Milk/Dairy; Good or Bad for health?

jripper

This one is bugging me and i'm sure there's going to be someone here who has done plenty research on the topic.

When i research this in google scholar i get mixed results insisting on the benfefits/detrimental effects of dairy. Also 'the china study' is mentioned quite a lot on both sides of the argument, some insisting it's proof and others saying the studies weren't sound.

Can anyone enlighten me on this or has a definitive answer simply not yet been found in nutritional science?

Sacksian

jripper wrote: »

This one is bugging me and i'm sure there's going to be someone here who has done plenty research on the topic.

When i research this in google scholar i get mixed results insisting on the benfefits/detrimental effects of dairy. Also 'the china study' is mentioned quite a lot on both sides of the argument, some insisting it's proof and others saying the studies weren't sound.

Can anyone enlighten me on this or has a definitive answer simply not yet been found in nutritional science?

So one of those Egg Council creeps got to you too, huh?

(wrong forum? --> http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=982 )

jripper

Never heard of any such council but thanks for the reply. Hah, i didn't even think to put this in the nutrition forum.. hopefully a mod will move it.

Jonny7

Sacksian wrote: »

So one of those Egg Council creeps got to you too, huh?

(wrong forum? --> http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=982 )

Sixtus

jripper wrote: »

This one is bugging me and i'm sure there's going to be someone here who has done plenty research on the topic.

When i research this in google scholar i get mixed results insisting on the benfefits/detrimental effects of dairy. Also 'the china study' is mentioned quite a lot on both sides of the argument, some insisting it's proof and others saying the studies weren't sound.

Can anyone enlighten me on this or has a definitive answer simply not yet been found in nutritional science?

Lactose intolerance is a genetic condition common in people of Asiatic heritage. Northern Europeans like us having eaten dairy as part of our diet for millennia are much more unlikely to have this intolerance. Put simply much as you wouldn't find a ginger Chinaman, you're unlikely to find a Irishman with lactose intolerance.

Torakx

Well unlikely to find an Irish person with lactose intolerance, who has not felt the dark hand of the medical community lol
Lactose intolerant Irishman here.
*cough*antibiotics*cough* sayin no more.

Maybe theres a CT floating around saying we are being fooled into thinking we need calcium from milk.
I eat salad so get loads afaik

Sixtus

Torakx wrote: »

Well unlikely to find an Irish person with lactose intolerance, who has not felt the dark hand of the medical community lol
Lactose intolerant Irishman here.
*cough*antibiotics*cough* sayin no more.

Maybe theres a CT floating around saying we are being fooled into thinking we need calcium from milk.
I eat salad so get loads afaik

May I ask who diagnosed you as lactose intolerant?

Torakx

Nobody diagnosed me, I just am intolerant to lactose.
I drink it I am sick, I drink lactose free or goatsmilk I am fine.
To me that means intolerant, I cant put up with it lol

Sixtus

Torakx wrote: »

Nobody diagnosed me, I just am intolerant to lactose.
I drink it I am sick, I drink lactose free or goatsmilk I am fine.
To me that means intolerant, I cant put up with it lol

Its common for people who are seeing chinese herbalists or acupuncturists to announce "I'm lactose intolerant" because lactose intolerance is common in their background. There's little evidence lactose intolerance is common in Ireland.

As to your lactose intolerance, I'd recommend you go see a doctor, self diagnosis isn't the best.

Torakx

Torakx wrote: »

Nobody diagnosed me, I just am intolerant to lactose.
I drink it I am sick, I drink lactose free or goatsmilk I am fine.
To me that means intolerant, I cant put up with it lol

Goat's milk contains lactose at only a slightly lower level than normal cow's milk.
You should actually talk to a doctor instead of diagnosing yourself.

Torakx

Sixtus wrote: »

Its common for people who are seeing chinese herbalists or acupuncturists to announce "I'm lactose intolerant" because lactose intolerance is common in their background. There's little evidence lactose intolerance is common in Ireland.

As to your lactose intolerance, I'd recommend you go see a doctor, self diagnosis isn't the best.

