Positives from this years Six Nations

Clegg

We all know that this seasons tournament has been a disaster for us. The conditioning of our players has gone downhill, our gameplan went missing after the Welsh game, ROG stinking the place out, zero threat in attack etc.

But there have been a few things from this tournament that we can hopefully take heart from:

Paddy Jackson looks a fine player. Solid in defence and isn't afraid to take it up on the gain line. His kick was a bit dodgy against Scotland but he corrected that in his performances against France and Italy. Right now Sexton is the superior player but we no longer have to worry about Sexton's replacement coming on and cocking things up.

Ian Madigan has only played about 60 minutes of six nations rugby but he already looks settled into the squad. He was one of our better players against Italy and had a decent cameo appearance Scotland. He runs good lines and is able to skip away from tacklers with his excellent footwork. He is also the best passer in Ireland and on a couple of occasions he was able to start of some attacks with excellent times and weighted passes out to the wings.

Iain Henderson probably hasn't been involved as much as he should have but he's still impressed me when he's played. He's a physical monster for a 21 year old and dumped Parisse on his arse today. He's strong with ball in hand and a wrecking ball in defence. He can play in the backrow but imo his future lies at lock forward.

And in Luke Marshall we have now found our long term replacement for Gordon D'arcy. He runs excellent lines, is a decent kicker and is another physical beast. He has size and speed and is absolutely fearless.

The likes of Murray, BOD, Healy, Best and SOB have also had solid tournaments.

sydthebeat

So I sez to me trainer 'put on more positives'.....he sez 'there are no more'

Brian

Luke Marshall.

Chiorino

Paddy Jackson, Ian Madigan and Luke Marshall getting some (albeit injury enforced) gametime. Thought Conor Murray improved this year although "quick ball" still is'nt a phrase in his vocabulary.

trouttrout

Luke Marhsall, POM, Murray, Madigan, Jackson, Henderson, Zebo, Gilroy all showed that the future is very bright

Sinbad_NI

New coaching regime might have been assured now.

MolBee

The only positives have been blooding the new guys Jackson, Marshall and Madigan, and giving others like Zebo and Henderson more test match experience. Although I didn't want to see Ireland have such an abysmal campaign just to see Kidney ousted, I'm glad we can now look towards the future with what will HOPEFULLY be a more progressive coaching set up.

I want to say Murray has been a positive in this 6n (and he has gone up in my estimation from last year) but I am still unsure about him. That dithering when he should be firing the ball out is still his big let down and it's infuriating to watch. We have thrown away a few almost certain trys by giving the opposition far far too much time to organise in defense.

jjjd

Ireland stopping Wales from winning the Triple Crown is at least one positive.

bonnieprince

Murray, Zebo, Gilroy, Marshall, Madigan and Jackson to a lesser extent, Madigan looks like a real playmaker from todays game. Jackson had the fear today.

opinionatedfan

Kidney has to be gone.

Young guys given the opportunity by injury showed their potential.

Clearlier

Our defence has been pretty good (exception of second half against Wales when he held back a little).

Marshall and Madigan looked pretty good but they're both 12's. Jackson grew into the role of outhalf. Murray took a step up during the tournament - still another couple to take though before anyone gets too excited.

Deano7788

Clearlier wrote: »

Our defence has been pretty good (exception of second half against Wales when he held back a little).

Marshall and Madigan looked pretty good but they're both 12's. Jackson grew into the role of outhalf. Murray took a step up during the tournament - still another couple to take though before anyone gets too excited.

Since when is Madigan a 12?

[-0-]

It's over.

WoollyRedHat

We beat the champions - my friends
And we'll win that wooden spoon - in the end -
We beat the champions -
We beat the champions
No time for losers
'Cause we beat the champions - of the Six Nations -

slingerz

Ireland need to do the basics and the basics are the set pieces. Along with the other aspects of forward play these are instances the Ireland need to focus on.

Fancying back line play can come about once the solid foundations have been laid. Ireland have been trying to run before they can walk

Anyone

England won nothing despite all their over inflated crap about how good they were.

Clearlier

Deano7788 wrote: »

Since when is Madigan a 12?

Therein lies the problem with typing what I'm thinking but not thinking about what I'm typing!

My wider thoughts (which inadvertantly half spilled out) were that in Sexton, Madigan, Marshall and Jackson we have 4 outhalves, 3 of whom can play 12 to a high standard but none of whom I'd be rushing into the 13 shirt. Another reason for BOD to stay on

jimbomalley

Tipuric and warburton playing together today and destroying english ball all day long showing the value of a proper openside...they looked unstoppable.

