The how and why of racing?

walshb

RayCun wrote: »

why not?

edited to add
3 years ago you timed yourself running a mile
last year you timed yourself running a k
so...?

Yes, never a race against others in an official capacity. Why not? I just never got the urge to compete in running. More a time trialer'.

I run a lot. Well, what I think is a lot.:)

I am running the 4 miler in Dunboyne in two weeks. Can't wait. Hope to be in the 26 mins category!

rom

walshb wrote: »

Yes, never a race against others in an official capacity. Why not? I just never got the urge to compete in running. More a time trialer'.

I run a lot. Well, what I think is a lot.:)

I am running the 4 miler in Dunboyne in two weeks. Can't wait. Hope to be in the 26 mins category!

What's the best you have done for 4M on your own ?

walshb

rom wrote: »

What's the best you have done for 4M on your own ?

That quetion is yet to be answered. I am training at the moment and I have ran 4 miles in about 28 mins flat. That wasn't me pushing it hard. I also wore sweat gear during that run. So, I am guessing that in a race when I commit I can go sub 27. I just hate pushing it. Hate the feeling afterwards. It's hell. I hope to run 6 min 40 per mile for 3 miles, and if I feel okay I will put the foot down for the last mile. Maybe a 6 min 30. That would give me a low 26 min time.

BTW, I have run an 18:57 5 k. That was mid last year.

hardCopy

walshb wrote: »

That quetion is yet to be answered. I am training at the moment and I have ran 4 miles in about 28 mins flat. That wasn't me pushing it hard. I also wore sweat gear during that run. So, I am guessing that in a race when I commit I can go sub 27. I just hate pushing it. Hate the feeling afterwards. It's hell. I hope to run 6 min 40 per mile for 3 miles, and if I feel okay I will put the foot down for the last mile. Maybe a 6 min 30. That would give me a low 26 min time.

BTW, I have run an 18:57 5 k. That was mid last year.

I find that hell feeling after pushing it is totally different after a race, the lactic acid is washed down by the feeling of accomplishment. You can't beat a new PB, and I never feel it's a real PB unless I do it in a race.

walshb

hardCopy wrote: »

I find that hell feeling after pushing it is totally different after a race, the lactic acid is washed down by the feeling of accomplishment. You can't beat a new PB, and I never feel it's a real PB unless I do it in a race.

I hope you're right, because I know when I ran 18:57 for my 5 K I felt dead, and I don't want to feel like that again, hence my not running a hard and "flat" out 5 K since. My strategy in Dunboyne will be a steady and paced 3miles and then hopefully my legs, heart and lungs have it to alloow a step up for the last mile.

rom

walshb wrote: »

I hope you're right, because I know when I ran 18:57 for my 5 K I felt dead, and I don't want to feel like that again, hence my not running a hard and "flat" out 5 K since. My strategy in Dunboyne will be a steady and paced 3miles and then hopefully my legs, heart and lungs have it to alloow a step up for the last mile.

With that 5k time would expect to at 24:40 for 4 Miles ?

walshb

rom wrote: »

With that 5k time would expect to at 24:40 for 4 Miles ?

Probably, but I don't see myself putting in that kind of strenuous effort. First race. I want to enjoy it a little bit. After it I think I can then assess my performance and tiredness and then make a decision to go lower. Cowardly it sounds, I know. I suppose it's a bit of fear. If I try too hard I die and fall over the line?

4 miles is 6.43 Kms. Based off my 5 K time of 3 mins 46 or so per Km I should be able to get to a sub 25 time with real effort and some extra training.

rom

walshb wrote: »

Probably, but I don't see myself putting in that kind of strenuous effort. First race. I want to enjoy it a little bit. After it I think I can then assess my performance and tiredness and then make a decision to go lower. Cowardly it sounds, I know. I suppose it's a bit of fear. If I try too hard I die and fall over the line?

4 miles is 6.43 Kms. Based off my 5 K time of 3 mins 46 or so per Km I should be able to get to a sub 25 time with real effort and some extra training.

Sure we all have to die sometime

walshb

wrstan wrote: »

While no one "has" to race, I agree with Pisco Sour: why would you run if you never raced? I"

This is odd. How about to keep fit, to challenge yourself and to stay healthy. Or, god forbid, you enjoy running and the outdoors that goes with it.

wrstan

walshb wrote: »

This is odd. How about to keep fit, to challenge yourself and to stay healthy. Or, god forbid, you enjoy running and the outdoors that goes with it.