Well, "isnt the best", probably saved my life.the alternative you suggested has been done and caused alot of damage and would have lead to complete collapse of my bowels among many other things.
But thanks anyway, I will be fine.
No amount of medicine can replace a healthy diet imo.It may compliment sometimes, but people seem to forget that and think it can replace.
Even all Docs Ive visited before I addressed diet, never mentioned food at all.Except I should eat a large breakfast..probably because I was so thin and wasting away.Not due to lack of eating alot either.
Its like diet(the most important part of your health) doesnt even factor in!
Thats the conspiracy and I suppose a theory because its unspeakable and a censored issue and people will debate it with ferver.
Im not saying dont go see a doctor, that would legally be a bad thing to say.And I believe specialists are exactly that.
I am saying, research healthy eating and live a lot longer.

I wonder if the Doctor conspiracy theory could b discussed here fully.
may pm a mod about it and see if it can be arranged.
Would have to be heavily moderated though, ad for sure people will come on to deny the theory and scream medical advice!! shut her down boys!
Another CT in itself on the pharma corps.

Sixtus

Torakx wrote: »

Well, "isnt the best", probably saved my life.the alternative you suggested has been done and caused alot of damage and would have lead to complete collapse of my bowels among many other things.

Again is that a medical diagnosis and if so was it by a doctor?

But thanks anyway, I will be fine.
No amount of medicine can replace a healthy diet imo.

I'm stuck with a broken leg and needed major surgery I don't think 5 portions of fruit n veg would have fixed my leg, or provided me with the antibotics I needed after my surgery, and I think if you replaced my painkillers with a banana we would have words right now.

It may compliment sometimes, but people seem to forget that and think it can replace.
Even all Docs Ive visited before I addressed diet, never mentioned food at all.Except I should eat a large breakfast..probably because I was so thin and wasting away.Not due to lack of eating alot either.
Its like diet(the most important part of your health) doesnt even factor in!
Thats the conspiracy and I suppose a theory because its unspeakable and a censored issue and people will debate it with ferver.
Im not saying dont go see a doctor, that would legally be a bad thing to say.And I believe specialists are exactly that.
I am saying, research healthy eating and live a lot longer.

I wonder if the Doctor conspiracy theory could b discussed here fully.
may pm a mod about it and see if it can be arranged.
Would have to be heavily moderated though, ad for sure people will come on to deny the theory and scream medical advice!! shut her down boys!
Another CT in itself on the pharma corps.

Sensible advise from the mods.

Torakx if you are interesting in the state of modern pharmacy I'd recommend bad pharma by Ben Goldacre.

Sonics2k

Good for health, and it always has been. Especially for Europeans who have drunk it for consistently for thousands of years.

It's benefits have been proven and are openly visible to anyone who isn't insanely deluded.

/jog on

Torakx

Sixtus wrote: »

I'm stuck with a broken leg and needed major surgery I don't think 5 portions of fruit n veg would have fixed my leg, or provided me with the antibotics I needed after my surgery, and I think if you replaced my painkillers with a banana we would have words right now.

Plenty of things kill infection.If you have a healthy diet these things can pass through the blood stream quite effectively.Which is irrelevant and not what im talking about here.

I did say no amount of medicine can replace a healthy diet and also "It may compliment sometimes, but people seem to forget that and think it can replace."

Maybe you misunderstood?
I cant see how you took that as eat some fresh food to cure any issue.
Do you think I believe a banana could cure a broken leg by itself?
Ive left no reason to think so.
If you dont want to be serious and just take the p1ss, this probably isnt the best forum for that.
After hours could be more suitable?

weisses

Take a cow for a walk ... benefits you more then consuming dairy

Sixtus

Torakx wrote: »

Plenty of things kill infection.

We I could swallow bleach I mean bleach is a disinfectant right? So it could work.

If you have a healthy diet these things can pass through the blood stream quite effectively.

Please explain what food acts like antibotics.

Which is irrelevant and not what im talking about here.

Oh wow, I'm confused about what you said?

Torax wrote:

No amount of medicine can replace a healthy diet imo.

You said the above, which suggests that you think we don't need Chemo, Bone Marrow Transplants, Skin Grafts, Penicillin etc......

I did say no amount of medicine can replace a healthy diet and also "It may compliment sometimes, but people seem to forget that and think it can replace."

I'm fairly certain my diet couldn't have prevented my broken leg. I'm fairly certain diet couldn't have ruled out a possible spinal fracture like my MRI did. I'm fairly certain diet could not have rebullt my knee. And I'm absolutely positive I could not have used grapes as pain killers.

Maybe you misunderstood?

No I understand you are talking out of your ass. The fact you seem to diagnosis yourself with a near lethal case of lactose intolerance with getting a blood test to establish this marks you out as a idiot to me.

