Rickshaws to be banned

Little My

http://www.galwaynews.ie/30683-rickshaws-be-banned-streets-galway

Granted I've never taken one, and I know they can be a bit annoying, but I think banning them altogether is a bit of a shame. They'll be around for a bit until the existing licences expire in the summer according to the article.

Casshern88

ya defiantly a shame , I think they are part of the culture of the unique Galway night life at this stage.

antoobrien

Casshern88 wrote: »

ya defiantly a shame , I think they are part of the culture of the unique Galway night life at this stage.

Interesting definition of culture - something around for a short few years.

Nothing unique about having them in Galway either.

swiftman

maybe if they took it easy going down shop street rather then going as fast as they can, maybe then there wouldnt be a problem. there not banner for no reason

biko

I've taken them once or twice when drunk but if they were banned I wouldn't particularly miss them either.
The article doesn't state why they are banning them, only that it was a “failed experiment”.

antoobrien

biko wrote: »

I've taken them once or twice when drunk but if they were banned I wouldn't particularly miss them either.
The article doesn't state why they are banning them, only that it was a “failed experiment”.

In fairness the article doesn't have to say why they were banned, certain members of the council have long regarded them as a nuisance and they made their feelings known on the matter loudly and frequently.

Iwannahurl

"Cllr Billy Cameron, who seconded the motion, said Galway’s medieval streets were too narrow for rickshaws to operate safely."

If that's the case, what about larger -- and faster -- vehicles routinely operating on various mediaeval streets day and night? Said streets also have a default 50 km/h speed limit, by the way.

hardCopy

Seems a pretty dumbass move by the council. The rickshaws provide jobs, produce less emissions than a taxi and cost the council nothing.

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

If that's the case, what about larger -- and faster -- vehicles routinely operating on various mediaeval streets day and night? Said streets also have a default 50 km/h speed limit, by the way.

There is a general 50km/h limit within the city boundary - the N6 Dual carraigeway up to Mervue being one of the exceptions.

JohnCleary

hardCopy wrote: »

Seems a pretty dumbass move by the council. The rickshaws provide jobs

A bit naive; this is a cash-in-hand job therefore probably contributing nothing to reducing the numbers on live register

squonk

They've got them in Dublin, probably Limerick and no doubt elsewhere as well. I never rode in one. Couldn't see the point really. it's not like Shop St. is the Champs Elysee really. You'd be up to the squar from the Arch in a few minutes. Galway is probably a little more unique in that lots of punter congregate along one particular area so it can be busier.

hardCopy

JohnCleary wrote: »

A bit naive; this is a cash-in-hand job therefore probably contributing nothing to reducing the numbers on live register

They're licensed operators according to the article. Presumably Tax Clearance Certs etc would be required to get a licence. They may even be paying fees to the council for said licences.

Iwannahurl

antoobrien wrote: »

There is a general 50km/h limit within the city boundary - the N6 Dual carraigeway up to Mervue being one of the exceptions.

Galway City's "mediaeval streets" -- which are said to be "too narrow" for pedal-powered rickshaws -- have a 50 km/h speed limit and are used night and day by vehicles that are much larger and faster than rickshaws.

I sense a lack of logical consistency in City Hall.

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Galway City's "mediaeval streets" -- which are said to be "too narrow" for pedal-powered rickshaws -- have a 50 km/h speed limit and are used night and day by vehicles that are much larger and faster than rickshaws.

Vehicles that have little things like power assisted steering and breaking:rolleyes:

It's not unusual to see the ricks swerving the whole way across shop st., so it is not exactly an invalid argument.

Iwannahurl

antoobrien wrote: »

Vehicles that have little things like power assisted steering and breaking:rolleyes:

Vehicles that have big things like engines, and which can reach speeds well in excess of the default 50 km/h speed limit applied to our "mediaeval streets".

If "mediaeval streets" are "too narrow" for rickshaws how can they be wide enough for cars, vans and trucks?

I'm not making a case for rickshaws, by the way. Just wondering how narrow mediaeval streets can be so mysteriously unsuitable for one transport mode but not another, and how they can be deemed appropriate for a speed limit of 50 km/h.

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Vehicles that have big things like engines, and which can reach speeds well in excess of the default 50 km/h speed limit applied to our "mediaeval streets".

If "mediaeval streets" are "too narrow" for rickshaws how can they be wide enough for cars, vans and trucks?

