Luke Ming Flanagan's Credibility

Going Forward

Time for Mr. Flanagan to do this country's credibility a favour and resign.

Had this story broken in the UK regarding an MP, he would by now have done the honourable thing.

What sort of international image do we have if this kind of thing is reported in detail, along with his other anti-legal interests?

We have become immune to crass behaviour from those elected to high office, from Mr. Kenny's studious avoidance of any issues regarding Lowry and Denis O Brien to the humble ex vineyard owner Mick Wallace and the whiskey gargling Claire Daly.

Ming has certainly "arrived", now being one of the "elite", the same sort he railed against for receiving the special treatment he now receives.
Some neck.

drunkmonkey

He's got 1 mission and that's to legalise Marajuana, I'm hoping to fcuk AGSC trump him and push for legalisation before he gets the credit for something that was going to happen anyway.

Come on Shatter don't let gob****es like Ming get credited with the greatest gift the Irish state has given to the Irish people.

Lelantos

Ming for president! At least he'll have a chauffeur then in his state sponsored pimped out ganga puffing limo

joe swanson

he never had any. and if the (gullible) people of roscommon still want to vote for him, more fool them.

NAP123

Unfortunately, Ming has succumbed to the favouritism on offer to our elected and non elected political elite.

This country has been hijacked by a small but extremely powerful minority.

As an aside, the Chris Heune and wife case, allied to the Ming case, about penalty points for speeding and using a mobile phone are very insignificant when you consider the real crimes committed by politicians.

Chris Heune gets jail and Tony Blair gets rich.

Ming gets accused of being corrupt and Bertie Ahearne, Eugene Sheehy, Patrick Neary, Brian Cowen, Brian Goggins, Sean Hurley get pensions.

BornToKill

Luke Ming Flanagan's credibility - was sold pretty cheaply.

What he thought he was doing going on TV I have no idea. "They approached me" does not make everything okay.

NIMAN

Unfortunately Ming has a load of supporters who can see him doing no wrong, and for that reason he is seen as a great example of a politician we should aspire to.

You only have to read the stuff on the other thread on here to see how many think he is 100% right in this situation.

I do despair.

Sponge Bob

Where is the "Economy" angle to all of this????

BornToKill

Foregone income from Fixed Penalty Notices?

NAP123

He tried to avoid penalty points. Hardly crime of the century. Then he lied. Our Taoiseach is the biggest liar since the last one and nobody has even suggested that the spoofer should apologise to the Dail.

Farmer Pudsey

The way I look at a lot of issue like this is as the lord said

''let he who is without sin cast the first stone''

First off would any of us done different. I be more worried about what he said and if it was true that a guard approched him about squashing them. If it is true it is a sorry reflection on things. If it is a lie then Ming should be taken to task over it

listermint

NAP123 wrote: »

He tried to avoid penalty points. Hardly crime of the century. Then he lied. Our Taoiseach is the biggest liar since the last one and nobody has even suggested that the spoofer should apologise to the Dail.

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

The way I look at a lot of issue like this is as the lord said

''let he who is without sin cast the first stone''

First off would any of us done different. I be more worried about what he said and if it was true that a guard approched him about squashing them. If it is true it is a sorry reflection on things. If it is a lie then Ming should be taken to task over it

Just because one person does it doesnt mean its okay for all.

Our elected politicians shouldnt be allowed to lie. They should ALL be held to task.

Its about time we started pressing for such things to be taken more seriously. We are all being taken for a ride.

creedp

listermint wrote: »

Our elected politicians shouldnt be allowed to lie. They should ALL be held to task.

Its about time we started pressing for such things to be taken more seriously. We are all being taken for a ride.

