Acupuncture - Sports Injury

Turkish1

Hey guys,

Just looking to see if anyone has used acupuncture to help resolve a sports injury. I have a niggling hamstring injury that is being caused by tightness/spasms. Have tried sports massage, strengthening and rehab and nothing working.

Has anyone found benefit to trying acupuncture as I believe it is supposed to be good for releasing tension/tightness etc. frustrated at this stage and will try anything.

Any help appreciate.

Burkatron

Turkish1 wrote: »

Hey guys,

Just looking to see if anyone has used acupuncture to help resolve a sports injury. I have a niggling hamstring injury that is being caused by tightness/spasms. Have tried sports massage, strengthening and rehab and nothing working.

Has anyone found benefit to trying acupuncture as I believe it is supposed to be good for releasing tension/tightness etc. frustrated at this stage and will try anything.

Any help appreciate.

It worked for me recently! I had a bad hip & back injury for 6 + months! I went to a number of reputable musculo skeletal specialists & they only managed to get me to maybe 85% at best! I was having major problems with work, I'd have to foam roll 2 an hour before just to get me through classes. Anyway, I gave accupuncture a try & in 1 session he'd relieved my back pain after 2 sessions I was near 100% Since then I've had no problems & my numbers are finally going back up to pre injury!

So in short, yep, It can help! Ofcourse it depends on the injury, how severe it is, how chronic/acute it is etc & the actual practitioner!

swededmonkey

same as the last post, I've had numerous lower back injuries and it has helped immensely. I'd recommend the physio company on baggot st. they're great to deal with and not too expensive. I think it was about €45 for a 45 minute session that ended up closer to an hour and had some physio work done on my back as well

ecoli

Have had a few injuries treated by dry needling. Similar concept as accupunture (using needles to work on breaking down muscle adhesions) however the difference comes in the focus of placement of needles. Accupunture deals with meridian lines or "pressure points" where as dry needling works around Trigger points withing a muscle (common points within a muscle that adhesion build up in that give off particular referral pain patterns)

The latter is the newer technique but I have found it to be very effective however be careful in finding someone with particular skill in this field. Dry needling has become a bit of a buzz word when it comes to treatment over the last 5-10 years with more and more people looking to get it done as they see it as a miracle cure. As such many practitioners have done courses to be able to provide this service to deal with the demand however personally I would look to someone who is well practiced in this technique with a good record and a deep understanding of trigger points

Gbear

If you have an injury then see a doctor or a physio.

Acupuncture has been generally shown to perform no better than a placebo.

There are no such thing as energy meridians.

Danye

Gbear wrote: »

If you have an injury then see a doctor or a physio.

Acupuncture has been generally shown to perform no better than a placebo.

There are no such thing as energy meridians.

If it works on people who cares if it's a placebo? It works!

Some of the doctors / physio's I've gone to regarding an injury have been generally useless.

ecoli

Gbear wrote: »

If you have an injury then see a doctor or a physio.

Acupuncture has been generally shown to perform no better than a placebo.

There are no such thing as energy meridians.

While this aspect has been questioned the bodies reaction (release of endorphins and serum cortisol) shows more than a placebo effect

Also it is interesting to note that 80% of Trigger points coincide with locations on the meridian lines. A lot of research has gone into trigger points and a lot of the basis for this is a lot more sound than the traditional acupuncture approach however in doing so it lends more credibility to acupuncture

Gbear

Danye wrote: »

If it works on people who cares if it's a placebo? It works!

Some of the doctors / physio's I've gone to regarding an injury have been generally useless.

I'm not sure if you understand what the placebo effect means but if a treatment's only effect is the placebo that means that it doesn't work.
If the placebo effect caused your headache to go away after waving a cat around your head that doesn't mean that cat waving cures headaches.

There is evidence that acupuncture has relatively minor effects when treating chronic pain.

But for most treatments it performs no better than sham acupuncture (which includes performing acupuncture in sites that aren't normally associated with acupuncture, using fake needles that don't pierce the skin and so on) and the effects can be explained by the placebo.

A painkiller, on the other hand, has the placebo effect of taking a pill (2 pills has a stronger effect than 1, an injection has an even stronger placebo effect again), in addition to actually doing something to your body.

ecoli wrote: »

While this aspect has been questioned the bodies reaction (release of endorphins and serum cortisol) shows more than a placebo effect

Also it is interesting to note that 80% of Trigger points coincide with locations on the meridian lines. A lot of research has gone into trigger points and a lot of the basis for this is a lot more sound than the traditional acupuncture approach however in doing so it lends more credibility to acupuncture

I doubt there's much to "trigger points" given that sham acupuncture is about as effective as actual acupuncture.

