Working hours for Nurses.

Xenophile

Nurses should be on a 39 hour week.

Liam Doran was far too smart to have their hours reduced some years ago. But I suppose he had to be seen to do something to justify his own high salary. The interesting thing is that no sooner had he achieved this, in the good times, that the Gardaí were straight in saying we don't want a pay increase just give us a shorter working week.

In hindsight Liam Doran was leading us down the Greek road and we know where they are today with an unemployment rate of about 65% for those aged under 25.

Put nurses back on a 39 hour week with this sweetener, job sharing 19 or 20 hours to go to a trainee nurse nominated by themselves, a son, daughter, niece, nephew or the sibling of a good friend. Only nurses who have a proven track record of good service should be eligible for this scheme, and their record of sick leave should be taken into consideration in this context.

Sick pay among nurses if far too high, let those who are able and want to work 39 hours do so. And let job sharing be available to others.

Gumbo

Xenophile wrote: »

Nurses should be on a 39 hour week.

Liam Doran was far too smart to have their hours reduced some years ago. But I suppose he had to be seen to do something to justify his own high salary. The interesting thing is that no sooner had he achieved this, in the good times, that the Gardaí were straight in saying we don't want a pay increase just give us a shorter working week.

In hindsight Liam Doran was leading us down the Greek road and we know where they are today with an unemployment rate of about 65% for those aged under 25.

Put nurses back on a 39 hour week with this sweetener, job sharing 19 or 20 hours to go to a trainee nurse nominated by themselves, a son, daughter, niece, nephew or the sibling of a good friend. Only nurses who have a proven track record of good service should be eligible for this scheme, and their record of sick leave should be taken into consideration in this context.

Sick pay among nurses if far too high, let those who are able and want to work 39 hours do so. And let job sharing be available to others.

God, this nurse bashing is really getting tired.

Xenophile

kceire wrote: »

God, this nurse bashing is really getting tired.

Some nurses are already tired, job sharing would help them, focus on the positive in this suggestion.

Gumbo

Xenophile wrote: »

Some nurses are already tired, job sharing would help them, focus on the positive.

Why would they agree to a 50% pay cut?

OMD

kceire wrote: »

Why would they agree to a 50% pay cut?

Doing half the work means they get paid half but their take home pay would only reduce by about 30% or so. For many people working part time is a very sensible option especially those with children.

Gumbo

OMD wrote: »

Doing half the work means they get paid half but their take home pay would only reduce by about 30% or so. For many people working part time is a very sensible option especially those with children.

So essentially your asking a newly trained nurse to work part time for approx 12k. They be better off on the dole and much better off getting a job where they are respected like america, Australia, Canada or even the UK.

Xenophile

kceire wrote: »

Why would they agree to a 50% pay cut?

Maybe some reaching retirement age would like to see their children get a start in life. And this is not about a pay cut but in many cases a 50% increase in their free time.

Xenophile

kceire wrote: »

So essentially your asking a newly trained nurse to work part time for approx 12k. They be better off on the dole and much better off getting a job where they are respected like america, Australia, Canada or even the UK.

For many the experience of living in a different country and culture is a very positive thing. For those who would like it, I say go for it as it can be very enriching in your life experience.

OMD

kceire wrote: »

So essentially your asking a newly trained nurse to work part time for approx 12k. They be better off on the dole and much better off getting a job where they are respected like america, Australia, Canada or even the UK.

To be honest I think we have far too many nurses in this country and need a massive reduction. The only option I see for nurses who want to remain nurses is to emigrate.

Gumbo

Xenophile wrote: »

Maybe some reaching retirement age would like to see their children get a start in life. And this is not about a pay cut but in many cases a 50% increase in their free time.

Yeah I can see the logic, but done HSE employees already have an option to work part time if there is another person to share the other half of the work load?

OMD wrote: »

To be honest I think we have far too many nurses in this country and need a massive reduction. The only option I see for nurses who want to remain nurses is to emigrate.

