My News AH thread closure?

strobe

May I suggest that a clearly popular thread closing in fast on 1400 posts in AH with nary a ban or infraction to be seen quite self evidently is suited to the AH forum?

MugMugs

strobe wrote: »

May I suggest that a clearly popular thread closing in fast on 1400 posts in AH with nary a ban or infraction to be seen quite self evidently is suited to the AH forum?

Would you not just message Liz about it so?

Personally, I found it riddled with boring clique chat.

Pig Benis

I liked reading that thread but it got ruined by a handful of people using it as a chatroom, good call on locking it imo.

strobe

MugMugs wrote: »

Would you not just message Liz about it so?

Nah. Tis general feedback.

MugMugs

RopeDrink wrote: »

There isn't a lot of Feedback on offer here, except that you feel maybe the Mod should have added a Mod-Note after the lock.

There's a comprehensive decision included in the lock post.

dr.bollocko

It had become a cliquey style off topic / chat type thread. It had run its course and a lock had been overdue for a while now.

Dravokivich

It'll be back. Threads in AH always come back.

Where To

All good things come to an end.

Agent Smith

I Fucking hated that in school.


Nobody gave a crap that your Aunt came to stay, and gave you a Teenage Mutent Ninja Turtle. Its 1991 and the country doesnt have a pot to piss in....

Beruthiel

strobe wrote: »

May I suggest that a clearly popular thread closing in fast on 1400 posts in AH with nary a ban or infraction to be seen quite self evidently is suited to the AH forum?

It was doing fine until a bunch of people turned it from a news thread into a cliquey, chat thread.
It ran it's course and had to be closed strobe.

Spear

RopeDrink wrote: »

or take the more direct route/complaint via DRP in scenario's where a person feels the decision is outright wrong or could/should be overturned but I assume this isn't one of those scenarios, more a curiosity.

Please don't tell people that, it's not true. DRP is only for bans and infractions, not for general queries.

Thrill

Beruthiel wrote: »

It was doing fine until a bunch of people turned it from a news thread into a cliquey, chat thread.

Then a simple warning to those few to stop would have sufficed. Instead its denied to everyone for the actions of a few.

dr.bollocko

Thrill wrote: »

Then a simple warning to those few to stop would have sufficed. Instead its denied to everyone for the actions of a few.

The nature of the thread is essentially off topic or chatty. We've had large discussions in the past about such a thread existing in AH and because of the clique element that inevitably forms it was decided that such threads would not be welcomed.

MadYaker

Thats all well and good but surely the announcement thread stickied at the top of AH should also be locked since it is guilty of having the exact same characteristics that got this thread locked?

Pig Benis

MadYaker wrote: »

Thats all well and good but surely the announcement thread stickied at the top of AH should also be locked since it is guilty of having the exact same characteristics that got this thread locked?

Im pretty sure those 'new mod' threads only last a few days then get locked/unstickied anyway.

ashers222

Only saw this now, thought it was a nice thread to see in AH, the clique in other forums gets on my títs so I suppose it was of some small comfort to see people enjoying each others company in a forum reputed for it's hostility.

Pudsy33

Would there be another part of the site where a similar thread would be suitable?

FoxT

I didnt read the whole thread , but I thought it was one of the better ones.
I'm still scratching my head when I see the reason for closure was..

"this thread has turned into an off topic discussion thread and AH isn't the place for it."

Sure, every thread in AH degenerates into an OT thread within a short time. I always thought that was part of the fun? I rarely post in AH anymore because it has become so...random.

Clearly I just. dont. get. it.

Kichote

Some new young upstart mod who just so happens to be a mod of this mysterious 'TCH' secret society forum she wont even tell us about, locking a thread because its cliquey?


Well I'll eat ma Goddamn hat!

Asiaprod

Kichote wrote: »

Some new young upstart mod ...

We don't take kindly to Mod bashing, especially from someone with a total of 61 posts and a newbi to the site. The next time it will be more than a card.

