Pelz Pitching Method

GreeBo

So, on the back of a poor performance hitting (admittedly postage stamp sized) temp greens on Saturday, I decided to spend some time today working on pitches and approaches from 20M to 100M using the Pelz method.

I was out there for ~4 hours and actually didnt get past 60M

I have defined 4 swings for each club
1) Club parallel
2) Club vertical
3) "easy" full swing
4) "Proper" full swing


All bar 4) are taken with a light, very weak grip. This is based on feedback from my pro that a weak grip is better for less than full shots as you dont have the time or body movement to square up a regular/strong grip like you do in the full swing.

So My distances are:
20M - LW 1
30M - SW 1
40M - LW 2
50M - LW 3
60M - SW 2

This took quite a while to get used to as its a huge change from my previous method. Previously I used my LW from 20M to 80M going up and down the grip and *really* delofting the club and keeping it closed for all the backswing. While this was accurate distance-wise, the ball flight was low enough, and not always consistent.

This new method is using the loft of the club much more, rotating open on the way back; I was actually seeing nice action from all the shots, even from 20M.

I played a little game with 10 balls each at 2 targets (30M & 40M) and managed 11/20 within 8 feet, hitting the flag twice, still one or two chunked, but mostly pretty damn good.

I found it interesting that I switch from LW to SW and then back to LW for 20-40M, took me a while to figure that out actually...

So...long post, but wondering (if you got this far!) is anyone else using this method and what club/swings are you using for each distance? Do you have any awkward gaps? ( I spent ages trying to "find" 50M, switching between LW, SW and even PW!)

PARlance

^^^ Is an area I plan on working over the next few months.
Have never practiced this area but recognise it is a must and now have the opportunity with new club.

It's pot luck which shot I go for 20-100m.
The results reflect that.

Keano

You lost me at metres!

But seriously I'm focusing on practicing with 9-LW but I prefer the clock method.

alxmorgan

Tried it but was struggling to get comfortable with it.
The fineese swing just didn't feel right
So I went with arm parallel to to ground and club at 90 degrees to that with controlled swing to give me:

LW - 55
SW - 65
GW - 75
PW - 85
9 - 95

For less than 55 I go with feel
For in between I take some off or add some on.
Works out, don't have the time or access to relevant facilities to get any more accurate

Changed irons before Xmas which has thrown me a small bit as they seem to be going further and haven't had chance to re-dial yet.

Webbs

GreeBo wrote: »

So My distances are:
20M - LW 1
30M - SW 1
40M - LW 2
50M - LW 3
60M - SW 2

Would the distances under 40M not be governed by whats in front of you rather than distance, i.e is there a large green, undulating green, uphill to flag, downhill etc.
I'd agree with the other posters that these distances are more about feel for me.
Or maybe I'm jealous that you can hit lob wedge consistently from these distances

InTheRough

I've used the Pelz method for years now; it takes a little getting used to but can be very effective. One of the things I had to do was for each wedge I taped the distances for each swing length i.e. 10.30, 9, 7.30 onto the shaft, otherwise I found there was a lot to remember.

Kace

InTheRough wrote: »

I've used the Pelz method for years now; it takes a little getting used to but can be very effective. One of the things I had to do was for each wedge I taped the distances for each swing length i.e. 10.30, 9, 7.30 onto the shaft, otherwise I found there was a lot to remember.

+1 - my distances are taped onto all 4 wedges also. I wouldn't say I use the full method religiously and according to the book, but the principles are there.

GreeBo

Webbs wrote: »

Would the distances under 40M not be governed by whats in front of you rather than distance, i.e is there a large green, undulating green, uphill to flag, downhill etc.
I'd agree with the other posters that these distances are more about feel for me.
Or maybe I'm jealous that you can hit lob wedge consistently from these distances

Well I guess the whole point of the system is that 40M is 40M, irrespective of what else is going on around you. If you are relying on feel then you are bringing in more variability than desired. If its a standard 40M or 20M scenario then you should have a standard shot for that.

From 40M I would expect the ball to be sitting down pretty quickly, so other factors shouldnt really come into it.
( If its a pin just above a tier etc however I would be running it in with an 8i/6i )

TRS30

GreeBo- did you do this on a course, a range or in your garden? Just wondering did you use the same type of ball that you play with, pace out or laser distance etc.

