Who is the 2nd best Irish qualified TH Prop?

opinionatedfan

Simple Question.

thomond2006

Ronan Loughney

Nobody? :pac:

wicklowwonder

Tony Buckley

Archer got destroyed playing As last year.... If he plays Saturday it will be a disaster....

phog

Not too happy with the options we have for this weekend but Greg Feek seems to think Archer is the best of a bad lot.

As I said on another thread, I really hope he doesn't get gametime ior if he does that he manages to hold his own because I dont want to see him getting a set back.

If he does play, I hope it's an 8 man scrum not like our scrum v Scotland.

corny

John Andress

Did anyone else grimace when reading the list?

I went for Fitzpatrick.

awec

John Andress

Why do we suck at producing THs?

Tox56

John Andress

Fitzpatrick by a long long way

Podge_irl

John Andress

When fit its Fitzpatrick by a margin. However, he just isn't fit enough to be relied on and that is a serious problem. Behind him it is a sea of mediocrity. I'd probably pick Andress and then Loughney to be honest, and neither are near the Irish squad. Archer has improved massively this season, but he was starting from a very low base line so I'd wait a while before proclaiming anything about him. I don't want to see him get off the bench at the weekend.

opinionatedfan

Tony Buckley

awec wrote: »

Why do we suck at producing THs?

coaching, poor talent evaluation/spotting at underage level.

would be my two biggest points.

trouttrout

John Andress

It's Fitzpatrick, by a margin so big it's not even funny

You can't be very strong in every area, and we certainly are suffering from a lack of TH's. But there a lot of promising TH's coming through as well as looseheads. I don't think it's a systematic failure, the future is bright

Podge_irl

John Andress

One year from now it's gonna be Nathan White.

mohawk

thomond2006 wrote: »

Nobody? :pac:

I would of thought you would be upset that John Hayes didn't make the list

thomond2006

Ronan Loughney

mohawk wrote: »

I would of thought you would be upset that John Hayes didn't make the list

Not really, since the question is who is the 2nd best TH prop after all. :cool:

Zzippy

opinionatedfan wrote: »

Simple Question.

Did you leave out anyone?






Ahem *Loughney* cough

Tox56

John Andress

Zzippy wrote: »

Did you leave out anyone?






Ahem *Loughney* cough

Do you really think he's the 2nd best tighthead in Ireland?

Podge_irl

John Andress

Tox56 wrote: »

Do you really think he's the 2nd best tighthead in Ireland?

Given the other options available its not an unreasonable idea.

wp_rathead

Tox56 wrote: »

Do you really think he's the 2nd best tighthead in Ireland?

..well the list did include Tony Buckley...

Foxtrol

John Andress

As of 11.55pm I see Frankie has registered 4 accounts to vote for Archer. :rolleyes:

Madworld

Tony Buckley

Andress for me. Terrible attitude but pretty decent scrumager.

opinionatedfan

Tony Buckley

Does anyone know at what age Fitzpatrick moved to Ulster?

As in how long did he play rugby in England?

Riskymove

John Andress

wicklowwonder wrote: »

Archer got destroyed playing As last year.... If he plays Saturday it will be a disaster....

because as we all know, no rugby player ever improves!

jm08

opinionatedfan wrote: »

Does anyone know at what age Fitzpatrick moved to Ulster?

As in how long did he play rugby in England?

He went to the University of Ulster so hasn't played in England. Think he is English in the way that Jamie Heaslip is Israeli!

wicklowwonder

Tony Buckley

Riskymove wrote: »

because as we all know, no rugby player ever improves!

Yeah in fairness he has improved from utterly awful to very poor....

Has he ever looked comfortable scrummaging against anyone of international standard?

Hagan is of the same standard as Archer in my opinion. Both need to improve an awful lot to fall into the Tony Buckley category.

.ak

I haven't seen much of Andress in fairness. A lot of noise being made about him. Is he actually any use?

postitnote

Tony Buckley

Oops, I clicked Andress by mistake, kind of misread the question as who should be next behind Fitzpatrick. I'm making the assumption that Andress is getting plenty of gametime, plays week in week out and doesn't have to worry about training camps and player welfare policies and instead partakes in real life scrummaging in a fairly forward dominated league.

jm08

postitnote wrote: »

Oops, I clicked Andress by mistake, kind of misread the question as who should be next behind Fitzpatrick. I'm making the assumption that Andress is getting plenty of gametime, plays week in week out and doesn't have to worry about training camps and player welfare policies and instead partakes in real life scrummaging in a fairly forward dominated league.

Andress has had 1 start in his last 6 games (averaging about 15 mins a game in the 5 games he was a sub).

Overall he has had 11 starts for Worchester this season - but he seems to now have dropped to 2nd choice.

Grimebox

For all the Rugby I watch, I have no stand out opinion on any of those players other than Bent was a bit of a flop. Some day I will understand the scrum, some day

Zzippy

Tox56 wrote: »

Do you really think he's the 2nd best tighthead in Ireland?

Well he's certainly ahead of some of the others included on the list! In my humble opinion, if it pleases you

desertcircus

I wouldn't be too worried about Bent's form; after Stan Wright, Richardt Strauss and Mike Ross, new Leinster front rows get a year's grace. Let's see how he does next season before deciding whether he's been a success or a failure.

ssaye

Most only start to peak 28+ and get a good 7 years so we have loads of young props with potential,

Chances have to be given.

Hayes, Ross etc all got better from 28 onwards

Liveforrugby

Ronan Loughney

awec wrote: »

Why do we suck at producing THs?