While I fully agree with this perspective, I had to laugh at someone on Vinnie B's 'twitter machine' last night criticising Ming for accepting the offer to remove the penalty points because he himself was offerred the same service but refused as he did the crime so he deserved the penalty!! Fair play to him!! How many people wold turn up at the Garda Stn with hands up - I did 101kmph in a 100kmph zone. C'mon!

antoobrien

joe swanson wrote: »

he never had any. and if the (gullible) people of roscommon still want to vote for him, more fool them.

They'll vote for him as long as he fights against the turf cutting ban.

DeanAustin

He should resign. It may be relatively small, a lot of your average people might have done the same but he's abused his position and that should never be tolerated in politics.

I'm fed up listening to people talking about how corrupt politics is and then excusing this sort of behaviour.

I'd be glad to see the back of him. He's an embarrassment to the country. I know it's a side issue but if I turned up for work dressed like him, I'd expect to get a boot in the hole.

Padraig Mor

NAP123 wrote: »

He tried to avoid penalty points. Hardly crime of the century. Then he lied. Our Taoiseach is the biggest liar since the last one and nobody has even suggested that the spoofer should apologise to the Dail.

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

The way I look at a lot of issue like this is as the lord said

''let he who is without sin cast the first stone''

First off would any of us done different. I be more worried about what he said and if it was true that a guard approched him about squashing them. If it is true it is a sorry reflection on things. If it is a lie then Ming should be taken to task over it

The issue isn't so much as betting his points quashed corruptly (although it should be) - it's his utter, barefaced, rank hypocrisy in previously leading the criticism of others who had done the same.

Going Forward

Padraig Mor wrote: »

- it's his utter, barefaced, rank hypocrisy in previously leading the criticism of others who had done the same.

That, in a nutshell, sums him, his attitude, and his actions up.

I must admit I used to harbour some admiration for him and his maverick style but have outgrown his immature and petulant behaviour, in the same way as I have his fellow indepenents.

whatstherush

Things getting a lot more sticky for Ming, the Roscommon county manager has come out and denied Mings version of events

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0313/376402-flanagan-roscommon-council/

Sponge Bob

Wouldn't worry about the county manager somehow.

Mings problem is that he gave out about corrupt garda practices and availed of same himself, so did Claire daly( thats give out about not avail of in Claires case ) and her arrest shortly afterwards for a U turn and bagging was leaked to the media obviously by a pettily corrupt Garda. There was no problem with the arrest and she did not claim some right not to obey the law either. But somebody leaked the story.

The government should announce they will remove this law on obstructing a TD on the way to the Dáil which was brought in because most of the original Dáil were jailbirds who were interfered with in their performance of their mandate...often by each other....oh and because of Mr Jinx( see below)

At least PJ Sheehan TD (FG Cork SW) was clear on what his "Rights" were, what!!

Party leader Enda Kenny passed by shortly afterwards and advised the officers to ignore Mr Sheehan’s threats.

and as the Sergeant in charge said.

(PJ) was highly offended that a garda should interfere with him in this manner.

Not forgetting that an FGer allegedly got one John Jinks, TD, pissed so he would miss a key Dáil vote once either.

But I STILL fail to see the "economy" angle here unless Ming and the raised bogs are somehow of systemic importance.

monkeypants

What would a county manager be able to do regarding penalty points? It's between the Gardai, RSA and the courts.

Rightwing

What a messed up country. :mad:

jessei

maybe ming should stop smoking the weed for a while 'till he gets his head sorted.
that's me not voting for 'independants' anymore. Mick, himself and Claire? yep! 'plus ca change'/ same old same old.
At least the legit ones can be seen doing some work..

Poor independants, bet they didn't want to turn out like the others.

Going Forward

Didnt Ming refer to some local big shot on VB one night on this issue......cant rememb.
Dont recall the full context.

Profiler

If Michael Lowry can be elected repeatedly to Dáil Éireann then Luke Ming Flanagan can expect precious few problems with reelection.

jessei

Then the fault then will be with US the voters..... we will NOT have changed... So! Last elections the people wanted change, he was cool and a little different he got in... Fair enough! But! J sus, now we know what he's like, he's no different, a wink and a nod. He is cut from the same cloth, a charismatic figure in a local area.
Go Ireland Go!
Will you have a pint there!
Sure it ill be grand... i know yer man..