GreeBo

TRS30 wrote: »

GreeBo- did you do this on a course, a range or in your garden? Just wondering did you use the same type of ball that you play with, pace out or laser distance etc.

I did it on a practice area in my club, pre-measured targets.
Didnt use my typical ball as its not hitting to a manicured green so didnt really see the point.

I use my "real" ball for putting, chipping and other "delicate/feel" shots.
I dont think the carry distance variance between good and bad balls will matter hitting onto a wet fairway at this time of year

My plan is to do this regularily, a) to get better at it and b) to see how the distances change with weather.

BoardsMember

Is there any decent driving range or similar facility open to the public that would allow for this kind of thing, i.e. measured targets etc. I'm in south Dublin near the M50. We have a very modest practise area, no closely cut grass, no measured or multiple targets etc. The Pelz clinic in Killeen would be ideal but its not exactly close by!

GreeBo

BoardsMember wrote: »

Is there any decent driving range or similar facility open to the public that would allow for this kind of thing, i.e. measured targets etc. I'm in south Dublin near the M50. We have a very modest practise area, no closely cut grass, no measured or multiple targets etc. The Pelz clinic in Killeen would be ideal but its not exactly close by!

Leopardstown driving range has a short game area, but Ive never been so not sure what extent it is, might just be bunkers and chipping.

In reality if you have an area thats 100M or less you can just pace it out and leave a towel or something at the distances, it doesnt need to be mown grass, you just want carry distances.
(obviously chips etc are different)

spacecoyote

BoardsMember wrote: »

Is there any decent driving range or similar facility open to the public that would allow for this kind of thing, i.e. measured targets etc. I'm in south Dublin near the M50. We have a very modest practise area, no closely cut grass, no measured or multiple targets etc. The Pelz clinic in Killeen would be ideal but its not exactly close by!

There is a lovely short game area out in Carton, but not sure how steep it would be to use.

There is also a short game area as far as I know in Newcastle range which shouldn't be too far out of your way, up the N7 at the back of Baldonnel. http://www.newcastlegolfcentredublin.com/

could be worth a try

WHIP IT!

Great thread, some intersting stuff here and alot of food for thought... wish the weather would get feckin' better so I head out with a bucket of balls and have a wee chip n putt!

GreeBo

Disaster.
So this morning Im out on the range at training...its freezing and a gale blowing into and across.
My partner for the drill asks me to hit a pitch to the 40M pin, no bother I think to myself, its a LW2.
Take a nice relaxed swing, lovely contact, ball lands just past the 50M pin...

hmmm....have another go...another perfect strike, ball lands right at 50M pin....back to the drawing board.

BoardsMember

GreeBo wrote: »

....My partner for the drill......

Hang on a second, you never mentioned having a partner for the drill....that's like cheating or something

GreeBo

BoardsMember wrote: »

Hang on a second, you never mentioned having a partner for the drill....that's like cheating or something

Well it was "team training" so there were technically 17 partners + 1 Pro

BoardsMember

That's a big team! Is it a team for inter-club matches?

GreeBo

BoardsMember wrote: »

That's a big team! Is it a team for inter-club matches?

Yeah its for all the interclub teams, so anyone who is on, or who wants to be on is welcome to go, we had Trackman out over the last few weeks, which was fun

I'm still kinda shocked at the differences saw today though...I expected to be short due to the wind and the freezing weather, not 25% longer!

Maybe the cold was affecting my swing and I was actually swinging harder than I thought..still though...not good.

Will have to hit the range again ASAP!

charlieIRL

thats some serious practice your putting in for saturday!! You did hear Ricky isn't going??!! :P:D

Ben1977

Well GreeBo how are you getting on with the pitching?

I'm struggling with it myself at the moment. Have entered a lot of teams this year in the foursomes format and found that I can be left with those inbetween yardages while all us mid handicappers love!!

Think i'm getting myself in a bit of a mess when standing over the ball. Somewhere between a full shot and a chip is how ugly my pitch attempt is.

GreeBo

Ben1977 wrote: »

Well GreeBo how are you getting on with the pitching?

I'm struggling with it myself at the moment. Have entered a lot of teams this year in the foursomes format and found that I can be left with those inbetween yardages while all us mid handicappers love!!

Think i'm getting myself in a bit of a mess when standing over the ball. Somewhere between a full shot and a chip is how ugly my pitch attempt is.

