Road accreditation is it time?

1750W

Considering you have to gain track accreditation before you ride on sun drive track. Why is it that anyone can just turn up with money and sign a form and ride a road race???

There are far too many crashes at road races and unfortunately some have caused serious injury and unfortunately much worse.

I'm all for track accreditation but seriously road racing is far more dangerous with many hazards that a lot of riders seem to be oblivious to.

Harrybelafonte

1750W wrote: »

Considering you have to gain track accreditation before you ride on sun drive track. Why is it that anyone can just turn up with money and sign a form and ride a road race???

There are far too many crashes at road races and unfortunately some have caused serious injury and unfortunately much worse.

I'm all for track accreditation but seriously road racing is far more dangerous with many hazards that a lot of riders seem to be oblivious to.

Only thing I can say is that you're mistaken about road racing being far more dangerous than track. still an interesting question, I have nothing else to add.

spyderski

Yes. I've been saying this for the past year. Has to be done.

DirkVoodoo

spyderski wrote: »

Yes. I've been saying this for the past year. Has to be done.

Difficult to implement without having a token test ala the driving one. A track is a track, do you need accreditation for each road circuit? Its generally considered that riders will gain the skills they need by riding with the club on winter spins. The recent surge in cycling has made this more difficult. One noob isn't riding with an experienced group, you now have trains of noobs riding together.

I think club leagues would be the only way really, but some clubs don't have leagues, perhaps more organization on a local level between clubs is needed.

Harrybelafonte

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Difficult to implement without having a token test ala the driving one. A track is a track, do you need accreditation for each road circuit? Its generally considered that riders will gain the skills they need by riding with the club on winter spins. The recent surge in cycling has made this more difficult. One noob isn't riding with an experienced group, you now have trains of noobs riding together.

I think club leagues would be the only way really, but some clubs don't have leagues, perhaps more organization on a local level between clubs is needed.

I'm being picky here, but a track is not a track. Riding the banking on Sundrive is not like it is in Calshot or Manchester.

I'd agree though, I think perception is that club group spins should get you ready for racing, and it generally should.

Ryder

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Difficult to implement without having a token test ala the driving one. A track is a track, do you need accreditation for each road circuit? Its generally considered that riders will gain the skills they need by riding with the club on winter spins. The recent surge in cycling has made this more difficult. One noob isn't riding with an experienced group, you now have trains of noobs riding together.

I think club leagues would be the only way really, but some clubs don't have leagues, perhaps more organization on a local level between clubs is needed.

Maybe restrict entry to club members only....unfair for some and doesn't guarantee competence but it's a start.

is their any evidence that new cyclists cause the crashes? I always thought it was the bunch sprints bar some genuine accident at the back of the pack

1750W

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Only thing I can say is that you're mistaken about road racing being far more dangerous than track. still an interesting question, I have nothing else to add.

Really? You don't have to contend with oncoming cars, cats eyes potholes, riders jamming on for no apparent reason 80kph descents, wet roads greasy roads on the track. I'm sure I could go on.

1750W

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Difficult to implement without having a token test ala the driving one. A track is a track, do you need accreditation for each road circuit? Its generally considered that riders will gain the skills they need by riding with the club on winter spins. The recent surge in cycling has made this more difficult. One noob isn't riding with an experienced group, you now have trains of noobs riding together.

I think club leagues would be the only way really, but some clubs don't have leagues, perhaps more organization on a local level between clubs is needed.

No not accreditation for each road circuit that would be unfeasible. But a proper accreditation of road racing etiquette. Road racing needs to be made safer.

Harrybelafonte

1750W wrote: »

Really? You don't have to contend with oncoming cars, cats eyes potholes, riders jamming on for no apparent reason 80kph descents, wet roads greasy roads on the track. I'm sure I could go on.

Well if you're going to include cats eyes, then yeah road racing is super dangerous.

