Cheltenham 2014 ante post

Morleystreet

Always like having a quick look at the ante post prices for next years festival!!! Will normally do 1 bet, more for d laugh. cue card at 6s for the Ryanair seems interesting, but will they run him there again or might they be tempted to try a different race. Can't see them going for CC if SS stays well. They'd hardly try GC.?

Anyone have any horses whose prices they like at this very very early stage.

jimjamcos

Morleystreet wrote: »

Always like having a quick look at the ante post prices for next years festival!!! Will normally do 1 bet, more for d laugh. cue card at 6s for the Ryanair seems interesting, but will they run him there again or might they be tempted to try a different race. Can't see them going for CC if SS stays well. They'd hardly try GC.?

Anyone have any horses whose prices they like at this very very early stage.

I think they'll definitely aim him at the King George again anyway and hope for better ground. If he goes well in that then the GC becomes a possibility although you'd have to think he's much too exuberant to stay GC trip.

The horse I like for next years Gold Cup, at a price, is Boston Bob. He was heralded as a potential superstar last year but that seemed to be hype looking at him this year and Ruby jumping off him for Unioniste in RSA. However, Boston Bob travelled nicely and was going to win the RSA IMO. We've seen with Bobs Worth that you need a non-flashy type who jumps efficiently and stays all day. Boston Bob is the novice who fits this criteria best IMO and I don't think it'll take much improvement to see him fighting for a place in next years GC.

Colonel Sanders

jimjamcos wrote: »

The horse I like for next years Gold Cup, at a price.

This was actually my first thought after the race. Not for a second saying he's achieved anywhere near as much as those to the head of the market but he's the only novice I could conceivably see getting involved

One worry is he's already a very big price on Betfair so I'm wondering is all ok after the fall

Johner

Any price for Grandouet for the Arkle floating around?

Colonel Sanders

Johner wrote: »

Any price for Grandouet for the Arkle floating around?

I've only seen Champagne Fever quoted.

It's usually the autumn before a proper ante post market forms but if you e-mail a few bookies they might offer you a price

jimjamcos

What do people think will be the aims for Un Atout and Pont Alexandre next year?

Un Atout to go Jewson route and Pont Alexandre to go RSA surely?

Rule The World will also be very interesting over fences. Where do we see him going?

dave3004

if you had 20 on our conor for champion hurdle at 25/1 would you keep it or lay it off or wait?

jimjamcos

dave3004 wrote: »

if you had 20 on our conor for champion hurdle at 25/1 would you keep it or lay it off or wait?

Only doubt I'd have about next years Champion Hurdle is that Cooper seems unsure as to how he'll be on good ground (no guarantee we know). Said after The Triumph that he was delighted to see the rain come. I'd let your bet run though as can't see his price being affected too much by his runs in Ireland between now and next years festival. If he runs against Hurricane Fly, runs well and loses his price will still hold up and if he happens to beat The Fly you're laughing.

mdwexford

I think My Tent Or Yours will be a serious horse next year.
Big Bucks at 4/1 is tempting.

MoscowFlyer

At Fishers Cross for the World Hurdle is something I might be tempted by. He's around the 5/1 mark.

Who knows how Big Bucks will come back and according to the Stewart family they aren't even gonna give him a run before hand which does seem strange to me.

mdwexford

MoscowFlyer wrote: »

At Fishers Cross for the World Hurdle is something I might be tempted by. He's around the 5/1 mark.

8s with William Hill if you are.

jimjamcos

MoscowFlyer wrote: »

At Fishers Cross for the World Hurdle is something I might be tempted by. He's around the 5/1 mark.

Who knows how Big Bucks will come back and according to the Stewart family they aren't even gonna give him a run before hand which does seem strange to me.

I'd be very worried about backing him antepost for any race. He's done all his winning on bad ground and even connections don't seem fully convinced that he'll be as good on better ground. They were delighted to see the rain yesterday.

As has been said, 4/1 for Big Bucks is a much better bet IMO. You're basically betting on him turning up. He'll only turn up if he's spot on and if he is he'll win. There's still nobody better than Nicholls at getting the best out of aging horses.

sting60

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

I've only seen Champagne Fever quoted.