I don't know about that. I had a stay in St. James in mid 2012 and there was one nurse on my ward and she had to serve a good few others too. I'm not sure of exact work load but she certainly seemed snowed under and could of done with an extra pair of hands. For example, the contracted cleaning crew in the morning got 2 staff per ward to change the beds.

Xenophile

OMD wrote: »

To be honest I think we have far too many nurses in this country and need a massive reduction. The only option I see for nurses who want to remain nurses is to emigrate.

Not the only option but a good option for many young nurses.

Miss Lockhart

So what you're saying is that wealthy families could give their relatives or friends a chance of low paid work experience, with an older established nurse in the family job sharing with a younger member, who said family can no doubt afford to support. Meanwhile unconnected young nurses or those from less well off families are disadvantaged.

Just when you think this forum can't get any more ridiculous and certain posters can't get any more out of touch with reality.

OMD

kceire wrote: »

Yeah I can see the logic, but done HSE employees already have an option to work part time if there is another person to share the other half of the work load?



I don't know about that. I had a stay in St. James in mid 2012 and there was one nurse on my ward and she had to serve a good few others too. I'm not sure of exact work load but she certainly seemed snowed under and could of done with an extra pair of hands. For example, the contracted cleaning crew in the morning got 2 staff per ward to change the beds.

Overall nursing numbers are too high. The organisation of where nurses are though is wrong. Many wards are short staffed yet still in 2013 we have nurses in out patients. I don't mean clinical nurse specialists but ordinary nurses taking pulse, BP and other such nonsense. All nurses should be moved from out patients. In addition we have too many middle management nurses. Basically if the nurse is not seeing patients we should look at getting rid if his/her post.

murphaph

kceire wrote: »

I don't know about that. I had a stay in St. James in mid 2012 and there was one nurse on my ward and she had to serve a good few others too. I'm not sure of exact work load but she certainly seemed snowed under and could of done with an extra pair of hands. For example, the contracted cleaning crew in the morning got 2 staff per ward to change the beds.

Maybe her extra pair of hands was off sick after a night on the lash?

I'm guessing the contracted cleaning crew (something nurses used to do in Ireland) are on a much lower salary than the nurse.

I'm sick of the almost beatification of nurses that goes on here by some. I worked in the pub trade during my college years. I worked in Phibsborough and around that area. I can tell you right now that nurses were regularly getting absolutely sh!tfaced in McGowans etc. and heading into Coppers afterwards (or upstairs in McGowans) and (trying) to look after patients the next day in the Mater.

Gumbo

murphaph wrote: »

Maybe her extra pair of hands was off sick after a night on the lash?

I'm guessing the contracted cleaning crew (something nurses used to do in Ireland) are on a much lower salary than the nurse.

I'm sick of the almost beatification of nurses that goes on here by some. I worked in the pub trade during my college years. I worked in Phibsborough and around that area. I can tell you right now that nurses were regularly getting absolutely sh!tfaced in McGowans etc. and heading into Coppers afterwards (or upstairs in McGowans) and (trying) to look after patients the next day in the Mater.

I've done the same meself. I've been out on the lash and then certified foundations the following day as being safe to build on. Private sector job, I kid you not, private sector people drink too

So lets not make out that public servants are the only people out for a drink FFS.

creedp

murphaph wrote: »

I'm sick of the almost beatification of nurses that goes on here by some. I worked in the pub trade during my college years. I worked in Phibsborough and around that area. I can tell you right now that nurses were regularly getting absolutely sh!tfaced in McGowans etc. and heading into Coppers afterwards (or upstairs in McGowans) and (trying) to look after patients the next day in the Mater.

Presumably it was only nurses who were out on the lash on the northside? Also the thing to remember about nurses is that they work on a 24/7 roster -how many of the sh1tfaced nurses were starting at 8 or 9 am the following morning?

A reminder that this is politics, not ranting and raving

thanks

murphaph

kceire wrote: »

I've done the same meself. I've been out on the lash and then certified foundations the following day as being safe to build on. Private sector job, I kid you not, private sector people drink too

So lets not make out that public servants are the only people out for a drink FFS.

I wasn't. You missed my point. I was pointing out that nurses are just workers like the rest of us, not all Florence Nightingale type characters that only think about their patients.