1750W

Ryder wrote: »

Maybe restrict entry to club members only....unfair for some and doesn't guarantee competence but it's a start.

is their any evidence that new cyclists cause the crashes? I always thought it was the bunch sprints bar some genuine accident at the back of the pack

I purposely did t say for new cyclists (racers) in first post.
I think all cyclists that intend to race should have to take accreditation regardless of experience.

How do you define an ingenuine accident from a genuine one?

ROK ON

I am making my second attempt at road racing this year. First tried two years ago and did three races and was murdered in all three. Out the back early, lost a lot on cornering - lacked the skll to corner at speed.

So from that regard I would welcome a skills improvement. However I think the op needs to question as to what he expects accreditation would provide by way of benefits.

I am not so certain that accreditation would make things safer, it could conceivably mean that we experience the same amount of crashes but that we are now at least qualified to crash.

I think society has an in-built tendency to seek regulation as a mitigant for risk, when often it is not. Cycling is not dangerous but neither is it without risk. Crashes are the most obvious risk and they seem to occur at every level of the sport from lower categories up thru the top athletes with impeccable bike handling. It is inevitable.

What would be useful is learning how to react in a crash. For example as a young kid playing rugby our coaches spent a lot of time teaching is how to fall correctly and safely when tackled, how to protect oneself at the bottom of the ruck. It was accepted that we would be hit hard and would fall. Rather than preventing it, we were thought how to fall safely. I accept it is a bit different falling off a bike at high speed with guys potentially crashing I to your falling body. But accreditation may not solve this.

I am doing a club league this year because I want to learn some skills. If there was a skills course I would like to take one, but I really don't think it will stop pile ups in a sport where they are part of the package.

DirkVoodoo

OK, clarify something for me.

You've said that its not for new cyclists, but accreditation would have to test basic skills.

If now most crashes are not caused by new cyclists, but experienced ones, then your accreditation does not improve safety but simply pays lip service or absolves organisers of blame. Unless you reckon there is a large contingent of experienced cyclists who happen to lack basic bunch riding skills?

I think most crashes are caused by fatigue, lack of concentration and/or lack of knowledge of the course.

Maybe the solution is to make riders do a mandatory tour of the course beforehand?

I just fail to see how accreditation would be of any benefit to anyone except those new to racing.

Ryder

Depends on what accreditation means...if it's like a driving test, having someone cycling behind you and watching you corner etc and then a written test, it won't achieve much. You want people to be comfortable in right groups so enforce club membership. Also strictly penalize any dangerous moves.....but again is there any evidence that it's new cyclists that cause the crashes?

Esroh

Over here west of the Shannon, Connacht cycling ran training races in Feb.
see below

Format for Connacht Training race,.
There will be 4 separate races within the 70k loop. 4 chances to perfect your racing skills and tactics.
• Race one 24k from Bohola to Carracastle, re group through the village 4k.
• Race two, 5k Race from Carracastle to Charlestown re group through the town 2k.
• Race three, 15k from Charlestown/ Carracastle junction to Swinford, regroup on by pass 2k.
• Race four, 8k from Swinford to Bohola.
A chequered flag will indicate the finish line and will easily be seen in the distance.
The aim is for all participants to race hard in each race by attacking, chasing etc., with a sprint for the finish flag.
After each race ALL racers must stay behind the lead car and wait for everyone to re group.
There will be 2 separate race groups, A4 and club racers will start 15minutes ahead of the A3,A2,A1 group leaving no chance of the Latter group catching up before the finish line.
The A4 and club racers can race hard in the knowledge that they are not trying to stay away from the scratch group.
Representatives from each club will be approached to act as supervisors.
RULES of the road must strictly be adhered too, anyone caught crossing the white line or racing dangerously will be asked to leave the race.

Maybe a few days of this type of thing where it was watched over by Commissars in each province for newbies would work

High Nellie

There could be proportionately more crashes in the first few days of the Tour de France than in your average race here. Should all the pros be sent for training and accreditation?
Crashes happen in bike racing and there are a lot of factors involved.

