pushy father

misspumpqueen

Hey,

Long story short, i met this guy at the end of september last year, by the end of october i was pregnant. i have a feeling he did it on purpose and obviously i will never be able to prove it but the feeling is just there. stupidly, i tried to make it work between us but i was dealing with a lot of personal issues, and the shock of the pregnancy, plus his disrespect for me made me finish with him. i thought that would be it, not that he'd disappear, but he'd take it we weren't together anymore. 4 months later and i'm still having to tell him we have no future together. i had my scan a few weeks ago, my mum and himself came. i think he won my mam over. before when i met him, he was VERY argumentative, wouldn't listen to a thing i had to say and basically was very disrecpectful to my feelings. after my mum n i met him for the scan, my mam start saying i had to take his feelings into consideration. i know the best thing would have been to cut contact straight off, but i want him to be involved in the child's life.
A while ago, he started respecting my wishes to not text me or ask to see me. i asked him to do this because every time we would meet up, he'd try to talk me in to taking him back and it was stressing me out big time. he did stop and i was very appreciative of it. but now after the scan, he's started up again. he's asking for a second chance at a relationship and i just don't know what to do. i am not thinking of getting back with him at all, but i am just running out of ways to say - its over. i am not a mean person by nature, and it's very hard for me sometimes to ignore him, but i feel it's best as it only works me up if i talk to him. he is set on us living together after the baby is born, and will not listen to me when i say it's not going to happen. i think he is now trying to play with my emotions because he telling me he loves me and that i took his breath away when we first met. we were only dating for three months tops so i don't know how he was and can still be in love with me. i have told him i don't love him. i have arranged to see a social worker in the hospital i am registered with, but i just want to know has anyone else had any experience of anything like this? like i said i think he's trying to play with my emotions because i'm trying to think of the nicest way to contstantly be letting him down. if he is genuine about his feelings, then i know how he feels because i was still in love with my ex for ages after we ended.. but we were going out for a year, not three months. but then when i really think about our (the father and i) whole relationship as a whole, only recently has he started to respect my wishes. he would comment on my weight, when it looked like i'd lost a bit of weight, he would try stop me from ordering chips or whatever in mcdonalds, he was texting other girls, he basically tried to force me to be in a relationship with him, if i told him not to touch me, he'd ignore me, and still do it, so as you can see, i did have reasons for ending it with him. as i mentioned, i'm waiting for an appointment with social worker, but it would be really good to hear of another person's experience with this, if there is any.

thanks for reading, and sorry for the length!!

PlainP

misspumpqueen wrote: »

Hey,

Long story short, i met this guy at the end of september last year, by the end of october i was pregnant. i have a feeling he did it on purpose and obviously i will never be able to prove it but the feeling is just there. stupidly, i tried to make it work between us but i was dealing with a lot of personal issues, and the shock of the pregnancy, plus his disrespect for me made me finish with him. i thought that would be it, not that he'd disappear, but he'd take it we weren't together anymore. 4 months later and i'm still having to tell him we have no future together. i had my scan a few weeks ago, my mum and himself came. i think he won my mam over. before when i met him, he was VERY argumentative, wouldn't listen to a thing i had to say and basically was very disrecpectful to my feelings. after my mum n i met him for the scan, my mam start saying i had to take his feelings into consideration. i know the best thing would have been to cut contact straight off, but i want him to be involved in the child's life.
A while ago, he started respecting my wishes to not text me or ask to see me. i asked him to do this because every time we would meet up, he'd try to talk me in to taking him back and it was stressing me out big time. he did stop and i was very appreciative of it. but now after the scan, he's started up again. he's asking for a second chance at a relationship and i just don't know what to do. i am not thinking of getting back with him at all, but i am just running out of ways to say - its over. i am not a mean person by nature, and it's very hard for me sometimes to ignore him, but i feel it's best as it only works me up if i talk to him. he is set on us living together after the baby is born, and will not listen to me when i say it's not going to happen. i think he is now trying to play with my emotions because he telling me he loves me and that i took his breath away when we first met. we were only dating for three months tops so i don't know how he was and can still be in love with me. i have told him i don't love him. i have arranged to see a social worker in the hospital i am registered with, but i just want to know has anyone else had any experience of anything like this? like i said i think he's trying to play with my emotions because i'm trying to think of the nicest way to contstantly be letting him down. if he is genuine about his feelings, then i know how he feels because i was still in love with my ex for ages after we ended.. but we were going out for a year, not three months. but then when i really think about our (the father and i) whole relationship as a whole, only recently has he started to respect my wishes. he would comment on my weight, when it looked like i'd lost a bit of weight, he would try stop me from ordering chips or whatever in mcdonalds, he was texting other girls, he basically tried to force me to be in a relationship with him, if i told him not to touch me, he'd ignore me, and still do it, so as you can see, i did have reasons for ending it with him. as i mentioned, i'm waiting for an appointment with social worker, but it would be really good to hear of another person's experience with this, if there is any.

thanks for reading, and sorry for the length!!

How can he get you pregnant on purpose? Did you not use protection or did he sabotage it in some way?

In relation to you telling him it's over all you can do is just stick to your guns and when the baby is born work out maintenance and access so he can see the child.

You seem to be under alot of pressure and this is not good for the pregnancy so try and get help from family members when your explaining about access and maintenance.

