Macro Split - too much protein/fat????

rubiesarered

Just interested in the way fitness boardsies split their macros…

I was talking about this last night with 4 people who would all be into their training and healthy eating and they all used a similar ratio but mine was totally different. Now I’m wondering whether I’m eating waaay too much protein and/or too much fat.

My carb ratio stays the same but I switch up my protein & fat ratios on alternate days. So I use a 40P/35F/25C or a 45P/30F/25C split with those fats coming mainly from fish and avocado (oily fish on the high fat day).

The stickies seem to suggest a split of 25P/15F/60C but I can’t comprehend how someone could get 60% of their nutrition from carbs!

Edited to say: I didn’t work out my macro split and then tailor my diet around it but, after talking about what I eat (which seems to work for me), I sat down and worked out the macro split for my daily intake.

generic2012

Im writing this on my phone so it wont be long or detailed but if you want more info let me know, i can back to you tonight on the computer. Totally disregard any mention of macro percentages, they are total nonsense. Depends if your bulking/cutting/ maintaining. Lets say you're maintaining with an allowance of 2500 calories and your suggested protein intake is 200 grams daily. 200 x 4 = 800 (calories from protein). 2500 - 800 = 1700 (remaining calories needed to maintain current weight.) These 1700 calories can be made up of any ratio of carbs and fat you want. I try and hit a minimum of .25 grams of fat per lb lean mass but it is generally much more as I find it it fills me up more. What is your weight, %bodyfat and are you cutting or bulking? I can give you and example of what i mean

rubiesarered

Thanks for the help. On my phone here too. I'm currently 59kg and I'm cutting. I'm female. I worked out that I should be aiming for 1600 cal per day. Does that seem a bit high? I don't want to go too far below my maintenance as I don't want to drop any of the muscle I've worked hard to build. Of that 1600, at least 40% comes from protein. I find that my body is very sensitive to carbs so I really only eat oats & brown rice. That leaves a lot of calories to make up (unless i eat even more protein) so I eat a lot of oily fish and avocados. I also eat loads of green veg which fills me up really quickly.

meijin

very simple:
protein = whatever you need to rebuild your muscles, etc., based on your weight and activity level
carbs = veggies, fruits; it's actually quite difficult to eat more than 20-25% from no carb-dense foods (so excluding grains, potatoes, etc.)
fats = remainder your energy needs

40P/35F/25C or a 45P/30F/25C looks like maybe a bit too much protein (unless you need it? how did you calculate it? but don't use proteins for energy - that's a waste) and too little fats? For example my goal was 30P/50F/20C @ 3200kcal/day [76kg male] and seemed OK (some days I would eat 1000kcal more though )

meijin

pawsandheels wrote: »

I find that my body is very sensitive to carbs so I really only eat oats & brown rice.

If you're very sensitive to carbs, why do you eat grains...? why not going for veggies and moderate fruits - carbs that have more nutrition

rubiesarered

meijin wrote: »

40P/35F/25C or a 45P/30F/25C looks like maybe a bit too much protein (unless you need it? how did you calculate it?

I didn't really. I tweaked my diet until it seemed to be doing what I wanted it to. Then I entered it all into fitday to see what the breakdown was. I don't really eat many carbs so had to get the other calories from somewhere. Thought I shouldn't go too high on the fats so upped the protein.

rubiesarered

meijin wrote: »

If you're very sensitive to carbs, why do you eat grains...? why not going for veggies and moderate fruits - carbs that have more nutrition

Well I eat porridge for breakfast and a small portion of brown rice with my dinner. Other than that I eat green veg (loads of it).

rubiesarered

My diet would be like:
9am 35g oats with almond milk
12pm 2 chicken fillets, lettuce, olives, baby beetroot, avocado, splash balsamic vinegar. 1 rice cake
4pm soy protein shake
Somewhere between 5:30 - 7:30 gym
7:45pm steamed green veg (brocolli, spinach, courgette, mushroom), small portion brown rice, then either grilled salmon or seabass. Once a week id have steak, maybe one night oven baked meatballs.

meijin

pawsandheels wrote: »

My diet would be like:
9am 35g oats with almond milk
12pm 2 chicken fillets, lettuce, olives, baby beetroot, avocado, splash balsamic vinegar. 1 rice cake
4pm soy protein shake
Somewhere between 5:30 - 7:30 gym
7:45pm steamed green veg (brocolli, spinach, courgette, mushroom), small portion brown rice, then either grilled salmon or seabass. Once a week id have steak, maybe one night oven baked meatballs.

Looks pretty good!

The changes I would suggest:
- meat and nuts (or other fat source) for breakfast - http://www.charlespoliquin.com/ArticlesMultimedia/Articles/Article/270/The_Meat_and_Nut_Breakfast.aspx
- replace rice cake with a fruit
- drop the soy protein - have some real food there
- protein shake after gym is OK (but not soy), and your dinner (which looks perfect) maybe 1h later

rubiesarered

meijin wrote: »

Looks pretty good!