It's usually the autumn before a proper ante post market forms but if you e-mail a few bookies they might offer you a price

Champagne Fever will not win an Arkle.He is more a Ryanair type even at this early stage.Nobody is serious in having a bet yet.

kiers47

Anyone know what the deal is with Al Ferof? He is the one I like for the GC tbh but can't see him quoted with anyone.
Is The New One gonna stay over hurdles? Next years champion could be serious.

jimjamcos

kiers47 wrote: »

Anyone know what the deal is with Al Ferof? He is the one I like for the GC tbh but can't see him quoted with anyone.
Is The New One gonna stay over hurdles? Next years champion could be serious.

Think I seen Nicholls interviewed and saying both Al Ferof and Big Bucks were well on the road to recovery and have been on the walker recently. Think The New One's going to be aimed at Champion Hurdle alright.

Johner

Victor chandler are non runner free bet for next year. Max refund €50. Definitely worth sticking €50 on big bucks!

RichieLawlor

sting60 wrote: »

Champagne Fever will not win an Arkle.He is more a Ryanair type even at this early stage.Nobody is serious in having a bet yet.

Champagne Fever is a proper 2 mile horse imo, and a proper Arkle horse, in the same vain as Al Ferof, Tidal Bay, Simonsig, My Way De Solzen and Captain Chris.

Ruby said himself after the Supreme he considered him a 2 miler at the moment but like the others I mention would have no problem with further.

A worthy arkle favourite as it stands

carpothepunk

BetVictor are NRNB already for 2014! Had a few this morning. At Fishers Cross looks a world hurdle winner in waiting. Think we may have seen the last of Big Bucks myself.

Arctic89

Did Rebecca Curtis not say he was going chasing next year? Looked an RSA horse to me.

mdwexford

sting60 wrote: »

Champagne Fever will not win an Arkle.He is more a Ryanair type even at this early stage.Nobody is serious in having a bet yet.

A lot of people were saying that about the Supreme before Tuesday as well.

SRFC

Dont think Big Bucks will be back,4/1 now is a gift from the betting gods but they know he wont be coming back imo

hucklebuck

Fair play to VC Bet, it's a smart move too. They get to hold your cash for a year, earn interest off it and may get to keep it.

I just backed Cue Card at 25/1 for the Gold Cup.

Be aware they are 1/5 odds for a place.

For the National they are paying 1st four.

jimjamcos

hucklebuck wrote: »

Fair play to VC Bet, it's a smart move too. They get to hold your cash for a year, earn interest off it and may get to keep it.

I just backed Cue Card at 25/1 for the Gold Cup.

Be aware they are 1/5 odds for a place.

For the National they are paying 1st four.

Cue Card's a great bet at that price. He'll only run in GC if he's shown that he has a chance of staying the trip and if he turns up on the day he'll be less than half the price.

droidman123

hucklebuck wrote: »

Fair play to VC Bet, it's a smart move too. They get to hold your cash for a year, earn interest off it and may get to keep it.


Be aware they are 1/5 odds for a place.

For the National they are paying 1st four.

Is that cue card bet nrnb?

hucklebuck

droidman123 wrote: »

Is that cue card bet nrnb?

NR free bet.

kiers47

Just looking at stan James gold cup betting. They have SS priced up at 8/1??? Robbing Clowns! They might as well stick hurricane fly in there as well. Or even our Conor.

Johner

A few that caught my eye.

Grandouet 12/1 for the Arkle next year.

Quevega 6/4 for the Mares hurdle.

Pont Alexandre 12/1 for the Jewson/RSA.

Backstreet Moyes

Johner wrote: »

A few that caught my eye.

Grandouet 12/1 for the Arkle next year.

Quevega 6/4 for the Mares hurdle.

Pont Alexandre 12/1 for the Jewson/RSA.

Is Grandouet supposed to be going chasing? He has fell enough times for me to be backing him over fences.

Backstreet Moyes

Supreme Novices Golantilla 12/1

UrbanSea

kiers47 wrote: »

Just looking at stan James gold cup betting. They have SS priced up at 8/1??? Robbing Clowns! They might as well stick hurricane fly in there as well. Or even our Conor.

At least he has a chance of lining up in theory.


William Hill have Fame and Glory priced up ante post for the Ascot Gold Cup. This despite he's standing at Grange

Johner

Nuts102 wrote: »

Is Grandouet supposed to be going chasing? He has fell enough times for me to be backing him over fences.

They said they will see after Punchestown. And Grandouet isn't a bad jumper he has just stepped at a couple of hurdles in his career. He'd have more respect for his fences.