Orion

I've edited the thread title as the father's nationality is not relevant to the op

misspumpqueen

We used protection, but it split, but i remember him disappearing to the bathroom and can't remember if it was before things happened, or during it. If it was during it, he may have ripped it. He had been saying to me i'm going to have a child with you. I was adament that he wasn't. I know i was stupid to sleep with him after that, and i can regret it, or just move on, n i have to move on. i took the morning after pill too, n it didn't work.

i have been sticking to my guns, literally repeating everything again and again, it's just getting tiring at this stage. i'm just wondering is there anything else i can do to get through to him.

I know, and that's another reason why i asked him to stop texting me. i talk to my family members and friends about it, and i have a counsellor for the previously mentioned personal issues, i was just looking to see if anyone on here had any similar experiences.

Justask

First off congratulations on your bundle of joy.

Im guessing by your post your very young? What are the circumstances that you are still spending time with him? Or is all this hassle through phone and text messages?

At this point his feelings are not your concern the health and welfare of the baby is. You need to be extremely firm with him. There is no need for contact at this point. Tell him you will inform him about any developments with the baby through a third party ie a sister or aunt etc. And the harassment has to stop or you will go down a route to mske it stop. Hopefully u wont have to go that far and he will get the message.
But you have to be firm and consistent.

As for him getting you pregnant on purpose I doubt it and there is no point driving yourself nuts thinking if he did or didnt.

The very best of luck and mind you

misspumpqueen

Justask wrote: »

First off congratulations on your bundle of joy.

Im guessing by your post your very young? What are the circumstances that you are still spending time with him? Or is all this hassle through phone and text messages?

At this point his feelings are not your concern the health and welfare of the baby is. You need to be extremely firm with him. There is no need for contact at this point. Tell him you will inform him about any developments with the baby through a third party ie a sister or aunt etc. And the harassment has to stop or you will go down a route to mske it stop. Hopefully u wont have to go that far and he will get the message.
But you have to be firm and consistent.

As for him getting you pregnant on purpose I doubt it and there is no point driving yourself nuts thinking if he did or didnt.

The very best of luck and mind you

Thanks even in this messy situation, i love the baby so much already.

I'm 23. I met up with him several times because i felt it was the best way to keep on good terms with him if i wanted him to be in the childs life. I suppose i felt it was necessary to meet him every now and again to let him know what was going on, and also to find out what he was doing regarding a job/visa (his visa is currently not valid as he's on a student one and he hasn't paid his student fees). Every time we did meet up though it was a disaster and i would come home very upset. The last time we actually talked about things in person, he kept ringing people, answering his phone and when i asked him to stop, he said "why, am i in an interview?" :mad: after that, i knew i couldn't do it any more.
Since then it's mostly been through texting that we're communicating. I don't want to meet up with him because i know how it will go.

I used to put other people's feelings before mine a lot, it's quite strange for me to put myself first, but in this instance i know i have to. i am trying my best to be firm with him. You would think that when you tell someone you don't love them, that it would be over.

It's good to get everyone's opinions, even if they're different. I'm just constantly replaying everything in my mind, wondering if i'm right, or if he is right, and it's just really tiring me out! Thanks for your reply!

The Corinthian

First of all, maybe he intentionally sought to impregnate you and maybe he didn't. Even if he did, you do also have to accept that you still slept with him, even after you suspected this was going on. So while it may shed light on his overall motivations and ethics, you're as well to let the matter go in your mind, as it's just going to fester there if you don't.

As to his behaviour, all you can do is stand your ground and be firm. If he cannot control his behaviour, then you need to set boundaries that no longer allow him the option of misbehaving - agree to meetings only with third parties present, if he is harassing you via email or text, then block his number/email and inform him he needs to go through a third party to contact you. Keep all abusive communications, however, as they may be needed in court later.

Some people, especially if they are emotionally shallow, narcissistic or borderline (I am not suggesting he is, btw), can't deal with rejection. They want what they want and won't take no for an answer. This naturally can lead to tensions and eventually belligerence, which is preferably avoided - but if the only way to do so is to give them what they want, then sometimes it's just better to be prepared.

In this regard, you're lucky as you're a woman; you'll have custody and the courts will typically favour you, however this doesn't mean that he won't be a problem and continue or escalate his harassment.

So all you have to do is to remain firm, stand by your boundaries; reward him if he respects them and punish him if he does not - sounds extreme, but if you're dealing with someone who is behaving so immaturely, then you ultimately have to treat them as a child. Reason is pointless.

After that, all you can hope for is that time will mellow him, or he'll find someone else, or you do and he accepts this. If not, you should still respect his rights as your child's father, but not that he has any right to make your life a misery through such harassment.

misspumpqueen

The Corinthian wrote: »

First of all, maybe he intentionally sought to impregnate you and maybe he didn't. Even if he did, you do also have to accept that you still slept with him, even after you suspected this was going on. So while it may shed light on his overall motivations and ethics, you're as well to let the matter go in your mind, as it's just going to fester there if you don't.

As to his behaviour, all you can do is stand your ground and be firm. If he cannot control his behaviour, then you need to set boundaries that no longer allow him the option of misbehaving - agree to meetings only with third parties present, if he is harassing you via email or text, then block his number/email and inform him he needs to go through a third party to contact you. Keep all abusive communications, however, as they may be needed in court later.

Some people, especially if they are emotionally shallow, narcissistic or borderline (I am not suggesting he is, btw), can't deal with rejection. They want what they want and won't take no for an answer. This naturally can lead to tensions and eventually belligerence, which is preferably avoided - but if the only way to do so is to give them what they want, then sometimes it's just better to be prepared.