The changes I would suggest:
- meat and nuts (or other fat source) for breakfast - http://www.charlespoliquin.com/ArticlesMultimedia/Articles/Article/270/The_Meat_and_Nut_Breakfast.aspx
- replace rice cake with a fruit
- drop the soy protein - have some real food there
- protein shake after gym is OK (but not soy), and your dinner (which looks perfect) maybe 1h later

Okay thanks for all the help. I used to eat steamed mackerel for breakfast but switched to oats cos I thought it was too much oily fish. I could eat that on the days i have white fish/steak for dinner and have oats on the days I eat salmon for dinner. I could switch the rice cake for an apple no problem. I use soy protein cos I'm allergic to dairy so no whey or casein.

meijin

pawsandheels wrote: »

I use soy protein cos I'm allergic to dairy so no whey or casein.

You can get other non-dairy proteins: pea, brown rice, hemp, or just eat real food. Soy is really not recommended by some people, for example
http://www.charlespoliquin.com/ArticlesMultimedia/Articles/Article/35/Soy_Is_For_Dorks.aspx
http://www.charlespoliquin.com/Lifestyle/Nutrition/41/Risks_and_Benefits_of_Soy.aspx
http://www.myyogaonline.com/healthy-living/nutrition/the-soy-debate

Mellor

pawsandheels wrote: »

I use soy protein cos I'm allergic to dairy so no whey or casein.

A dairy allergy doesn't necessarily mean you are aj ethic to whey and caesin.
For a lot if people it's lactose that gives then trouble. Pure dairy protein is lactose free, so depending on your specific reaction you might be ok with whey isolates etc

generic2012

I'm going to have to disagree with a few points of meijins there, sorry meijin. First of all I don't think telling some one their dietary requirements using percentages is a good idea, unless used in the correct context. Which would be working out the net macronutrient needs and then giving them as percentages of total caloric intake, not vice versa. Consider a diet with 1000 calories and another with 4000, both containing 30% protein. The first would contain 75 grams of protein and the other 300. It is better to give recommendations in terms of a given nutrient per lb/kg (preferably lean body mass also).

Secondly the only way you could have too much protein (in an everyday situation) is if it was stopping you from getting enough fat in your diet. A gram of protein has 4 kcal but due to is thermogenic effect (the energy required to digest it) some people say it should be listed at 3-3.2 kcal/g. This means for every 400 calories of protein you eat, you use 80 - 100 calories to digest it all. Protein is also the most satiating of the macronutrients, meaning it fills you up more than carbs or fat. It is important to increase your protein intake when in a calorie deficit so you maintain your muscle mass, which will help prevent your metabolism from dropping. For dieting, Lyle McDonald recommends 2.6 - 3.0 grams per kg of lean body mass for female strength/power athletes and 1.63 - 1.92 g/kg of LBM for female endurance athletes.

This is an explanation/example of how to work out your protein requirements, you will have to tweak it to your own needs. You weigh 59 kg, at I'll guess 20% bodyfat which would give you, roughly, a lean body mass of 50 kg. Take the middle number in the range protein requirements, 2.3 g/kg (You will pick whatever you feel is the most suitable for you) and multiply it by your 50 (or whatever your actual lean body mass is). This will give you 115g protein. This equals 460 kcal so you are left with 1,140 calories for the day.

As long as you ingest your minimum requirements (which the World Health Organisation says is 32g) you can make the rest of your calories up of whatever you want. Because you are female, in a caloric deficit and say you dont respond well to carbs I would try and ingest well over the 32g as low dietary fat consumption will mess up your hormones, making you pissed off and groggy, which isn't conducive to sticking with a diet! A lot of important vitamins are fat soluble (ie. need fat to be absorbed), so all those green veg you are eating would go waste on a low fat diet! If you allow high fat in your diet you will be able to eat more red meat which will allow for more iron which is very important for women. Do not believe all the crap about high fat being bad for you, it wont have any ill effects as long as they are not trans fats and you are in a caloric deficit. I also find fats more filling than carbs, I've no proof for this one though! I just base it on the fact that I could eat a loaf of bread in one sitting without getting full!

So if we say you have a minimum of 40g of fat to get each day, (I would rather at least 50 though) that's 360 kcal. If you take that from your 1140 kcal you will be left with 780 kcal or 195g of carbs for the day.

So most people would work out those macronutrients as percentages and tell you to eat that every day but what I find FAR more sensible and maintainable is to tell you to get AT LEAST 460 kcal from protein, AT LEAST 360 kcals from fat and make up your other 780 kcal from protein, fats or carbs.

For example, if every day you made sure you eat 6 eggs and 2 chicken breasts (not necessarily at once!) which would contain 113g protein, 50g fat and 2.4g carbs equalling 930 calories, you could eat another 670 calories of literally anything you wanted everyday, be it meat, pasta, green veg or chocolate biscuits and still lose weight.