I cant see how you took that as eat some fresh food to cure any issue.
Do you think I believe a banana could cure a broken leg by itself?
Ive left no reason to think so.

Again YOU said THIS

Torax wrote:

No amount of medicine can replace a healthy diet imo.

Claiming it's my fault I misrepresented you, is absurd when you make vast sweeping statements like the above.

If you dont want to be serious and just take the p1ss, this probably isnt the best forum for that.
After hours could be more suitable?

So tell me who diagnosed your lactose problem?

Sixtus

weisses wrote: »

Take a cow for a walk ... benefits you more then consuming dairy

Dairy is a source for a huge amount of calories vitamins and minerals. Coming from a country that has for Millennium viewed cows and dairy produce as a incredible source of wealth (The Tain for example) it is patiently absurd.

This random everyone is allergy to wheat and dairy bull**** is summed up by.

SupaDupaFly

Sixtus wrote: »

Lactose intolerance is a genetic condition common in people of Asiatic heritage. Northern Europeans like us having eaten dairy as part of our diet for millennia are much more unlikely to have this intolerance. Put simply much as you wouldn't find a ginger Chinaman, you're unlikely to find a Irishman with lactose intolerance.

Just wanted to let you know my six month old son is lactose intolerant, as diagnosed but a paediatric team and nutritionist. He is Irish.

His second cousin who is also Irish is also lactose intolerant. Just thought I would let you know!

weisses

Sixtus wrote: »

Dairy is a source for a huge amount of calories vitamins and minerals. Coming from a country that has for Millennium viewed cows and dairy produce as a incredible source of wealth (The Tain for example) it is patiently absurd.

yeah its absurd ...:o

The Harvard School of Public Health sent a strong message to the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) and nutrition experts everywhere with the recent release of its “Healthy Eating Plate” food guide. The university was responding to the USDA’s new MyPlate guide for healthy eating, which replaced the outdated and misguided food pyramid.

Harvard’s nutrition experts did not pull punches, declaring that the university’s food guide was based on sound nutrition research and more importantly, not influenced by food industry lobbyists. The greatest evidence of its research focus is the absence of dairy products from the “Healthy Eating Plate” based on Harvard’s assessment that “…high intake can increase the risk of prostate cancer and possibly ovarian cancer.” The Harvard experts also referred to the high levels of saturated fat in most dairy products and suggested that collards, bok choy, fortified soy milk, and baked beans are safer choices than dairy for obtaining calcium, as are high quality supplements.

Kudos to Harvard for promoting greater consumption of vegetables and fruits, as well as healthier protein options such as fish, beans or nuts. And kudos to Harvard for ignoring the lobbyists and showing the USDA what healthy eating is all about.



http://www.care2.com/greenliving/harvard-declares-dairy-not-part-of-healthy-diet.html

Sixtus

SupaDupaFly wrote: »

Just wanted to let you know my six month old son is lactose intolerant, as diagnosed but a paediatric team and nutritionist. He is Irish.

His second cousin who is also Irish is also lactose intolerant. Just thought I would let you know!

Please I'm not deigning it's not possible, and doesn't happen anything but the sort. Your son was diagnosed by a medical expert and I totally believe that can and is possible.

My critique of the diagnosis of lactose intolerance by Torakx or others is just someone announcing they are lactose intolerance without engaging in the actual proper tests we have available to us to test for these issues. My sister announced she was lactose intolerant because her acupuncturist told her so. How on earth could they know!?!

Sixtus

weisses wrote: »

yeah its absurd ...:o

The Harvard School of Public Health sent a strong message to the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) and nutrition experts everywhere with the recent release of its “Healthy Eating Plate” food guide. The university was responding to the USDA’s new MyPlate guide for healthy eating, which replaced the outdated and misguided food pyramid.

Harvard’s nutrition experts did not pull punches, declaring that the university’s food guide was based on sound nutrition research and more importantly, not influenced by food industry lobbyists. The greatest evidence of its research focus is the absence of dairy products from the “Healthy Eating Plate” based on Harvard’s assessment that “…high intake can increase the risk of prostate cancer and possibly ovarian cancer.” The Harvard experts also referred to the high levels of saturated fat in most dairy products and suggested that collards, bok choy, fortified soy milk, and baked beans are safer choices than dairy for obtaining calcium, as are high quality supplements.