In this regard, you're lucky as you're a woman; you'll have custody and the courts will typically favour you, however this doesn't mean that he won't be a problem and continue or escalate his harvestman.

So all you have to do is to remain firm, stand by your boundaries; reward him if he respects them and punish him if he does not - sounds extreme, but if you're dealing with someone who is behaving so immaturely, then you ultimately have to treat them as a child. Reason is pointless.

After that, all you can hope for is that time will mellow him, or he'll find someone else, or you do and he accepts this. If not, you should still respect his rights as your child's father, but not that he has any right to make your life a misery through such harassment.

Thanks for your reply. I agree with you that I have to move on. It would eat me up if I kept thinking about it, and as I said, I can't remember when he went into the bathroom, so I'll never be able to prove it. I have to let it go.

I will continue to be firm as long as i have to, until it sinks in. It is sometimes like having to deal with a child who can't take no for an answer. Even the way he reacts to things in person is very immature. I guess the only option really is to stand my ground no matter what he says now and just look after myself and the baby.

Thank you to everyone for your replies, I feel a little burden lifted off my shoulders. Hopefully the meeting with the social worker will be beneficial too and I'll be able to relax a bit more.

LifesgoodwithLG

Hi there OP, Hope that all is going well with your pregnancy, I have indirectly experienced the other side of your story, where in this case the lady may have gotten pregnant on purpose only to exclude the baby's father, it has turned into a very sad bitter affair for everyone involved so I would recommend you and the baby's father staying on friendly terms as much as possible. You both have to put your baby first.

I am a woman so instinctively I see the women's side first. The experience of the above case has made me see that when things go wrong men can get very shafted in terms of their rights and responsibilites. You mention that the baby's father is very pushy, maybe he feels very excluded from the pregnancy.

Saying that I would strongly suggest you hold firm about the relationship being over. Best of luck again.

misspumpqueen

LifesgoodwithLG wrote: »

Hi there OP, Hope that all is going well with your pregnancy, I have indirectly experienced the other side of your story, where in this case the lady may have gotten pregnant on purpose only to exclude the baby's father, it has turned into a very sad bitter affair for everyone involved so I would recommend you and the baby's father staying on friendly terms as much as possible. You both have to put your baby first.

I am a woman so instinctively I see the women's side first. The experience of the above case has made me see that when things go wrong men can get very shafted in terms of their rights and responsibilites. You mention that the baby's father is very pushy, maybe he feels very excluded from the pregnancy.

Saying that I would strongly suggest you hold firm about the relationship being over. Best of luck again.

Hi, thanks for your reply.

Ultimately, i do want to be friends with this guy. But I am afraid to meet him and see him because I'm afraid of what he might do. He still tries to put his arms around me, and hold my hand, and I'm uncomfortable with it. When I tell him this, he just laughs. It's very hard to get through to him. I understand that it may be possible he is feeling excluded, but I do feel aswell if i started to invite him in, he would most certainly get the wrong idea and think we were a couple again or that i was giving him a second chance. As I mentioned in my first post, he wants us to live together, and i do think this will always be in the back of his mind. I don't want to be mean and exclude him if he really wants to be part of the baby's life, but i will only feel comfortable if he stops thinking we have a future together. It will take me a long time to trust him again, but I do want him to be part of his baby's life. I'm being pulled both ways all the time and it gets really confusing, but I know that the baby is the most important factor here, and we have to watch out for her to make sure she has a happy life.

dori_dormer

Hi,

Im sorry your feeling so much stress while your pregnant, these kinds of things are never easy. You say your mam is warming to him - do you mean she thinks you two should get back together/ live together or does she just now think hes an ok guy and should be more involved? Because if its the first you need to sit down with her and tell her directly what your wishes are and that you need support for your decisions in a time like this.

Regarding boundaries with him- soon you will be buying things for the baby, maybe if you have a list of things youll need, you can photocopy it and hand it to him, saying "you'll need to get these in your place too if you want to take the baby for the day/ overnight etc" . I wouldnt involve him in your shopping etc, keep your personal preparations for the baby separate maybe, it would reinforce the seperate parenting idea.

Perhaps stop thinking about new excuses and ways of letting him down easy. Pick one solid reason - we arent good together / we fight/ i dont trust you/ something, his main thing, and repeat it. Everytime he says "why dont we get back together?" , repeat your set answer, hell hear you eventually, and realise you're not budging. maybe you seem indecisive, changing your mind as to why you cant be together, and he thinks he can manipulate that. Perhaps when you meet, and he starts talking about these things say " we arent here to discuss X, thats been decided, we are here to talk about Y" Say youll go home if he brings it up again. If he does, go home and say youll call him next week to arrange another time to discuss Y.

Again be firm with hand holding etc, take your hand away immediately and firmly and say " we are not together, dont hold my hand" repeat the same line every time with confidence.

Make sure you are certain on your wishes/plans for your and the babies future, living arrangements etc. These kind of people need to be told boundaries over and over again and you need to stick to your guns. Make sure your family / friends are certain too so they cant give him even a tiny bit of hope.

In summary : Decide what you want. Stick to it. Be confident. Repeat yourself. And Good luck!

Arciphel

Did the OP state the fathers nationality and then that info was removed by a mod? Was there a reason for that? I see that you said in another message that he currently has no visa. Now maybe I am being cynical here but can you see where I am going with this?