I'm not making a case for rickshaws, by the way. Just wondering how narrow mediaeval streets can be so mysteriously unsuitable for one transport mode but not another, and how they can be deemed appropriate for a speed limit of 50 km/h.

The simple fact of the matter is that the ricks are harder for the driver to control than the vast majority of engine powered vehicles - as evidenced by the way they swing all over the place when the drivers are attempting to go up shop st. So they need more room, making the streets too narrow.

zarquon

The issue here is not just "medievil streets" but pedestrianised "medievil streets" as some here are conveniently ignoring :rolleyes:

Motorised vehicles don't need to swerve, maneuver quickly and brake suddently up shop street. Those rickshaws can be a menace at times when the street is busy. If they were only used on public roads i would understand an outcry at their banning but the fact that they are used on pedestrian walkways is enough to endanger pedestrians. They may also be licensed, but only the most naive of individuals would really believe that the un receipted cash income from these rickshaws is fully registered with Revenue.

BhoscaCapall

Ridiculous to ban them. They're not exactly "taking over", probably because those already there struggle for business as it is. Nobody is forcing you to use them and plenty of people seem to have a bit of a laugh with them.

In all my nights out in Galway I have never seen anyone get hit by them.

More working class people having a living robbed off them by people who are robbing a living.

2Mad2BeMad

*waits for everyone to argue against the banning even though they never been in one*

BhoscaCapall

2Mad2BeMad wrote: »

*waits for everyone to argue against the banning even though they never been in one*

I can't remember ever being black, does this mean I can't argue for their rights?

dilallio

If they banned high-heels instead, there would be no need for Rickshaws.

charlie_says

Are they really a nuisance?

People seem to enjoy using them and I also have never seen or heard of a collision, not that means they don't happen of course. I wonder what the reasoning of the ban here is?

Beats me.

Mrs OBumble

I've seen, and been in, a number of near misses: the drivers are maniacs with limited visibility at times.

I suspect the council doesn't believe they carry public liability insurance - meaning that people could sue the council if they got hurt by one.

They tried a licensing scheme, but it's extremely difficult to enforce, especially since lots of the drivers don't speak much English.

There are no real jobs being lost here (except perhaps among taxi drivers who get less passengers because of the rickshaws) - it's tips only, unreceipted cash business.

And yes, I've been in one, admitted for a ride that only takes 5 mintues to walk!

BhoscaCapall

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I've seen, and been in, a number of near misses: the drivers are maniacs with limited visibility at times.

I suspect the council doesn't believe they carry public liability insurance - meaning that people could sue the council if they got hurt by one.

They tried a licensing scheme, but it's extremely difficult to enforce, especially since lots of the drivers don't speak much English.

There are no real jobs being lost here (except perhaps among taxi drivers who get less passengers because of the rickshaws) - it's tips only, unreceipted cash business.

And yes, I've been in one, admitted for a ride that only takes 5 mintues to walk!

I doubt anyone on here is surprised to hear you come out with this drivel

galwaycyclist

hardCopy wrote: »

They're licensed operators according to the article. Presumably Tax Clearance Certs etc would be required to get a licence. They may even be paying fees to the council for said licences.

I think only some of them are licenced. They are all supposed to be licenced but I dont think that worked satisfactorially. The operators that paid for licences might be entitled to feel hard done by.

Fixer Upper

I've never used one either but I can see why people would on a night out. Drunkenness, high heels, torrential rain, cold weather and stylish rather than warm clothes can all play a part.....

I think the arguments about medieval streets and other traffic are irrelevant as the main route they use is Shop street which is both wide enough and pedestrianised.

Lapin

So a few harmless rickshaws that cost sod all are being banned because 14 councillors decided they were a "failed experiment".

Speaking of "failed experiments", can we have our old Eyre Square back please councillors?

You know, the one you spent millions of our money on by ripping up the park and destroying it with Chinese granite furnishings that continues to cost a fortune to clean.

yermanoffthetv

5 of us piled into one outside the kings head one rainy night after a few scoops, the poor sod cycled us all the way back as far as UCHG when we said we better get off before he has a heart attack we all gave him a heafty tip and he was delighted. I dont see the problem with them. limit them from certain streets if need be but god knows Galway needs more transport options not less. Any chance those councillers would do something usefull for a change like push for a night link bus service? :rolleyes:

thesandeman

Wouldn't mind them if they were made use the roads like other vehicular traffic. Some of them drive like maniacs through the 'pedestrianised' areas at night and a lot of them don't have lights or display the licence, both of which were required as part of the 'experiment'.

thesandeman

It's going to be discussed on Radio 1 Morning Ireland shortly.

