Des Hanlon Memorial race

Pawlie

Anyone with info on this race on next Sunday,any info on how the a4 race went last year.

Thanks Pawlie.

sheepfield

The A4 race is about 65km, nothing much happens till you hit castlecomer and the first of 4 hard climbs in succession. Its typically a darwinian survivalofthefittest type thing from there onwards. If you are planning your race winning move at the final climb pawlie, you have 19km to the finish, all downhill but into a likely cold headwind. Dont be surprised if you encounter snow on the route too. And if you mamge to win in that scenario, you are probably better than A4. Best of luck

MichealD

Position all important for that left turn onto the hill at Castlecomer. Ideally you need to be in the top 10/15 rounding the bend and down in the small ring for the climb. Guarantee you half a dozen riders will unship the chain in the first 50m of the climb. Get stuck behind one and your unclipped and standing in the road.

An Irish classic. Probably the hardest A1/2 race of the season (along with Shay Elliott). Tough hard mans course. Hard, exposed roads. Plenty of climbing and super fast descents. There are no lucky winners of these races.

Pawlie

Thanks very much for the insight lads,its gona be a very tough race.

Any map with gradients or even strava upload of it,will the route be same as last years one,did I read that they changed it last year due to some deadly corners towards finish ?

SACH Central

Hard race alright. My Strava from the race here The route was changed for the race last year. It made the A4 race harder and longer. The 'old' finish, down to main Carlow/Kilkenny road was in a bad way after the frost/snow/ice of the winter.

New route made for a better race IMO. It was a real war of attrition on the last climb, last man standing and all that. The was a couple of crashes last year. One at that left turn at the bottom of the first hill in Castlecomer - one fella at least, did a face plant into the wall there - also a major crash at the finish last year with riders sprinting for the minor placings - a couple of lads carted off in the ambulance IIRC

Pawlie

SACH Central wrote: »

Hard race alright. My Strava from the race here The route was changed for the race last year. It made the A4 race harder and longer. The 'old' finish, down to main Carlow/Kilkenny road was in a bad way after the frost/snow/ice of the winter.

New route made for a better race IMO. It was a real war of attrition on the last climb, last man standing and all that. The was a couple of crashes last year. One at that left turn at the bottom of the first hill in Castlecomer - one fella at least, did a face plant into the wall there - also a major crash at the finish last year with riders sprinting for the minor placings - a couple of lads carted off in the ambulance IIRC

Thanks very much for that info,yea I seen a clip on you tube about that sprint crash,poor chap was sprinting like mad a veered into the cones and kaboom down he went,

SACH Central

Pawlie wrote: »

Thanks very much for that info,yea I seen a clip on you tube about that sprint crash,poor chap was sprinting like mad a veered into the cones and kaboom down he went,

That was a couple of years ago!! - the old finish. Last year the big crash was on the bridge over the Barrow at the finish.

pprendeville

SACH Central wrote: »

Hard race alright. My Strava from the race here The route was changed for the race last year. It made the A4 race harder and longer. The 'old' finish, down to main Carlow/Kilkenny road was in a bad way after the frost/snow/ice of the winter.

New route made for a better race IMO. It was a real war of attrition on the last climb, last man standing and all that. The was a couple of crashes last year. One at that left turn at the bottom of the first hill in Castlecomer - one fella at least, did a face plant into the wall there - also a major crash at the finish last year with riders sprinting for the minor placings - a couple of lads carted off in the ambulance IIRC

are those gradients on Strava reliable, i.e. max of about 8% on the last climb? so this doesn't contain any laps, just one long route? same route this year as your Strava link?

Edit: looks like 2 laps for the A3s. http://ridewithgps.com/routes/1021400

colm_gti

This is gonna hurt after the Lucan GP on Saturday....

Pawlie

pprendeville wrote: »

are those gradients on Strava reliable, i.e. max of about 8% on the last climb? so this doesn't contain any laps, just one long route? same route this year as your Strava link?

Edit: looks like 2 laps for the A3s. http://ridewithgps.com/routes/1021400

Strava is more or less spot on with its information,yep it one hard route no laps for A4 around 70 km

SACH Central

pprendeville wrote: »

are those gradients on Strava reliable, i.e. max of about 8% on the last climb? so this doesn't contain any laps, just one long route? same route this year as your Strava link?

Yes, As far as I'm aware its the exact same route as last year. Just one lap for the A4's. A3's & A1/A2's do more (a couple of laps within the lap - if that makes sense) as is the norm. As someone posted on another thread here as some point - one big loop is great, there's no easy way out - no point bailing out/no way to bail out, which one can do on a 'circuit' race.