Having a look around there's not a huge amount of good quality evidence either way but there's essentially none for anything other than chronic pain - particularly with regard to migraine, neck pain, lower back pain and a few others.


The main problem isn't acupuncture itself but getting it at the expense of getting actual medicine. Don't go to an acupuncturist OP, go to a doctor.

ecoli

Gbear wrote: »

The main problem isn't acupuncture itself but getting it at the expense of getting actual medicine. Don't go to an acupuncturist OP, go to a doctor.

Why a doctor? Very few deal with muscular damage caused by sports related activities on a regular basis.

I am not saying doctors should not be first port of call when you have particular symptoms etc but rather look for someone who has a good track record in treating your particular ailment (in this case a sports related muscular issue)

You wouldn't bring a car to an airplane mechanic to get it fixed (analogy a bit extreme but you get the drift)

Gbear

I was going to say healthcare professional but I decided not to because that includes pharmacists and that's probably not what OP needs.

Yes, go to a physio.

But the important part is to not go to an acupuncturist.

ecoli

Gbear wrote: »

I was going to say healthcare professional but I decided not to because that includes pharmacists and that's probably not what OP needs.

Yes, go to a physio.

But the important part is to not go to an acupuncturist.

I think you have the wrong impression of acupuncture. Most are also physical therapists, physio's etc that simply incorporate this technique as a form of treatment.

I am agreeing with you to seek a health care professional but the two are not mutually exclusive

Gbear

ecoli wrote: »

I think you have the wrong impression of acupuncture. Most are also physical therapists, physio's etc that simply incorporate this technique as a form of treatment.

I am agreeing with you to seek a health care professional but the two are not mutually exclusive

Some doctors prescribe homeopathy. That doesn't mean they ought to or that it's a valid treatment. The same applies with pharmacies stocking homeopathy, magnetic bands and other pseudoscientific waffle.

Although acupuncture has a better grounding in science than outright cons like homeopathy, the evidence is pretty much non-existant for a lot of the claims they make.
For the others it probably isn't a cost-effective way to get treatment.

ecoli

Gbear wrote: »

Some doctors prescribe homeopathy. That doesn't mean they ought to or that it's a valid treatment. The same applies with pharmacies stocking homeopathy, magnetic bands and other pseudoscientific waffle.

Although acupuncture has a better grounding in science than outright cons like homeopathy, the evidence is pretty much non-existant for a lot of the claims they make.
For the others it probably isn't a cost-effective way to get treatment.

What would you consider an effective treatment? Seeing as the many medical professionals feel that techniques such as acupuncture/ dry needling yield good results.

You also have to weigh up the cost factor of other treatments such as painkillers or cortisone injections (effectively any pain management approach). These will not get rid of the cause and can in fact weaken tendons, ligament and bone to have more long term ill effects

Surely it is at least worth a consideration with less invasive treatment if the health professional you are going to see's it as a viable treatment. If not then what is the point in going to that person in the first place if you don't feel this is the approach you want to take. Amputating a leg will get rid of toe pain but does not mean there are alternatives to this.

Again I would stress to the OP here (as this conversation has digressed). If you wish to try this approach my advice would be find a health professional who has experience in treating similar injuries and has a good reputation in terms of their acupuncture/ dry needling skill

Personally I have found dry needling to be beneficial to both myself and many others struggling with muscular niggles/injuries

trishasaffron

The acupuncturist and homeopath I go to is also a fully qualified conventional Irish doctor. So I suppose we can at least agree that there are different views out there even from those trained in conventional medicine.

Gbear

ecoli wrote: »

What would you consider an effective treatment? Seeing as the many medical professionals feel that techniques such as acupuncture/ dry needling yield good results.

You also have to weigh up the cost factor of other treatments such as painkillers or cortisone injections (effectively any pain management approach). These will not get rid of the cause and can in fact weaken tendons, ligament and bone to have more long term ill effects

I'm not a physiotherapist. I can't suggest one therapy or another.
I'm merely advocating visiting a qualified healthcare professional (as opposed to "Dr China" or something like that) and being extremely skeptical of any treatment that doesn't have a robust grounding in science.
While the treatment of chroic pain appears to be something acupuncture is suitable for (even then it's a debate about price versus other options and so on) I didn't think that that's specifically what the OP was after.