Not too badly actually...seeing some good results on the course.
(Apart from the first time when I had a 30M shot and I was so excited to see how good it was that I bladed it OOB )

I'm finding that there is still some wiggle room for swinging a bit longer or a bit shorter, but I have a concrete idea of what goes each distance so it takes out a lot of the guesswork, which makes these shots far easier.

Id highly advise going out and at least working from 50M and in.

FixdePitchmark

GreeBo wrote: »

Not too badly actually...seeing some good results on the course.
(Apart from the first time when I had a 30M shot and I was so excited to see how good it was that I bladed it OOB )

I'm finding that there is still some wiggle room for swinging a bit longer or a bit shorter, but I have a concrete idea of what goes each distance so it takes out a lot of the guesswork, which makes these shots far easier.

Id highly advise going out and at least working from 50M and in.

Thanks GreeBo was looking for this - found the weak loose idea interesting. Hit the flag and holed today - i know that means nothing (could happen any day) but a sign for me. Just practicing more these days on short stuff.

Ben1977

Does the Pelz method stick to one ball position or is it moved area for high and low shots? How opened would you suggest the stance to be if at all?

GreeBo

Ben1977 wrote: »

Does the Pelz method stick to one ball position or is it moved area for high and low shots? How opened would you suggest the stance to be if at all?

This isnt really for high/low shots, its for pitching the ball a consistent distance as often as possible.

For punch/flop its feel tbh, just no way around it. (Obviosly if you move the ball back and apply the same Pelz-like rules you will learn a lower shot that goes specific distances, but its not really what the system is aimed at)

My stance is square to a tiny bit open for the shorter shots, weak grip, everything else is normal. (Arms mainly, not much shoulder ; the less that moves to easier it is to repeat)

InTheRough

The images attached shows Plezs rules for ball position in good lies.

Ben1977

So I've decided that this is the area that really needs so work. So over the next couple of months I'll be using this method. I've already taken measurements for my wedges. I've a list stuck to the laser just to remind me of the distances.

Did you stick with this technique all through the year GreeBo? Anyone else stuck to this technique?

So I've got a setup off, ball centre of stance and feet a little open. Feet only 6 inches apart. Soft grip.

4 swing lengths:- Club parallel, arm parallel, 3/4 and full. For LW to GW, distance covered from 30yds to 110yds carry.

Any tips that might improve it?

alxmorgan

Ben1977 wrote: »

So I've decided that this is the area that really needs so work. So over the next couple of months I'll be using this method. I've already taken measurements for my wedges. I've a list stuck to the laser just to remind me of the distances.

Did you stick with this technique all through the year GreeBo? Anyone else stuck to this technique?

So I've got a setup off, ball centre of stance and feet a little open. Feet only 6 inches apart. Soft grip.

4 swing lengths:- Club parallel, arm parallel, 3/4 and full. For LW to GW, distance covered from 30yds to 110yds carry.

Any tips that might improve it?

I started (am still there) with just arm parallel for four distances with four different wedges.
I felt it was better to get very good at that than so-so with bigger distances
This was due to limited practice time. If you have lots then go for it.
I managed in-between distances by taking a little off or adding a little on (more by feel really)

The other thing I would say is focus on tempo. Get slower or quicker and same swing will create different distances. I usually try to get to the practice area for 10 mins before playing and hit a few balls my recorded distances to help me dial in tempo. So if I am long (GPS used to measure to practice areas flags) I slow down and vice vearsa

GreeBo

alxmorgan wrote: »

I started (am still there) with just arm parallel for four distances with four different wedges.
I felt it was better to get very good at that than so-so with bigger distances
This was due to limited practice time. If you have lots then go for it.
I managed in-between distances by taking a little off or adding a little on (more by feel really)

The other thing I would say is focus on tempo. Get slower or quicker and same swing will create different distances. I usually try to get to the practice area for 10 mins before playing and hit a few balls my recorded distances to help me dial in tempo. So if I am long (GPS used to measure to practice areas flags) I slow down and vice vearsa

+1 on tempo.
not only can it cause your 30m to go 50m, it also leads to more duffed and skulled shots (at least for me!)

Ben1977 wrote: »

So I've decided that this is the area that really needs so work. So over the next couple of months I'll be using this method. I've already taken measurements for my wedges. I've a list stuck to the laser just to remind me of the distances.

Did you stick with this technique all through the year GreeBo? Anyone else stuck to this technique?