They should not be held up on a pedestal. They don't even do the sh!t work that nurses did 30 years ago as a matter of routine. Nursing is now a profession, which is what the INO wanted it to become, so they should quit using the Florence Nightingale image to garner public support and the public should wise up and realise that nursing is just another job.

Xenophile

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

So what you're saying is that wealthy families could give their relatives or friends a chance of low paid work experience, with an older established nurse in the family job sharing with a younger member, who said family can no doubt afford to support. Meanwhile unconnected young nurses or those from less well off families are disadvantaged.

Just when you think this forum can't get any more ridiculous and certain posters can't get any more out of touch with reality.

Sometimes life is more about compromise rather than conflict. Disadvantage, maybe, but remember cream always rises to the top. As the saying goes "You can't keep a good person down"

Miss Lockhart

Xenophile wrote: »

Sometimes life is more about compromise rather than conflict.

Is there a point to this psuedo philosophical nonsense?

Xenophile wrote:

Disadvantage, maybe, but remember cream always rises to the top. As the saying goes "You can't keep a good person down"

Well it seems like you want to try pretty damn hard.

Xenophile

Why personalise it ?

grid_locked

murphaph wrote: »

I wasn't. You missed my point. I was pointing out that nurses are just workers like the rest of us, not all Florence Nightingale type characters that only think about their patients.

They should not be held up on a pedestal. They don't even do the sh!t work that nurses did 30 years ago as a matter of routine. Nursing is now a profession, which is what the INO wanted it to become, so they should quit using the Florence Nightingale image to garner public support and the public should wise up and realise that nursing is just another job.

nurses reserve a special place in a lot of irish peoples hearts, this is due to the fact that traditionally a very high percentage of irish women worked as nurses , both here and abroad , we tend to be very sentimental about them as to diss a nurse is often to badmouth ones own mother

my mother is a retired nurse but like guard , i agree that 80% sign up for a steady paycheck and generous pension

Paulzx

Xenophile wrote: »

nominated by themselves, a son, daughter, niece, nephew or the sibling of a good friend. .

I thought only politicians could get away with that type of scam.

Paulzx

grid_locked wrote: »

, i agree that 80% sign up for a steady paycheck and generous pension

Work??.....for a steady paycheck.....sort of like having a job to support yourself.......No Sh*T sherlock

grid_locked

Paulzx wrote: »

Work??.....for a steady paycheck.....sort of like having a job to support yourself.......No Sh*T sherlock

thats right , very few are idealogicaly driven or see it as a vocation

thats why the banal eulogising is so tedious , same with guards

Xenophile

Paulzx wrote: »

I thought only politicians could get away with that type of scam.

As so many people perceive themselves to be unfairly treated this is what you might call " a carrot and stick approach"

femur61

kceire wrote: »

God, this nurse bashing is really getting tired.

There is a point though why are the rest of us working 39 hours but again in compared to other areas of the public sector they they aren't getting such a good deal. e.g secondary school teacher (a friend) is on €61,500 for 8 months work, she was on €63,000. In reality that would be over €100,000 for 12 months so I think teachers are better off than nurses as far as public sector jobs go. Personally, for all the money in the world I wouldn't do nursing - hard job.

Farmer Pudsey

Xenophile wrote: »

Nurses should be on a 39 hour week.

Liam Doran was far too smart to have their hours reduced some years ago. But I suppose he had to be seen to do something to justify his own high salary. The interesting thing is that no sooner had he achieved this, in the good times, that the Gardaí were straight in saying we don't want a pay increase just give us a shorter working week.

In hindsight Liam Doran was leading us down the Greek road and we know where they are today with an unemployment rate of about 65% for those aged under 25.

Put nurses back on a 39 hour week with this sweetener, job sharing 19 or 20 hours to go to a trainee nurse nominated by themselves, a son, daughter, niece, nephew or the sibling of a good friend. Only nurses who have a proven track record of good service should be eligible for this scheme, and their record of sick leave should be taken into consideration in this context.