Check out Ryan Sherlock's blog. He wrote about it last year. He'll have his strava stats too. He was 2nd. I think.

1750W

Bring your climbing legs to this one lads. I can see the juniors taking this by storm.

1750W

colm_gti wrote: »

This is gonna hurt after the Lucan GP on Saturday....

Are you going to ride both Colm? Good man!

colm_gti

1750W wrote: »

Are you going to ride both Colm? Good man!

Not going to get any stronger taking it easy on myself

Hmmzis

Looks tough. Guess the most ferocious attacks will be done on the Rossmore Climb. From the top of that climb there are only about 13k to go with all down hill. If the climbers play it well and knock out 30-60sec on the sprinters by the top then there is a chance of them staying away to the line.
Shame I'm not a climber .

wav1

Spoke to the organiser today.
Just a few pointers here
The sign on is in Graiguecullen GAA Grounds on the outskirts of town.
This is a totally DIFFERENT GAA Ground than where the sign on was last year.
This location is off one of the roundabouts on the way out of town in the direction the race takes out of town.He said it should be signed on the day.
Sign on is until 12.30 for a 1pm start.
He also said to me,that they have a reserve circuit in place as they are still
worried about the white stuff on the high ground,and indeed more expected.
Off topic I know but with the weather this year it strenghtens the arguement
for having a full calender of road races right to the end of September when
we usually have our Indian Summer.

1750W

wav1 wrote: »

Spoke to the organiser today.
Just a few pointers here
The sign on is in Graiguecullen GAA Grounds on the outskirts of town.
This is a totally DIFFERENT GAA Ground than where the sign on was last year.
This location is off one of the roundabouts on the way out of town in the direction the race takes out of town.He said it should be signed on the day.
Sign on is until 12.30 for a 1pm start.
He also said to me,that they have a reserve circuit in place as they are still
worried about the white stuff on the high ground,and indeed more expected.
Off topic I know but with the weather this year it strenghtens the arguement
for having a full calender of road races right to the end of September when
we usually have our Indian Summer.

I would love to see it go up the BUTTS. Good memories of lots of PAIN

Morrisseeee

1750W wrote: »

I would love to see it go up the BUTTS. Good memories of lots of PAIN

Whatever you're into I suppose :rolleyes:
/perhaps you're in the wrong forum

:pac:

Hungrycol

wav1 wrote: »

Spoke to the organiser today.
Just a few pointers here
The sign on is in Graiguecullen GAA Grounds on the outskirts of town.
This is a totally DIFFERENT GAA Ground than where the sign on was last year.
This location is off one of the roundabouts on the way out of town in the direction the race takes out of town.He said it should be signed on the day.
Sign on is until 12.30 for a 1pm start.
He also said to me,that they have a reserve circuit in place as they are still
worried about the white stuff on the high ground,and indeed more expected.
Off topic I know but with the weather this year it strenghtens the arguement
for having a full calender of road races right to the end of September when
we usually have our Indian Summer.

This deserves a thread in itself!

CaoimH_in

I've read it has hairy descents: anyone with experience want to go into detail?

wav1

CaoimH_in wrote: »

I've read it's has hairy descents: anyone with experience want to go into detail?

Their not too bad at all.
Anyway theres no such thing as hairy descents,just kamakaze riders.

pprendeville

Up the BUTTS and hairy descents. What are we going to get next. At this rate I'll be afraid to climb out of the saddle for fear of being assaulted.

velo.2010

Reserve circuit? They might try and get the race up to the Butts but continue straight on instead of taking the right turn-off. Shorter loop but avoids that higher and more exposed side of the hills if indeed the weather stays cold.

Mad weather all the same. I got seriously sunburnt that day last year!

smurphy29

Sticky Bottle has this down as 78km for the A4s... as opposed to 65ish. Anyone know which is correct?

Pawlie

smurphy29 wrote: »

Sticky Bottle has this down as 78km for the A4s... as opposed to 65ish. Anyone know which is correct?

Was told by guys that it is 74km for the a4,they have stravas up from last years race.

