Lexus GS450H Hybrid

Thanks to mickdw he's got me thinking about how much I would like a Lexus GS 450H.

740 to tax a 08+ for the previous model and only 390 tax on the current model.

Fuel consumption is 49 mpg for the new one and 35-38 for the older one.

Not bad for a car that can accelerate 0-62 mph in 5.9 seconds.

The new one's engine has 288 HP and 197 from the electric motor, I didn't know it was so powerful, making me think that if the older model could be converted to LPG I would seriously consider buying one!

Pity they don't have a plug in version.

Maybe there is some fun coming back to motoring ?

I know die hard petrol fans will still complain, but still a good car. Will never match the Prius for economy but if they only made a plug in!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mEJAGw_nNU

Leonard Hofstadter

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks to mickdw he's got me thinking about how much I would like a Lexus GS 450H.

740 to tax a 08+ for the previous model and only 390 tax on the current model.

Fuel consumption is 49 mpg for the new one and 35-38 for the older one.

Not bad for a car that can accelerate 0-62 mph in 5.9 seconds.

The new one's engine has 288 HP and 197 from the electric motor, I didn't know it was so powerful, making me think that if the older model could be converted to LPG I would seriously consider buying one!

Pity they don't have a plug in version.

Maybe there is some fun coming back to motoring ?

I know die hard petrol fans will still complain, but still a good car. Will never match the Prius for economy but if they only made a plug in!

I thought they couldn't be converted to LPG because of the fact they have both direct and indirect injection?

Apart from that, the Japs are so far ahead of the rest on hybrids it's almost embarrassing to be European. Everyone else is now seriously looking at hybrids, Merc are going to have for the very first time a choice of hybrid models with the new S-class. The one thing I feel that lets down hybrids from Japan is the fact that they all have CVT gearboxes. I just don't like that 'rubber band' or slipping clutch feeling when you want to try and press on with them. If they had a proper torque converter automatic they would be much better.

I also think it's a great pity that nobody else has done what Honda did with their IMA system, in particular the ability to have a hybrid with a manual gearbox. That would be the perfect solution for many sports cars. I know it's less sophisticated than a Prius system, but it's cheaper and still brings about impressive on-paper mpg figures. And it allows the possibility of a manual gearbox.

HMM there is a hybrid concept (or plug in ?) that has the manual function and feck, I can't remember now.

But the GS450H can be converted to LPG. And if you had the new model would be like getting 70 odd mpg in diesel or petrol with half the power or less!

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=66561&page=2

I would imagine it's a lot easier to combine the power with a CVT, the Prius cvt is very simple too.

mickdw

A converted gs450h would be very interesting.
The car has a few drawbacks that dont exactly make it a drivers car but its a very very very quick car.

The Bishop Basher

I toyed with the idea of buying one last year. The test drive was a total anticlimax. Didn't like the handling at all especially in something so quick. The acceleration is sweet though and they come with tons of gadgets.

Matt Simis

captainspeed wrote: »

Apart from that, the Japs are so far ahead of the rest on hybrids it's almost embarrassing to be European.

A strange comment, Hybrids are one of several approaches, but far from the answer. Most Euro research is on Petrol and especially Diesel technology paths. The Euros have demo'ed Hybrids (lets be honest here, an electric motor and a power sharing gearbox is not that hard) but the Jap marques have made little recent progress with the mainstream Diesel and Petrol engine design of today and near future.

mickdw

mickdw wrote: »

A converted gs450h would be very interesting.
The car has a few drawbacks that dont exactly make it a drivers car but its a very very very quick car.

It would certainly leave the Prius standing that's for sure, however to us doing high mileage, it would be twice as expensive to run.

Still I don't know if I would ever spend 20K on a 6 year old car.

That would get me a 2nd hand Leaf and cost almost nothing to run! :pac:

But it's interesting to think the new 450 gets 45-49 mpg, on LPG @81 C/L would be like petrol or diesel @around 80 odd mpg.

No way you will pick up one of those for any affordable money though for around 4-5 years.

Matt Simis

Matt Simis wrote: »

A strange comment, Hybrids are one of several approaches, but far from the answer. Most Euro research is on Petrol and especially Diesel technology paths. The Euros have demo'ed Hybrids (lets be honest here, an electric motor and a power sharing gearbox is not that hard) but the Jap marques have made little recent progress with the mainstream Diesel and Petrol engine design of today and near future.

I think the Euro manufacturers apart from Renault are waiting to see what the public buy and what they don't.

Hydrogen is too expensive to make and fuel cells have a limited life, in a few years batteries will be more than good enough and the costs will come down a hell of a lot.

Just think if a lot of people buy the Tesla Model S in Europe and in 8 years think of the performance you would have ? faster to 60 than a 4.0L BMW.

In the U.S they give people the option to buy a new battery for 8,000 dollars and in 8 years they will replace it. And the new owner can get the battery also.

8,000 USD for a 60 kw/hr battery ? that's insane! So I guess in a way they are saying that that's what it will cost in 8 years ? who knows.

colm_mcm

Boot space is already tiny and the standard car just about fits a space saver, I'd be curious to see what size tank you'd actually be able to fit in there.

colm_mcm

colm_mcm wrote: »

Boot space is already tiny and the standard car just about fits a space saver, I'd be curious to see what size tank you'd actually be able to fit in there.

Could probably fit one in the spare wheel well ? maybe 50 odd litres. If it is a space saver wheel then probably less.

colm_mcm

You won't get a full size wheel in because of the batteries. You kinda have to angle the space saver and push it under the batteries then bolt it in.