So my advice would be to eat your 115g of protein and 40/50 grams of fat then tweak your remaining calories till it feels right. Also, If you eat 1800 kcals one day eat 1400 the next day or 1500 the next 2 days or whatever so it'll even out to a daily average of 1600. When your weight loss starts to slow down lower your 670 calories (or whatever yours will be) to 600 and so on.

If I missed anything, wasn't clear or you want an explanation for any of my recommendations please ask me and I will gladly get back to you. Please keep me posted on how you get on!

Best of Luck!

rubiesarered

Mellor wrote: »

A dairy allergy doesn't necessarily mean you are aj ethic to whey and caesin.
For a lot if people it's lactose that gives then trouble. Pure dairy protein is lactose free, so depending on your specific reaction you might be ok with whey isolates etc

Just to clarify this point - I can't have any dairy products at all. In fact, my body seems to react to whey quicker than other dairy products such as yogurt or cheese. I've tried lactose free milk as well and it caused a reaction.

rubiesarered

generic2012 wrote: »

you could eat another 670 calories of literally anything you wanted everyday, be it meat, pasta, green veg or chocolate biscuits and still lose weight.

Thanks for all your help. However, I have to say that I disagree with the above bit. If you are cutting as opposed to maintaining, I don't think that all calories are equal. I think its better to eat 100kcal of chicken than 100kcal of chocolate biscuit. Maybe its just a personal thing - I don't eat cr*p at at all except for one cheat meal a week. I can't do the whole "only eat one biscuit" thing. I'd rather eat none that eat one.

generic2012

Im afraid a calorie is a calorie. A calorie is a unit of measure for energy. Specifically, a calorie is the amount of energy needed to raise one gram of water 1 degree Celsius (at atmospheric pressure A calorie deficit will result in weight loss regardless of what the macronutrient make up of those calories is. If, however, you want to lose fat and not muscle you should eat enough protein and if you want to stay healthy you should eat enough fat. Those two parts of your diet are covered, therefore regardless of what you eat next, as long as you remain in a caloric deficit, lose primarily fat and also get lots of micronutrients. I was merely highlighting the flexibility of the diet I suggested. Naturally chicken/steak/vegetables etc would be a better decision but you could have your 'cheat meal' everyday if it stays within your caloric threshold. Clean foods, crap foods and all those terms are all subjective, I would consider bread total crap but some people will say its good so Id stay away from those terms. If you eat an apple or a chocolate bar the sugar gets broken down to glucose, the same with brown bread. The only difference is the rate its broken down at. I would say to eat an apple over chocolate and brown bread over white but that would be purely for the micronutrient and fibre content, it is totally irrelevent for weight loss.

Will brink said something along the lines off; calories dictate how much weight is lost, macronutrients dictate what is lost.

Dont listen to people who try to over complicate the process of weight loss.

Mellor

generic2012 wrote: »

Im afraid a calorie is a calorie. A calorie is a unit of measure for energy. Specifically, a calorie is the amount of energy needed to raise one gram of water 1 degree Celsius (at atmospheric pressure

A couple if errors with this.
We're arent machines, so we don't turn 100 calories of food into 100 calories of energy. For numerous reasons, one being the varying thermic effect of food (weren't you the one that brought that up?) but tbh the difference is minor, I'm just pointing it out for completeness. So lets ignore that , lets say that they are very calorie is the same. 500 cals of protein is the same as 500 cals of carbs in terms of weight loss, but that assumes that people will take in the same amount of either, which isn't true. Certain foods are more likely to trigger cravings, certain foods are more likely to come in over sized portions. So in terms of diet adherence, all calories aren't equal.

I agree with your general point. Get enough protein, enough fat and just make up the rest forgetting about marco ratios. But the way you presented it over the last two posts was over complicated, that simply sentence above would of been enough.

generic2012

A calorie is a constant unit of energy, ie. it doesnt change, exactly like a litre or a mile or any unit of measurement. The thermic effect of food is a what is used to describe our bodies use of energy to digest that food. The food contains the same amount of calories but we spend more calories digesting it resulting in a net loss of calories. As i said earlier Im talking about pure weight loss, not serving size or cravings. Different macronutrients have different effects on the body as you say, I 100% agree with you there but a calorie is a calorie, it is a unit of energy that cannot change. I could of went into more detail about the different macronutrients and their efeect on imporyant hormones such as leptin, ghrelin, insulin etc. but I believe that adhering to a diet is by far the most important issue. If you cover your neccesary macronutrients and stay within your caloric threshold you will lose fat over muscle and stay healthy. I think we just got a bit caught up in technicalities there but we mean the same thing! The original question was about too much fat and protein, I hope I covered that but i can give a few tips on how I keep away cravings and/hormonal responses to macronutrients if thats the issue?