NAP123

DeanAustin wrote: »

He should resign. It may be relatively small, a lot of your average people might have done the same but he's abused his position and that should never be tolerated in politics.

I'm fed up listening to people talking about how corrupt politics is and then excusing this sort of behaviour.

I'd be glad to see the back of him. He's an embarrassment to the country. I know it's a side issue but if I turned up for work dressed like him, I'd expect to get a boot in the hole.

I bet you would not.

In fact I am willing to bet that you would sue an employer that gave you a boot in the hole.

What sort of a job do you have, that would prefer your sense of dress to your intelligence and capabilitities?

P_1

Ming is an interesting case and the reaction to him tends to sum up Ireland's deeply conservative society in a nutshell.

He looks different, he does things not considered to be the 'normal thing' and he is outspoken.

Quite natural for a conservative society to want to 'get rid of him' I would have thought.

Zimmerframe

P_1 wrote: »

Ming is an interesting case and the reaction to him tends to sum up Ireland's deeply conservative society in a nutshell.

He looks different, he does things not considered to be the 'normal thing' and he is outspoken.

Quite natural for a conservative society to want to 'get rid of him' I would have thought.

No, he was a slightly interesting case and being different was all he had going for him. As it turns out from todays events, he's not different, he's the same.
He lied, was corrupt and to top it off was a hypocrite.

NAP123

Padraig Mor wrote: »

The issue isn't so much as betting his points quashed corruptly (although it should be) - it's his utter, barefaced, rank hypocrisy in previously leading the criticism of others who had done the same.

So who do we crucify?

Ming, the Public Servant or the Guard? Or all?

We have Taoiseachs who blatantly lied about receiving corrupt payments, still receiving pensions and we have a problem with a TD trying to dodge penalty points for making a phone call.

Personally I would sack the guard that thinks making a phone call is a real crime.

P_1

NAP123 wrote: »

So who do we crucify?

Ming, the Public Servant or the Guard? Or all?

We have Taoiseachs who blatantly lied about receiving corrupt payments, still receiving pensions and we have a problem with a TD trying to dodge penalty points for making a phone call.

Personally I would sack the guard that thinks making a phone call is a real crime.

Why would you want to do that? For whatever reasons it is in the 'rulebook' as being something that is not to be done. In this case the guard in question was only doing their job.

NAP123

P_1 wrote: »

Why would you want to do that? For whatever reasons it is in the 'rulebook' as being something that is not to be done. In this case the guard in question was only doing their job.

Do you think talking on your mobile phone is a crime?

Do you think that guards might have better or more important crimes to investigate or discover?

We have a case in Britain where an ex minister and his wife have gone to jail for swapping penalty points and there ex Prime Minister is making a fortune despite knowingly lieing about sending a whole country to war, causing the death of thousands.

Talking on your mobile phone while driving is not a crime.

Giving a bank guarantee or going to War with Iraq is a crime.

P_1

NAP123 wrote: »

Do you think talking on your mobile phone is a crime?

Do you think that guards might have better or more important crimes to investigate or discover?

We have a case in Britain where an ex minister and his wife have gone to jail for swapping penalty points and there ex Prime Minister is making a fortune despite knowingly lieing about sending a whole country to war, causing the death of thousands.

Talking on your mobile phone while driving is not a crime.

Giving a bank guarantee or going to War with Iraq is a crime.

Very loaded questions there.

First of all you need to think about what a crime is. I would define a crime as an action that has the potential to either severely injure or kill another individual or as an action that has the potential to remove the property or assets of another individual without adequately compensating them for it.

Do these actions that you have listed fit the bill?