Sick pay among nurses if far too high, let those who are able and want to work 39 hours do so. And let job sharing be available to others.

The reason nurses working week was shortened was that most Admin staff were on less than a 35 hour week. and a lot of other health professionals (physio's, counsellors etc) were on more money and less hours. In reality because they are mainly a female occupation they have tended to be 5h1t on over the years by managment. Even the change from on site training to university training was more a university/ managment idea rather than nursing lead.

Historically they had split shift working after it was abandoned elsewhere in other industries. This idea that you could pull someone else into a job is somthing that we have being trying to get away from.

If we have too many nurses then it a case of other people with in the system are not doing there job. OMD it is a nurses job to take your pulse and blood pressure I for one would not be happy with untrained staff doing that. Murphaph it is not only young nurses that drink too much ion genneral most young students/workers go on the lash too much.

I came accross a few articles recently about MRSA etc and part of the problem seemed to be the removal of responbility of hospital hygene from Nurses to cleaning/care staff.

The HSE has a huge issue with Administration there are too many generating work for themselves. Again this is not a nursing issue but it deplets resourses and again shows the failure of middle managment accross the PS

monkeypants

Xenophile wrote: »

Sick pay among nurses if far too high

Could that have anything to do with spending their working time with sick people? Should sick nurses come in to work regardless and risk infecting other staff and patients?

Xenophile

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

The reason nurses working week was shortened was that most Admin staff were on less than a 35 hour week. and a lot of other health professionals (physio's, counsellors etc) were on more money and less hours. In reality because they are mainly a female occupation they have tended to be 5h1t on over the years by managment. Even the change from on site training to university training was more a university/ managment idea rather than nursing lead.

Historically they had split shift working after it was abandoned elsewhere in other industries. This idea that you could pull someone else into a job is somthing that we have being trying to get away from.

If we have too many nurses then it a case of other people with in the system are not doing there job. OMD it is a nurses job to take your pulse and blood pressure I for one would not be happy with untrained staff doing that. Murphaph it is not only young nurses that drink too much ion genneral most young students/workers go on the lash too much.

I came accross a few articles recently about MRSA etc and part of the problem seemed to be the removal of responbility of hospital hygene from Nurses to cleaning/care staff.

The HSE has a huge issue with Administration there are too many generating work for themselves. Again this is not a nursing issue but it deplets resourses and again shows the failure of middle managment accross the PS

Thank you for bringing the hours of admin and other health care workers into the picture. At the time we had a very weak Government who always took the easy option.

As far as I am concerned my priorities are

1 The patient.
2 The nurses

This government would be very silly to let the chance go of implementing intelligent and necessary reforms. We are a broke little country but we can put it right.

Paarthurnax

Most nurses work 39 hours plus at the moment anyway, due to the nature of the working in a 24/7 field its not possible to just down tools or shut up shop at the end of shift. Nurses either come in earlier, or go home later than rostered for handover. Nurses very often have to for go breaks due to unforeseen circumstances that occur, eg; emergencies, admissions, assaults, staff shortages, liaising with family members etc etc....

If any of the "bashers" posting on this thread would like to step up and do the job - feel free to change career and go back and do nursing.

Paulzx

grid_locked wrote: »

thats right , very few are idealogicaly driven or see it as a vocation

thats why the banal eulogising is so tedious , same with guards

Who gives a damn whether they are "idealogically driven" (whatever it means) once they do their jobs properly.

Does an accountant need to be "idealogically driven" to be good at his job?.......or is he just another worker in it for the wage?

Barracuda1

The job of a nurse is not ordinary. A nurse has to face anything every start of shift. I for one could not face some of the suitations they do. I am all for keeping expense down but they deserve every penny they get.

woodoo

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

The HSE has a huge issue with Administration there are too many generating work for themselves. Again this is not a nursing issue but it deplets resourses and again shows the failure of middle managment accross the PS

Aren't middle management a major problem in themselves. Too many of them.

murphaph

Barracuda1 wrote: »

The job of a nurse is not ordinary. A nurse has to face anything every start of shift. I for one could not face some of the suitations they do. I am all for keeping expense down but they deserve every penny they get.