So I've got a setup off, ball centre of stance and feet a little open. Feet only 6 inches apart. Soft grip.

4 swing lengths:- Club parallel, arm parallel, 3/4 and full. For LW to GW, distance covered from 30yds to 110yds carry.

Any tips that might improve it?

Yep I stuck with it. My club has a practice area (grass) with targets @30, 30, 50, 60m so I have club/swing combinations for them.

Its great on the course to look at the GPS and see a number you know, helps to make a confident swing.
It also helps when laying up (especially on Par 3's )

shaneon77

I taped my distances to the side of my laser. I have found it very useful this past season but lads think I'm mad looking for exact distances from inside 20 yards. I also have to disagree with some early posts suggesting its all about carry distances. There is a good amount of roll out that has to be allowed for using this method as there is not enough swing speed with the finesse swing to put check on the ball. I've also discovered that this method has almost exactly the same distance from the rough as it does from tightly mowed areas. I allow roughly +/- 10% up/down hill which simplifies it even more.
Word of advice...... Make sure to hit down on the ball every time for the most consistent results I.e. Keep the hands slightly ahead of the ball always.

FixdePitchmark

shaneon77 wrote: »

I taped my distances to the side of my laser. I have found it very useful this past season but lads think I'm mad looking for exact distances from inside 20 yards. I also have to disagree with some early posts suggesting its all about carry distances. There is a good amount of roll out that has to be allowed for using this method as there is not enough swing speed with the finesse swing to put check on the ball. I've also discovered that this method has almost exactly the same distance from the rough as it does from tightly mowed areas. I allow roughly +/- 10% up/down hill which simplifies it even more.
Word of advice...... Make sure to hit down on the ball every time for the most consistent results I.e. Keep the hands slightly ahead of the ball always.

What is the closest you would laser from - so less than 60 feet ?

shaneon77

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

What is the closest you would laser from - so less than 60 feet ?

yes less than 60 feet. My 7.30 swing with the 60 deg wedge is 17 yards. If it is easier to chip than pitch then I'll pace it out unless it interferes with my playing partners line, in that case I'll laser it 10 yards and out. I have specific distances for my chips to so I need a distance everytime.

FixdePitchmark

shaneon77 wrote: »

yes less than 60 feet. My 7.30 swing with the 60 deg wedge is 17 yards. If it is easier to chip than pitch then I'll pace it out unless it interferes with my playing partners line, in that case I'll laser it 10 yards and out. I have specific distances for my chips to so I need a distance everytime.

Is 10 yards a bit unusual.

shaneon77

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Is 10 yards a bit unusual.

not if my chip swing with my 60 gives me ten yards almost always when executed properly.

GreeBo

shaneon77 wrote: »

I taped my distances to the side of my laser. I have found it very useful this past season but lads think I'm mad looking for exact distances from inside 20 yards. I also have to disagree with some early posts suggesting its all about carry distances. There is a good amount of roll out that has to be allowed for using this method as there is not enough swing speed with the finesse swing to put check on the ball. I've also discovered that this method has almost exactly the same distance from the rough as it does from tightly mowed areas. I allow roughly +/- 10% up/down hill which simplifies it even more.
Word of advice...... Make sure to hit down on the ball every time for the most consistent results I.e. Keep the hands slightly ahead of the ball always.

it's all about carry for my distances, when I'm practicing I'm trying to slam dunk the ball into the hole, I don't care where it finishes add that's going to be different pretty much every time anyway.

also, I spin the ball with my 20m shot, perhaps you are delofting the club excessively?
20m for me is my 60 with my right hand just off the bottom of the grip, swinging to horizontal. the ball goes high and spots after a hop on a normal green, there is no roll out.

I can spin it from even closer, still playing a pitch by opening the face but that's a feel shot, starting with a known distance and adjusting for the conditions.

I think lasering a 10 yard chip and run is excessive, if you paced it out of be expecting you to hole it, otherwise I'd get bored waiting for you tbh.
there is too much inconsistent rollout over that distance to warrant laser.

shaneon77

I do care where it finishes if I miss. I'm also MUCH more comfortable with a 10 yard chip than a 30 foot putt. Its not excessive but it is unusual. I won't make a 12 yard chip with my 10 yard swing so what's the point in gambling... I'll take the 15 yard club and take some off it. As long as I'm happy I don't mind what others feel about my style of play.

josie19

shaneon77 wrote: »

I do care where it finishes if I miss. I'm also MUCH more comfortable with a 10 yard chip than a 30 foot putt. Its not excessive but it is unusual. I won't make a 12 yard chip with my 10 yard swing so what's the point in gambling... I'll take the 15 yard club and take some off it. As long as I'm happy I don't mind what others feel about my style of play.