53x11

@CarlowCycling will be doing live twitter updates on hashtag "#TheDES" for Sundays race...(subject to coverage..... x'd fingers) any twitter fans please spread the word, thanks.... All the route details, timing, etc. are available here http://www.carlowcycling.ie/#/deshanlon-mem-race-route/4559051510

bonzie1

Hi Pawlie. if you go to carlowcycling.ie then events all the info you will need is there . Cheers. carlowcycling facebook has the times and direction.

bonzie1

Check our facebook page for directions. Thanks.

killalanerr

€15 down with this sort of thing,the rules clearly say its a tenner ajust the prize to suit,other clubs can do it

Pawlie

killalanerr wrote: »

€15 down with this sort of thing,the rules clearly say its a tenner ajust the prize to suit,other clubs can do it

I wonder should a4's pay less,should they pay the same amount for less race time and also the a4 numbers seem to be treble the other groups at times,

buffalo

killalanerr wrote: »

€15 down with this sort of thing,the rules clearly say its a tenner ajust the prize to suit,other clubs can do it

+1 Never mind about the cash prizes, I'm not competing for those (though I won't say no to one). I know we all have €5k bikes, but some of us worked hard to get them, and lumping an extra fiver on top of the standard cost, along with petrol money, at such short notice is not fuppin' on.

Leinster races are supposed to be a tenner, just take a few quid out of the envelopes. If anyone complains that theirs is too small, I'll be the first to give them a tongue lashing.

killalanerr

My take on is it that if i was to flaunt the rules im sure one of the coms would be having a word in my ear so why should it be any different for a club,i will be raising with the com on Sunday but i fully expect to be fobbed off with a good humoured remark

wav1

If theres any one on here from the organisers please note the following.

The MAXIMUM entry fee allowed to be charged for one day open races in Leinster is set at 10 euro.If the organisers wished to charge more the protocol is that they would apply to Cycling Leinster way in advance of the race to REQUEST that they could charge more.This would be considered at committee level and a decision made in due course.
Quite simply on Sunday the Leinster appointed commissaires will not allow this and indeed the wheels have already been set in motion to ensure it doesn't happen.If the organisers have to tweak their budget etc now is the time to do it,as again e10 is the max you're going to get from each rider.

I would be the first to acknowledge that fixed costs are on the up for promoters,and with on line entry planned for 2014 where there will be a commission issue etc from the provider,Im sure an increase of a couple of euro will come in to play next year,but thats next year.
Meanwhile back at the ranch,with no open event on in Munster this weekend Im sure the size of the fields will more than compensate the promoters.Again please note this is Official standing and contact will be made with the organisers prior to the race

manwithaplan

There was still a decent group at the bottom of the last climb in A4 last year. My memory is that it's the longest and toughest climb - I wouldn't advise attacking before then unless you are feeling very strong, particularly as there's a long run from the top to the finish. Four of got away on it last year and contested the finish (well the other three contested it - I came in a poor fourth).

It was a great race last year in brilliant sunshine and warm temperatures, so bring the sun screen and the short sleeved jerseys.

dedocdude

Seeing as there are increased costs this year in regards to comms, lead cars etc. I wouldn't mind the increase in sign on fee of a 5er - you have spent 1000's on your bikes, wall to wall SRM's & Powertaps (in A4 races anyway), dedicated yourselves to training for 10+ hours per week since September - are you really gonna leave all that there for a 5er?

Most MTB races seem to be 20, 25. Triathlon seem to pick a number from the sky (as far as i can tell - but i may be wrong im not a triathlete).

I didn't like in the past one or two rogue organisers hiking the fee when the norm was 10 - but with these extra costs, if it was agreed across the board, i would go along with it.

Is it only in Leinster the sign-on limit is ten Euro's? or is it all provinces - except Ulster obviously

Pawlie

dedocdude wrote: »

Is it only in Leinster the sign-on limit is ten Euro's? or is it all provinces - except Ulster obviously

Think in Munster it maxes to 15,last Sunday was 15 and race was 60km,IMO I think 15 is fair enough especially for races like this coming Sunday as it is long and alot of planning is needed,its not one small lap that would be easier to marshal.

Harrybelafonte

dedocdude wrote: »

Seeing as there are increased costs this year in regards to comms, lead cars etc. I wouldn't mind the increase in sign on fee of a 5er - you have spent 1000's on your bikes, wall to wall SRM's & Powertaps (in A4 races anyway), dedicated yourselves to training for 10+ hours per week since September - are you really gonna leave all that there for a 5er?

Most MTB races seem to be 20, 25. Triathlon seem to pick a number from the sky (as far as i can tell - but i may be wrong im not a triathlete).

I didn't like in the past one or two rogue organisers hiking the fee when the norm was 10 - but with these extra costs, if it was agreed across the board, i would go along with it.