Just to clarify a point, LizT happened to be the one who clicked the button, however it was discussed and agreed by the AH mods and was a team decision.

dr.bollocko

FoxT wrote: »

I didnt read the whole thread , but I thought it was one of the better ones.
I'm still scratching my head when I see the reason for closure was..

"this thread has turned into an off topic discussion thread and AH isn't the place for it."

Sure, every thread in AH degenerates into an OT thread within a short time. I always thought that was part of the fun? I rarely post in AH anymore because it has become so...random.

Clearly I just. dont. get. it.

A number of times throughout the years there has been a discussion where a group of posters wanted a chat, or off-topic thread in after hours.

Similar to threads you might see in smaller forums with a more defined scope than after hours.

We have decided after a large amount of discussion that after hours is not the place for such a thread. We don't want cliques to form. After hours is not facebook at the end of the day.

Micky Dolenz

dr.bollocko wrote: »

After hours is not facebook at the end of the day.

This is really the only answer needed to the question.

P. Breathnach

dr.bollocko wrote: »

A number of times throughout the years there has been a discussion where a group of posters wanted a chat, or off-topic thread in after hours.

I think this is wise. There is a community dimension to Boards, but we need to find a balance between community and clique.

We have decided after a large amount of discussion ...

So you had a chat about it?

5starpool

I don't know what the specific thread involved here was so I am talking in generalities here, but what's the point in closing a thread that is not causing any issues and that some people enjoy? It smacks of heavy handedness and over moderation to me. Mods have a hard enough role as it is without pissing off some people who are talking in a thread that may have gone off topic or is a bit chatty.

So what? Why not let people discuss things on an internet forum? Having general pigeon holes for what is discussed where is fine and totally necessary on a site this size, but being too rigid or strict never did anyone any good. Moderation for the sake of moderation is never good imo. Moderate when something is becoming troublesome. If the thread was suffering because of it then delete some posts, give a warning and get back on topic. If the topic is long dead or evolved and people are generally just shooting the breeze then let them.

dr.bollocko

5starpool wrote: »

I don't know what the specific thread involved here was so I am talking in generalities here, but what's the point in closing a thread that is not causing any issues and that some people enjoy? It smacks of heavy handedness and over moderation to me. Mods have a hard enough role as it is without pissing off some people who are talking in a thread that may have gone off topic or is a bit chatty.

So what? Why not let people discuss things on an internet forum? Having general pigeon holes for what is discussed where is fine and totally necessary on a site this size, but being too rigid or strict never did anyone any good. Moderation for the sake of moderation is never good imo. Moderate when something is becoming troublesome. If the thread was suffering because of it then delete some posts, give a warning and get back on topic. If the topic is long dead or evolved and people are generally just shooting the breeze then let them.

I have never been an advocate of moderation for the sake of moderation.

I have outlined already the reasons for the closure of the thread. We believe this is for the good of the forum. That's reason one of why we do anything as moderators.

It wasn't a thread which became off topic. It was a thread which was an off topic / chat thread specifically in nature.

Similar to a number of smaller forum's off topic discussion threads you might be familiar with. Because of this it was decided to close it as these threads tend to create a clique element which is unwelcome.

We've had feedback threads in the past about the possibility of opening threads like this and have responded that we believe that it is better for the forum that they do not happen on AH.

In niche forums, those with a smaller scape, these threads can be beneficial in creating a sense of community.

In broad focusing fast moving forums like AH they can create cliques and are unnecessary.

We don't need a general discussion thread because it is the general discussion forum.

Beruthiel

5starpool wrote: »

I don't know what the specific thread involved here was so I am talking in generalities here

As this discussion is about a specific thread, it's not very helpful to talk in generalities.

5starpool

dr.bollocko wrote: »

I have never been an advocate of moderation for the sake of moderation.

I have outlined already the reasons for the closure of the thread. We believe this is for the good of the forum. That's reason one of why we do anything as moderators.