JohnCleary

galwaycyclist wrote: »

The operators that paid for licences might be entitled to feel hard done by.

They are allowed to continue until (I presume annual) license expires - don't see how they'd have the right to feel 'hard done by'

McTigs

The proposal to ban the rickshaws was brought forward by Michael Crowe. That is all i need to know to know they are being banned for reasons other than what the official line is. Probably being banned because they don't directly benefit him or someone who knows him.

antoobrien

McTigs wrote: »

The proposal to ban the rickshaws was brought forward by Michael Crowe. That is all i need to know to know they are being banned for reasons other than what the official line is. Probably being banned because they don't directly benefit him or someone who knows him.

I wonder if that's the case for all of them, including those who supported it when introduced? I'm only asking because it was a unanimous vote.

Cllr Niall McNelis said that he had initially been in favour of the introduction of rickshaws, but that operators with licenses are being damaged by those who do not.

Does the fact that Crowe is the chair of the transport committee have nothing to do with it either?

The biggest problem seems to be that they aren't following the byelaws and the fact that they are using the pedestrianised streets in the center of town.

Director of Services Ciaran Hayes said that rickshaw operators had failed to demonstrate they can operate within the terms of the byelaws under which they were licensed, and also acknowledged that the existing byelaws permitting their use on pedestrianised streets is in conflict with the general prohibition of cyclists on the streets.

There's also a bit missing from the online version of the Senitinel article, referring to the ricks mounting footpaths and forcing pedestrians out of their way.

snubbleste

Obligatory reference required

Iwannahurl

Director of Services Ciaran Hayes said that rickshaw operators had failed to demonstrate they can operate within the terms of the byelaws under which they were licensed, and also acknowledged that the existing byelaws permitting their use on pedestrianised streets is in conflict with the general prohibition of cyclists on the streets.

antoobrien wrote: »

ricks mounting footpaths and forcing pedestrians out of their way.

Funnily enough, one of the most common causes of pedestrians being forced out of the way is the obstruction of footpaths by motor vehicles.

Funnier enough, the same City Council routinely ignores such violation of bye-laws, and even portrays it as "common sense" when they feel the need.

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Funnily enough, one of the most common causes of pedestrians being forced out of the way is the obstruction of footpaths by motor vehicles.

Funnier enough, the same City Council routinely ignores such violation of bye-laws, and even portrays it as "common sense" when they feel the need.

On shop St?

Iwannahurl

Pedestrians are pedestrians, and bye-laws are bye-laws, everywhere.

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Pedestrians are pedestrians, and bye-laws are bye-laws, everywhere.

The only motor vehicles on Shop St since pedestrianisation in (I think) 1999, delivery vehicles excepted - have been garda & council vehicles.

Mal-Adjusted

This was just on the radio now. It seems a bit crazy, tbh. Just going to force people out of jobs...

BhoscaCapall

Shop St isn't that narrow. If you have trouble avoiding a large rickshaw then maybe going outside without a carer and a helmet isn't for you.

inisboffin

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

Shop St isn't that narrow. If you have trouble avoiding a large rickshaw then maybe going outside without a carer and a helmet isn't for you.

I think the issue for those against is that you shouldn't *have* to jump quickly out of the way of something on a pedestrian street! Most of the rickshaw drivers are ok but there are some for whom 'near misses' are part if the 'experience' and know they might get a bigger tip for a 'thrilling' journey.
They are in control of the bikes a lot but when they are hurtling toward you it's difficult for older or non-Galway people to*trust* the fact they'll go around you.

Pity they're being banned, but it's probably because of those who are a nuisance.

Iwannahurl

I'm extremely indifferent on the subject of rickshaws, but I find it difficult to see consistency in the enforcement of laws relating to the protection of pedestrians and general order on the streets.

The Council (and AGS) seem very quick to enforce some laws but not others.

Take the comments attributed to Cllr Padraig Conneely, who is not someone I would normally be in agreement with:

Cllr Padraig Conneely said the problems with the rickshaws are not all the fault of the drivers and that such vehicles work well in other cities but that the behaviour and attitudes of customers in Galway who are “out of their minds with alcohol” means that they cannot work here.