I think you'll struggle to keep playing partners with that attitude. I sometimes laser from around 40 yards but I try to do it when it's not my shot so I'm ready when it's my turn. I'm very conscious of people's perception that laser slows play. Lasering from 10 yards is bound to piss people off imo

shaneon77

josie19 wrote: »

I think you'll struggle to keep playing partners with that attitude. I sometimes laser from around 40 yards but I try to do it when it's not my shot so I'm ready when it's my turn. I'm very conscious of people's perception that laser slows play. Lasering from 10 yards is bound to piss people off imo

of course i also try to do it when its not my shot, i keep my laser in my pocket so there's no delay.
Its perfectly acceptable and in in no way slows up play.
I play with lads who wouldn't be too slow about letting you know it was unacceptable.
Whats the point in me using the pelz method if i'm not able to find out my yardages?

realgolfgeek

If one of my playing partners was lasering from 10 yards, I'd be sure never to play with them again.

That's so effin ridiculous it's frightening.

PARlance

shaneon77 wrote: »

I do care where it finishes if I miss. I'm also MUCH more comfortable with a 10 yard chip than a 30 foot putt. Its not excessive but it is unusual. I won't make a 12 yard chip with my 10 yard swing so what's the point in gambling... I'll take the 15 yard club and take some off it. As long as I'm happy I don't mind what others feel about my style of play.

What are the differences between your 10 yard chip and your 15 yard chip?
i.e is it the same club, what's the variance in the swing itself.

It'd be interesting to see your full range of shots from say 10 to 100 yards.
Do you have a "shot" for every 5 yards?

I am at the other end of the spectrum, short game is an area that I haven't put much (ok.. any) work into so far, but it's a top priority for me over the winter.
At present, I could be 20 yards out with a flat approach and I would have doubt over which wedge to even use. So that's how far away I am from your method.

Could I ask what HC you are? Or what improvements in HC you have seen since you started this detailed approach...pun intended

alxmorgan

realgolfgeek wrote: »

If one of my playing partners was lasering from 10 yards, I'd be sure never to play with them again.

That's so effin ridiculous it's frightening.

Based on what though ? I mean if it doesn't slow him up then what difference does it make ?

I wouldn't do it but then I'm not that accurate. Plus at that distance I think feel is what would guide me. But who am I tell someone how to play the game ?

FixdePitchmark

shaneon77 wrote: »

of course i also try to do it when its not my shot, i keep my laser in my pocket so there's no delay.
Its perfectly acceptable and in in no way slows up play.
I play with lads who wouldn't be too slow about letting you know it was unacceptable.
Whats the point in me using the pelz method if i'm not able to find out my yardages?

What did you do before you had a laser ?
Are they not too big for pockets ?
How much has your handicap dropped since you did this ?
Do you see many people do this, do your partners do this ?

Of course you can do what you want - just is going to be a bit silly for some, but you don't care about what others think - so fair play - that is a way to get the best out of your golf.

I must do a bit of digging about how all this became legal - this is a personal thing - but I don't think they should be allowed at all - but that is well covered here.

When lads are lasering from 10 yards it has gone too far - it has become too much of an advantage. There are arguments about distance - well made - but to take this to an end point - a laser in itself at 10 yards could act as an alignment tool at that stage. Just to ask can you zoom at that point ? If so, you could use it to read greens too. Or at least get a read somebody without a laser couldn't.

Again - it is not covered in the rules , but the next step after reading this is for some lad to use it on the green. :eek:

shaneon77

I'll just revisit what i stated previously. If i cannot pace out my distance from the fringe or fairway, when close to the green, due to infringing on a playing partners line then i will use my laser before chipping while another player takes his shot.

When using the pelz method for pitching (4x4) I will always use my laser so i know how far away i am from my target as i may be in first cut or rough. I never change this.
I use only 1 chipping swing and change the club according to the distance away from the pin/the lie/ green conditions etc.