The track is different - for example you have no brakes. Now, if road racing was done on fixed-wheelers then there might be an argument for accreditation for the road. So it's not matching like with like to claim that there should be accreditation on the road, just because its on the track.

Being hit by cars - or hitting cars - is quite serious obviously. One way to fix this is for Commissaries to implement their threats to disqualify riders who continually or dangerously go over the white line. I've often heard them threaten in but never seen it carried out. Every teacher and parent knows (or should know) that kids quickly learn when threats are idle ones and just learn to ignore them. Presumably adults do also

crashoveroid

I think that is a daft idea. I was told many years ago don't be prepared to race the bike if your prepared to fall off. I think its just part of the sport.

I do get what you mean with rider that unsure of how to ride a bunch and that if you touch off them they go in panic. But like all of us this is learning and confidence issue. From my experience in most bunches these days if you do something that somebody thinks is wrong you will hear about it fairly quick.

Raam

Someone should run a course for the pros. Those lads are always falling off.

dave_o_brien

As with most people here, I think it's missing the point.

The most serious incidents recently have involved collisions that involved a motorist from outside of the race and a bike rider. No amount of accreditation can account for that.

Crashes within the bunch happen. Limiting field sizes is a good move by CI, accreditation is simply mitigating against responsibility, not risk.

buffalo

High Nellie wrote: »

Being hit by cars - or hitting cars - is quite serious obviously. One way to fix this is for Commissaries to implement their threats to disqualify riders who continually or dangerously go over the white line. I've often heard them threaten in but never seen it carried out. Every teacher and parent knows (or should know) that kids quickly learn when threats are idle ones and just learn to ignore them. Presumably adults do also

Fully agree. Even last Saturday, there was a commissaire/marshall car driving up the wrong side of the road, behind a pile of riders, yelling at them to get back on their own side of the road. I didn't see him taking any numbers, and I didn't hear of any sanctions being given. Rules need to be enforced.

Pawlie

buffalo wrote: »

Fully agree. Even last Saturday, there was a commissaire/marshall car driving up the wrong side of the road, behind a pile of riders, yelling at them to get back on their own side of the road. I didn't see him taking any numbers, and I didn't hear of any sanctions being given. Rules need to be enforced.

A few times saturday at the DWCC a4 race I could hear them shout out at guys and yelling their numbers to get in,I thought at one stage a guy was going to cycle into the front of a jeep,we where just coming over a smnall crest you couldnt see oncoming traffic and he just pulled in intime,but shunted 4/5 lads over to one side and they nearly came down,if they did it would have been nasty.

Dunno if they sanctioned him or not,

Raam

Pawlie wrote: »

A few times saturday at the DWCC a4 race I could hear them shout out at guys and yelling their numbers to get in,I thought at one stage a guy was going to cycle into the front of a jeep,we where just coming over a smnall crest you couldnt see oncoming traffic and he just pulled in intime,but shunted 4/5 lads over to one side and they nearly came down,if they did it would have been nasty.

Dunno if they sanctioned him or not,

That one pisses me off. That was happening all over the shop in the Gorey the year I did it. So dangerous.

chakattack

Most of the bunch had to come to a halt in Navan last weekend for the same reason..a rider and an oncoming car playing chicken, ran out of road and both had to stop. I'm sure the driver was pissed off along with the guy who was shunted off his bike in the melee.

dedocdude

Every week there is racing, on the Monday photos get uploaded of the race and its always the same - fellas all over the road thinking they are in the tour.