Is it only in Leinster the sign-on limit is ten Euro's? or is it all provinces - except Ulster obviously

Eh, I bought my bike for just over 1k with my redundancy money. Saved for a year for 300e wheels and ride on 10e tyres. I don't have a powertap and only lowest of the low speedo. My pockets are stuffed with Aldi fig rolls and my drink is made with table salt and sugar, no gels, no High 5. I have to get a lift to this race as I can't afford the fuel and I have to pay for Lucan GP the day before too. I sold loads of my gear to get to that point, so yeah, a 50% increase on entry is a big deal for some of us.

wav1

dedocdude wrote: »

Seeing as there are increased costs this year in regards to comms, lead cars etc. I wouldn't mind the increase in sign on fee of a 5er - you have spent 1000's on your bikes, wall to wall SRM's & Powertaps (in A4 races anyway), dedicated yourselves to training for 10+ hours per week since September - are you really gonna leave all that there for a 5er?

Most MTB races seem to be 20, 25. Triathlon seem to pick a number from the sky (as far as i can tell - but i may be wrong im not a triathlete).

I didn't like in the past one or two rogue organisers hiking the fee when the norm was 10 - but with these extra costs, if it was agreed across the board, i would go along with it.

Is it only in Leinster the sign-on limit is ten Euro's? or is it all provinces - except Ulster obviously

Yes Leinster have the fee set at e10.Each provincial committee have the right to do as they so wish.In some provinces its possible that there is no fee/maximum set.But thats the way it is in Leinster and its not fair that one promoter should try and jump the gun here.As I posted earlier there probably will be a couple of euro hike next year but it is what it is at the moment.Theres lots of riders and families out there that the fiver means a lot to at present.With the huge numbers that will probably be there on Sunday Im sure there will be a good intake.Up until about 2 yrs ago promoters had to pay a e2 levy out of the tenner to keep the provincial set up going.This was changed and in essence the promoter now has the e10 instead of e8 a few yrs ago.This really is a 25 per cent increase in funding.

buffalo

dedocdude wrote: »

Seeing as there are increased costs this year in regards to comms, lead cars etc. I wouldn't mind the increase in sign on fee of a 5er - you have spent 1000's on your bikes, wall to wall SRM's & Powertaps (in A4 races anyway), dedicated yourselves to training for 10+ hours per week since September - are you really gonna leave all that there for a 5er?

Do you think it's fair for organisers to turn around a few days before an event and increase the cost by 50%? Knowing that some people have dedicated weeks of training toward this, and will likely go anyway? Or else have all those weeks go to waste for the sake of a fiver? It's holding people to ransom in a way.

Hmmzis

So, would the guys on second hand 400eur bikes with no powertaps or SRMs or any other fancy gadget get a discount?

If the des hanlon hikes up the price I'll probably just go for the Lucan race. Less traveling, earlier start and they follow the rules for the entry fees.

dedocdude

@Harrybelafonte, @wav1 - i hear you, time is main reason i packed it in, but cost also a big factor - i guess my point is if you had everything else in place (bike, training, kit), while the increase is not welcome - it wont stop you racing. Its probably been a tenner since the Euro became our currency - that was 11 years ago. What was a litre of petrol 11 years ago? Race entry probably hasn't kept pace with inflation over that period. Cost of equipment has probably dropped since then with lower end asian producers, large online retailers getting costs lower than LBS can.

Its not deterring lads, Race numbers are thru the roof - 15 bucks was flagged in advance in Carrick last week and they had 280 lads sign on. Look at the stage races, Gorey is annually over-subscribed, Ras Mumhan this year at 65 lids a head has more riders in it this year than last years Tour De France - Suir Valley Classic was 60 quid last year, from many A3 and vet riders who would be in against pro's - they end up with a h0le like a blood orange but they have no problem paying it.

dedocdude

buffalo wrote: »

Do you think it's fair for organisers to turn around a few days before an event and increase the cost by 50%? Knowing that some people have dedicated weeks of training toward this, and will likely go anyway? Or else have all those weeks go to waste for the sake of a fiver? It's holding people to ransom in a way.

100% I agree - for me training was the bigest investment - if its been agreed that its a tenner for 2013, then you cant ask for 15. However, if at the the next CI AGM its agreed to be 15, then I think I have outlined a few reasons why this can be considered fair enough.

dedocdude

Hmmzis wrote: »

So, would the guys on second hand 400eur bikes with no powertaps or SRMs or any other fancy gadget get a discount?

no, not really what i was considering, probably not even the right thing for me to do mentioning the kit that some lads have, i was just putting an example out there of the financial outlay that, lets face it, many riders (of what ever category or ability) that have the means, have no problem making - and how the extra cost of entry fee is quite insignificant towards it.