What if they earned double what they currently earn? Would you continue to have no objection?

Many people face worse every day. What about the slaughterhouse worker who cleans the intestines out of what will be your steak dinner? It's a disgusting job that I wouldn't do, but they don't deserve more than they earn. They get the rate their employer can afford.

creedp

murphaph wrote: »

What if they earned double what they currently earn? Would you continue to have no objection?

Many people face worse every day. What about the slaughterhouse worker who cleans the intestines out of what will be your steak dinner? It's a disgusting job that I wouldn't do, but they don't deserve more than they earn. They get the rate their employer can afford.

I dont get it? Why the intense negativity?

Stereomaniac

I think someone is very frustrated with some of the hardest working people in the country. Yikes.

sparky32

Xenophile, why do you have a very negative towards nurses? Have you ever been in hospital?Have you actually noted the amount of work done by nurses? It's the nurses who work hardest out of all the different professions on the wards. We deserve to be paid a lot more than we do get and we have taken cuts just like other professions. As someone else said in this thread we don't necessarily work a set 37.5 hrs each week, it very often happens that we may have to go in earlier or stay on later. I'm unsure as to why you are so angry...?? :cool:

ballyharpat

sparky32 wrote: »

Xenophile, why do you have a very negative towards nurses? Have you ever been in hospital?Have you actually noted the amount of work done by nurses? It's the nurses who work hardest out of all the different professions on the wards. We deserve to be paid a lot more than we do get and we have taken cuts just like other professions. As someone else said in this thread we don't necessarily work a set 37.5 hrs each week, it very often happens that we may have to go in earlier or stay on later. I'm unsure as to why you are so angry...?? :cool: [/B]

haha, wow sprky, chill out, no need for the bold. Did you make a decision to become a nurse? and you knew what it entailed? Handover is paid for in most public and private facilities. What about Health Care Assistants? They are not well paid in most cases in the private sector, but they deal with a lot more of the difficult situations, in general, than the nurses do.......

Paarthurnax

ballyharpat wrote: »

haha, wow sprky, chill out, no need for the bold. Did you make a decision to become a nurse? and you knew what it entailed? Handover is paid for in most public and private facilities. What about Health Care Assistants? They are not well paid in most cases in the private sector, but they deal with a lot more of the difficult situations, in general, than the nurses do.......

I work in the private sector and have worked in the public sector - handover isn't or wasn't paid for in either.

Agreed that HCAs are not well paid in the private sector and do work hard, but the buck doesn't stop with them. Dealing with more different situations in general depends on your perspective.

As for this notion that you knew what you were getting into when you choose to become a nurse - that's fine if you have adequate resources, staffing levels and not putting yourself at risk on a daily basis.

Paarthurnax

murphaph wrote: »

What if they earned double what they currently earn? Would you continue to have no objection?

Many people face worse every day. What about the slaughterhouse worker who cleans the intestines out of what will be your steak dinner? It's a disgusting job that I wouldn't do, but they don't deserve more than they earn. They get the rate their employer can afford.

Are you suggesting then that Nurses are highly overpaid or that they don't work hard enough for there money. Compared to what?? A slaughter house worker?

Paarthurnax wrote: »

I work as a Mental Health Nurse in the private sector €17.00 per hour.
My equivalent pay working for the HSE would be €16.00 per hour (Increment 4 on the pay scale. Now €15.38 per hour with the new 39 hour week.
My equivalent pay working for the NHS in UK would be around €14.00 per hour ( Band 5 Increment 4)
.

ballyharpat

Paarthurnax wrote: »

I work in the private sector and have worked in the public sector - handover isn't or wasn't paid for in either.

Agreed that HCAs are not well paid in the private sector and do work hard, but the buck doesn't stop with them. Dealing with more different situations in general depends on your perspective.

As for this notion that you knew what you were getting into when you choose to become a nurse - that's fine if you have adequate resources, staffing levels and not putting yourself at risk on a daily basis.

I know of two private sector facilities that are paid for handover. I cannot say whether they are paid for in the public sector.