It wasn't a thread which became off topic. It was a thread which was an off topic / chat thread specifically in nature.

Similar to a number of smaller forum's off topic discussion threads you might be familiar with. Because of this it was decided to close it as these threads tend to create a clique element which is unwelcome.

We've had feedback threads in the past about the possibility of opening threads like this and have responded that we believe that it is better for the forum that they do not happen on AH.

In niche forums, those with a smaller scape, these threads can be beneficial in creating a sense of community.

In broad focusing fast moving forums like AH they can create cliques and are unnecessary.

We don't need a general discussion thread because it is the general discussion forum.

I'd agree that in general you seem to be a sensible lad when it comes to moderation, so no arguments there, and I can imagine that moderating AH in general must be a nightmare. What I would say though, is that despite a general rule against general chat threads, if one develops then perhaps the need is there? What was once in the best interests of a forum need not always be the case. I would imagine that somewhere like AH if one were to develop organically like that thread seemed to do, most people would not bother with it, and even if a lot of people did bother with it, it must in itself be a good thing.

Each forum has it's own identity and it's own set of regulars, and AH, despite it's size and large user base with a high number of occasional visitors, is no different I would suggest. The word clique is thrown around a lot and carries negative connotations of sneering and almost bullying, but it does not have to be like that. There is a strong argument that it is not needed, certainly, but there is also an argument that if it will work then it is needed. I't doesn't have to be a sticky, and by the very nature of AH it will fall off the first page a lot.

Of course the above has to be taken in context of my own set of views which were formed outside of AH (although I do dip in occasionally like many people).

Edit: Since I'm not allowed to talk generally, then the above is specific to that thread as I am an expert on it, despite any statements to the contrary above.

dr.bollocko

5starpool wrote: »

I'd agree that in general you seem to be a sensible lad when it comes to moderation, so no arguments there, and I can imagine that moderating AH in general must be a nightmare. What I would say though, is that despite a general rule against general chat threads, if one develops then perhaps the need is there?

I guess the counter to that would be, you know, if a racist, sexist, immigrant bashing, LGBT community bashing etc. thread showed up, would that indicate that it perhaps needs to be there?

It is the everything forum in a sense. All things general discussion. I don't think it needs an everything thread and in fact an everything sort of chat/hello/here's how my day went thread would hurt the broader user base of the forum. It creates a smaller more cliquey group and that's just going to damage the forum. An off topic thread would suggest that AH has a topic to begin with.

5starpool

dr.bollocko wrote: »

I guess the counter to that would be, you know, if a racist, sexist, immigrant bashing, LGBT community bashing etc. thread showed up, would that indicate that it perhaps needs to be there?

It is the everything forum in a sense. All things general discussion. I don't think it needs an everything thread and in fact an everything sort of chat/hello/here's how my day went thread would hurt the broader user base of the forum. It creates a smaller more cliquey group and that's just going to damage the forum. An off topic thread would suggest that AH has a topic to begin with.

Obviously the first part of that is moot as they are doing harm, which is the opposite of the doing no harm part of my argument.

At the end of the day It's not my forum or call to make but just wanted to inject my 2c worth. It's not going to affect my life, but in general I'm more in favour of live and let live in cases like this than lock and tell people that they are off topic in an off topic forum. It's limits people if they can't have the banter with the people they want to have it with. There are other places that can be done, sure, but the people they want to do it with aren't there and others are, so it's not the same. The only genuine alternative is to try and get a hosted forum going, and I would guess that a lot of the hosted forums that exist one here are as a result of moderators somewhere going 'You can't talk about that here'.

I had a look at the thread and it went from people talking about the mundane things they did that day to people talking about mundane things they did that day but in a more conversational style, so to close it after 3 months was a bit mean imo. It's not like it's 1400 or so posts in 3 months was taking over the forum.Were the people involved showing tendencies to gang up on people elsewhere? I don't get the clique defence thing.