Gatling

I had a Friend who went through something similar with a non national accidentally got pregnant and the in my opinion sperm donor when he found out she was pregnant decided he was moving in with my friend despite ending the relationship ,she said no way he then wanted to try claim social welfare as a couple then as a family ,every time he didn't get his way he would get very aggressive towards her on on 2 occasion's actually assaulted her ,when the baby was born he tried to register the baby himself and tried to have his name put on the child's birth certificate,and it came out in the end he claimed to the authority's he was due to marry my friend and had been living together for 3 years as a couple and chose to have a family together, as it turns our he was a failed asylum seeker ,
Now I'm a pretty open minded bloke but it sounds exactly what is happening with the op's situation a non national trying to guarantee his right to stay in this country and access to all the benefits that come with it,
Most people won't agree with me but I'd cut off all contact permanently and leave his name off the birth cert,
Its your choice but do really want a family situation forced on you by what sounds as a non national with no legal status to be living here legally,

misspumpqueen

Gatling wrote: »

I had a Friend who went through something similar with a non national accidentally got pregnant and the in my opinion sperm donor when he found out she was pregnant decided he was moving in with my friend despite ending the relationship ,she said no way he then wanted to try claim social welfare as a couple then as a family ,every time he didn't get his way he would get very aggressive towards her on on 2 occasion's actually assaulted her ,when the baby was born he tried to register the baby himself and tried to have his name put on the child's birth certificate,and it came out in the end he claimed to the authority's he was due to marry my friend and had been living together for 3 years as a couple and chose to have a family together, as it turns our he was a failed asylum seeker ,
Now I'm a pretty open minded bloke but it sounds exactly what is happening with the op's situation a non national trying to guarantee his right to stay in this country and access to all the benefits that come with it,
Most people won't agree with me but I'd cut off all contact permanently and leave his name off the birth cert,
Its your choice but do really want a family situation forced on you by what sounds as a non national with no legal status to be living here legally,

what happened with your friend in the end? or is it still on going?

misspumpqueen

dori_dormer wrote: »

Hi,

Im sorry your feeling so much stress while your pregnant, these kinds of things are never easy. You say your mam is warming to him - do you mean she thinks you two should get back together/ live together or does she just now think hes an ok guy and should be more involved? Because if its the first you need to sit down with her and tell her directly what your wishes are and that you need support for your decisions in a time like this.

Regarding boundaries with him- soon you will be buying things for the baby, maybe if you have a list of things youll need, you can photocopy it and hand it to him, saying "you'll need to get these in your place too if you want to take the baby for the day/ overnight etc" . I wouldnt involve him in your shopping etc, keep your personal preparations for the baby separate maybe, it would reinforce the seperate parenting idea.

Perhaps stop thinking about new excuses and ways of letting him down easy. Pick one solid reason - we arent good together / we fight/ i dont trust you/ something, his main thing, and repeat it. Everytime he says "why dont we get back together?" , repeat your set answer, hell hear you eventually, and realise you're not budging. maybe you seem indecisive, changing your mind as to why you cant be together, and he thinks he can manipulate that. Perhaps when you meet, and he starts talking about these things say " we arent here to discuss X, thats been decided, we are here to talk about Y" Say youll go home if he brings it up again. If he does, go home and say youll call him next week to arrange another time to discuss Y.

Again be firm with hand holding etc, take your hand away immediately and firmly and say " we are not together, dont hold my hand" repeat the same line every time with confidence.

Make sure you are certain on your wishes/plans for your and the babies future, living arrangements etc. These kind of people need to be told boundaries over and over again and you need to stick to your guns. Make sure your family / friends are certain too so they cant give him even a tiny bit of hope.

In summary : Decide what you want. Stick to it. Be confident. Repeat yourself. And Good luck!

I don't think she is warming to him in that she thinks i should be with him, she stands by my choice and decision, but he obviously was very polite when he met her, not at all like he would be with me when we met alone, and my mam says as a mother herself, she can't help but feel sorry for him. She thinks of my brother in this situation and feels sorry for him. I never really asked her clearly what she meant by it, I will tonight. She just said that it's clear "he really likes you" and that she thinks it's unfair to be inviting him to scans and hospital visits and then telling him i won't see him for another three weeks or whatever. But i don't really agree with her. If i kept up regular contact with him, i know he would start thinking i'm giving in or that i'm giving him a second chance. The only way I can stand my ground is by ignoring his texts and saying no if he asks to meet up.

Thanks for the advice. I'll stick to one point if he keeps bringing it up. Hopefully it will get through to him. If he went to hold my hand, i would move it out of the way, if he put his arms around my shoulder, i would shrug them off, i have given him every signal in the book that i'm not interested yet it isn't sinking in with him.

Again, thanks for the advice. I will definitely start planning a proper plan for when the baby is born, etc. Thanks again for your help

pwurple

I'm sorry to say I read this and it rang all sorts of bells for me too. A friend of mine was switching pills, as one didn't suit her, and they were using condoms. He apparantly 'forgot' to put one on some evening, and baby ensued.

She felt he had done this deliberately, as he had visa problems.

If you believe this is the case, and that is the only reason he is hanging around, then you need to protect yourself. Keep him off that birth cert. Don't let him get anything delivered to your home either, or set up bills in his name. (that will be the proof he needs to show he is living there).

The way the law is here, he has no rights to that child if you are not married and he is not on the birth cert. he will have no legal relationship or link to you or the baby, might as well be a stranger. Don't give him those rights unless you want to.

Look after yourself.

misspumpqueen

pwurple wrote: »

I'm sorry to say I read this and it rang all sorts of bells for me too. A friend of mine was switching pills, as one didn't suit her, and they were using condoms. He apparantly 'forgot' to put one on some evening, and baby ensued.