All of those things are true for me too. I enjoy the act of running, the headspace it gives me, the health benefits, the outdoors etc. etc. But racing adds so much more to that. I think the quote from Jack Daniels sums it up perfectly - racing is the ultimate expression of my running!

walshb

wrstan wrote: »

All of those things are true for me too. I enjoy the act of running, the headspace it gives me, the health benefits, the outdoors etc. etc. But racing adds so much more to that. I think the quote from Jack Daniels sums it up perfectly - racing is the ultimate expression of my running!

But for so many in a lot of races they are never going to win or figure in the top 5 or top 10 or top 20. So, who are they racing? Themselves. An alone time trial is just as sufficient. Many are not close to elite level. Many aren't even club level. So, who are they competing against? Who cares! Yes, enter the race to be part of the group and event, but I don't think coming in in 23/24/25 mins for 5 k, for example, is somehow more real because it happened in a race event as opposed to a run by yourself some evening.

BTW,my view may well change on March 24th in Dunboyne.

RayCun

walshb wrote: »

So, who are they racing? Themselves. An alone time trial is just as sufficient.

You wouldn't say that if you'd ever been in a race. It's nothing like a time trial

Ososlo

walshb wrote: »

But for so many in a lot of races they are never going to win or figure in the top 5 or top 10 or top 20. So, who are they racing? Themselves. An alone time trial is just as sufficient. Many are not close to elite level. Many aren't even club level. So, who are they competing against? Who cares! Yes, enter the race to be part of the group and event, but I don't think coming in in 23/24/25 mins for 5 k, for example, is somehow more real because it happened in a race event as opposed to a run by yourself some evening.

BTW,my view may well change on March 24th in Dunboyne.

you will NEVER run as fast in a self-timed time trial as you will in a race. Of course the majority of us on boards ar are racing against ourselves and maybe some peers. What's wrong with that? I'm not at club level and I don't care who cares! I care! I don't ever race just to be part of a group or event. I RACE TO RACE for me! And to try and beat a few people I run with.

walshb

Ososlo wrote: »

you will NEVER run as fast in a self-timed time trial as you will in a race. Of course the majority of us on boards ar are racing against ourselves and maybe some peers. What's wrong with that? I'm not at club level and I don't care who cares! I care! I don't ever race just to be part of a group or event. I RACE TO RACE for me! And to try and beat a few people I run with.

There is nothing wrong with entering a race and competing against yourself. I never said there was something wrong. I challenged the view that "why run if you aren't in a race." A lot of the races have people simply making up the numbers. They may as well be alone running in a park. They aren't racing anyone, unless they have their own little agreement with friends. I also don't agree that your best times happen in a race.

My good friend posted a 36 min 10 k time in a race. He recently bettered that to 34:34 on a lone run. He wasn't under pressure, or nervous with possible race nerves. He could just relax and go for it. He mentioned this too. Look what he achieved. Look at David Rudisha. I bet he doesn't need 7 other men in a race to allow him to post sub 1 mins 42.

Similar to snooker palyers who record many 147s in practice. Rarely get them in a match. There are factors in competitive scenarios that can hinder as well as help.

walshb

RayCun wrote: »

You wouldn't say that if you'd ever been in a race. It's nothing like a time trial

I am sure it's not identical to a time trial. But it's still running. This is not my point. I never said they were alike, or identical.

Ososlo

walshb wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with entering a race and competing against yourself. I never said there was something wrong. I challenged the view that "why run if you aren't in a race." A lot of the races have people simply making up the numbers. They may as well be alone running in a park. They aren't racing anyone, unless they have their own little agreement with friends. I also don't agree that your best times happen in a race.

My good friend posted a 36 min 10 k time in a race. He recently bettered that to 34:34 on a lone run. He wasn't under pressure, or nervous with possible race nerves. He could just relax and go for it. he mentioned this too. Look what he achieved. Look at David Rudisha. I bet he doesn't need 7 other men in a race to allow him to post sub 1 mins 42.

But you haven't been in a race.
Your friend sounds like a very good runner. He should join a club and do a few races

spurscormac

walshb wrote: »

My good friend posted a 36 min 10 k time in a race. He recently bettered that to 34:34 on a lone run. He wasn't under pressure, or nervous with possible race nerves. He could just relax and go for it. he mentioned this too. Look what he achieved. Look at David Rudisha. I bet he doesn't need 7 other men in a race to allow him to post sub 1 mins 42.