Kudos to Harvard for promoting greater consumption of vegetables and fruits, as well as healthier protein options such as fish, beans or nuts. And kudos to Harvard for ignoring the lobbyists and showing the USDA what healthy eating is all about.



http://www.care2.com/greenliving/harvard-declares-dairy-not-part-of-healthy-diet.html

Wait Weiss I'm confused if I can provide a Havard study that shows the WTC collapsed due to the planes and fires will you believe it.

As to you link. I for one, and you can check this thread, never said that Cows milk was a super food that we had to eat. It's good as part of a healthy diet. Bok Choy, nuts, soya milk etc weren't available to us until recently, and further more aren't available to everyone. Dairy is in Ireland. It's all very well suggesting healthier alternatives but what if those alternatives aren't available. Have you tried getting Bok Choy in a local shop in conemara?

Aquarius34

If we are supposed to drink milk it should be from our own species. No animal in nature drinks from another species and no animal drinks milk as they are older. I don't really eat dairy but I eat goats milk and cheese though. My body can take it well.

Torakx

Sixtus wrote: »

We I could swallow bleach I mean bleach is a disinfectant right? So it could work.

Ok I willl reply to you this time and if I get the same sarcasm and hate, I will just use the ignore function.
I think every single reply you made was dont out of spite for some reason and totally out of context, misrepresenting and judgemental aswell as presumptious...
Honestly, what happened!?!I had thought you were one of the reasonable people on boards.
Did I hit a nerve near your profession or something?

Do I need to explain why drinking bleach is a bad idea?

Please explain what food acts like antibotics.

I didnt say food acts as an antibiotic.I have a feeling that you wouldnt take on any input I gave in this area anyway.
But to be overly patient, I mentioned a good diet in relation to your body processing things better one example was through the bloodstream, a common way to fight infections.
Research would probably yield you some detailed answers.

Oh wow, I'm confused about what you said?



You said the above, which suggests that you think we don't need Chemo, Bone Marrow Transplants, Skin Grafts, Penicillin etc......

Again, no amout of medicine can replace a healthy diet.
This does not mean a healthy diet can fix mutated DNA for example, although I wouldnt count it out as i havent researched that area.
You presume way too much for it to be anywhere near to applying to my views.Please stop misrepresenting me.Represent yourself.

I'm fairly certain my diet couldn't have prevented my broken leg. I'm fairly certain diet couldn't have ruled out a possible spinal fracture like my MRI did. I'm fairly certain diet could not have rebullt my knee. And I'm absolutely positive I could not have used grapes as pain killers.

Im fairly certain you are correct in these statements.
Is this why I am recieving this attitude now?
Did I mention grapes?

No I understand you are talking out of your ass. The fact you seem to diagnosis yourself with a near lethal case of lactose intolerance with getting a blood test to establish this marks you out as a idiot to me.

You have no idea of my physical condition, I dont presume to know yours.Lets agree that we do not kow each other at all, as fact and have no right to make these presumptions.
I never said anything about a lethal case of lactose intolerance. ^^

Again YOU said THIS



Claiming it's my fault I misrepresented you, is absurd when you make vast sweeping statements like the above.

It is not I or I alone making vast sweeping statements, you have given me a good lesson in that, from looking at your apparently vehement replies.

So tell me who diagnosed your lactose problem?

My body.
Since My stomach cannot write me a letter but only give clear signs it does not accept somethig I must conclude it is intolerant to that which it does not tolerate.
Now, I did not say why it did not tolerate lactose and you may or may not have absolutely no idea.
But im sure what will follow will be more presumptions on something you have not much information to go on.

I actually get the feeling your job is related to this field of work.Nobody would try this hard to derail a thread, just because they were interested in chatting about it.
Since we do not know each other it most likely isnt personal.

Torakx

Sixtus wrote: »

Wait Weiss I'm confused if I can provide a Havard study that shows the WTC collapsed due to the planes and fires will you believe it.

As to you link. I for one, and you can check this thread, never said that Cows milk was a super food that we had to eat. It's good as part of a healthy diet. Bok Choy, nuts, soya milk etc weren't available to us until recently, and further more aren't available to everyone. Dairy is in Ireland. It's all very well suggesting healthier alternatives but what if those alternatives aren't available. Have you tried getting Bok Choy in a local shop in conemara?

Which tells us that studies and reports arent all they are made out to be right?
Or are you wong on the dairy issue and right on the world trade center?
Doesnt matter to me either way.I dont let others tell me how to live.I use my own judgement.Again dont presume please, to know my judgement on everything health wise or otherwise.

wth dont even mention soya.There is rarely a need to eat it.
Whats wrong with a good salad with a few sticks of celery!

weisses

Sixtus wrote: »

Wait Weiss I'm confused if I can provide a Havard study that shows the WTC collapsed due to the planes and fires will you believe it.