I work in from 10 yards with my 60 degree wedge and change up to a different wedge every 5 yards gripping up or down the shaft to allow for slope of green. if it goes too far then i picked the wrong club or hit it too hard . if i picked the wrong club its usually because i guessed at the distance. if i hit it too hard then there is a problem with my chip swing.

I play off 6 and have days when none of the above works for me and days when i get up and down from all over the place. its a personal preference. its part of my pre- shot routine and causes no delays so if it grates on someone i may be playing with then there is little i can do to accommodate them.

The thread is about the pelz pitching method and i have described how i use it and how i have to be accurate about the distances in order for this method to be consistent "for me"

shaneon77

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

What did you do before you had a laser ?

Again - it is not covered in the rules , but the next step after reading this is for some lad to use it on the green. :eek:

I've never considered it as a green reading tool but assume it would be legal. i'd have to carry a few spare batteries though if i were to implement that also!

stockdam

I'm out.

My pitching and chipping is so bad that no method nor lasers will fix it. I can duff it five yards as easily as I thin one 50 yards.

But when people start to user lasers from 20 yards in then I shake my head. Maybe it's because my short game is so poor but I do have to wonder why people need a laser to judge 10 yards.

bobwilliams

stockdam wrote: »

I'm out.

My pitching and chipping is so bad that no method nor lasers will fix it. I can duff it five yards as easily as I thin one 50 yards.

But when people start to user lasers from 20 yards in then I shake my head. Maybe it's because my short game is so poor but I do have to wonder why people need a laser to judge 10 yards.

totally agree, chipping is all about feel,you'll gain that from practice.
Lasers are allowed on the euro pro tour and I can tell you for sure NO pro will laser from inside about 40-50 yards.They will take every advantage available so why not laser from ten yards??????
It's all well an good saying the club is just going parallel but it's about hand-eye co-ordination and feel which tells your brain how much force to give.

I respect players trying different methods but this one is not something that will work over time,god forbid if you left your laser behind in the house.

FixdePitchmark

bobwilliams wrote: »

totally agree, chipping is all about feel,you'll gain that from practice.
Lasers are allowed on the euro pro tour and I can tell you for sure NO pro will laser from inside about 40-50 yards.They will take every advantage available so why not laser from ten yards??????
It's all well an good saying the club is just going parallel but it's about hand-eye co-ordination and feel which tells your brain how much force to give.

I respect players trying different methods but this one is not something that will work over time,god forbid if you left your laser behind in the house.

Good post.

But are they allowed on euro tour ?????

shaneon77

I agree with what most people here are saying, i know not many that do what i do (if anyone at all) but i am not going to stop doing it.
I played in a comp recently where morning mist prevented my laser from working, I played awful until the mist cleared so you definitely have a point.
With regards to the euro pro tour..If I had access to the yardage books and, quite often, the caddies who are paid I would have no need to laser as I'd have the info I need already. These guys know how far they have to hit on every shot.
Short game of course is about feel and I'm developing mine still through use of technology, Its a personal thing.

bobwilliams

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Good post.

But are they allowed on euro tour ?????

No

bobwilliams

shaneon77 wrote: »

.
With regards to the euro pro tour..If I had access to the yardage books and, quite often, the caddies who are paid I would have no need to laser as I'd have the info I need already. These guys know how far they have to hit on every shot.
.

most players on the euro pro don't have caddys,they have a basic yardage book,and I don't think it's that they know how far to hit every shot,it's just the feel and touch they have is far superior to ours.
For eg a pro doesn't need to know if he's 20 or 25 yards from the cup,he just picks a spot based on the trajectory needed and executes.

FixdePitchmark

shaneon77 wrote: »

I agree with what most people here are saying, i know not many that do what i do (if anyone at all) but i am not going to stop doing it.
I played in a comp recently where morning mist prevented my laser from working, I played awful until the mist cleared so you definitely have a point.
With regards to the euro pro tour..If I had access to the yardage books and, quite often, the caddies who are paid I would have no need to laser as I'd have the info I need already. These guys know how far they have to hit on every shot.
Short game of course is about feel and I'm developing mine still through use of technology, Its a personal thing.

But that is the thing that other players are annoyed over. Your not on the European tour.
It is the same for these lads , that have a pre shot routine that is too long.

I think you saying you are using technology to replace feel . That is the first admittance on here that that a laser is more than a little innocent electronic yardage book. They should be looked at it again and banned (imo). Only sport I know of with electronic aid.

Sorry back to pelz. Does he talk about using a laser in book.