Surely it is at least worth a consideration with less invasive treatment if the health professional you are going to see's it as a viable treatment. If not then what is the point in going to that person in the first place if you don't feel this is the approach you want to take. Amputating a leg will get rid of toe pain but does not mean there are alternatives to this.

There's an opportunity cost with everything and obviously acupuncture costs money too. If it was free then yes, there'd be no downside, but given that evidence for acupuncture is non existent for some ailments and only seems to have a use in chronic pain I think that the OP would be wasting their time/money.

Personally I have found dry needling to be beneficial to both myself and many others struggling with muscular niggles/injuries

I think it's Mariane Finucan who claims to have had her migraine healed by some form of alternative medicine. My dad also had migraine while growing up and it just went away when he was in his early 20's. Is doing nothing as good as alternative medicine?

If you're trying to make an informed decision anecdotal evidence is no evidence at all.

trishasaffron wrote: »

The acupuncturist and homeopath I go to is also a fully qualified conventional Irish doctor. So I suppose we can at least agree that there are different views out there even from those trained in conventional medicine.

This rather makes my point about doctors not being immune from bad practice.

While there's certainly an element of doubt about the benefits of acupuncture, there is no controversy about homeopathy. It's just total nonsense and that isn't "just my opinion" but as factually correct as any statement can be.

I won't digress as to why here but have a gander at the "Evidence" section on the wiki article about it. It covers most things. Most notable is that the laws of physics and chemistry would have to be torn up for it to work.

ecoli

Gbear wrote: »

I'm not a physiotherapist. I can't suggest one therapy or another.
I'm merely advocating visiting a qualified healthcare professional (as opposed to "Dr China" or something like that) and being extremely skeptical of any treatment that doesn't have a robust grounding in science.

This I would agree with in terms of going to see a qualified health care professional rather than you previous statement of simply don't go see an acupuncturist

Gbear wrote: »

There's an opportunity cost with everything and obviously acupuncture costs money too. If it was free then yes, there'd be no downside, but given that evidence for acupuncture is non existent for some ailments and only seems to have a use in chronic pain I think that the OP would be wasting their time/money.

There is plenty of anecdotal evidence which is exactly what the OP was looking for originally having pursued more "conventional" approaches

Has anyone found benefit to trying acupuncture as I believe it is supposed to be good for releasing tension/tightness etc. frustrated at this stage and will try anything.

Gbear wrote: »

I think it's Mariane Finucan who claims to have had her migraine healed by some form of alternative medicine. My dad also had migraine while growing up and it just went away when he was in his early 20's. Is doing nothing as good as alternative medicine?

If you're trying to make an informed decision anecdotal evidence is no evidence at all.

Would depend on the ailment again but since my references were muscle overuse injuries there is a commonality to the OP which is why they become relevant to a point. In that incidence rest would not have been the option (personally I am not a fan of simple rest as it does not resolve the issue but rather treatments should facilitate the body to heal itself)

Gbear wrote: »

This rather makes my point about doctors not being immune from bad practice.

I will agree and the same goes for all health care professions. While the techniques used are important the application of these techniques has a bearing on the effectiveness of treatment. Just because a physio is qualified does not make them any better than anyone else unless they have the skills to apply their knowledge effectively. I have been to good and bad chartered physios just like I have gone to some amazing and terrible sports massage therapists. The piece of paper that makes the difference between these two professions in no way reflected their levels of ability to treat my injuries

fusion19

Just been too the physio as I have a match tomorrow. Going I had a niggling injury with my achilles tendon which was quite bad a few weeks ago but has since gradually improved. Basically I went to see where I stood in terms of match fitness, personally I felt I was fit to play but not quite 100%. I received acupuncture on my calf as its what controls the achilles and I can safely say now I definately wont be playing tomorrow as I can barely crawl not to mind walk or run.

ecoli

fusion19 wrote: »

Just been too the physio as I have a match tomorrow. Going I had a niggling injury with my achilles tendon which was quite bad a few weeks ago but has since gradually improved. Basically I went to see where I stood in terms of match fitness, personally I felt I was fit to play but not quite 100%. I received acupuncture on my calf as its what controls the achilles and I can safely say now I definately wont be playing tomorrow as I can barely crawl not to mind walk or run.

Did you let them know you planned to play the day after or did they explain that usual recovery time can be up to 72 hours?

fusion19

ecoli wrote: »

Did you let them know you planned to play the day after or did they explain that usual recovery time can be up to 72 hours?

They knew I had a match tomorrow