When you race you are on a public, open road - when a marshal waves a flag at a fella in a car, the motorist is under no obligation to pull in, stop or do anything - so dont be in his way. Motorist needs to only follow directions of garda (or people in charge of animals - so maybe a bicycle race falls under this after all ;-) )

What ever about doing an accreditation course (as an underage rider we used to do skills events as part of stage racing so its not a new idea at all and is workable) - if people had more cop on whilst racing, it would be a start. The only way lads will obey rules of the road is if the comm. calls a halt to a race if lads are acting the maggot like crossing white line - they do this in the UK - a few years ago a high profile stage race was was halted on stage one as fellas crossed the while line - this had all the UK pro teams in it but the Police were not afraid to show teeth. Given the two tragic incidents in the UK last weekend, I bet they will do this again over there in near future.

I have been told the size of the fields for the Easter stage races in a few weeks and without mentioning figures, you wouldn't get that amount of riders in one of the 'Monuments' - all i can say is stay safe out there lads and lassies - remember some of us have work on Monday morning.

dave_o_brien

dedocdude wrote: »

Every week there is racing, on the Monday photos get uploaded of the race and its always the same - fellas all over the road thinking they are in the tour.

When you race you are on a public, open road - when a marshal waves a flag at a fella in a car, the motorist is under no obligation to pull in, stop or do anything - so dont be in his way. Motorist needs to only follow directions of garda (or people in charge of animals - so maybe a bicycle race falls under this after all ;-) )

What ever about doing an accreditation course (as an underage rider we used to do skills events as part of stage racing so its not a new idea at all and is workable) - if people had more cop on whilst racing, it would be a start. The only way lads will obey rules of the road is if the comm. calls a halt to a race if lads are acting the maggot like crossing white line - they do this in the UK - a few years ago a high profile stage race was was halted on stage one as fellas crossed the while line - this had all the UK pro teams in it but the Police were not afraid to show teeth. Given the two tragic incidents in the UK last weekend, I bet they will do this again over there in near future.

I have been told the size of the fields for the Easter stage races in a few weeks and without mentioning figures, you wouldn't get that amount of riders in one of the 'Monuments' - all i can say is stay safe out there lads and lassies - remember some of us have work on Monday morning.

Exactly. Most of the serious incidents are cause by riders breaking the rules. These rules are poorly enforced. If they were enforced strongly enough, there'd be no need for talk of an accreditation course. Crashes would decrease to just racing incidents, which are an unfortunate consequence of racing.

morana

I think the accreditation should be done at club level. Last year we looked at introducing a letter of competency but didn't because we felt it would be difficult for club officials to stand over it and within limited resources we wouldn't be in a position to check them!

that's the value of a club, they teach you how to ride in a group how to move, hold your line, signals , gearing etc.

I have only been in 1 race which was stopped because of riders crossing the white line but it will become more common I am sure. If circuits could be one way it would help a lot. I believe we will always have crashes but its the ones with cars that are particularly dangerous.

dedocdude

morana wrote: »

I believe we will always have crashes but its the ones with cars that are particularly dangerous.

precisely - rubbing a wheel or tangling bars is one thing - u might lose some skin, a brake leaver maybe even a collar bone, but no one gets up after hitting a car and says - "ah grand, just a few scratches and i might need new handlebar tape"

In my opinion you cant really teach bike handling - I've been racing on and off for 23 years and wouldn't be a patch on some kids that could literally ride over you - that said I have seen some shocking stuff from so called top riders - ridden crits against one particular "pro" who nearly had me in tears as I looked at him cornering like a 50 pence piece - he seems to fall off a lot come to think of it -

But you can teach common sense and rules of the road. You wouldn't drive your car on the wrong side of the road, so why put ur bike out there?

LeoD

If you're going to have races with 100+ competitors on narrow roads, it's only natural that some/many will be forced to cycle on the wrong side of the road. It's simply a matter of numbers. Racing is generally safer in club races and A1/A2 due to smaller numbers. As has been pointed out - send a large group of the top bike riders in the world down a road where they can't all fit and they too will fall over like us A4 plebs.

dave_o_brien

LeoD wrote: »

If you're going to have races with 100+ competitors on narrow roads open to traffic, it's only natural that some/many will be forced to cycle on the wrong side of the road. It's simply a matter of numbers. Racing is generally safer in club races and A1/A2 due to smaller numbers. As has been pointed out - send a large group of the top bike riders in the world down a road where they can't all fit and they too will fall over like us A4 plebs.