Anyway's, think this debate could have a thread of its own, this is a thread for the Des Hanlon, what ever its cost, is a class race - probably the best one day of the year in my opinion. Good luck to all on Sunday. Looking at the forecast, expect what the lads had in Milan San Remo last week.

Pawlie

dedocdude wrote: »

Looking at the forecast, expect what the lads had in Milan San Remo last week.

Gona be very cold with very strong wind coming from the east,gona cause some carnage .

ericzeking

Have no problem paying the 15 euro, for what you are getting it is savage value, in saying that I can see that some people may be strapped for cash these times and if a tenner is the agreed fee then it should remain as is.

Personally I don't see why there is prize money at A4, I got in the points last week and could not have cared less about the 20 bob surely the goal at that level is experience, improvement and eventual upgrade, not getting your reg money back.

My view on it is if the reg fee needs to be left at E10, and the organisers are caught for cash, just scrap the prize money for A4. If you are good enough for the prize money end of things to be bothering you, you won't be long in A4 anyway.

buffalo

dedocdude wrote: »

100% I agree - for me training was the bigest investment - if its been agreed that its a tenner for 2013, then you cant ask for 15. However, if at the the next CI AGM its agreed to be 15, then I think I have outlined a few reasons why this can be considered fair enough.

Aye, but being told that next year all Leinster races may cost up to a maximum of €15 is a lot different than being told that the specific race you've been looking forward to is 50% extra four days before it happens.

FWIW, I don't have a powertap or SRM. I finally bought a new bike a couple of months ago that I've been wanting to get for the last year but not been able to afford due to other considerations, and even then I'll be paying for it for the next few months.

Peterx

Des Hanlon is a brilliant race, I had a fantastic day of suffering and fun last year, got dropped on the climb both laps (feckin gravity) and just about chased back on the descent (great gravity) both times. I was fookin wrecked after it.. It was brilliant.
To whoever warmed about lads dropping and stopping all over the road on that left turn into a climb just before Castlecomer, YES, that's a definite - don't be behind a big ringer coming round that corner.

Off Topic - There is way too much money given out as prize money. There should be no prize money at A3 or A4 and reduced prize money at A1/2. It is beyond ridiculous that many race organisers lose money on races and yet feel the need to give wads of cash.
I think you need 50 or 60 racers in A1/2 just to cover the prize money!

manwithaplan

Peterx wrote: »

To whoever warmed about lads dropping and stopping all over the road on that left turn into a climb just before Castlecomer, YES, that's a definite - don't be behind a big ringer coming round that corner.

Fully agree - I dropped my bottle on the main road before this and I went back to the (non-race) traffic behind to mooch water from some kind driver (fair play to the couple who sorted me out with half a bottle of warm ballygowan). This left me at the back coming to this turn and I had to ride up the muck and grass on the side of the road up the climb to get near the front, with all the hesitation and stopping in front of me. You won't naturally be in the small ring because the road drops town into the corner. The turn is tricky enough by the way - somebody came off just in front of me last year. While it's useful to be near the front, don't do anything mad to get there (I appreciate the irony of this).

pprendeville

manwithaplan wrote: »

Fully agree - I dropped my bottle on the main road before this and I went back to the (non-race) traffic behind to mooch water from some kind driver (fair play to the couple who sorted me out with half a bottle of warm ballygowan). This left me at the back coming to this turn and I had to ride up the muck and grass on the side of the road up the climb to get near the front, with all the hesitation and stopping in front of me. You won't naturally be in the small ring because the road drops town into the corner. The turn is tricky enough by the way - somebody came off just in front of me last year. While it's useful to be near the front, don't do anything mad to get there (I appreciate the irony of this).

You'll be missed this year but in a way I'm glad I don't have to watch you speed away from me up a climb like back in Carrigkerry.

Harrybelafonte

dedocdude wrote: »

@Harrybelafonte, @wav1 - i hear you, time is main reason i packed it in, but cost also a big factor - i guess my point is if you had everything else in place (bike, training, kit), while the increase is not welcome - it wont stop you racing. Its probably been a tenner since the Euro became our currency - that was 11 years ago. What was a litre of petrol 11 years ago? Race entry probably hasn't kept pace with inflation over that period. Cost of equipment has probably dropped since then with lower end asian producers, large online retailers getting costs lower than LBS can.

I don't want to be a béal bocht, but I dislike this stereotype of cyclists as wealthy gadget freaks, and I'm still guilty of spending more than I should on bike gear.

J Madone

Can't believe the crying over a fiver, Marshall's don't get paid, they are volunteers, races don't just happen, be they long or short