You seem to be confused a lot lately

Sixtus wrote: »

As to you link. I for one, and you can check this thread, never said that Cows milk was a super food that we had to eat. It's good as part of a healthy diet. Bok Choy, nuts, soya milk etc weren't available to us until recently, and further more aren't available to everyone. Dairy is in Ireland. It's all very well suggesting healthier alternatives but what if those alternatives aren't available. Have you tried getting Bok Choy in a local shop in conemara?

Did you read the link ?

The greatest evidence of its research focus is the absence of dairy products from the “Healthy Eating Plate” based on Harvard’s assessment that “…high intake can increase the risk of prostate cancer and possibly ovarian cancer.” The Harvard experts also referred to the high levels of saturated fat in most dairy products

jh79

Torakx wrote: »

Well, "isnt the best", probably saved my life.the alternative you suggested has been done and caused alot of damage and would have lead to complete collapse of my bowels among many other things.
But thanks anyway, I will be fine.
No amount of medicine can replace a healthy diet imo.It may compliment sometimes, but people seem to forget that and think it can replace.
Even all Docs Ive visited before I addressed diet, never mentioned food at all.Except I should eat a large breakfast..probably because I was so thin and wasting away.Not due to lack of eating alot either.
Its like diet(the most important part of your health) doesnt even factor in!
Thats the conspiracy and I suppose a theory because its unspeakable and a censored issue and people will debate it with ferver.
Im not saying dont go see a doctor, that would legally be a bad thing to say.And I believe specialists are exactly that.
I am saying, research healthy eating and live a lot longer.

I wonder if the Doctor conspiracy theory could b discussed here fully.
may pm a mod about it and see if it can be arranged.
Would have to be heavily moderated though, ad for sure people will come on to deny the theory and scream medical advice!! shut her down boys!
Another CT in itself on the pharma corps.

Probably because food intolerance testing is notoriously inaccurate. This was highlighted in yesterdays Indo.

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/health/what-these-doctors-would-never-prescribe-for-themselves-29108543.html

weisses

jh79 wrote: »

Probably because food intolerance testing is notoriously inaccurate. This was highlighted in yesterdays Indo.

And of course the total lack of nutrition instruction in medical education

http://www.aafp.org/online/en/home/publications/news/news-now/resident-student-focus/20101020nutritioneduc.html

jh79

weisses wrote: »

And of course the total lack of nutrition instruction in medical education

http://www.aafp.org/online/en/home/publications/news/news-now/resident-student-focus/20101020nutritioneduc.html[/QUOTE]

Well they promote a balanced diet and healthy living in general beyond that what more is there?

weisses

jh79 wrote: »

Well they promote a balanced diet and healthy living in general beyond that what more is there?

"The teaching of nutrition in U.S. medical schools still appears to be in a precarious position, lacking a firm, secure place in the medical curriculum of most medical schools," the study authors said. "Concerns remain that many future physicians will lack adequate preparation in this essential component of modern medical practice."

end quote

Did you read the article ?

Sixtus

weisses wrote: »

You seem to be confused a lot lately

I'm touched by your concern. Now please answer the question. If Havard or another reputable university published a study confirming how WTC 1&2 and WTC 7 would you believe it?

Did you read the link ?

Yes.

The greatest evidence of its research focus is the absence of dairy products from the “Healthy Eating Plate” based on Harvard’s assessment that “…high intake can increase the risk of prostate cancer and possibly ovarian cancer.” The Harvard experts also referred to the high levels of saturated fat in most dairy products

I've underlined the important part.

jh79

weisses wrote: »

"The teaching of nutrition in U.S. medical schools still appears to be in a precarious position, lacking a firm, secure place in the medical curriculum of most medical schools," the study authors said. "Concerns remain that many future physicians will lack adequate preparation in this essential component of modern medical practice."

end quote

Did you read the article ?

It depends on what you believe to be adequate means and what they believe it is? The Irish standard could be adequate to the US.

weisses

Sixtus wrote: »

I'm touched by your concern. Now please answer the question. If Havard or another reputable university published a study confirming how WTC 1&2 and WTC 7 would you believe it?

Based on what new evidence ? if they confirm the NIST/FEMA report to be fully accurate i would take Harvard less seriously yes

Sixtus wrote: »

I've underlined the important part.