Irish positives?

The end of the kidney era.

The beginning of the Godigan era, this guy will replace J10 as the irish 10 within the next 2-3 years, our most natural footballer since BOD.

Also the blooding of so many young players which will be a big aid to the future management team.

Nothing to do with the 6N but POC playing a full 80 mins this weekend, christ he is missed in the pack even if he is getting on a bit

maddragon

I wonder if Dan Cole still thinks England would win the World Cup tomorrow?

super_furry

It ensures no new contract for Declan Kidney.

WoollyRedHat

Anyone wrote: »

England won nothing despite all their over inflated crap about how good they were.

Which never has happened before by the way!

In all fairness, I don't think they did that this year as much, 2011, now that's a different story. An hilarious one at that.

Not Playing Tiddlywinks Vinny

Paddy Jackson, Luke Marshall and Ian Madigan getting capped. After that......................nothing!!! Loads of injuries, serious kick up the arse for the squad and coaching staff

jimbomalley

slingerz wrote: »

Ireland need to do the basics and the basics are the set pieces. Along with the other aspects of forward play these are instances the Ireland need to focus on.

Fancying back line play can come about once the solid foundations have been laid. Ireland have been trying to run before they can walk

Would have thought passing and offloading are the basics? Kids dont start playing at a young age learning how to scrum or call a line out...
Edit: And by my post I mean we (re) learn to pass and offload out of the tackle. Set pieces can be fine tuned with proper coaching (gert smal has a lot to answer for re the lineout). Not being able to pass or see that a pass is on (spatial awareness anyone?) is criminal.
A lot of our scrum issues come from our flankers popping up early watching for a break. 6 pushing vs 8 is only going to end one way. I can remember clearly one scrum today where archer was doing fine until SOB popped up whereupon steve buckled.

Jedwardian

1. Depth at outhalf. Jonny Sexton, Paddy Jackson and Ian Madigan can all do a capable job, a far cry from when Ireland had Ronan O'Gara and nobody else..
2. New inside centre. Luke Marshall offers a huge amount and injury permitting can be a mainstay of the team.
3. Blooding of new players. Dave Kilcoyne, Stephen Archer, Mike McCarthy, Devin Toner, Iain Henderson, Paul Marshall, Paddy Jackson, Ian Madigan, Luke Marshall, Simon Zebo and Craig Gilroy all got their first taste of the tournament and will be better for it.
4. The Kidney Clock is closer to it's end point.

razorblunt

Kidney out.
Luke Marshall.
Murray regaining international confidence.
Henderson having a good game a decent game today.
Mike McCarthy being an unsung hero.
Paddy Jackson getting his debut campaign out of the way.

CoDy1

We beat the champions:cool:

Quint2010

Really exited about Madigan now. Thought he looked electric today. How lucky are Leinster to have a player of his quality to slot in?

CoDy1

Quint2010 wrote: »

Really exited about Madigan now. Thought he looked electric today. How lucky are Leinster to have a player of his quality to slot in?

Absolutely, whatever about Leinster though;), I think this guy is pure class.

Tigerandahalf

A good few positives in fairness. To be fair Ire played in a lot of wet weather games and those days show up Ire weaknesses.
All the young guys that have been blooded. Henderson needs to start at 4. I would try Madigan at 13. He has great hands and runs great lines. Disappointed that Marmion didnt get gametime. For me Paul Marshall will never be international class, too small and a poor passer. If a new coach does come in hopefully young players will be given their chance.

trouttrout

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

A good few positives in fairness. To be fair Ire played in a lot of wet weather games and those days show up Ire weaknesses.
All the young guys that have been blooded. Henderson needs to start at 4. I would try Madigan at 13. He has great hands and runs great lines. Disappointed that Marmion didnt get gametime. For me Paul Marshall will never be international class, too small and a poor passer. If a new coach does come in hopefully young players will be given their chance.

Jesus, he's probably the best passing nine in Ireland. But anyway..........

People just seem to be posting reactionary nonsense for the sake of it at this stage. Madigan at 13?

.ak

Madigan and Marshall were the highlights for me. Jackson did well all things considered, and he was the right choice (whilst many may debate it) simply because the IRFU were grooming him, and frankly I think it'd be unfair to leap frog him. Madigan impressed though in his few cameos, and I think he'll probably push him for the bench spot next year. Henderson too, the lad still looks about 10 but packs an absolute punch. Imagine him when he'll be a few KG heavier and wiser.