Whatever I think though, it's good to see you here discussing it and not ignoring it while just thanking posts that may agree with your position like happens a lot on feedback.

Lisha

I loved the My News thread
I found it to be a good humoured thread and I did not find it cliquey at all. All news was welcomed and enjoyed and I never saw any derogatory posting to any boards member.

I just find it ironic as in general I am not at all comfortable posting in AH, but I never felt anything but good vibes from the My News thread.
My own opinion is that AH is very cliquey.

I don't understand the moderators decision.
But the decision has been made now and this will be my last post on the matter.

I do realise that the mods have a difficult job to do and I do thank and appreciate their hard work as this helps make boards a pleasant place to post
Thanks,
Lisha

P_1

To be honest I've been wondering lately if Boards as a whole has gotten a bit guilty of overcategorising itself.

A classic example is here in a mod saying, AH is an OT forum, therefore we don't need an OT thread in it. Not everything being talked about needs to have itself categorised.

To me it just strikes me as making more work than is actually needed for the Mods.

Micky Dolenz

P_1 wrote: »

To be honest I've been wondering lately if Boards as a whole has gotten a bit guilty of overcategorising itself.
.

As long as I have been on boards, there has never been chat threads in AH so it certainly isn't a new thing.

P_1

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

As long as I have been on boards, there has never been chat threads in AH so it certainly isn't a new thing.

Fair enough, but was that custom established from the top (by it basically being banned) or from the bottom (by people basically not starting/wanting one)?

My name is URL

I hate the idea of chit-chat threads and cliques and so on, but how was the News thread any different from say.. the Depression thread currently ongoing in AH? Both are filled with chat (albeit of much different kinds) and a few posters are more active in them than others (is that not cliquey?).

Obviously the depression thread is there to serve a purpose, and I'm sure it serves the purpose well for those taking part and finding comfort in it. Its presence hasn't negatively affected the forum overall from what I can see, so why or how would a chat thread not related to mental health issues have a negative affect? The way I'd look at it is; if people are getting something out of the thread and are happy to put something into it, then what's the harm once everything is civil and above board?

Cliques form all the time without the existence of chat threads. How many AH posters are also members of cliquey private / invite only forums? Even the most menial of threads draw certain 'cliques' into them... ones that have formed regardless of any silly chat thread existing.

Micky Dolenz

P_1 wrote: »

Fair enough, but was that custom established from the top (by it basically being banned) or from the bottom (by people basically not starting/wanting one)?

dr.b answers that in his replies.


In my experience it is a mixture of both. Threads like that inevitably turn into flirt fests where nothing is actually discussed. Painful to read and it forms cliques which can be hard to un-form. The site is full of chat threads so anyone looking to have a chin wag is free to do so.

And just to make one more thing clear, we have no issue modding any thread and have never shied away from a topic because it was going to get heated.

P_1

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

dr.b answers that in his replies.


In my experience it is a mixture of both. Threads like that inevitably turn into flirt fests where nothing is actually discussed. Painful to read and it forms cliques which can be hard to un-form. The site is full of chat threads so anyone looking to have a chin wag is free to do so.

And just to make one more thing clear, we have no issue modding any thread and have never shied away from a topic because it was going to get heated.

Not having a go by the way, just some idle curiosity

I can see the logic behind it to be fair. For a thread to 'work' in AH it does need to have an underlining topic purely because so many people tend to post in AH having an OT thread there could just turn into a cluttered mess.

The only concern I would have is that in your intention to avoid cliques forming you may have unintentionally cause a perceived clique to form (that perceived clique being the mods/admins). That's just human nature though I guess.

Micky Dolenz

P_1 wrote: »

Not having a go by the way, just some idle curiosity

I can see the logic behind it to be fair. For a thread to 'work' in AH it does need to have an underlining topic purely because so many people tend to post in AH having an OT thread there could just turn into a cluttered mess.

The only concern I would have is that in your intention to avoid cliques forming you may have unintentionally cause a perceived clique to form (that perceived clique being the mods/admins). That's just human nature though I guess.