Huntley

Everything about Grandouet screams chaser, he has so much scope. He dwarfed the Champion Hurdle field.

His two falls to date have lucked clumsy, the horse definitely lacks focus. I'd have no qualms about him jumping a fence although a noseband would probably do wonders.

I've been waiting a year for Trifolium and Rebel Fitz to jump a fence.

Sprinter Sacre isn't a Gold Cup horse but he could win a King George. Thought Simonsig could give him a race but not anymore, he would be losing lengths in the air and simply isn't as good. Or will be.

Silviniaco Conti will be a massive player in the King George but isn't a Gold Cup horse.

My Tent or Yours will mature into a serious horse. Loads of scope about him for chasing however, he is a monster. Not sure how much improvement is in the Triumph winner.

First Lieutenant would be best served going the stayers hurdle route. Pretty much well held over fences at grade 1 level.

Juwwi

Johner wrote: »

A few that caught my eye.

Grandouet 12/1 for the Arkle next year.

Quevega 6/4 for the Mares hurdle.

Pont Alexandre 12/1 for the Jewson/RSA.

I heard Mullins or Ruby say Quevega will be retired after punchestown.
Think it was Mullins.

droidman123

Huntley wrote: »

Everything about Grandouet screams chaser, he has so much scope. He dwarfed the Champion Hurdle field.

His two falls to date have lucked clumsy, the horse definitely lacks focus. I'd have no qualms about him jumping a fence although a noseband would probably do wonders.

I've been waiting a year for Trifolium and Rebel Fitz to jump a fence.

Sprinter Sacre isn't a Gold Cup horse but he could win a King George. Thought Simonsig could give him a race but not anymore, he would be losing lengths in the air and simply isn't as good. Or will be.

Silviniaco Conti will be a massive player in the King George but isn't a Gold Cup horse.

My Tent or Yours will mature into a serious horse. Loads of scope about him for chasing however, he is a monster. Not sure how much improvement is in the Triumph winner.

First Lieutenant would be best served going the stayers hurdle route. Pretty much well held over fences at grade 1 level.

I think silviniaco conti is most definitely a gold cup horse.he was barely off the bridle when he fell ( yes I know jumping is the name of the game) I have no doubts that he would of stayed,going by the manner of his 3 previous wins.I am convinced he will be back in the gold cup next year and will have a big say at the business end of the race.

Huntley

droidman123 wrote: »

I think silviniaco conti is most definitely a gold cup horse.he was barely off the bridle when he fell ( yes I know jumping is the name of the game) I have no doubts that he would of stayed,going by the manner of his 3 previous wins.I am convinced he will be back in the gold cup next year and will have a big say at the business end of the race.

How he was travelling before he fell has no bearing on my judgement of him not being a Gold Cup horse. I felt the same prior to the race, and even mentioned to someone here the night before that he would probably look like the winner turning for home but would eventually wilt.

droidman123

Huntley wrote: »

How he was travelling before he fell has no bearing on my judgement of him not being a Gold Cup horse. I felt the same prior to the race, and even mentioned to someone here the night before that he would probably look like the winner turning for home but would eventually wilt.

but that is my point, he didnt "wilt" it definitely wasnt because of tiredness that he fell. obviously we will never know, if he would of played a big part in the finish, but i am basing my judgment on what i have seen from the horse this season.

Huntley

droidman123 wrote: »

but that is my point, he didnt "wilt" it definitely wasnt because of tiredness that he fell. obviously we will never know, if he would of played a big part in the finish, but i am basing my judgment on what i have seen from the horse this season.

I am aware he didn't wilt. I never expected him to struggle three furlongs from the post. As I said, I expected him still to be looking strong turning for home. He never got far enough for his frailties to be exposed like I suspected.

The question mark over Silviniaco Conti going into the race was his stamina (somewhat his ability to handle the track aswell although that fell under stamina for me). He is a really good jumper with a high cruising speed. It is rare that you see a horse possess those abilities aswell as a bottomless tank, which is what he would have needed considering how the race panned out. Any horses that do are complete racehorses, or superstars so to speak.

I’m not sure I can agree that Silviniaco Conti’s performances this season should mean that he would have no problem staying. If you judged Zarkandar on his performances you could say he had the speed/attributes to be a Champion Hurdler, as you and others felt. Ultimately he didn’t because he encountered a race that was unique from any other he faced all season. The same way that the Gold Cup provided an entirely different prospect for Silviniaco Conti to what he had run in to date.