She felt he had done this deliberately, as he had visa problems.

If you believe this is the case, and that is the only reason he is hanging around, then you need to protect yourself. Keep him off that birth cert. Don't let him get anything delivered to your home either, or set up bills in his name. (that will be the proof he needs to show he is living there).

The way the law is here, he has no rights to that child if you are not married and he is not on the birth cert. he will have no legal relationship or link to you or the baby, might as well be a stranger. Don't give him those rights unless you want to.

Look after yourself.

Hey, thanks for your reply. Would you be able to tell me what your friend did? Is she still with the guy? Did she put him on the birth cert? Did he cause any trouble after this?

pwurple

She didn't put him on the birth cert. They are not together. His visa expired, and he was not able to get back into the country when he went home.

Gatling

My friend went through hell for a while ,broken nose ,fractured cheek bone later from her sperm donor ,had him charged and he replied with she had racially abused him and tried to accuse her of a hate crime ,which was absolutely crazy ,he done a runner as he wasn't remanded while awaiting trial ,herself picked herself up finished college has an amazing little girl and is planning a future over sea's ,
I'm a father of 2 little girls and I'm shocked these type of incident's is increasingly occurring ,heard a story through a solicitor that a case involved a non national moved in with a girl after a sob story early into a relationship ,he was super nice to her the family and friends, then she had a blood test for something when this girl went to her gp for the results the doctor asked how long she was getting fertility treatment ,turned out Mr super nice was spiking her meals with fertility drugs he bought online,its amazingly scary this happen's with anybody

solas111

Whether he did it on purpose or not and what his motives may have been are things that are now past history and besides it takes two to tango.

Your concern now must be for the safety your child and your own safety. You don’t know how this guy is going to react so you would be wise to tread cautiously and to call on your family for support. As the father of your child the man has obviously got some legal rights and there is also the right of the child to have a father. That does not mean that you have to have a relationship with him and going by his actions it would probably be unwise to enter into such a relationship. If a guy tries to control you now he is likely to become more controlling and probably more dangerous in a long-term relationship.

You have to be firm and tell him that you will take out a barring order unless he backs off. Keep a record of everything that happens, including dates etc. so that you will have evidence if needed. You may also have to call the Gardaí if he threatens you or refuses to leave you alone. Your social worker should be in a position to advise you.

Do not take the threat to your safety lightly because you don’t know how unpredictable this guy may be.

LegacyUser

Your 1st responsibility to your baby and yourself.

I would let him know that if he continues to hastle you that you will go to the guards about this. If you meet him make sure you have a family member or friend with you and keep a note of everything that happens between you. You will need this information if you have to go to the guards.

If he continues to give you a hard time I would find out as much information as possible about him - where he is living and working. I would then ring the department of social welfare and revenue to let them know who he is, where he lives and what he is doing.
The department of social welfare and or revenue may be watching him or may find this information useful. He could find himself out of pocket or on a plane home after this.

pwurple

solas111 wrote: »

As the father of your child the man has obviously got some legal rights.

Sorry solas, but the man has no legal rights as they are not married. Legal stranger.

She can grant him some rights either by marriage, or legal guardianship with a solicitor, but it doesn't happen automatically.

I would get legal advice here too. You might want to consider this guys financial circumstances. Is he in a position to pay maintenance for his offspring? Children are expensive.

The Corinthian

He's still the child's father though. Cutting him out of the child's life because of his, alleged, entrapment of the mother would be akin to a father refusing to have anything to do with the child because the mother had attempted to entrap him.

Given this neither would it be right to allow him to profit from such an act - presuming that was what he did of course, as this is still just conjecture.

His putting his name on the birth cert will not give him any paternity rights whatsoever, btw. However, it may be useful to him if he were looking to collect evidence that he should be allowed to remain in Ireland.

pwurple

Oh I agree it's the cruddy end of the stick for the father here. But he got someone pregnant without being connected to her legally. If he knew what he was doing and did it deliberately, then he was a fool. If he didn't, it's hard luck. He might know better next time.

The Corinthian

pwurple wrote: »

Oh I agree it's the cruddy end of the stick for the father here. But he got someone pregnant without being connected to her legally. If he knew what he was doing and did it deliberately, then he was a fool. If he didn't, it's hard luck. He might know better next time.

Presuming, first of all, that he is indeed guilty of entrapment - remember, we're not in a position to be judge and jury here.

I'm not suggesting that he should be rewarded for his actions - quite the opposite. However, we're already getting people who are suggesting that this guy should be cut out of his child's life. Ignoring his rights (or lack thereof), this will have an effect on the child. If the 'sins' of a parent, as long as they do not suggest physical danger to the child, justify cutting contact between a parent and child, then you'd also have to agree to a father who cuts contact with a child because the mother attempted to entrapment too.

Otherwise, you're really going to have to rethink the moral position.

As far as his involvement would be, especially as care should be taken so he cannot profit from his actions and may well be living in a foreign country, that's another discussion. As is whether he is potentially a danger to the child - he may be dishonest and 'pushy' but there's been no suggestion of him being physically abusive.

misspumpqueen

I just want to say thank you again for everyone's reply. It really has given me a lot to think about.