No.

LeoD

How are you meant to move up towards the front of a race without crossing the centre line if the left lane is around 8ft wide and only capable of taking 3 riders abreast and is choca-blocked with riders for 40-60m?

Harrybelafonte

LeoD wrote: »

How are you meant to move up towards the front of a race without crossing the centre line if the left lane is around 8ft wide and only capable of taking 3 riders abreast and is choca-blocked with riders for 40m?

I'm guessing you do it when it's safe, ie no oncoming traffic?

Lumen

LeoD wrote: »

How are you meant to move up towards the front of a race without crossing the centre line if the left lane is around 8ft wide and only capable of taking 3 riders abreast and is choca-blocked with riders for 40-60m?

Seriously? That's racing. The same applies on closed roads where the peloton takes up both lanes.

Raam

Lumen wrote: »

Seriously? That's racing. The same applies on closed roads where the peloton takes up both lanes.

He's asking how to do it.

dave_o_brien

LeoD wrote: »

How are you meant to move up towards the front of a race without crossing the centre line if the left lane is around 8ft wide and only capable of taking 3 riders abreast and is choca-blocked with riders for 40-60m?

How would you do it if the road was only 8ft wide?

I'm sorry, but the notion that anyone "forced" riders to cross the centre line is flawed. The rules are clear; it's forbidden for riders to do so. It might seem pedantic, but if we want to avoid incidents with oncoming traffic, enforcing this rule needs to be done with rigour. There is no need to cross the line; it's a choice some people make. If the road was 8ft wide, you'd either work your way through the group, or accept your race was run. If you knew crossing the white centre line meant being dq'd from the race, I'd say you'd do the same thing.

LeoD

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

I'm guessing you do it when it's safe, ie no oncoming traffic?

That's a very simplistic view. Let's say the road is clear and safe ahead so 30-40 riders at the back all pull out into the right lane and start moving up. After a 10-15 seconds, a car appears a few hundred metres ahead so now these 30-40 riders have to get back into the left lane but the left lane if full with the other 70-80 riders in the race. Now what happens? Do you expect the riders in the right lane to slow down and get into the left lane at the back again?

Raam

LeoD wrote: »

That's a very simplistic view. Let's say the road is clear and safe ahead so 30-40 riders at the back all pull out into the right lane and start moving up. After a 10-15 seconds, a car appears a few hundred metres ahead so now these 30-40 riders have to get back into the left lane but the left lane if full with the other 70-80 riders in the race. Now what happens? Do you expect the riders in the right lane to slow down and get into the left lane at the back again?

Well that would be safest.

LeoD

Lumen wrote: »

Seriously? That's racing. The same applies on closed roads where the peloton takes up both lanes.

That's not quite the same. The problem with open roads is that the 'virtual' road width keeps changing (depending if traffic is coming or not) so the peleton shape is constantly changing shape. It's this changing of shape that makes accidents more likely. Same happens with the pros when they go from wide to narrow roads.

dave_o_brien wrote: »

There is no need to cross the line; it's a choice some people make. If the road was 8ft wide, you'd either work your way through the group, or accept your race was run. If you knew crossing the white centre line meant being dq'd from the race, I'd say you'd do the same thing.

I would say over half the roads I race on don't have a white line so asking 100 competitors to stay inside an imaginary white line is fanciful.

LeoD

Raam wrote: »

Well that would be safest.

Yeah whatever but that's never going to happen. Everyone on the right will move to the left, simple as that.