Was that on a certified route or just by his garmin?
Officially, records only count on certified distances, so personally, I follow the same rules for my PBs.
I'm not saying he didn't do it, just that a PB to me only counts from a race.
And while I'm at it, only gun time, not chip time.

I get that plenty of people will run/jog without ever competing in a race, but for lots of other people, the race is the goal that keeps you going through the tough training sessions.

My guess is, you'll change your mind once you've raced.

walshb

Ososlo wrote: »

But you haven't been in a race.
Your friend sounds like a very good runner. He should join a club and do a few races

Whether I have run in an official race or not is irrelevant. One cannot prove that a runner will run faster when in an official race as opposed to a lone run against the clock. My friend is in a club.

His PB over 5 k is 16:52. He is confident that he can run 16 flat in his next 5 K. Hell of an improvement.
Will he ever better 34:34? Who knows. And, that may or may not happen in race conditions. It may well happen again in a lone training type run.

I am not saying that your best times cannot happen in a race. Some people race better and faster than when they are alone running a time trial scenario. People are different. Conditions and circumstances and nerves etc can affect each person differently.

walshb

spurscormac wrote: »

Was that on a certified route or just by his garmin?
Officially, records only count on certified distances, so personally, I follow the same rules for my PBs.
I'm not saying he didn't do it, just that a PB to me only counts from a race.
And while I'm at it, only gun time, not chip time.

I get that plenty of people will run/jog without ever competing in a race, but for lots of other people, the race is the goal that keeps you going through the tough training sessions.

My guess is, you'll change your mind once you've raced.

That was on his garmin, and yes, that can not be completely accurate. But he feels and is almost certain that the time he ran is very close to legit, and even allowing a discrepancy he most likely bettered 36 mins. He said he felt so at ease, relaxed and not at all under the race pressure that a race "can" bring. Now, some folks, as I said, feed off that and excel. But, some don't, and performe better when not in the hustle and bustle and officialness' of a race.

walshb

My 5 k time was hell. I ran my ass off to break 19 mins. Now, really, I don't think (I could be wrong)) a singlet, starting gun and others beside me in an official race is somehow gonna' give me the extra speed/strength that I crave. I was flat to the mat. Nobody in my way, not having to overtake anyone etc.

Ososlo

walshb wrote: »

My 5 k time was hell. I ran my ass off to break 19 mins. Now, really, I don't think (I could be wrong)) a singlet, starting gun and others beside me in an official race is somehow gonna' give me the extra speed/strength that I crave. I was flat to the mat. Nobody in my way, not having to overtake anyone etc.

Dunboyne will answer that for you! Good luck, make sure to report back and don't slow up at the end of the race just to prove your point:D

walshb

Ososlo wrote: »

Dunboyne will answer that for you! Good luck, make sure to report back and don't slow up at the end of the race just to prove your point:D

No. I will do my best. I guess it's more about a feeling a race gives you as opposed to it giving you some "hidden" strength. Will I get that feeling? Who knows. I did say that I have a fear of maybe getting the pace wrong and dying a death in the last half mile or so. I have a time set in my head for sub 27. That is my goal. If there are markers per mile that will be great. I can increase or decrease the pace accordingly. And I will be timing myself with my stopwatch as well as their time chips. When I hit the start line I will start the watch and when I hit the finish I will hit stop. I hope it tallies correctly with their chip time. I have heard that unnatural discrepancies can exist?

BeepBeep67

walshb wrote: »

My 5 k time was hell. I ran my ass off to break 19 mins. Now, really, I don't think (I could be wrong)) a singlet, starting gun and others beside me in an official race is somehow gonna' give me the extra speed/strength that I crave. I was flat to the mat. Nobody in my way, not having to overtake anyone etc.

Let's say you ran even splits of 3:48 to hit 19 mins, in my experience those 1st few k's will seem easier in race conditions. You body is obviously working at the same rate, but typically you'll receive a boost from the pre-race adrenaline and getting dragged around by those around you. In the closing stages if you are having a little battle with someone this can spur you on to finish faster than in time trial conditions. All of this can add up to a few seconds here and there.

walshb

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

Let's say you ran even splits of 3:48 to hit 19 mins, in my experience those 1st few k's will seem easier in race conditions. You body is obviously working at the same rate, but typically you'll receive a boost from the pre-race adrenaline and getting dragged around by those around you. In the closing stages if you are having a little battle with someone this can spur you on to finish faster than in time trial conditions. All of this can add up to a few seconds here and there.