I just want to say that all in all i do want him to be part of the baby's life. I want my child to have a father. Maybe I am just jumping to making rash judgements, but it's only because of what I've experienced from him. No matter how much I try to explain it on here or anywhere else, only I will know what he is really like. If I am being honest, I am scared of what he might do. Not that he has put me in danger or anything like that, but if he is the type of person who is not happy when he doesn't get his own way, then who knows. All I'm saying here is I have to be wary and look out for my child's safety. I am all for him being involved in her life. My friend's dad disappeared and I can see how troubled she is from it, I don't want that to be the case here for my baby. But as he still hasn't accepted that we won't be together, I feel if I give him any sort of leeway, he will try and get me to take him back. I don't know whether ignoring him is doing the job, or if i should just have one last serious talk with him. When my parent's split up, they didn't remain friends but they were still able to communicate on friendly terms when it came to dealing with my brother and i. that is the relationship i want. The point of this though is that I'm not looking to exclude him completely from her life. I know it will benefit her to have a father figure and her well being is what matters. I just don't need the stress of having to constantly tell him we're over.

The Corinthian

Clearly set boundaries, explain them to him, as well as the likely consequences if he transgresses them.

LifesgoodwithLG

pwurple wrote: »

Oh I agree it's the cruddy end of the stick for the father here. But he got someone pregnant without being connected to her legally. If he knew what he was doing and did it deliberately, then he was a fool. If he didn't, it's hard luck. He might know better next time.

Seriously ? You would be absolutely slating any guy who had sex with a woman and than said ah well it wa her responsibility not to get pregnant, she'll know better the next time. Come on folks a bit of even handiness here.

The OP appears to be doing her best here to be fair to herself, her ex and also the baby. I think that she has to be very strong and stick to her sentiment that no they will get never get back together however without the threat of violence the baby has a right to know both their father and mother. Best of luck OP I am sure that you are going to be a fab Mammy.

LifesgoodwithLG

pwurple wrote: »

I'm sorry to say I read this and it rang all sorts of bells for me too. A friend of mine was switching pills, as one didn't suit her, and they were using condoms. He apparantly 'forgot' to put one on some evening, and baby ensued.

She felt he had done this deliberately, as he had visa problems.

If you believe this is the case, and that is the only reason he is hanging around, then you need to protect yourself. Keep him off that birth cert. Don't let him get anything delivered to your home either, or set up bills in his name. (that will be the proof he needs to show he is living there).

The way the law is here, he has no rights to that child if you are not married and he is not on the birth cert. he will have no legal relationship or link to you or the baby, might as well be a stranger. Don't give him those rights unless you want to.

Look after yourself.

What about the baby's rights in terms of knowing and being legally recognised as the Fathers child ?

pwurple

LifesgoodwithLG wrote: »

Seriously ? You would be absolutely slating any guy who had sex with a woman and than said ah well it wa her responsibility not to get pregnant, she'll know better the next time. Come on folks a bit of even handiness here.

The OP appears to be doing her best here to be fair to herself, her ex and also the baby. I think that she has to be very strong and stick to her sentiment that no they will get never get back together however without the threat of violence the baby has a right to know both their father and mother. Best of luck OP I am sure that you are going to be a fab Mammy.

wtf, that's not what I said at all... I said HE'll know better next time. Not her. She is doing the best for baby and herself, that seems clear.

Re read my post.

And I think people are throwing around the word 'rights' without any understanding of what it actually means.

sillysmiles

pwurple wrote: »

wtf, that's not what I said at all... I said HE'll know better next time.

But clearly ignoring that he is the child's father and deserves to have a role in the child's life.

Justask

LifesgoodwithLG wrote: »

Seriously ? You would be absolutely slating any guy who had sex with a woman and than said ah well it wa her responsibility not to get pregnant, she'll know better the next time. Come on folks a bit of even handiness here.

The OP appears to be doing her best here to be fair to herself, her ex and also the baby. I think that she has to be very strong and stick to her sentiment that no they will get never get back together however without the threat of violence the baby has a right to know both their father and mother. Best of luck OP I am sure that you are going to be a fab Mammy.

I think you are missing the point here.
Poster means if he planed it he didnt plan it very well

LifesgoodwithLG

Your post could be taken in two ways, I accept that you meant he will be more knowledgable next time however are we suggesting that you only have sex with people that you have a legally binding relationship? If we go back to the OPs statement she wants her child to have their father in their life however does not want to be involved with him as more than being the joint parents of their child.

The Corinthian

pwurple wrote: »

And I think people are throwing around the word 'rights' without any understanding of what it actually means.

Keep me out of such accusations (if they're directed also at me) - what I wrote specifically stated that I was ignoring the issue of rights.

Also while I mentioned some were suggesting that he be cut out of the child's life, I didn't imply you.

pwurple

sillysmiles wrote: »

But clearly ignoring that he is the child's father and deserves to have a role in the child's life.

I am not bothered whether he deserves anything or not. He could be an axe murderer, or a saint for all I know.

All I'm saying is it is entirely up to the OP. She has all the rights and choice here. The decision is all in her hands. He has no rights until she deems it appropriate to give them to him.

*That's* the position he has gotten himself into... and should have known better about.

I'm not making any ethical judgements about who should have slept with who... it's none of my business, we all have sex for goodness sake. I'm just saying it's the current situation. He has no rights, she has them all.

LifesgoodwithLG

In everything there are legal and moral rights and also responsibilities,

I firmly believe that a baby should have the right to know their mother and father, where there is any threat of violence or aggression then the person may forfeit their rights. You are 100% correct in saying that an 'unmarried father' does not have any legal rights over his child, even with putting their name on their birth cert. Although legally accurate, that does not make it it 'right' or just for anyone especially the child.