Genetics. the sub mediteranian gorilla like build, perfect for scrumaging, doesn't exist in ireland

LuckyLloyd

I'm sure Buckley will come good eventually lads. :pac: :rolleyes:

irishbucsfan

John Andress

Zzippy wrote: »

Well he's certainly ahead of some of the others included on the list! In my humble opinion, if it pleases you

He absolutely is.

I think Fitzpatrick is the best player on that list but after that you've got the likes of Archer, Andress and Loughney who are very difficult to seperate as they're all 2nd choice for their sides and get less exposure.

Is Loughney fit?

freyners

Fitzpatrick or Loughney, how is he left out of the poll?

Tox56

John Andress

Zzippy wrote: »

Well he's certainly ahead of some of the others included on the list! In my humble opinion, if it pleases you

I agree with that but in terms of the poll I'm amazed how people are voting for anyone who isn't Fitzpatrick

freyners

irishbucsfan wrote:

He absolutely is.

I think Fitzpatrick is the best player on that list but after that you've got the likes of Archer, Andress and Loughney who are very difficult to seperate as they're all 2nd choice for their sides and get less exposure.

Loughey has started a fair amount of games this season, white has had a few injuries. Anyone who has any doubts over loughneys scrumagging should watch the Connacht Biarritz match this year, Loughney was brilliant.

Is Loughney fit?

Yup

lurtz

heard the other night that Archer has given away most penalties on the munster team this year with 13. Pretty poor seeing as he doesnt even play that much

trouttrout

John Andress

lurtz wrote: »

heard the other night that Archer has given away most penalties on the munster team this year with 13. Pretty poor seeing as he doesnt even play that much

He's also been in the scrum for nearly everyone of our penalty tries this season

Stats work both ways

jm08

lurtz wrote: »

heard the other night that Archer has given away most penalties on the munster team this year with 13. Pretty poor seeing as he doesnt even play that much

In a season? Thats nothing for a young prop - Cian Healy gave away 5 or 6 in one game (against Italy) when he was starting out!

opinionatedfan

Tony Buckley

Munster fans always deflect criticism by citing healy.

My stupid mistake not to put loughney in. Completely forgot.

freyners

opinionatedfan wrote: »

Munster fans always deflect criticism by citing healy.

My stupid mistake not to put loughney in. Completely forgot.

Its ok, but to absolve your sin you must go to the SG, in your finest connacht jersey, and sing the Fields of Athenry ten times while bowing before a statue of Eric Elwood

.ak

opinionatedfan wrote: »

Munster fans always deflect criticism by citing healy.

My stupid mistake not to put loughney in. Completely forgot.

Drop the provincial BS.

Added Ronan.

Hagz

No other option?

justsomebloke

Hagz wrote: »

No other option?

Tom Court

cp

John Andress

Archer really does come in for a lot of criticism on here. Part of me wonders is it because of all the pimping Frankie does for him on our national broadcaster. For a lad who literally just turned 25, he's developing nicely and showing very encouraging signs of year on year improvement. Think it would do his prospects no end of good if Frankie went dark on him for a while and let the lad develop, rather than trolling everyone by suggesting he's good enough just yet.

But yeah, Fitzpatrick, by at least a couple of furlongs.

Podge_irl

John Andress

I think Archer gets a poor deal because he was pretty poor when he started out yet was still name checked by Kidney as a potential international when he was clearly nowhere close to being good enough. He has certainly improved of late, but its a bit of a leap from improving in Rabo games missing internationals to playing against France.

jamiedav2011

John Andress

cp wrote: »

Archer really does come in for a lot of criticism on here. Part of me wonders is it because of all the pimping Frankie does for him on our national broadcaster. For a lad who literally just turned 25, he's developing nicely and showing very encouraging signs of year on year improvement. Think it would do his prospects no end of good if Frankie went dark on him for a while and let the lad develop, rather than trolling everyone by suggesting he's good enough just yet.

But yeah, Fitzpatrick, by at least a couple of furlongs.

In fairness, along with Frankie's sh1te talk, Archer was pretty poor last year and the reports from the last Leinster A game didn't do him any favours. Has come on a bit alright, but I'd still fear if he has to come on on Sat.

trouttrout

John Andress

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

In fairness, along with Frankie's sh1te talk, Archer was pretty poor last year and the reports from the last Leinster A game didn't do him any favours. Has come on a bit alright, but I'd still fear if he has to come on on Sat.

tbh that A game has taken on an air of mythology at this stage. It's as if Archer was lucky not to be in a wheelchair after it

Worth noting that most of the reports of that game came from a poster who was prone to ridiculous exaggeration and nonsense (I've no doubt he was bad reading other reports though)

I agree with your post though

RoundBox11

John Andress

Taking into account that Fitzpatrick is injured, for this weekend against France, i'd rather see Loughney, Andress, Hagan or Buckley ahead of Archer on the bench.

In terms of scrummaging ability alone i'd rather have Moore ahead of Archer too...

Before either front row engages on saturday, Archer is at an instant disadvantage in terms of the laws of physics. Archer is 6 inches taller than Thomas Domingo. He'd want to make sure he gets down low and his technique is as good as possible.

However. I think we should recognize that Archer has been selected and thrown into the fire here. He's bound to get burnt at the weekend. I just hope for his sake he doesn't get absoluted galactically mullered and ruin his confidence for life. My main concern above all else is his safety.

RoundBox11

John Andress

trouttrout wrote: »

tbh that A game has taken on an air of mythology at this stage. It's as if Archer was lucky not to be in a wheelchair after it

Worth noting that most of the reports of that game came from a poster who was prone to ridiculous exaggeration and nonsense

I agree with your post though

You've some memory if you remember what poster it was over a year ago! :P

trouttrout

John Andress

RoundBox11 wrote: »

You've some memory if you remember what poster it was over a year ago! :P