There are very few nurses putting themselves at 'risk' on a daily basis....

It's a job, like anything, some of us are cut out for that line of work, some are not. Some are cut out for sitting behind a desk all day, some are not....some are cut out for looking at computer screens, some are teachers.....the end of a day it's a job, I could not be a pre-school teacher, no matter how much they paid me, but that doesn't mean it should be paid a high wage....

Barracuda1

murphaph wrote: »

What if they earned double what they currently earn? Would you continue to have no objection?

Many people face worse every day. What about the slaughterhouse worker who cleans the intestines out of what will be your steak dinner? It's a disgusting job that I wouldn't do, but they don't deserve more than they earn. They get the rate their employer can afford.

Its a bit different that facing into a road accident where there are multiple casualties and horrific injuries. The primary difference being human and animal.

creedp

Barracuda1 wrote: »

Its a bit different that facing into a road accident where there are multiple casualties and horrific injuries. The primary difference being human and animal.

We might have got the wrong end of the stick here .. maybe Murph is actually calling for the slashing of slaughterhouse workers wages because their job is less complex and they are only dealing with animals

murphaph

creedp wrote: »

I dont get it? Why the intense negativity?

It's called realism. Nursing is far from the worst or hardest job in the world. It's just a job and no sentiment should be attached to it.

creedp

murphaph wrote: »

It's called realism. Nursing is far from the worst or hardest job in the world. It's just a job and no sentiment should be attached to it.

Where has anybody said it is the hardest or worst job in the world? It also seems to me that it is people who are denouncing nurses that keep referring to the florence nightingale cliche. I think most would accept it is a responsible job requiring a high level of expertise and should attract a decent salary and working conditions. As for what is an appropriate rate .. I think it is telling that a private hospital recently ran a recruitment campaign offering 20% above the current HSE nursing rate (or 40% above the so called yellow pack rate). Now does this mean that this private hospital is offering the apropriate going rate for the job? Why would a private hospital offer a 20% premium on the HSE rate?

jimmycrackcorm

Paarthurnax wrote: »

Most nurses work 39 hours plus at the moment anyway, due to the nature of the working in a 24/7 field its not possible to just down tools or shutshe shop at the end of shift. Nurses either come in earlier, or go home later than rostered for handover. Nurses very often have to for go breaks due to unforeseen circumstances that occur, eg; emergencies, admissions, assaults, staff shortages, liaising with family members etc etc....

If any of the "bashers" posting on this thread would like to step up and do the job - feel free to change career and go back and do nursing.

Very true. My OH is a nurse and works at least an extra half hour every shift. As she says she can't very well just up and leave a very sick patient just because your shift is over. Whereas she used to absolutely love the job now she almost hates it. Her ward is down half their staff. She doesn't get breaks any more even to the point that lunch is a sandwich on the way home. She is due enough holidays to take off the next six weeks but can't take them even though she is entitled because the staff shortages are so bad.

I would give her a touch about nurses getting paid so much but I've seen her payslip as low as €1600 without weekend or nights. It is possible to earn really good money but she would have to work only nights and weekend combinations. Apart from the cuts she is basically doing what two nurses used to do so essentially productivity is up.

However whatever about the pay the most concerning aspect is the stories I'm hearing about the risks to patients because for example there may only one nurse to dispense the drugs leading to human error and a patient getting the wrong drug,

Nurses are held in high regard because people who nee them realize the value in their work in excess off what they do get in their pay packet art the end of the day.

Paarthurnax

creedp wrote: »

Where has anybody said it is the hardest or worst job in the world? It also seems to me that it is people who are denouncing nurses that keep referring to the florence nightingale cliche. I think most would accept it is a responsible job requiring a high level of expertise and should attract a decent salary and working conditions. As for what is an appropriate rate .. I think it is telling that a private hospital recently ran a recruitment campaign offering 20% above the current HSE nursing rate (or 40% above the so called yellow pack rate). Now does this mean that this private hospital is offering the apropriate going rate for the job? Why would a private hospital offer a 20% premium on the HSE rate?