Oh, and Kidney should be gone now.

rrpc

Positives:
Madigan looks well able for international rugby.
Zebo likewise
Gilroy similarly, but needs to get more ball. (that's more a game plan issue though).
Luke Marshall could well be in the frame, but the way we played didn't suit him - too much static ball.
We actually don't need Keith Earls
We actually don't need ROG

Negatives:
Murray still 'getting there', where are the options? Why haven't they been tried?
Jackson may not be good enough.
Bench props need work, in fact bench is 6/8 negative impact.
Second row is a problem
Back row is too light. POM is barely adequate
We don't have a replacement for BOD

New coach has a lot of work on his hands. It will be painful.

trouttrout

rrpc wrote: »

Positives:
Madigan looks well able for international rugby.
Zebo likewise
Gilroy similarly, but needs to get more ball. (that's more a game plan issue though).
Luke Marshall could well be in the frame, but the way we played didn't suit him - too much static ball.
We actually don't need Keith Earls
We actually don't need ROG

Negatives:
Murray still 'getting there', where are the options? Why haven't they been tried?
Jackson may not be good enough.
Bench props need work, in fact bench is 6/8 negative impact.
Second row is a problem
Back row is too light. POM is barely adequate
We don't have a replacement for BOD

New coach has a lot of work on his hands. It will be painful.

First off, what has prompted you to say we don't need Earls? He had a good championship and was a serious loss coming off yesterday

Jackson may not be good enough? Based on what? Because it couldn't be based on his appearances over the championship. He was very good even though he was playing kidney ball

POM is barely adequate?! He was one of the highlights of the championship, really stepped up and had a two cracking games. Looking like a few more tweeks to his game and he'll be top class. Also how is the backrow too light? too light to do what exactly?

.ak

TBH I thought aside from a few line breaks Earls was quite poor all throughout the championship. Thing is I rate Earls very highly as a back three player, and I still think he'll have a huge career in an Irish jersey, but I found him very ineffectual throughout the entire championship. Simple issues like passing, knocking on, not contesting for ball correctly, it was more an issue with execution than anything else, and probably an issue with him being drafted around different positions.

.ak

My biggest regret of the championship was not seeing Fitzy play. I thought he'd have a decent game against the Italians, and even looked good when on the pitch, he was everywhere. Perhaps a little over eager, and that's what led him to the injury. Unluckiest guy in an Irish jersey (maybe Fez and Wally included in that).

slingerz

jimbomalley wrote: »

Would have thought passing and offloading are the basics? Kids dont start playing at a young age learning how to scrum or call a line out...
Edit: And by my post I mean we (re) learn to pass and offload out of the tackle. Set pieces can be fine tuned with proper coaching (gert smal has a lot to answer for re the lineout). Not being able to pass or see that a pass is on (spatial awareness anyone?) is criminal.
A lot of our scrum issues come from our flankers popping up early watching for a break. 6 pushing vs 8 is only going to end one way. I can remember clearly one scrum today where archer was doing fine until SOB popped up whereupon steve buckled.

Kids are fine but adults need to control the set pieces. Establish a dominating platform in line out and scrums and you control the game

mfceiling

For me it has to have been Laura wright singing the national anthem wearing that white dress!!

After that it has to have been Jim Hamilton...what a spoiler he has been. Disrupted line outs, clearing rucks, big tackles...the man has been immense. One slow motion replay last night showed him stealing another line out ball...he just seemed to get higher and higher for an age before a huge hand pushed the ball back on the Scotland side.

ireland01

am i the only one who thought sean o brien was outstanding?? with the exception of the wales game he was our man of the match imo. hes also a cert on my lions team!

.ak

Yeah no SOB was the best Irish player by far. But he has been consistently good for us since he accidentally broke onto the side with now help from Kidney. It's almost a non-subject. We have to appraise the other 22 players because he's so consistent.

rrpc

trouttrout wrote: »

First off, what has prompted you to say we don't need Earls? He had a good championship and was a serious loss coming off yesterday

Earls has always been a blinkered player. Granted that's a winger's weakness, but although he made breaks, he didn't have the awareness to look for the offload and invariably when he does it goes past the intended player or into touch.

Jackson may not be good enough? Based on what? Because it couldn't be based on his appearances over the championship. He was very good even though he was playing kidney ball

Perhaps it was Kidney's 'game plan' but he just doesn't seem to get involved as much as you'd expect from a ten. He stood deep a lot and left a lot of ball to the forwards, didn't run with the ball himself and missed a couple of tackles. Madigan made much more of an impression when he came on and should be given a shot at it to see what he can add. We seem to be damning Jackson with faint praise: "he didn't do anything wrong' seems to be the geneal impression.