Lumen

LeoD wrote: »

That's not quite the same. The problem with open roads is that the 'virtual' road width keeps changing (depending if traffic is coming or not) so the peleton shape is constantly changing shape. It's this changing of shape that makes accidents more likely. Same happens with the pros when they go from wide to narrow roads.

Regardless of the road markings, if you leave don't leave enough space for a van to pass on your right, then clearly, should a van appear at speed round the next blind bend you are going to either crash into the van or force the bunch on your left to compress.

What other approach would you suggest? Trusting to the gods?

dave_o_brien

Lumen wrote: »

Regardless of the road markings, if you leave don't leave enough space for a van to pass on your right, then clearly, should a van appear at speed round the next blind bend you are going to either crash into the van or force the bunch on your left to compress.

What other approach would you suggest? Trusting to the gods?

Ban all the vans!

buffalo

LeoD wrote: »

Everyone on the right will move to the left, simple as that.

And that's what causes crashes, and for the bunch to be squeezed and brakes to be hit, and angry words to be shouted.

dave_o_brien

LeoD wrote: »

That's not quite the same. The problem with open roads is that the 'virtual' road width keeps changing (depending if traffic is coming or not) so the peleton shape is constantly changing shape. It's this changing of shape that makes accidents more likely. Same happens with the pros when they go from wide to narrow roads.



I would say over half the roads I race on don't have a white line so asking 100 competitors to stay inside an imaginary white line is fanciful.

And I'd say all of the races I've ever done have been on open roads. You know, with the real likelihood of cars coming the opposite direction with legal right to the right side of the road. Why would I want to put myself there for a few places in an A4 sprint? Riders knowingly breaking the rules are running the risk of seriously injuring themselves or others by doing this. Dq's would be more than deserved.

Harrybelafonte

I guess we have our first candidate for road racing a creditation so.

It is simplistic, but seriously, is winning, or trying to win, an A4 race a greater priority than your safety or the safety of others?

As someone mentioned the track earlier: it has the benefit of having riders visible for monitoring the whole time. You mess up, they're more likely to see you and act on it.

chakattack

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

I guess we have our first candidate for road racing a creditation so.

It is simplistic, but seriously, is winning, or trying to win, an A4 race a greater priority than your safety or the safety of others?

As someone mentioned the track earlier: it has the benefit of having riders visible for monitoring the whole time. You mess up, they're more likely to see you and act on it.

It's the A4 paradox...unless you're willing to take stupid risks for the sake of an amateur hobby it can be hard to get upgraded.

Only 2 other options to get points

-> Superior timetrialling
-> Superior climbing

dedocdude

Theres no real point trying to interpret this rule - its a rule of racing - its a rule of the road - and its quite clear - ride on left - dont ride on right

When you choose to ignore rules there can be consequences -

Dont pay ur TV license? U might get someone calling round to check and if caught, you get a fine. D@mn taxes right?

Park your car in a loading bay? You might nip in and out of Spar before the traffic warden comes along, but u could also get a ticket, clamped or towed. Pain in the @$$ right?

Ride ur bike flat out on the wrong side of the road? What could possibly go wrong?

Lads im not trying to be a wise@$$ with these examples but in the light of two tragic accidents in the UK last weekend, I cant believe people think its ok or that there are cases where its ok for racers to occupy the wrong side of an open road.

morana

lets not assume its only a4 who break the rules, its not. The race I was in that was cancelled at that time the A4 didnt exist! I have being in first cat races with them attacking on the bend on the wrong side of the road.