There is nothing I can do about that. Mods and Admins will never make everyone happy and sometimes it's best not to try.

We do however try and make the best decisions for the forums we look after.

P_1

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

There is nothing I can do about that. Mods and Admins will never make everyone happy and sometimes it's best not to try.

We do however try and make the best decisions for the forums we look after.

Yeah that's all you can do at the end of the day. It would be a very boring place if everybody just agreed with each other after all

orestes

Popular thread closed: Ah bugger, I liked that thread.

Popular thread closed by new mod: Ah man, they used to be cool.

Popular thread closed by new female mod: Who the hell does this chick think she is?! TO FEEDBACK DAMMIT! :mad:

P_1

orestes wrote: »

Popular thread closed: Ah bugger, I liked that thread.

Popular thread closed by new mod: Ah man, they used to be cool.

Popular thread closed by new female mod: Who the hell does this chick think she is?! TO FEEDBACK DAMMIT! :mad:

Isn't that what feedback is for though? You see a decision you don't agree with so you come here to question that decision.

keith16

I have to say it was a bit heavy handed. Completely disagree with the reasoning to close it.

What about the those boards match making threads? Are they not the very definition of flirty cliqish threads as outlined here?

Agree it had a tendency to go OT and flirty ocassionally but the majority of posts in that thread were talking about their day.

Very dissapointing that it was closed without so much as a warning. The mods get it right 99.9% of the time but this is one that they have got it wrong and the fact there is a feedback thread says a lot.

Micky Dolenz

keith16 wrote: »

What about the those boards match making threads? Are they not the very definition of flirty cliqish threads as outlined here?

That thread pops up around mid feb every year, normally one or two posts per poster and then gets forgotten about till next year.

keith16 wrote: »

Agree it had a tendency to go OT and flirty ocassionally but the majority of posts in that thread were talking about their day.

This is exactly why it was closed.

So you agree with us on both counts, it was OT flirty, it was like a facebook status update thread. AKA, here's what I did today.

keith16 wrote: »

Very dissapointing that it was closed without so much as a warning. The mods get it right 99.9% of the time but this is one that they have got it wrong and the fact there is a feedback thread says a lot.

What does it really say a lot though? There are hundreds of posters and lurkers on AH.

Zaph

Those sort of cliquey, chat-filled threads in AH (and other forums) are a relatively new phenomenon, spawned from an influxof posters whose introduction to the internet has been via Facebook. They never existed when I joined Boards and they have only really become an issue for mods in the last couple of years. If people want to use Boards like Facebook, then just go and post on Facebook. Boards is, and always will be, a discussion site, not somewhere to bring people up to date with the most trivial aspects of your life that they don't really give a crap about anyway.

P_1

Zaph wrote: »

Those sort of cliquey, chat-filled threads in AH (and other forums) are a relatively new phenomenon, spawned from an influxof posters whose introduction to the internet has been via Facebook. They never existed when I joined Boards and they have only really become an issue for mods in the last couple of years. If people want to use Boards like Facebook, then just go and post on Facebook. Boards is, and always will be, a discussion site, not somewhere to bring people up to date with the most trivial aspects of your life that they don't really give a crap about anyway.

That's actually a tough balance to strike now that I think about it.

I mean the site is a discussion site, sometimes discussion is just random people talking about what happened to them during the day etc, sometimes its random people talking about the 'issues of the day'. I can see how people can see this 'cliquey' conversation is a problem, similarly I can see how people can see threads being closed and being told to talk about stuff elsewhere is a problem.

Fair play to ye for being able to strike this balance, I reckon I'd crack up if I was to try doing it myself

keith16

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

This is exactly why it was closed.

So you agree with us on both counts, it was OT flirty, it was like a facebook status update thread. AKA, here's what I did today.

I agree that from time to time the thread could be like that but generally got back on track. My real point is the thread is running since before Christmas and suddenly it's not allowed? That makes no sense to me.