That could well be true. I was just making a point that it's not a certainty, or close to a certainty. BTW, I hope it is true in a couple of weeks.

Pisco Sour

walshb your comments here would be the equivalent of one of us going onto the boxing form and making ill-informed assumptions, having never stepped in the ring or worn a pair of gloves.

walshb

Pisco Sour wrote: »

walshb your comments here would be the equivalent of one of us going onto the boxing form and making ill-informed assumptions, having never stepped in the ring or worn a pair of gloves.

So, please, enlighten me, and point out any points I have made that are incorrect? All my comments and points are concerned with subjective matters.

This has nothing got to do with stepping into a ring. BTW, I would never claim that only those who have competitively boxed can have a view on the sport. That is a ridiculous scenario.

Well, away you go with those points of mine that seem so ill informed.

walshb

Seeing as you brought up boxing. I know of many boxers that were fantastic in the gym and in sparring and come fight night they just could not get going. They were stiff, too nervous and couldn't flow. Just thought I'd throw it out there. You reckon that's possible for a racer or athletics runner? I am not saying both scenarios are identical, but you get my drift?

RandyMann

Walshb may have a point with regard to racing and the ones he enters. The few middle/long distance races I entered into, I never felt I was in a race cause I was a mid pack to back of pack competitor. I just felt I was running against myself and the stop watch.
Now I gave it my all and was completely empty at the end but I did record better unofficial times on my training runs, but who is to know how accurate they were.
Anyway, track racing is a different ball game, you know you are in a race then, a whole different bag of nerves

robinph

Mod: Discussion on the merits, or otherwise, of racing split from here.

SWL

walshb wrote: »

Seeing as you brought up boxing. I know of many boxers that were fantastic in the gym and in sparring and come fight night they just could not get going. They were stiff, too nervous and couldn't flow. Just thought I'd throw it out there. You reckon that's possible for a racer or athletics runner? I am not saying both scenarios are identical, but you get my drift?

I would agree with that, it happens to me all the time, I never run as fast in a race as I do in training. I have put it down to nerves or self pressure to perform, often my times are way off what I know I am capable off especially given my training volume.

walshb

SWL wrote: »

I would agree with that, it happens to me all the time, I never run as fast in a race as I do in training. I have put it down to nerves or self pressure to perform, often my times are way off what I know I am capable off especially given my training volume.

And then there are those that perform better in races. My point is NOT that you cannot run your fastest times in a race. My point is that a race doesn't necessarily bring out your best times. It can, but so can a non race type scenario.

Take a Usain Bolt in a 100 race vs. him on his own (with even a couple of training partners) with no pressure, not too concerned with a false start and no crowds shouting and cheering. Could he perform better, assuming that he commits to the 100 metres fully, and assuming he does not fault start? Now, Bolt may well say that it's the race, the event, the crowds etc that give him that extra bit, and that is fine. But, maybe he could say differently.

It's not just running that this applies to. One could apply it to many other sports. Golf, snooker, darts to name three.

huskerdu

walshb wrote: »

My 5 k time was hell. I ran my ass off to break 19 mins. Now, really, I don't think (I could be wrong)) a singlet, starting gun and others beside me in an official race is somehow gonna' give me the extra speed/strength that I crave. I was flat to the mat. Nobody in my way, not having to overtake anyone etc.

You dont know that until you have experienced both and compared them.
Its true for so many people ( but admittedly not for all) that race day gives them an edge that they dont get on their own.

I ran 10k in an individual time trial and run flat out and felt that I could not give anything else, and then a few weeks later ran a much faster time in a race, a time that I did not think myself capable of. I didn't even enjoy the race that much, ( I really had to dig deep at the end and found it hard) but the experience was great.

You might be a person that is not motivated by racing, you seem convinced that you are, so it is possibly true, even if because you believe it so much, that it will become a self fulfilling prophecy. If it is, then that's OK, lots of people run and have no interest in racing.

Good luck with the race and enjoy it.

walshb

huskerdu wrote: »

You dont know that until you have experienced both and compared them.
Its true for so many people ( but admittedly not for all) that race day gives them an edge that they dont get on their own.

I ran 10k in an individual time trial and run flat out and felt that I could not give anything else, and then a few weeks later ran a much faster time in a race, a time that I did not think myself capable of. I didn't even enjoy the race that much, ( I really had to dig deep at the end and found it hard) but the experience was great.