You read it and do you agree with the article?

Wibbs

SupaDupaFly wrote: »

Just wanted to let you know my six month old son is lactose intolerant, as diagnosed but a paediatric team and nutritionist. He is Irish.

His second cousin who is also Irish is also lactose intolerant. Just thought I would let you know!

My mum was also diagnosed with it. One of her brothers ditto, though her other brother is fine. I appear to be a halfway house. No bother with it in tea, or cheese, but if I drank a glass of milk I'd get the liquid sitdowns for the day. So I may have a slight intolerance to it, but wouldn't be allergic. On the subject I recall reading somewhere that it might be how milk is now processed that makes it look like the intolerance you'd see with Asians. That raw milk might be tolerated more easily and raw milk is what Europeans have adapted to digest.

Aquarius34 wrote: »

If we are supposed to drink milk it should be from our own species. No animal in nature drinks from another species and no animal drinks milk as they are older. I don't really eat dairy but I eat goats milk and cheese though. My body can take it well.

True A, but we also consume grass seeds which is a bit odd and we cook our food and many human populations can consume and digest alcohol. It's one of the "killer apps" of modern humans, we can adapt to novel foods over time depending on environment. It doesn't seem to take too long either. One theory why there is a higher than average amount of diagnosed Coeliac disease in Ireland is because for a couple of centuries the potato replaced grains in many of our diets and some lost the ability to digest gluten in the interim. Certainly I'd be dubious about some so called health foods on this basis. Take soya as an example. Asians have been eating it for around two thousand years, but it's a novel food with novel proteins to the western digestive system and may not be a good plan. Never mind the hormone mimicking chemicals in it and many of the forms we consume it isn't found in the east(eg soya "milk").

weisses

jh79 wrote: »

It depends on what you believe to be adequate means and what they believe it is? The Irish standard could be adequate to the US.

It could also be worse

British example
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8572874.stm

Why do you think the Irish standard could be more adequate ?

jh79

weisses wrote: »

It could also be worse

British example
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8572874.stm

Why do you think the Irish standard could be more adequate ?

I was just pointing out that what we believe to be adequate is subjective.

The bbc link is strange alright, but maybe the doctors assume that the person at least feeds themselves and looks for other causes.

What do you believe are the areas they are deficient in? For me beyond the basics of a balance diet and stay away from processed food I can't see what else is there.

weisses

jh79 wrote: »

I was just pointing out that what we believe to be adequate is subjective.

The bbc link is strange alright, but maybe the doctors assume that the person at least feeds themselves and looks for other causes.

What do you believe are the areas they are deficient in? For me beyond the basics of a balance diet and stay away from processed food I can't see what else is there.

I do believe and that is more or less backed up that GP's are not trained enough in Nutrition and what it causes

My own example

Felt bloated for ages couldn't pin down the source went to GP and he prescribed me even heavier medicine to get rid of the bloated feeling .. That didn't really help ... So i took one of those "inaccurate" food intolerance tests .... got the results ... adapted my diet and never felt better ... as a test i started to take foods i was intolerable for and the symptoms came back within a week I spend 150 euro on GP visits and prescriptions that didn't help me . And I hear more story's talking to people that experienced similar things

jh79

weisses wrote: »

I do believe and that is more or less backed up that GP's are not trained enough in Nutrition and what it causes

My own example

Felt bloated for ages couldn't pin down the source went to GP and he prescribed me even heavier medicine to get rid of the bloated feeling .. That didn't really help ... So i took one of those "inaccurate" food intolerance tests .... got the results ... adapted my diet and never felt better ... as a test i started to take foods i was intolerable for and the symptoms came back within a week I spend 150 euro on GP visits and prescriptions that didn't help me . And I hear more story's talking to people that experienced similar things

But did you try more than one variant of the test and get the same result? Which? magazine got different results form each they did. It could of been complete luck on their part that the result actually picked up the allergen or it could have been placebo effect. How many things did they find you were allergic to? They tend to give a range of foods, kinda increases the chance of hitting the right one?

blatantrereg

Info:

• Cancer rates tend to be higher in countries where dairy is consumed a lot compared with ones where it's not. Don't remember the details of that or other factors considered.
  
• Most animals can't consume milk after they pass infancy. [Most] humans have a mutation that allows them to digest lactose.
  