I agree with you completely, some people a very bitter towards nurses, maybe it stems from misogyny or some other unfulfilled need. Not all nurses are "Florence Nightingale" types or are "Gin Swilling Whores" who frequent coppers. Theses sort of stereotypes do nothing for a discussion on the Irish Economy.

Getting back on track to the topic in question which really amounts to whether or not nurses working in the public sector are worth the money for the work they do. Some people think they are overpaid, compared to what as I've previously stated! Nurses are professional so why shouldn't they be treated like other professionals.

nice_guy80

Lets all agree that Doctors are way overpaid in the health system, and can double job earning money off private patients

Nurses do most of the work in hospitals.

tinner777

murphaph wrote: »

It's called realism. Nursing is far from the worst or hardest job in the world. It's just a job and no sentiment should be attached to it.

Ok i'll bite...

The op opened with what he thought my hours should be, why??? What effect do you think my contracted hours going up to 39 hours will have? How will it effect you? How about if you agree to work for a few more hours a week for nothing I will?? Also I suppose, given you lot are so well informed, you know that the great Liam got this agreed but it had to be cost neutral. So no cover was provided, no jobs made from this, was left to local management to implement and guess what not every one got it. No one working in my service got it as unions and management couldn't agree a fair way of implementation. Guess what, this time is not back dated, so for the last 3 years we have been working extra for nothing.

It's just a job.. Every time I goto work I take responsibility for 23 patients and 4 staff nurses. I ensure that we all get through the day in a safe manner. I strive to get my patients the best possible care and needs met. I don't have to do this, I could just give out meds and ignore the patients for 12 hours and still get paid without any backlash. But, I don't as I'm a nurse and i give a ****. I have worked with people in distress for the last 15 years and have maintained the same attitude throughout from my first ward as a student to a cnm2 now. Now I don't claim to be the new messiah, I'm working in the caring profession because I care. Don't get me wrong I often look at some nurse and think why are you here.. But they don't last long especially in the front line. You realize new students now have to train for four years, and given there isn't a job for them at the end, they continue to apply.

Facing danger, everyday I goto work I'm in a chance of a slap or worse, be it a little old lady I'm trying to feed or some big geezer from the cells, every day. You forget its not only violence and aggression, someone jumps the wall and into the river, who's going to court? All medical emergencies are scary as hell, you never get used to it.

Too many nurses.. Really my place is constantly short staffed, refusal of management to employ students but continue to pay senior staff overtime. You seem to think nurses have no place at outpatient clinics??? Really, whilst they are checking your blood pressure etc To see if your ok, plus asking questions to check everything is ok, how many patients clam up in front of consultants? Consultant says this needs to be done etc.. Who does this?? Junior drs?? really?? Nurses in middle management?? Who are middle management?? The structure is as follows,
Director of nursing (1)
Acting director of nursing (4)
cnm3 (1)
cnm2 (8)

Really too many nurses?? It's a misconception, the cnm3 and all the cnm2's are included in the units staff numbers. Involved in patient care all day.

Cleaning the ward - so that's what 4 years in college talks the students these days, really?? So I could keep up my Florence act if I had a mop in my hand

Health care assistants - we don't have them at the moment but i'll welcome them when they come. You really think that any qualified nurse will let lead them is laughable

The other thread about sickness, any nurse goes out sick be it a day or a month are seen by their boss when they come back. I am totally entitled to know why they where sick so I can redirect them if appropriate. Guess what, you phone in sick with a tummy bug or sickness you'r now required to stay away from work for 48 hours from your last episode of sickness/diarrhea, so no more phone calls after a session as it means a sick note.

The next time you're in hospital I hope you're looked after by a proper nurse, not just someone doing a job.

Finally unless you're holding that cows hoof while you kill it, or explaining to the bull and others cows why Daisy passed, lay off with the slaughter house comparison.

FTA69

Spot on tinner.

Nurses have to deal with alcoholism, drug addiction, bereavement, violence, unpaid work, no breaks, dementia, mental illness etc. My own partner got knocked clean out while feeding a man with late-stage Alzheimers after he punched her in the jaw.

Like it or not nursing isn't "a job like any other."