You might be a person that is not motivated by racing, you seem convinced that you are, so it is possibly true, even if because you believe it so much, that it will become a self fulfilling prophecy. If it is, then that's OK, lots of people run and have no interest in racing.

Good luck with the race and enjoy it.

Absolutely. We cannot know for certain. That is my actual point. So, for every one of you, there may be someone who is the opposite, and performs better when not in an actual competitive scenario.

walshb

Another point: For the non elite runners, say club runners, if they are in a field with others with similar times they can be sucked into a race that goes against them.

Pacing incorrectly, trying to keep up with a fellow runner who is that little bit better, and what happens is that they fade badly in doing so. Again, it can work to their favours as well. The competitor can maybe get that little bit more out of the person that is trying to hang with them. Can work both ways.

Psychology can play its part. A group of runners similarly matched and all wanting to better each other. Happened to Ovett in the 1500 final in Moscow. According to Cram, Ovett was quite preoccupied with what Seb was at on the day. Cram thinks this played a negative part in Ovett's race.

robinph

walshb wrote: »

Another point: For the non elite runners, say club runners, if they are in a field with others with similar times they can be sucked into a race that goes against them.

Pacing incorrectly, trying to keep up with a fellow runner who is that little bit better, and what happens is that they fade badly in doing so. Again, it can work to their favours as well. The competitor can maybe get that little bit more out of the person that is trying to hang with them. Can work both ways.

Psychology can play its part. A group of runners similarly matched and all wanting to better each other. Happened to Ovett in the 1500 final in Moscow. According to Cram, Ovett was quite preoccupied with what Seb was at on the day. Cram thinks this played a negative part in Ovett's race.

But that just goes to prove that the best way to learn more about running fast in races is by running races and getting it wrong. You have to test your limits and get it wrong to know where that limit is.

walshb

robinph wrote: »

But that just goes to prove that the best way to learn more about running fast in races is by running races and getting it wrong. You have to test your limits and get it wrong to know where that limit is.

I agree. But, there are those who just may not be able to get to their best on a race day, for reasons, yet in training they can seem to post the better times. I assume athletes do test themselves at some point in their training to their limit? Of course, they can't do that too much, as they need to hold something back for the race day(s).

BTW, my point would be most aimed at races that involve packs. Races that have more intimacy between competitors. Sprints is flat to the mat. Very little your opponent does will affect you. But, also, in sprints, nerves and the crowds and the event can lift someone or drop someone.

robinph

Few here would be running races in the same style as you would find in championships as whilst some are at the pointy end of the field, not quite at the point itself. Therfore what most of us are doing in races is time trials with a bunch of other similar standard people. There are only a few races I've done where tactics actually came into play and positions compared to those around you mattered for anything other than personal pride.

walshb

My points are concerned with "low level" races as well as all the way up to the cream of the crop. The same emotions can exist. The same feelings and expectations can exist. You are competing against others. That can lift some, but can drop some. Interesting discussion all the same.

Another factor to look at is he level/prestige of races. The more well known and important and influential a meet can either lift some and drop some. Asafa Powell comes to mind. I don't think he ever posted a sub 9.9 in a global championship final? But, he posted many during the racing season. Then there's Bolt who seems to rise to the occasion at the most prestigious races, well, apart from the 2011 WC.

Edit: Powell did run a sub 9.9 in 2009 WC.

dna_leri

There are some people who do not perform well in race situations and under-perform relative to their training. Most people perform better in race situations.

However if you do not ever race, you will never know and if you think you will under-perform you probably will i.e you will live down to your expectations.

If you do not perform better in races most of the time, then the reason is probably psychological and you need to look inside yourself to find out why. The only one holding you back is yourself.

Peterx

dna_leri wrote: »

There are some people who do not perform well in race situations and under-perform relative to their training. Most people perform better in race situations.

However if you do not ever race, you will never know and if you think you will under-perform you probably will i.e you will live down to your expectations.

If you do not perform better in races most of the time, then the reason is probably psychological and you need to look inside yourself to find out why. The only one holding you back is yourself.

+1

Most people get the most out of their bodies in a race.
That's the point of the training

Racing is great.
Long training runs with friends chatting away about all sorts are great.
Training sessions are hard.