• There are theories that it causes calcium to be leaked from bones. Sounds odd given it is generally considered an excellent source of calcium. I have a relation who's consumed plenty of dairy though and now has some sort of bone/calcium issue. So it is something that warrants further investigation I think, rather than something that should be dismissed just because it's counter-intuitive.
  
• Milk contains lots of hormones. This is much more of a consideration in the USA where growth hormones are used on cattle that are illegal in Ireland (probably in the EU in general). However there's little doubt that you're getting some sort of dose of hormones when you drink milk. It is one of the reasons people involved in strength related sports consume lots of it in fact - it's a source of IGF. Might consuming hormones meant for a calf (as well as artificial hormones if you're American) have negative effects including causing cancer? It's something to consider at least.
  
• Milk contains casomorphine - which is a type of morphine. Humans are not supposed to metabolise it usually. There is a calming effect of consuming dairy though so maybe we're getting something off it. You don't get the same effect from consuming soy milk, which is similar in composition of fats/sugars/fluids etc also.
  
  [Soy is a whole different discussion really, though it is relevant since it's the most common milk substitute and the only one that contains a good range of amino acids. My own conclusions regarding it are that it's best not to consume unfermented soy excessively and best not to consume GM soy at all.]
  
• One of the most clear cut factors is the report by the UN that humans will have to adopt a vegetarian dairy free diet in order to handle the upcoming global food shortage. It's just not the most efficient way of producing food, and as the global population increases efficient food production stops just being sensible and becomes a requirement. So in the long term dairy is very bad for human health since the land and resources involved in its production will be needed for more efficient foods just to be able to feed everyone.
  
• Another clear cut factor that is also indirect is the contribution of the dairy industry to global warming. Cows are fart machines, and they fart greenhouse gas (methane). The dairy industry is one of the major sources of greenhouse gases in fact. Global warming is bad for your health.
  
• Milk is a source of saturated fat and can contribute to unhealthy cholesterol levels. Processed foods especially hydrogenated oils and margarine are more of a concern in that regard.
  
• Milk is a good source of protein. One of the types of protein in it is metabolised slowly (casein). This is another aspect of it considered useful by many strength athletes who aim to keep plenty of amino acids available in their body all the time. It provides a broad range of amino acids (similar to meat).
  
• Cow milk consumption can encourage mucus production. Some asthmatics are advised to remove any cow's milk or dairy products from their diets because of this. Not sure if it's a factor for non-asthmatics at all.
  
• Specific milk products have a demonstrable positive effect on intestinal bacteria, which can improve your immune system/digestion. The actual quantity of dairy involved can be relatively small though.

My own conclusion is that from an ethical standpoint milk consumption would be best eliminated altogether (this relates to other factors not discussed here as well). From a health standpoint it's best not to consume dairy in excess.

Personally I limit my consumption of it but don't eliminate it. I use soy milk instead of cow's milk, and don't eat much in the way of dairy products.

jh79

What would be considered a high intake of dairy for week?

Hoop66

It's starting to look, from most recent genetic research, that lactose-intolerance was the norm amongst early man.
What has happened, especially with the Northern Europeans, is that the rarer lactose-tolerant genes have become dominant becasue it allowed those with the lactase-producing gene to consume the high calorie, nutrient rich cows milk and so prosper.

Interesting paper here about the coevolution of the cattle milk protein genes and the human lactase genes.

Edited to add: You can take my cheese when you pry it from my cold, dead hand.

weisses

jh79 wrote: »

But did you try more than one variant of the test and get the same result? Which? magazine got different results form each they did. It could of been complete luck on their part that the result actually picked up the allergen or it could have been placebo effect. How many things did they find you were allergic to? They tend to give a range of foods, kinda increases the chance of hitting the right one?

Biggest one was egg white

And no i do not believe this to be a placebo thing ... had more faith in GP on this one and his remedies didn't help either so i would expect more placebo effect there

After changing diets i felt 10x better no bloating ... much fitter

I am planning on doing another one later in the year different test different person and see what it says ...

weisses

Hoop66 wrote: »

Edited to add: You can take my MELTED cheese when you pry it from my cold, dead hand.

fixed that one

Torakx

weisses wrote: »

Biggest one was egg white

And no i do not believe this to be a placebo thing ... had more faith in GP on this one and his remedies didn't help either so i would expect more placebo effect there

After changing diets i felt 10x better no bloating ... much fitter

I am planning on doing another one later in the year different test different person and see what it says ...