wav1

I do think there is more education needed,but oddly enough I feel it should be geared towards those who are actually in charge of the lead vehicles etc.You can put a guy in to drive a lead car and he does just that.''Drive''If you have a guy driving who does just a few little things extra like beckoning to oncoming drivers to slow down etc it would help.Lead cars should be equipped with a PA system again to warn oncoming drivers.A motomarshall or two is also of the essence.Some oncoming cars just meet the lead car with in some cases just headlights on and sometimes the bunch is on top of them before they realise whats going on.Radio communication between lead cars and marshalls at upcoming junctions is also very important.Most importantly of all,if theres good relations between the promoters and the Garda its priceless,because one of those machines with a blue light on top is worth more than any promoter can put in place.A little education and common sense by both riders and promoters will just have to be brought to bear,as its the safety of the riders and the future of road racing as we know it thats at risk here.If we all end up beating around Corkagh Park and Mondello etc for the rest of your racing career,a little understanding will come very quickly

Casati

morana wrote: »

I think the accreditation should be done at club level. Last year we looked at introducing a letter of competency but didn't because we felt it would be difficult for club officials to stand over it and within limited resources we wouldn't be in a position to check them!

that's the value of a club, they teach you how to ride in a group how to move, hold your line, signals , gearing etc.

I have only been in 1 race which was stopped because of riders crossing the white line but it will become more common I am sure. If circuits could be one way it would help a lot. I believe we will always have crashes but its the ones with cars that are particularly dangerous.

The problem with clubs doing is that we have a lot of new clubs out there with riders with little or no racing experience. If CI did it, make it mandatory and charge for attendance I think it would be great- somebody like Paddy Doran could do a standard lecture type session at locations around the country. We have a lot of very strong riders coming from other sports who are strong but dont actually know the rules or protocols - some of them are riding top races but can't ride around a bend

DKO

When I did my first race 3 years ago I got a day licence and off I went, I read no rules, I saw how other riders went and copied what they did, quickly assuming at the time that crossing the white line was ok when safe to do so as everyone did it, sometimes it was marginal. I think perhaps if racing is going to take rules seriously then there should be a big A0 poster with the top 10 rules of road racing posted by the sign on at every race and of course enforce them... this might help remove some ambiguity.... And also send these out with licences.... Print them on the back of race numbers...

One thing that still confuses me are the finishes, it seems like some races hold the traffic when there is a bunch sprint and the sprint takes up the whole road, but other races do not, or some cars sneak through, I was in a sprint recently on the white line, I saw cars coming against me on the opposite side of the road and though well that's it then right hand side of road not an option, then lads tore through on the right hand side, car went onto hard shoulder and I was boxed out of it big time... The lads basically took the chance that they could force the car over and get an advantage, it worked. What is the story with finishes? I think the answer currently is 'how brazen are you' and 'suck it and see'!

One final thing.... I suppose that we should sometimes be careful what we wish for.... Zero tolerance might make for very different racing... Maybe much of the solution has to come from riders regulating ourselves....

Limiting field sizes has to done, its so counterintuitive having the newbie riders charge around 100 at a time, when there is maybe 40 in the experienced riders race.... (A3 is as bad as A4)...

emtroche

When i started racing there were only A's and B's and most of the time we were all thrown in together.

You learn pretty fast in a situation like that.

I've always found it a bit odd that cycling is one of the most dangerous sports going yet anybody can get a license and enter races. But i suppose that's one of the nice things about the sport too.

Beasty

One thing I would like to see is the abolition of the rule prohibiting club races at the weekend, at least for the first couple of months of the season.

Currently club racing can only take place from early April, when the clocks change, which means anyone new to racing who wants to give a race a go is naturally drawn to the early season open races. Every year we get reports of dangerous racing in large fields during February and March, but everything tends to quieten down a bit once club racing starts and racers have additional options. This also allows those new to racing a better choice to learn the ropes. My suggestion would be to allow clubs to run a couple of weekend races prior to the clocks going forward (possibly restricted to A4s and those with Club licences, which may take some of the pressure off the open races without diminishing fields too much)

buffalo

Beasty wrote: »

One thing I would like to see is the abolition of the rule prohibiting club races at the weekend, at least for the first couple of months of the season.

I didn't even know that was a rule - explains the ICL 'pre-season friendly'. What's the purpose of this rule?