HMMM I didn't know that.

There is supposed to be a lot more space in the new one with the way they positioned the battery.

colm_mcm

The batteries in the original model take up loads of room, it doesn't look like the car was designed to have batteries.
One thing I like about my civic is that the fuel tank is under the front seats


This means there's a load of space under the rear seats.

If I was designing a hybrid, under the front seats is where I'd put either the batteries or the fuel tank.

ofcork

Merc have a hybrid e class either launched or about to E400 i believe a 3.5 litre petrol with electric motor.

colm_mcm

colm_mcm wrote: »

The batteries in the original model take up loads of room, it doesn't look like the car was designed to have batteries.
One thing I like about my civic is that the fuel tank is under the front seats


This means there's a load of space under the rear seats.

If I was designing a hybrid, under the front seats is where I'd put either the batteries or the fuel tank.

Were we talking about the Civic or Lexus ?

The leaf has it's battery in the chassis. Though headroom in the rear is a little tight.

colm_mcm

Deleted User wrote: »

Were we talking about the Civic or Lexus ?

Just making the point that the original gs450h isn't that well laid out.

colm_mcm

colm_mcm wrote: »

Just making the point that the original gs450h isn't that well laid out.

Ah gotcha,

The new one is supposed to have more boot space, so they must have put the battery somewhere else or used a smaller one.

mullingar

Deleted User wrote: »

HMM there is a hybrid concept (or plug in ?) that has the manual function and feck, I can't remember now.

But the GS450H can be converted to LPG. And if you had the new model would be like getting 70 odd mpg in diesel or petrol with half the power or less!

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=66561&page=2

I would imagine it's a lot easier to combine the power with a CVT, the Prius cvt is very simple too.

Eh no. Not conventionally anyway.

A RX400H uses the 2GR-FE, not the 2GR-FSE as found in the GS450H

That S makes a huge difference as it means a dual injection system, one direct injector and one indirect injector per cylinder. The FE engine uses tbe conventional non-direct system.

mickdw

Just saw this.
What kind of a sick individual would do this to the car:
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/4531270

colm_mcm

mickdw wrote: »

Just saw this.
What kind of a sick individual would do this to the car:
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/4531270

Luckily its just a wrap.

drunkmonkey

Mick when you say Fuel consumption is 49 mpg for the new one, do you mean over 08 or a 2013 model?
After having an is220d i'd take the mpg claims with a pinch of salt but if you could even get 35 out of it i'd be impressed.

mickdw

I didnt mention anything about 49 mpg I dont think.
Realistically after driving an 08 model for a few days, high 20s is what it returned for me and Im sure 35 mpg would be possible if driven as a hybrid should. Given the power it has, 35 would be excellent imo.

drunkmonkey

Sorry it was mad lad in his first post I looked again, what your reporting sounds about right. 49 was the stuff of fairytales.

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

Fuel consumption is 49 mpg for the new one and 35-38 for the older one.

Not bad for a car that can accelerate 0-62 mph in 5.9 seconds.

Do that kinda acceleration regularly and your petrol mpg will be a single figure I betya

mickdw

unkel wrote: »

Do that kinda acceleration regularly and your petrol mpg will be a single figure I betya

I got one for a few days as I was considering buying one and it did a hell of alot of full throttle acceleration both from a standstill and at speed and as I say, it returned high 20s when this was combined with a 50% driving across the country.

Tragedy

Caranddriver tested the 2013 US GS450h and it returned 32MPG imperial. They got 24mpg with the 2007 version.

So ~28mpg for the older version and 35+ for the newer model for a slightly less hardcore driver?

Interestinly, C&D recordering 24mpg long term with the last model Jaguar XJR (400hp, supercharged) - I know which I'd choose

Tea 1000

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Sorry it was mad lad in his first post I looked again, what your reporting sounds about right. 49 was the stuff of fairytales.

It's the new one that they claim 49mpg on the extra urban run.
45mpg combined. To be fair, Autocar never match claimed figures from any cars they test, but their report on the older 450h said that they did match the claimed 35mpg, although they had to drive it fairly gingerly.

Tragedy wrote: »

Caranddriver tested the 2013 US GS450h and it returned 32MPG imperial. They got 24mpg with the 2007 version.

So ~28mpg for the older version and 35+ for the newer model for a slightly less hardcore driver?

Interestinly, C&D recordering 24mpg long term with the last model Jaguar XJR (400hp, supercharged) - I know which I'd choose

Yes, but if you had €60k to buy a car, then you do have enough for a 450h but you don't have enough for an XJR - not by half!! And sure f**k it, if we're going that far I'd have an E63 AMG!

And seriously if you can afford either of those cars, would you give a toss about fuel economy ?

Tea 1000

Deleted User wrote: »

And seriously if you can afford either of those cars, would you give a toss about fuel economy ?

Nope!

Matt Simis

Deleted User wrote: »

And seriously if you can afford either of those cars, would you give a toss about fuel economy ?

You/people most definitely will worry about MPG when sold as used in a few years.

Tragedy

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Yes, but if you had €60k to buy a car, then you do have enough for a 450h but you don't have enough for an XJR - not by half!! And sure f**k it, if we're going that far I'd have an E63 AMG!

I'm talking from the point of view of a second hand proposition (although to be fair, in the US without the VRT system the XJR was only €10,000 more than the GS450h).

And also correcting the inflated MPG figures bandied about on thread.