You obviously disagree but I don’t write off horses without good reason. There are races to be won with him for sure, but not Gold Cups.

jimjamcos

There's no way Silviniaco Conti would of improved enough on his Betfair Chase showing against Long Run to trouble Bobs Worth. He'd have been fighting for a place at best and even that's guesswork as we still don't know how he sees the hill out. Bobs Worth is way ahead of the rest and a great bet for next years Gold Cup.

droidman123

jimjamcos wrote: »

There's no way Silviniaco Conti would of improved enough on his Betfair Chase showing against Long Run to trouble Bobs Worth. He'd have been fighting for a place at best and even that's guesswork as we still don't know how he sees the hill out. Bobs Worth is way ahead of the rest and a great bet for next years Gold Cup.

i wouldnt disagree that b.w is a great bet for next years gold cup. but all i am saying is i think s.c. would of been involved in the business end if he stayed up. hehas a bigger engine than people realise, going by what i seen of him this season. whether he would of got up the hill i know is speculation, but i firmly believe he would, he looks like a good stayer to me, but as you rightfully say, we will never know. hopefully next year, he will stay up and we will have a mighty finish to the race.

droidman123

Huntley wrote: »

I am aware he didn't wilt. I never expected him to struggle three furlongs from the post. As I said, I expected him still to be looking strong turning for home. He never got far enough for his frailties to be exposed like I suspected.

The question mark over Silviniaco Conti going into the race was his stamina (somewhat his ability to handle the track aswell although that fell under stamina for me). He is a really good jumper with a high cruising speed. It is rare that you see a horse possess those abilities aswell as a bottomless tank, which is what he would have needed considering how the race panned out. Any horses that do are complete racehorses, or superstars so to speak.

I’m not sure I can agree that Silviniaco Conti’s performances this season should mean that he would have no problem staying. If you judged Zarkandar on his performances you could say he had the speed/attributes to be a Champion Hurdler, as you and others felt. Ultimately he didn’t because he encountered a race that was unique from any other he faced all season. The same way that the Gold Cup provided an entirely different prospect for Silviniaco Conti to what he had run in to date.

You obviously disagree but I don’t write off horses without good reason. There are races to be won with him for sure, but not Gold Cups.

yes i hold my hands up, i stuck my neck out and really fancied zarkander for the c.h. i know exactly what you mean about the champion races being different from anything else the horses have run in. i think if i am being honest, i let my heart rule my head because i won quite a few bob off him in the triumph a few years back.

longshotvalue

Huntley wrote: »

Everything about Grandouet screams chaser, he has so much scope. He dwarfed the Champion Hurdle field.

His two falls to date have lucked clumsy, the horse definitely lacks focus. I'd have no qualms about him jumping a fence although a noseband would probably do wonders.

I've been waiting a year for Trifolium and Rebel Fitz to jump a fence.

Sprinter Sacre isn't a Gold Cup horse but he could win a King George. Thought Simonsig could give him a race but not anymore, he would be losing lengths in the air and simply isn't as good. Or will be.

Silviniaco Conti will be a massive player in the King George but isn't a Gold Cup horse.

My Tent or Yours will mature into a serious horse. Loads of scope about him for chasing however, he is a monster. Not sure how much improvement is in the Triumph winner.

First Lieutenant would be best served going the stayers hurdle route. Pretty much well held over fences at grade 1 level.

HE in the top 5 staying chasers at 3 miles (and really there is 1 on top and everything else is close enough) and the top 2 at 2m5, why would he ever go back hurdling. He might be interesting in the King George

liamoreilly

..Just to avoid any after timing :-)...heres my bet for next year...

Horse Racing
CHELTENHAM
Champion Hurdle 2014
11th of Mar 2014 3:20 pm
Win or E/W
Our Conor @ 5/1
Pending

Champion Chase 2014
12th of Mar 2014 3:20 pm
Win or E/W
Sprinter Sacre @ 4/6
Pending

World Hurdle 2014
13th of Mar 2014 3:20 pm
Win or E/W
Big Bucks @ 7/2
Pending

Cheltenham Gold Cup 2014
14th of Mar 2014 3:20 pm
Win or E/W
Bobs Worth @ 3/1
Pending

Stake and Return Details
Bet placed at
16th of Mar 2013 01:15 am
Total Stake
€10.00
Bet type
Accumulator (4) (To Win)
Total stake due
€10.00
Potential Returns
€1,800.00

sting60

With regards to Cue Card ,he does not stay 3 miles and should be 25/1 to be entered for the 2014 Gold Cup.Its obvious some people here thinks he will stay 3.2m so good luck to them.In my opinion he has zero chance of winning the Gold Cup as he wont be entered by Colin Tizzard as he is well aware the horse doesnt stay 3m.