Some diseases mimic celiacs and other intolerances.
This is/was my situation.
I used to be allergic to eggs for example, after a high dose of antibiotics and a few years of leaky gut syndrome that followed.
Even the smell of eggs made me feel sick.
After much depression and suicidal thoughts, I researched diet and went on a restricted diet.My gut healed after a few months and I am now making eggs for breakfast and I love them!

I do see a use for specialised doctors and even for the regular GP.
Its just I only trust them with certain tests that I cant do myself or certain medical procedures I may need or operations.
Your average health issue can be solved by your own body, is my belief.

On the milk topic, it seems to me, as mentioned before, animals dont need to drink milk in adulthood.Humans seemed to have relied on it in the past.
Nowadays we dont NEED it.It can be a part of a healthy diet, but I would say not neccesarily the healthy part, unless you cant eat meat and veg.
I get plenty of calcium from veg.And too high a protein diet apparently lowers your calcium, as thats used to get rid of the protein.
I think this is why some body builders get cancer.They eat too much protein by far and adding milk to that is just more protein and fat and lowers calcium and then prevents the system form getting rid of the left over proteins.Which im guessing could lead to bowel cancer and ther cancers relating to that area.
But just a theory lol

Wibbs

jh79 wrote: »

What would be considered a high intake of dairy for week?

If you're ending your sentences with "moo" after a month, probably best to knock it on the head for a bit

Aquarius34

I have always been uncomfortable with the idea of eating dairy and especially since the media seem to want it rammed down on our throats. I can remember as a child seeing constant adverts on it. Cereals coke and milk was one of the most advertised foods on T.V. Even in school it was all programming kids to drink milk. Children can tolerate milk more than adults and that is because children are growing and milk does have the right nutrients for growing children, but It doesn't seem right for adults to drink it. We should really be drinking our own milk if we were to drink milk. If there was such an emphasis on trying to get us to take calcium why haven't they made any awareness to calcium in other foods and calcium is easier absorbable in other foods.

hooradiation

Aquarius34 wrote: »

I have always been uncomfortable with the idea of eating dairy

Aquarius34 wrote: »

I eat goats milk and cheese

I hate to break this to you, but that goats milk and cheese, they're dairy.

Aquarius34

hooradiation wrote: »

I hate to break this to you, but that goats milk and cheese, they're dairy.

Hooradiation, are you like 12 or what? You always come on threads with this attitude to try be the smarty pants here. I've explained this earlier on the thread if you actually took time to read the thread before you come in with your kneejerk comments.

I don't really eat dairy so much but I do drink goats milk. I don't drink it often. My body can take goats milk but it can't take cows milk.

--Kaiser--

Just to clarify a few things, you cannot be allergic to lactose as it is not a protein. You can be intolerant to it though. If you are allergic to milk then you are allergic to casein. Most Europeans would be neither intolerant to lactose nor allergic to casein.

Also someone mentioned the China Study, I am obliged to present a thorough debunking of said study

hooradiation

Aquarius34 wrote: »

I don't really eat dairy so much but I do drink goats milk.

Yes, but, and this is the important part, goats milk and cheese are dairy.
There's not much point saying you don't consume it and that people ought to not consume it then following that up by saying "I consume dairy".


And I wouldn't be so quick to postulate that i'm twelve, if it were true then that would mean you are in the unenviable position of having the flaws in your ideas pointed out to you by a prepubescent child.

Torakx

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Just to clarify a few things, you cannot be allergic to lactose as it is not a protein. You can be intolerant to it though. If you are allergic to milk then you are allergic to casein. Most Europeans would be neither intolerant to lactose nor allergic to casein.

Also someone mentioned the China Study, I am obliged to present a thorough debunking of said study

Good point on the lactose issue.
In my case its because of the sugars.
Do you know if casein is in lactose free milk and goats milk?
Because those seem to be ok for me in general.

I did hear that casein can cause mucus build upas the body tries to get rid of it.If thats true then it seems it may be bad for you if the body is trying to push it out.
It should either process it or run it through without issue.

--Kaiser--

Torakx wrote: »

Good point on the lactose issue.
In my case its because of the sugars.
Do you know if casein is in lactose free milk and goats milk?
Because those seem to be ok for me in general.

I did hear that casein can cause mucus build upas the body tries to get rid of it.If thats true then it seems it may be bad for you if the body is trying to push it out.
It should either process it or run it through without issue.

Goats milk has less casein and a different type of casein if I recall correctly.

I think the mucus production thing is a myth