Secondly, there was never a warning given to stay OT, just flat out closure. Do you not think a warning should have been given first?

Finally, the reasons given seem more and more defensive. The post LizT made said "OT chat" - fair enough, but it seems the more it's argued in here, the more reasons are given.

Zaph wrote: »

Those sort of cliquey, chat-filled threads in AH (and other forums) are a relatively new phenomenon, spawned from an influxof posters whose introduction to the internet has been via Facebook. They never existed when I joined Boards and they have only really become an issue for mods in the last couple of years. If people want to use Boards like Facebook, then just go and post on Facebook. Boards is, and always will be, a discussion site, not somewhere to bring people up to date with the most trivial aspects of your life that they don't really give a crap about anyway.

Completely disagree with this Zaph.

There were a lot of long time posters contributing to that thread. Moreover, the thread is nothing like FB and the more I read this thread, the clearer it becomes no-one really read the "My News" thread.

Just read the first page of the thread and then go and look at the "Great/Dumb Facebook statuses" to see how different the thread is to FB. To say the thread is like FB is an insult to a lot of decent posters who contributed to the thread.

It was a great thread full of brilliantly funny and truthful posts that have all the hallmark of boards.ie humour.

The only thing that resembles FB in AH these days are the threads with an OP along the lines of:

LOZLZ, look at this www.stupidlink.com

To me, this is a bigger issue than any perceived clique-ish behaviour.

Where To

Zaph wrote: »

Those sort of cliquey, chat-filled threads in AH (and other forums) are a relatively new phenomenon, spawned from an influxof posters whose introduction to the internet has been via Facebook. They never existed when I joined Boards and they have only really become an issue for mods in the last couple of years. If people want to use Boards like Facebook, then just go and post on Facebook. Boards is, and always will be, a discussion site, not somewhere to bring people up to date with the most trivial aspects of your life that they don't really give a crap about anyway.

I was going to bite my tongue on this issue, but that's nothing short of an insulting post Zaph.

The worst thread I have seen on this site for cliqueiness (is that a word?), mundane Facebook style 'I just got up I'm soooo tired' posts, and general chat-filled baloney, is posted on daily by the same Moderators who closed this thread.

If you think the My News thread was lowering the tone of this site, fine, there's nothing we can do about that, but when other threads remain unlocked it reeks of hypocrisy.

Ella

Where To wrote: »

I was going to bite my tongue on this issue, but that's nothing short of an insulting post Zaph.

The worst thread I have seen on this site for cliqueiness (is that a word?), mundane Facebook style 'I just got up I'm soooo tired' posts, and general chat-filled baloney, is posted on daily by the same Moderators who closed this thread.

If you think the My News thread was lowering the tone of this site, fine, there's nothing we can do about that, but when other threads remain unlocked it reeks of hypocrisy.

Different forums, different rules.

If the mods of one forum don't want a certain type of thread then it's their call. If you don't like it try a different forum where there are those type of threads.

keith16

Ella wrote: »

Different forums, different rules.

If the mods of one forum don't want a certain type of thread then it's their call. If you don't like it try a different forum where there are those type of threads.

Not the point anymore. It's been made clear the boards.ie is the wrong site. Let alone there being a right forum.

Where To

Ella wrote: »

Different forums, different rules.

If the mods of one forum don't want a certain type of thread then it's their call. If you don't like it try a different forum where there are those type of threads.

Same Moderator(s), same posters, same sh1te.

Also this thread was still in AH last time I looked.

It doesn't matter what forum you are in, if you condescend to others while behaving similarly or worse yourself, you are a hypocrite.

anncoates

Not sure people understand how boring flirty off topic chat type threads are to follow if you are not part of the 'group' or not interested in that.

You end up scrolling through the thread getting pissed off trying to pick up the trail of the original topic again.

A bit of banter is grand but pages and pages of esoteric flirting and chat...

There are lots of places you can chat in that way or even start a private forum.