Compare that with what Cllr Billy Cameron is reported to have said:

The introduction of rickshaws to Galway City’s medieval streets has proven to be a “failed experiment” that is detracting rather than adding to Galway’s reputation as a “party city”.

That’s according to Cllr Billy Cameron, who made the comment at Monday’s council meeting, when councillors unanimously voted to amend existing byelaws and ban the pedal-powered vehicles from the city centre.

Rickshaws might work well in a city where traffic law and public order are highly valued, and where the streets are not filled with drunks on a regular basis. Of course clamping down on the booze culture, including illegal drinking in public, would be unpopular as well as possibly damaging to the "party city" sales pitch, and might lead to law enforcers having to work a little harder.

I have found the Council and AGS remarkably slow to protect vulnerable road users on other streets, including mediaeval ones. For example, what has happened with that supposed "zero tolerance" parking enforcement policy approved by the Councillors back in January?

ScumLord

I could see an argument for banning them on shop street during the day when the street is packed with people aimlessly walking around without any awareness of what's going on around them.

At night I don't really see too much of a problem, most of the crowd has gone making it easier to go up and down the street.

Don't see the point in banning them on public roads within the city.

biko

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I'm extremely indifferent on the subject of rickshaws

This thread is about the rickshaws and the ban on them _only_, let's focus on that topic.

Fey!

ScumLord wrote: »

Don't see the point in banning them on public roads within the city.

At night the biggest problem I've seen with them on public roads in a lack of lighting, especially in places like Wolfe Tone Bridge, O'Briens Bridge, Spanish Arcade, Ravens Terrace, Market Street, Middle Street and Flood Street; basically the city centre. They are all dark areas where these things can't be seen.

However, the same goes for a large number of cyclists around the city who have no regard for their own safety, including one of our city councillors (who has had this pointed out to her after she ran a red light at the fire station and nearly got squashed like a bug). With the rickshaws it isn't just their own safety but the safety of their passengers, too.

Unfortunately neither the council or the Gardai will do anything about enforcement for either group.

The councillor in question had it suggested to her that she might use her position to start a "Cycle Safely" campaign during the dark winter months seeing as she likes to be seen as green and on her bike but refused to do so, and still carries on with the same level of ignorance toward other road users.

Iwannahurl

ScumLord wrote: »

I could see an argument for banning them on shop street during the day when the street is packed with people aimlessly walking around without any awareness of what's going on around them.

At night I don't really see too much of a problem, most of the crowd has gone making it easier to go up and down the street.

Don't see the point in banning them on public roads within the city.

I think you'll find the aimless wandering is at night, whereas during the day it's more relaxed strolling, window shopping, chatting, soaking up the ambience etc.

Are there rickshaws about during the day? I can't recall having seen them often, and I'm almost never around the city centre at night.

BhoscaCapall

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I think you'll find the aimless wandering is at night, whereas during the day it's more relaxed strolling, window shopping, chatting, soaking up the ambience etc.

That is aimless wandering. Certainly a lot more aimless than walking to a club/pub or walking home/taxi rank.

ScumLord

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I think you'll find the aimless wandering is at night, whereas during the day it's more relaxed strolling, window shopping, chatting, soaking up the ambience etc.

I don't know, I've found that relaxed people walking down shop street have no awareness of what's going on around them. Many could be tourists marvelling at our medieval streets. At night the rickshaws have more space to avoid pedestrians.

Are there rickshaws about during the day? I can't recall having seen them often, and I'm almost never around the city centre at night.

I'm not to sure about the day time but I've definitely seen them at night. I assumed that's when they do most of their work.

inisboffin

Aimless wandering by day, and drunk stumbling by night so?
Either way its only going to get more packed as the summer goes on. I'm amazed there haven't been multiple faces with wheel marks already!
Agree they'd be grand on roads once well lit though.

BhoscaCapall

What is the bleedin point of them if they have to stick to roads? I would wager their most popular fare is down Shop St. Who is going to get them if they have to go via the docks and then drop you down by the Sparch or vice versa?

Seriously when did everyone become such a simpering herd of whingebags? It's embarrassing. I'm surprised nobody has gone for the "but what about all of Galway's wheelchair users who might not be able to get out the way!!!!" card yet.

Mrs OBumble

Some of the used to be around in the daytime too. I think that disappeared when the licensing regieme was introduced (even though they'e not all licensed) - couldn't be 100% sure 'cos I'm not around the city-centre so much during the day any more.