POM is barely adequate?! He was one of the highlights of the championship, really stepped up and had a two cracking games. Looking like a few more tweeks to his game and he'll be top class. Also how is the backrow too light? too light to do what exactly?

O'Mahony improved in the last two games from a very low base. 13 tackles in three games is a very poor stat from a backrow. Mostly I'm comparing him with the man he replaced; Ferris and that's a comparison you can't avoid. If Ferris is not going to get away from his injuries, Henderson may well be the guy to step up to the mark. In a very short time he's shown up very well.

irishbucsfan

O'Mahoney was excellent against Wales.

trouttrout

irishbucsfan wrote: »

O'Mahoney was excellent against Wales.

And the French game. Very good against England I thought too and had was unlucky two very marginal penalty calls went against him yesterday

People use the 2 tackle stat from the Welsh game conveniently ignore the fact that we dominated possession for the first half (Wales literally barely had the ball) and POM went off early in the second. You can only tackle what's in front of you.

POM needs to be a bit more busy around the park in defense, but not in his tackling duties, he can afford to make more of a nuisance of himself at ruck time (see Rob Harley vs Ireland)

It's gas how ridiculously vague the needless critique of POM is though

Tigerandahalf

Jackson is fine but he is never going to threaten the gainline. He is typical of the type of outhalf we like to bring through, that can control a game, i.e. kick the corners. It is a bygone era. The Aussies try to bring through 10s who can attack the gainline. Even Sexton doesnt attack the gainline, instead doing loops. Madigan offers something that no other player can offer. He needs to be in the team. They should try combinations. Amazing that Leinster didnt try Madigan at 10 and Sexton at 12. What about Madigan as a future 13? He can tackle, pass and has pace.

Joe Hart

A funny six nations. If we were ten percent better we probably would have had a grand slam. The form we showed for most of the last decade would have been enough for a grand slam. I'm positive enough as the real problems are very fixable, namely coaching.

trouttrout

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Jackson is fine but he is never going to threaten the gainline. He is typical of the type of outhalf we like to bring through, that can control a game, i.e. kick the corners. It is a bygone era. The Aussies try to bring through 10s who can attack the gainline. Even Sexton doesnt attack the gainline, instead doing loops. Madigan offers something that no other player can offer. He needs to be in the team. They should try combinations. Amazing that Leinster didnt try Madigan at 10 and Sexton at 12. What about Madigan as a future 13? He can tackle, pass and has pace.

I've highlighted everything that is just plain wrong in that post

Sexton attacks the gainline very well, as does Jackson. Have you ever seen them play for their provinces?

rrpc

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Jackson is fine but he is never going to threaten the gainline. He is typical of the type of outhalf we like to bring through, that can control a game, i.e. kick the corners. It is a bygone era. The Aussies try to bring through 10s who can attack the gainline. Even Sexton doesnt attack the gainline, instead doing loops. Madigan offers something that no other player can offer. He needs to be in the team. They should try combinations. Amazing that Leinster didnt try Madigan at 10 and Sexton at 12. What about Madigan as a future 13? He can tackle, pass and has pace.

The Sexton loop is only one aspect of his game, he attacks the gainline regularly and makes tight passes or half breaks of his own. I really don't see him as a 12 in the same way I can see Madigan play there. But yes, Madigan should get a look in at 10 and I think we lost something this 6N by not takiing the chance to start him instead of Jackson in the Wolfhounds game or at least give him a half there instead of the shambles that was concocted with three 10s on the pitch at the same time.

If that had been an open competition for the place, it may well have been a different outcome when Sexton was injured.

Joe Hart

Madigan has superb feet. He did Parisse so badly that he resorted to tripping him. Those ten minutes with him off should have been enough to win the game. It will be interesting to see where a new manager will place him in the squad.

Tigerandahalf

If Madigan is at 10 you would definitely need a good kicker at 12.
I do think a place has to be found for him in the team. Sexton leaving Leinster could be a blessing.

trouttrout

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

If Madigan is at 10 you would definitely need a good kicker at 12.
I do think a place has to be found for him in the team. Sexton leaving Leinster could be a blessing.

oh god. madigan has brilliant kicking stats this year

And why would the kicker have to be at 12!?

.ak

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

If Madigan is at 10 you would definitely need a good kicker at 12.
I do think a place has to be found for him in the team. Sexton leaving Leinster could be a blessing.

You mean goal kicker? Why? Madigan is a fine kicker. Although I totally subscribe to the idea you should have atleast two practicing goal kickers on the pitch at all times. Ala Wales. It's completely idiotic and backwards thinking otherwise.

Tigerandahalf

To kick from hand, it is the weak part of Madigan's game.