It goes without saying OP you have to protect yourself and your family, best of luck with the rest of your pregnancy.

The Corinthian

pwurple wrote: »

I'm just saying it's the current situation. He has no rights, she has them all.

Terribly depressing reading if you male.

Makes you want to give up on relationships altogether and just do a Ricky Martin if you want kids; IVF, doner egg, surrogate and papers can all be done for under €70k. I've been to weddings that cost more than that.

Anyhow, now I'll shut up again.

solas111

LifesgoodwithLG wrote: »

You are 100% correct in saying that an 'unmarried father' does not have any legal rights over his child, even with putting their name on their birth cert.

I heard this very subject being discussed by a reputable solicitor on a radio programme this morning and it appears that the ‘unmarried father’ does indeed have some rights. He can apply to a court (can’t recall if it was the District or Circuit Court) to be named as the father on the birth certificate. It is then up to the mother to accept or contest the action. If she contests it will probably go to DNA testing.

pwurple

The Corinthian wrote: »

Terribly depressing reading if you male.

Makes you want to give up on relationships altogether and just do a Ricky Martin if you want kids; IVF, doner egg, surrogate and papers can all be done for under €70k. I've been to weddings that cost more than that.

Anyhow, now I'll shut up again.

Yup, afraid so. Unless you are commited enough to eachother to give marriage a go. Get more rights by default then.

I am all in favour of increasing mens access / rights to their children though. And paternity leave. They get a raw deal all around.

nesf

pwurple wrote: »

But he got someone pregnant without being connected to her legally. If he knew what he was doing and did it deliberately, then he was a fool. If he didn't, it's hard luck. He might know better next time.

Are you serious? Are you actually saying that if my now wife had decided she didn't want me in our son's life that I should just go "hard luck for me, ah well better marry them before having sex next time?" Seriously, please tell me I've completely misinterpreted you and that you don't think an unmarried father's right to access to their children is wholly and completely dependent on the mother's whim.

Sorry, missed your last post.

number66

Sounds like a very distressing situation. You might want to start keeping a diary of any harrassment or incedents incase you have to get the law involved at a later date.

Regards

pwurple

nesf wrote: »

Seriously, please tell me I've completely misinterpreted you and that you don't think an unmarried father's right to access to their children is wholly and completely dependent on the mother's whim.

Can I ask, Why bother writing it with a strikethrough?

Anyway, I don't just think it, I know it to be the way the legal system works. It's the way it is. Some men get a big surprise when the things go sour and the woman takes away the kids. But, they didn't protect their interests from the start and left themselves in a vulnerable position. Hindsight is 20:20 I guess. I can only assume they are blissfully oblivious to the potential consequences, which ruin many unfortunate men's lives.

nesf

pwurple wrote: »

Can I ask, Why bother writing it with a strikethrough?

That was my post, then I saw your posts clarifying your position so I went back and edited it but because it had been live as a post for a bit I struck it through instead of deleting it.

AK333

From what I have read on a few of the OP's posts she is fearful. Afraid of him when with him and he tries to hug her/touch her hand and afraid of what her ex would do if she told him she didn't want any contact with him.

Get out of this situation immediately. Nobody has the right to threaten you, either physically or by implication. If you were my daughter I would face him with you, tell him its over and not to contact you again, under any circumstances.

Space would give you a chance to weigh up your options. Don't feel forced into a situation if its not what you want.

Good luck

The Corinthian

pwurple wrote: »

But, they didn't protect their interests from the start and left themselves in a vulnerable position.

There's not much a man can do to protect their 'interests'.

If married to the woman, the man already has guardianship rights, and there's not much more he can do. If not and in a relationship with the woman, he can apply for guardianship rights, ideally while they're still together and she'll agree to it. If not and not in a relationship (one night stand, casual or short term relationship) then he can still apply for guardianship rights, even if she opposes them, and will more than likely get them, unless he has a criminal record.

And guardianship rights are not much use - better than nothing, I grant you, but ultimately most of the 'rights' they afford are not actually enforced and have little baring on things such as the access.

AK333 wrote: »

Get out of this situation immediately. Nobody has the right to threaten you, either physically or by implication. If you were my daughter I would face him with you, tell him its over and not to contact you again, under any circumstances.

By that logic, a man who's ex is equally and aggressively obsessed with 'making the relationship work' should also cut all contact to both her and his child? Is that what you're suggesting?

DoctorBoo

Several things about your post worry me; you don't feel safe with him, his changes in behaviour depending on the situation or company, his ignoring your desires. These are very worrying characteristics and indicate a manipulative person.

I know you might be dwelling a lot on whether he did it on purpose or not, whether he really is in love with you or not... but I think the most important thing to focus on is how he is trying to control you, your family and the situation. He seems good at it. Ask yourself: would a person who loved and respected you constantly ignore your wishes? Would someone who loved and respected you touch you if he knew it made you uncomfortable? Would someone who loved and respected you put you under such enormous pressure when you are pregnant? I think the answer has to be no. Therefore he either doesn't love you or respect you (or both).

You say you often put others' needs ahead of your own. He knows this and it seems to me he might be trying to take advantage of this trait in you. You need to look after yourself and your baby. You seem like a fair-minded person so I have no doubt that any decision you come to will be considered and responsible. But I think you should trust your instinct on this. If you don't feel safe, i believe there is a genuine and valid reason for it.

Best of luck and be strong.

