the corner shop but end up spending way more on products?

In any case: Retailer group RGDATA and others argue the case for paid parking at out-of-town centres...

http://www.rgdata.ie/assets/files/2013%20Files/CarParkingReport.pdf

http://www.antaisce.org/Press/AnTaisceRelatedNewsReleases/tabid/1024/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/257/Car-Parking-and-Town-Centre-degradation.aspx




Guess I should get a car for my family's current 6km round trip on bicycles to Tesco where we spend around the average for a family of our time... or 7km trip to Lidl.... :rolleyes: ...Sorry for the "rolleyes" but your artificial limits are ridiculous.

5km is going around St Stephens Green four times -- it's nothing and takes little effort for anybody half used of cycling. And -- before you say it -- nobody said cycling is for everybody.




What do you mean optional? You make it sound like somebody suggested that there will be mandatory cycling for all -- which I is a million miles away from what I said...




As usually, your generalisations are meaningless... here's some counter generalisations to highlight how meaningless generalisations are...

• Public transport is often not quicker given the walking time, waiting time and delay time you have to factor in for public transport.
  
• Walking to/from and waiting at bus and tram stops as well as train stations is often colder than cycling.
  
• Sitting or standing beside smelly, noisy, or otherwise annoying people is not very relaxing, or is waiting for buses which never come, nor is getting caught in buses blocked by congestion.

That's quite the rebuttal for a throwaway suggestion that wasn't even really in disagreement with your points. It's not like the word "optional" suddenly means "Ulster says No!".

Also, what does "As usually, your generalisations are meaningless" refer to? That patrickbrophy18 typically makes meaningless generalisations? That's very sweeping in itself. I think the "5 km" served as a rule of thumb in his hypothesis, nothing more. Reports from RGDATA, the lobby group representing small traders in town centres, ought to be taken with a pinch of salt too.

Cycling and public transport are not really fill-ins for each other, both need separate attention and investment put in place as they fundamentally serve different needs. Chalk and cheese comes to mind here. I can agree with the idea of encouraging diversity in transport away from cars at least. Having a choice of transport modes will cater for more needs than prioritising one over the other, even if one option is more likely to be in society's best interest.

end of the road

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Terminate most services on Rosslare line at Wexford,
have morning and evening service to Rosslare to meet ferries and some exceptions in summer. Try increase service and cut journey time.

no, no, no, no, they must all go to rosslare, going down wexford quay is one of the most vital parts of the journey, you can't take that away from us (i'l get me coat)

monument

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

That's quite the rebuttal for a throwaway suggestion that wasn't even really in disagreement with your points.

It may seem like his post was a throwaway suggestion, but his previous postings across boards show otherwise.

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Cycling and public transport are not really fill-ins for each other

The Dutch and Danish have set their policy exactly as if cycling is a "fill-in" for public transport. They say that providing for cycling is cheaper than proving the public transport which would be needed without cycling.

Transport for London said in the last two weeks that their planned investment in cycling would lead to more seats free on the tube etc.

Dublin policy of growing population inside amd around the canals depends on -- you guessed it -- more people cycling.

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

...as they fundamentally serve different needs. Chalk and cheese comes to mind here.

A huge amount of public transport use in Dublin would in a Dutch city be covered by bicycle.

Large numbers using public transport for short to mid distances when they could be walking or cycling should be seen as a waste of limited resources -- resources which should be aimed at longer distances.

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Having a choice of transport modes will cater for more needs than prioritising one over the other, even if one option is more likely to be in society's best interest.

Often it will be best to prioritisise one mode on top or do so for some routes or some areas etc.

Having the best of all options sounds great but is costly, often unworkable due to space and won't get the the results of more focused approches.

Chris_5339762

There are some great ideas in this thread but unfortunately we just don't have the population to justify the majority of them

lucernarian

monument wrote: »

It may seem like his post was a throwaway suggestion, but his previous postings across boards show otherwise.

I respect that opinion, but won't that lead to more recriminations and chips on shoulders? I think it's a little too harsh a way to put down someone's opinion on a subject. Someone should be able to make a post that can be judged on its own merits, particularly when it's politely expressed and is not from someone who's known to post disruptively. It's not good to carry over such prejudice to new threads.

The sole point you raised directly in contention with my view of bikes + public transport being apples and oranges is from citing the views of Dutch policymakers. That in itself has limited bearing on what's best for Ireland. But more importantly, why would the Dutch or anyone else expressing this opinion make it a good opinion for others? It's obvious to all here that bikes and buses share commonalities. They're both modes of transport. But one is inherently designed for individual movement whereas most others are better suited to groups of people, goods transport or both.

So using public transport for individual short distance travel (and no I have no criteria establised for what counts as "short travel") should be discouraged in favour of cycling and walking. That's cool. But you're missing something obvious when you break down these distinctions in terms of routes or areas served. Public transport will form part and parcel of all transport options regardless of (populated/urban) destinations served. But walking or cycling will be precluded to many different people for different reasons. Weather is a big issue. Carriage of luggage. Accompanying children. Temporary or permanent mobility issues. Things that buses etc can all cater for, while cycling will always primarily serve the needs of a healthy individual cycling in safe conditions.

Practically all of society can benefit from the provision and use of public transport, the same can't be said for cycling. And cycling can have a reasonably significant capital cost in comparison to the number of people a bus could carry over its lifetime. That needs to be considered too.

markpb

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

There are some great ideas in this thread but unfortunately we just don't have the population to justify the majority of them

Which ones specifically do you think we lack population for?

Polar101

monument wrote: »

Large numbers using public transport for short to mid distances when they could be walking or cycling should be seen as a waste of limited resources -- resources which should be aimed at longer distances.

I'd bet that for the majority, the alternative to using public transport for short/medium distances is car ownership, not walking or cycling.

invincibl3

pigtown wrote: »

If I was king of Limerick (and the Midwest)

Build a new rail and bus station at Roches St. (the entire left-hand block from Parnell St. to Catherine St.) with rail underground, long and medium haul bus routes in new ground level bus station with local buses departing from the footpath outside. Make Roches St. bus and taxi only.

Intercity services would be:
Galway-Cork, stopping at Ennis, Limerick, Limerick Junction, and Mallow. 8 services a day with the first trains getting into Galway and Cork before 8.30 a.m. and the last trains departing not before 9 p.m. This service would connect with a shuttle to Clonmel and Waterford.
An hourly shuttle service connecting Limerick with the Dublin-Cork train would take up the slack on the hours when the above mentioned service wasn't running.

Open a 3 line DART style service that runs to:

• Raheen, stopping at the industrial estate (P&R), Crescent S.C., Fr. Russel Rd., and Childers Rd.
• Cratloe (P&R), stopping at Moyross, Corbally, Parkway (shuttle to Annacotty industrial Estate via UL), and St. Josephs Hospital.
• Annacotty industrial estate (shuttle to Parkway via UL), stopping at Crossagalla (P&R) and St. Josephs Hospital.

This service would run on a 15 minute frequency.

A longer commuter service to Ennis (hourly), Nenagh (hourly at peak, two
hours off-peak), and Thurles (peak services only).

All of these new stations would be more like a Luas stop than a railway station. They would be built in conjunction with a comprehensive public bikes scheme with many kilometres of off road bike lanes linking the station with housing estates, shopping centres and retail parks that are not within reasonable walking distance.

Nice, out of interest, where would the 1/2 million extra people needed to use these lines come from?