Slattsy

sting60 wrote: »

With regards to Cue Card ,he does not stay 3 miles and should be 25/1 to be entered for the 2014 Gold Cup.Its obvious some people here thinks he will stay 3.2m so good luck to them.In my opinion he has zero chance of winning the Gold Cup as he wont be entered by Colin Tizzard as he is well aware the horse doesnt stay 3m.

The funny thing is, Tizzard did say he'll go for the King George next year !!!

He said his horses werent right over the Christmas period and he wasnt stopping in the Ryanair..... so he'll try 3 miles again with the KG being the aim. He's deluded.

droidman123

sting60 wrote: »

With regards to Cue Card ,he does not stay 3 miles and should be 25/1 to be entered for the 2014 Gold Cup.Its obvious some people here thinks he will stay 3.2m so good luck to them.In my opinion he has zero chance of winning the Gold Cup as he wont be entered by Colin Tizzard as he is well aware the horse doesnt stay 3m.

The thing about it is no one really knows if cue card stays 3 miles or not.we cant judge his run in the king george because early in the race he made 2 bad blunders that put paid to his race.going by his run in the ryanair he looked he would stay 3 miles or further, and he is bred to stay 3 miles plus.only time will tell.i am certainly not saying he is good enough to win a gold cup.

sting60

Cue Card did not stay the King George trip.He does not stay 3m in very top company and never will.If anybody has the information from C.Tizzard stating he stays 3m please post it here.Why in the name of god would Tizzard run Cue Card in the 2014 Gold Cup and hope to finish a well beaten 4th/5th where he can mop up top championship races over his preferred distance,the mind boggles.

RichieLawlor

sting60 wrote: »

Cue Card did not stay the King George trip.He does not stay 3m in very top company and never will.If anybody has the information from C.Tizzard stating he stays 3m please post it here.Why in the name of god would Tizzard run Cue Card in the 2014 Gold Cup and hope to finish a well beaten 4th/5th where he can mop up top championship races over his preferred distance,the mind boggles.

Cue Card charged up the cheltenham hill at the end of a fast run 2m5f race, 3 miles at Kempton shouldn't be a problem, he was too bad last year to be true.

Tom Segal likes him for the Gold Cup next year

ste2010

His race against bobs worth over fences 20f last year is enough evidence for me to scratch his name from 3m races and beyond. Taking all things into account re progression etc. I just don't think he'll have enough fuel in the tank.

1 I think should go back over 3m is beneficent. I think you will see the best of him over 3m on a sound surface. The 3m novice chase in aintree would be a good place to start.

sting60

Its a matter of opinion and my opinion is he will NEVER win a Gold Cup.The idea of putting him on flat tracks like Kempton/Aintree to see if he stays 3m is madness.What plan has Mullins/Henderson/Mouse/Nicholls and maybe even Casey got for these races.

droidman123

sting60 wrote: »

Its a matter of opinion and my opinion is he will NEVER win a Gold Cup.The idea of putting him on flat tracks like Kempton/Aintree to see if he stays 3m is madness.What plan has Mullins/Henderson/Mouse/Nicholls and maybe even Casey got for these races.

How could you know he didnt stay the 3 miles in the king george??.as i said he made 2 early jumping blunders that knocked the stuffing out of him.so in really we havnt seen him in a trouble free 3 mile chase, so as of yet it is guess work wheather he stays or not.

sting60

droidman123 wrote: »

How could you know he didnt stay the 3 miles in the king george??.as i said he made 2 early jumping blunders that knocked the stuffing out of him.so in really we havnt seen him in a trouble free 3 mile chase, so as of yet it is guess work wheather he stays or not.

Two early jumping blunders??I take it was the first where he jumped left and the second where he left his back legs in the fence [minor errors].Cue card in the whole jumped well and in fact it was Long Run who made the mistakes.Cue Card was on the bridle the whole way around only with three to go could he not stay with the leaders.This was one of the worst King Georges in years with a 162 rated just get beaten.With the array of talent itching to have a go next 26th Dec Cue Card will not be in the line up.