AK333

The Corinthian wrote: »

By that logic, a man who's ex is equally and aggressively obsessed with 'making the relationship work' should also cut all contact to both her and his child? Is that what you're suggesting?

Don't be ridiculous. The way I read the first post is that the op has asked for help with her situation, not the ins and outs of the legal rights of her ex.

She said she is fearful, she said she is afraid of his reaction if she breaks contact. Nobody should pursue anyone agressively or obsessively and if she's afraid of him, yes she should cut all contact - gives all parties a chance to step back and have a look at the situation.

The child, IMO, doesn't come into it at the moment - she's still pregnant so there is no "cutting all contact to both her and his child" - the child isn't born.

We are not talking hypotheticals here - this young vulnerable (IMO) girl is looking for information and she is afraid - she comes first.

See the above post of Doctorboo - we have to think of the welfare of this young woman first.

The Corinthian

AK333 wrote: »

Don't be ridiculous. The way I read the first post is that the op has asked for help with her situation, not the ins and outs of the legal rights of her ex.

What's legal rights got to do with what I wrote. It's pretty clear he has none.

She said she is fearful, she said she is afraid of his reaction if she breaks contact. Nobody should pursue anyone agressively or obsessively and if she's afraid of him, yes she should cut all contact - gives all parties a chance to step back and have a look at the situation.

Not what you wrote though; "tell him its over and not to contact you again, under any circumstances" isn't exactly a chance to step back, is it?

Now, if you meant to temporarily cut all contact, or even use only a third party for future contact, then fair enough, but I was responding to what you wrote.

We are not talking hypotheticals here

To a great degree we are talking hypotheticals, even the OP is uncertain of the full story and while the man in question seems to be harassing her and making her feel extremely uncomfortable, painting him a dangerous enough to warrant such drastic action as permanently cutting him out has simply not been done by her - only by others jumping to hypothetical conclusions.

Indeed, if we want to talk about vulnerable, he's actually far more vulnerable than her; he has no legal rights and could well be deported, from what we've understood. Or the child who would end up growing up without contact with the father, not because he may be a real danger to anyone, but because of his present harassment.

Which brings me back to my question; reverse the genders and would you advise the same drastic measures? If not, then you're just giving chauvinistic advice.

See the above post of Doctorboo - we have to think of the welfare of this young woman first.

Certainly not to the exclusion of the welfare of the other parties involved, and in fairness the OP is far more balanced in this regard. Even Doctorboo didn't go as far as you.

CelticRambler

Listen, the OP has asked for advice on her situation, not a squabble over what is and isn't a legal right. Take that debate off to another thread or any useful suggestions will get lost in the mess.

@OP: It is impressive that you respect your unborn child's feelings enough to want to give him/her a chance to know her father. You need to insist that the father earns that chance. I would say that you should follow the suggestion above to prepare a list of what the baby/toddler is going to need after he/she is born, then arrange to meet with the father formally with someone neutral (not your mother!) and lay it out for him
1. Between now and when the baby is born, he is to leave you alone - no calls, no texts, no e-mails, no surprise visits
2. You'll send him copies of the scans and any relevant news
3. If - and ONLY IF - he follows N°1, you'll tell him of the birth asap and (barring complications) let him visit within 48 hours.
4. If he's cooperated completely up until then, you'll sit down with him and talk about what kind of shared parenting might be possible.

I came to this thread after the father's nationality was edited out, but the simple reference to that and the comment about an expired visa immediately stood out for me. Without knowing the nationality, it's hard to form an opinion, but I would be worried about a future "unlawful retention" situation if the father is sent back to his home country.

The Corinthian

CelticRambler wrote: »

Listen, the OP has asked for advice on her situation, not a squabble over what is and isn't a legal right.

What's legal rights got to do with any 'squabble' here?

misspumpqueen

hi, op here, I dont really know how to start off this post, but here goes. I never meant for this to get into a debate about who has what rights n who doesn't. I posted this because I wanted to see had any else had any experiences of something like this and what they did if they had. So far the posts have been extremely helpful n its great to get so much feedback. First of all, if I'm honest I have very little idea of what rights the father does have n doesn't have. I've read up information on citizens info website n it says that the unmarried father has no guardianship rights unless the mother gives them to him. As far as it goes in this situation, I won't be giving him any guardianship rights until he proves to me he can be a responsible parent without hassling me. You may disagree with this, but as I said in my last post only I know what he is really like. It is very confusing as the baby isn't born yet, hopefully when she is, it will become clearer. Some of the suggestions to get out of the situation are very tempting,but I do want to at least try, for the sake of the baby.
He is still hassling me. Last week he sent me a text saying he loved me n I told him maybe we should stop talking so he can move on, surprisingly he agreed but I knew deep down that wouldn't be it. Yesterday I got a text from him asking can we talk about the baby n demanded we meet up. Maybe its because I am afraid of him controlling but I dont want to do anything he wants. I told him I would see him in a few weeks, but again, he is saying a few weeks is too long, he needs to see me sooner. He is saying he needs to tell me something important thinking I'll meet up wh him faster out of curiosity. I told him if it was so important, he could tell me now. Surprise surprise he refused.
I have an appointment wh the social worker next week n hopefully things will be a lot clearer after that. lastly, I'll repeat what I said before. I WANT this man to be involved in my baby's life, I want her to have a father figure, n I'm doing my best to try make it fair to everyone. But it's extremely hard when my wishes aren't being met on the other side. I don't want to mean or hurtful to anyone, but ultimately if he doesn't stop this, I will have to make a choice as to whether its beneficial to keep him in my life.