At the end of the day the guard has to do what those higher up the pile tell him to do. Stopping people for driving while using a mobile phone is one of those things.

NAP123

P_1 wrote: »

Very loaded questions there.

First of all you need to think about what a crime is. I would define a crime as an action that has the potential to either severely injure or kill another individual or as an action that has the potential to remove the property or assets of another individual without adequately compensating them for it.

Do these actions that you have listed fit the bill?

At the end of the day the guard has to do what those higher up the pile tell him to do. Stopping people for driving while using a mobile phone is one of those things.

Unless you stop a politician, of course.

Your opinion of a crime does not matter. That is the point. If you are Tony Blair you can cause as many deaths as you like. If you are Ming you can be stopped and charged by a Garda for answering your phone while driving. If you are a well connected council official you can get Mings penalty points revoked.

Answering to those higher up the pile, without question can sometimes be a crime.

Going Forward

P_1 wrote: »

Ming is an interesting case and the reaction to him tends to sum up Ireland's deeply conservative society in a nutshell.

He looks different, he does things not considered to be the 'normal thing' and he is outspoken.

Quite natural for a conservative society to want to 'get rid of him' I would have thought.

Leaving aside his anti property tax and turf cutting campaigns, he was accepted by a conservative society as something of an oddity, someone who spoke quite clearly and passionately on issues he believed in.

His passion for exposing corruption was laudable until he he admitted to behaving corruptly himself.

The clergy comes to mind.

If it was one of the party TDs would there be the same interest? I would say yes and rightly so.

Rightwing

Ming will be ok.

We have this village attitude in the country, vote for your own regardless. The people of Dublin kept voting in ahern, tipperary people vote in lowry. The village mentality lives on.

D1stant

monkeypants wrote: »

What would a county manager be able to do regarding penalty points? It's between the Gardai, RSA and the courts.

LOL

You have much to learn grasshopper

Going Forward

NAP123 wrote: »

So who do we crucify?

Ming, the Public Servant or the Guard? Or all?

We have Taoiseachs who blatantly lied about receiving corrupt payments, still receiving pensions and we have a problem with a TD trying to dodge penalty points for making a phone call.

Personally I would sack the guard that thinks making a phone call is a real crime.

Ming was driving. He can afford a handsfree or earpiece. He should display some interest in adhering to traffic laws if not for his welfare then for others. As should others in positions of respect.

Yes we have farcical situations with past politicians, and this one is just as farcical but on a smaller scale.

You would sack the gaurd?

Could you expand on that, as to why you would actually sack someone for doing their job?

DeanAustin

NAP123 wrote: »

I bet you would not.

In fact I am willing to bet that you would sue an employer that gave you a boot in the hole.

What sort of a job do you have, that would prefer your sense of dress to your intelligence and capabilitities?

"Boot in the hole" is a figure of speech. If I turned up to my job looking like Ming, I'd be sent home and rightly so.

Your 'sense of dress' and your 'intelligence and capabilities' are not mutually exclusive concepts. No reason an intelligent man can't show his position the respect it deserves and dress appropriately. The man is representing himself, his constituency and the country and he usually turns up looking like he's going for a pint in the local "spit on the floor" pub. It's not acceptable in my view.

Some situations call for a certain standard of dress. What Ming does for a living calls for that standard in my view.

Like I say, anyway, it's a side issue. The man should resign for abusing his position and for being a hypocrite.

DeanAustin

Incidentally, I don't think anyone would be asking him to resign for being on his mobile whilst driving. That's not the issue at all. It's his actions afterwards and his hypocrisy that mean, to me, his position is untenable.

But then, in this country, we don't actually hold people responsible for their actions. We talk the talk but when it comes to taking action, we have no spine.

NAP123

DeanAustin wrote: »

Incidentally, I don't think anyone would be asking him to resign for being on his mobile whilst driving. That's not the issue at all. It's his actions afterwards and his hypocrisy that mean, to me, his position is untenable.