Pisco Sour

Really never understand why people don't race and I've seen club members train and train and train and then skip races. Yeh it's good to feel fit and healthy and all but what's the point in pushing so hard in training if you're not going to toe the line and challenge yourself in racing conditions?

Racing is the purest form of training. It allows one to mess up spectacularly and to learn from that going forward. You don't learn half as much about an event and yourself in training as you do in the heat of battle of a race. I've raced 31 times this season (spanning 5 months) and this has helped me to improve hugely. I'm not suggesting that distance runners race 31 times but regular racing should be incorporated into any training schedule of any runner.

I think I'd get bored silly if I just trained and trained and never raced.

Gambas

Pisco Sour wrote: »

Really never understand why people don't race and I've seen club members train and train and train and then skip races. Yeh it's good to feel fit and healthy and all but what's the point in pushing so hard in training if you're not going to toe the line and challenge yourself in racing conditions?

Racing is the purest form of training. It allows one to mess up spectacularly and to learn from that going forward. You don't learn half as much about an event and yourself in training as you do in the heat of battle of a race. I've raced 31 times this season (spanning 5 months) and this has helped me to improve hugely. I'm not suggesting that distance runners race 31 times but regular racing should be incorporated into any training schedule of any runner.

I think I'd get bored silly if I just trained and trained and never raced.

Fear of failure -that could be the reason.

Pisco Sour

Gambas wrote: »

Fear of failure -that could be the reason.

Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat. - Theodore Roosevelt

walshb

Gambas wrote: »

Fear of failure -that could be the reason.

Or laziness. Just not all "that" into running. Not into it enough to bother entering races.

Gambas

Pisco Sour wrote: »

Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat. - Theodore Roosevelt

Yeah, yeah, yeah....

Personally, I think there are 3 critical aspects to racing that cannot be replicated in time trials and training.

• the mini-battles with those around you.

• The battle with yourself, to keep the lid on when the adrenaline is driving people past you in the first mile, and to keep pushing later in the race.

• And then there is the honesty of the results -all laid bare for anyone to see how you got on. I've yet to see a result sheet with an excuse column.

RayCun

Gambas wrote: »

I've yet to see a result sheet with an excuse column.

I think the Rock and Roll Half marathons have one of those

walshb

Gambas wrote: »

Yeah, yeah, yeah....

Personally, I think there are 3 critical aspects to racing that cannot be replicated in time trials and training.

• the mini-battles with those around you.

• The battle with yourself, to keep the lid on when the adrenaline is driving people past you in the first mile, and to keep pushing later in the race.

• And then there is the honesty of the results -all laid bare for anyone to see how you got on. I've yet to see a result sheet with an excuse column.

I agree with all above. But, I disagree that they will get you the best times. They may or they may not.

Pisco Sour

walshb wrote: »

I agree with all above. But, I disagree that they will get you the best times. They may or they may not.

You really need to actually do some races (properly that is, not running within yourself like you are planning to do in this upcoming race) before you can make such comments.

I believe it to be 100% impossible for any athlete who takes their running seriously to run faster in training solo than in a race. Sure any time I train by myself the times of my reps on the track are slower than when I do them in a training group, and that's just training!!

Krusty_Clown

walshb wrote: »

I agree with all above. But, I disagree that they will get you the best times. They may or they may not.

I'm not a boxer, but, I think if you want to become a good boxer, you should avoid any forms of training. You may provide evidence to the contrary, but I respectfully disagree. It's subjective. It may or it may not. The Chewbacca defence!

walshb

Pisco Sour wrote: »

You really need to actually do some races (properly that is, not running within yourself like you are planning to do in this upcoming race) before you can make such comments.

I believe it to be 100% impossible for any athlete who takes their running seriously to run faster in training solo than in a race. Sure any time I train by myself the times of my reps on the track are slower than when I do them in a training group, and that's just training!!

I am not speaking about ME specifically. Yes, maybe I will be one that will post the best times in a race scenario. I never said otherwise. I am simply querying this matter of fact assertion that races produce best times. That is not something that is matter of fact, or certain. For many people the race does produce best times. For others it does not. And, some people here have attested to that. So, there is no confusion or ambiguity with my posts or comments.

walshb

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I'm not a boxer, but, I think if you want to become a good boxer, you should avoid any forms of training. You may provide evidence to the contrary, but I respectfully disagree. It's subjective. It may or it may not. The Chewbacca defence!

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I would disagree. If you want to excel/improve in any sport I believe you need to train and practice.