But then, in this country, we don't actually hold people responsible for their actions. We talk the talk but when it comes to taking action, we have no spine.

Demanding the resignation of Ming for lying about something as trivial as penalty points is absurd.

We have ex Taoiseachs, Ministers, Regulators, Sec Gens and Bank Chief Executives on pensions of 150k and more and they are guilty of destroying the livlihoods of a whole country.

We have a Govt who lied about everything in order to get elected.

Both Clare Daly and Luke Flanagan have made accusations against the Garda Siochana. Both have been the subject of leaked information.

The law in this country is not applicable to all.

P_1

People who find themselves in a position of power would be naturally inclined to use whatever means they have at their disposal to keep themselves in that position of power I would have thought.

antoobrien

NAP123 wrote: »

We have ex Taoiseachs, Ministers, Regulators, Sec Gens and Bank Chief Executives on pensions of 150k and more and they are guilty of destroying the livlihoods of a whole country.

So the companies that built the properties & people that bought them bear absolutely no responsibility for their actions?

The real problem with the country, trying to shove the blame off on somebody else. Like the rest of the population Ming needs to take responsibility for his decisions and actions.

DeanAustin

NAP123 wrote: »

Demanding the resignation of Ming for lying about something as trivial as penalty points is absurd.

We have ex Taoiseachs, Ministers, Regulators, Sec Gens and Bank Chief Executives on pensions of 150k and more and they are guilty of destroying the livlihoods of a whole country.

We have a Govt who lied about everything in order to get elected.

Both Clare Daly and Luke Flanagan have made accusations against the Garda Siochana. Both have been the subject of leaked information.

The law in this country is not applicable to all.

So where do we set the bar for acceptable behaviour? As long as you're better than the worst offenders you are ok?

It's a point of principle. He showed himself to be corrupt. Regardless of the scale of that corruption, that's enough for him to resign in my view.

Godge

NAP123 wrote: »

Demanding the resignation of Ming for lying about something as trivial as penalty points is absurd.

We have ex Taoiseachs, Ministers, Regulators, Sec Gens and Bank Chief Executives on pensions of 150k and more and they are guilty of destroying the livlihoods of a whole country.

We have a Govt who lied about everything in order to get elected.

Both Clare Daly and Luke Flanagan have made accusations against the Garda Siochana. Both have been the subject of leaked information.

The law in this country is not applicable to all.

Well then, what you are saying is that Ming is just like all the others.

If he and his Technical Group believe in new politics and no corruption then he should do the honourable thing. If they are just another variation of FF of old, admit it and get on with it.

The silence of the Technical Group on this is sickening.

Everything changes but it all still remains the same.

nice_guy80

another victory for Ming

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/luke-ming-flanagan-correction-29337911.html

all hail Ming!

Godge

nice_guy80 wrote: »

another victory for Ming

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/luke-ming-flanagan-correction-29337911.html

all hail Ming!

What a rebel, he doesn't use his fob to key in.

nice_guy80

Godge wrote: »

What a rebel, he doesn't use his fob to key in.

I was referring to the correction by the Irish Independent

I think Ming is bringing them to court for slander.

Ash.J.Williams

I would have thought if you haven't made an effort to sign in then you are absent?

Godge

nice_guy80 wrote: »

I was referring to the correction by the Irish Independent

I think Ming is bringing them to court for slander.

As they wrote it rather than saying it, it is libel.

However, the information they got was basically true, he didn't key in for most of the time.

Perhaps he just wanted to show up for ten minutes in the Dail, wave his hand at the camera or ask a question and then disappear back home again. We don't know, because he didn't key in.

john.han

Godge wrote: »

As they wrote it rather than saying it, it is libel.

It's all defamation these days actually. They should do a bit more fact checking, basic journalism.

AllGunsBlazing

What does any of this have to do with an economics forum?