Working hours for Nurses.

Xenophile

Nurses should be on a 39 hour week.

Liam Doran was far too smart to have their hours reduced some years ago. But I suppose he had to be seen to do something to justify his own high salary. The interesting thing is that no sooner had he achieved this, in the good times, that the Gardaí were straight in saying we don't want a pay increase just give us a shorter working week.

In hindsight Liam Doran was leading us down the Greek road and we know where they are today with an unemployment rate of about 65% for those aged under 25.

Put nurses back on a 39 hour week with this sweetener, job sharing 19 or 20 hours to go to a trainee nurse nominated by themselves, a son, daughter, niece, nephew or the sibling of a good friend. Only nurses who have a proven track record of good service should be eligible for this scheme, and their record of sick leave should be taken into consideration in this context.

Sick pay among nurses if far too high, let those who are able and want to work 39 hours do so. And let job sharing be available to others.

Gumbo

Xenophile wrote: »

Nurses should be on a 39 hour week.

Liam Doran was far too smart to have their hours reduced some years ago. But I suppose he had to be seen to do something to justify his own high salary. The interesting thing is that no sooner had he achieved this, in the good times, that the Gardaí were straight in saying we don't want a pay increase just give us a shorter working week.

In hindsight Liam Doran was leading us down the Greek road and we know where they are today with an unemployment rate of about 65% for those aged under 25.

Put nurses back on a 39 hour week with this sweetener, job sharing 19 or 20 hours to go to a trainee nurse nominated by themselves, a son, daughter, niece, nephew or the sibling of a good friend. Only nurses who have a proven track record of good service should be eligible for this scheme, and their record of sick leave should be taken into consideration in this context.

Sick pay among nurses if far too high, let those who are able and want to work 39 hours do so. And let job sharing be available to others.

God, this nurse bashing is really getting tired.

Xenophile

kceire wrote: »

God, this nurse bashing is really getting tired.

Some nurses are already tired, job sharing would help them, focus on the positive in this suggestion.

Gumbo

Xenophile wrote: »

Some nurses are already tired, job sharing would help them, focus on the positive.

Why would they agree to a 50% pay cut?

OMD

kceire wrote: »

Why would they agree to a 50% pay cut?

Doing half the work means they get paid half but their take home pay would only reduce by about 30% or so. For many people working part time is a very sensible option especially those with children.

Gumbo

OMD wrote: »

Doing half the work means they get paid half but their take home pay would only reduce by about 30% or so. For many people working part time is a very sensible option especially those with children.

So essentially your asking a newly trained nurse to work part time for approx 12k. They be better off on the dole and much better off getting a job where they are respected like america, Australia, Canada or even the UK.

Xenophile

kceire wrote: »

Why would they agree to a 50% pay cut?

Maybe some reaching retirement age would like to see their children get a start in life. And this is not about a pay cut but in many cases a 50% increase in their free time.

Xenophile

kceire wrote: »

So essentially your asking a newly trained nurse to work part time for approx 12k. They be better off on the dole and much better off getting a job where they are respected like america, Australia, Canada or even the UK.

For many the experience of living in a different country and culture is a very positive thing. For those who would like it, I say go for it as it can be very enriching in your life experience.

OMD

kceire wrote: »

So essentially your asking a newly trained nurse to work part time for approx 12k. They be better off on the dole and much better off getting a job where they are respected like america, Australia, Canada or even the UK.

To be honest I think we have far too many nurses in this country and need a massive reduction. The only option I see for nurses who want to remain nurses is to emigrate.

Gumbo

Xenophile wrote: »

Maybe some reaching retirement age would like to see their children get a start in life. And this is not about a pay cut but in many cases a 50% increase in their free time.

Yeah I can see the logic, but done HSE employees already have an option to work part time if there is another person to share the other half of the work load?

OMD wrote: »

To be honest I think we have far too many nurses in this country and need a massive reduction. The only option I see for nurses who want to remain nurses is to emigrate.

I don't know about that. I had a stay in St. James in mid 2012 and there was one nurse on my ward and she had to serve a good few others too. I'm not sure of exact work load but she certainly seemed snowed under and could of done with an extra pair of hands. For example, the contracted cleaning crew in the morning got 2 staff per ward to change the beds.

Xenophile

OMD wrote: »

To be honest I think we have far too many nurses in this country and need a massive reduction. The only option I see for nurses who want to remain nurses is to emigrate.

Not the only option but a good option for many young nurses.

Miss Lockhart

So what you're saying is that wealthy families could give their relatives or friends a chance of low paid work experience, with an older established nurse in the family job sharing with a younger member, who said family can no doubt afford to support. Meanwhile unconnected young nurses or those from less well off families are disadvantaged.

Just when you think this forum can't get any more ridiculous and certain posters can't get any more out of touch with reality.

OMD

kceire wrote: »

Yeah I can see the logic, but done HSE employees already have an option to work part time if there is another person to share the other half of the work load?



I don't know about that. I had a stay in St. James in mid 2012 and there was one nurse on my ward and she had to serve a good few others too. I'm not sure of exact work load but she certainly seemed snowed under and could of done with an extra pair of hands. For example, the contracted cleaning crew in the morning got 2 staff per ward to change the beds.

Overall nursing numbers are too high. The organisation of where nurses are though is wrong. Many wards are short staffed yet still in 2013 we have nurses in out patients. I don't mean clinical nurse specialists but ordinary nurses taking pulse, BP and other such nonsense. All nurses should be moved from out patients. In addition we have too many middle management nurses. Basically if the nurse is not seeing patients we should look at getting rid if his/her post.

murphaph

kceire wrote: »

I don't know about that. I had a stay in St. James in mid 2012 and there was one nurse on my ward and she had to serve a good few others too. I'm not sure of exact work load but she certainly seemed snowed under and could of done with an extra pair of hands. For example, the contracted cleaning crew in the morning got 2 staff per ward to change the beds.

Maybe her extra pair of hands was off sick after a night on the lash?

I'm guessing the contracted cleaning crew (something nurses used to do in Ireland) are on a much lower salary than the nurse.

I'm sick of the almost beatification of nurses that goes on here by some. I worked in the pub trade during my college years. I worked in Phibsborough and around that area. I can tell you right now that nurses were regularly getting absolutely sh!tfaced in McGowans etc. and heading into Coppers afterwards (or upstairs in McGowans) and (trying) to look after patients the next day in the Mater.

Gumbo

murphaph wrote: »

Maybe her extra pair of hands was off sick after a night on the lash?

I'm guessing the contracted cleaning crew (something nurses used to do in Ireland) are on a much lower salary than the nurse.

I'm sick of the almost beatification of nurses that goes on here by some. I worked in the pub trade during my college years. I worked in Phibsborough and around that area. I can tell you right now that nurses were regularly getting absolutely sh!tfaced in McGowans etc. and heading into Coppers afterwards (or upstairs in McGowans) and (trying) to look after patients the next day in the Mater.

I've done the same meself. I've been out on the lash and then certified foundations the following day as being safe to build on. Private sector job, I kid you not, private sector people drink too

So lets not make out that public servants are the only people out for a drink FFS.

creedp

murphaph wrote: »

I'm sick of the almost beatification of nurses that goes on here by some. I worked in the pub trade during my college years. I worked in Phibsborough and around that area. I can tell you right now that nurses were regularly getting absolutely sh!tfaced in McGowans etc. and heading into Coppers afterwards (or upstairs in McGowans) and (trying) to look after patients the next day in the Mater.

Presumably it was only nurses who were out on the lash on the northside? Also the thing to remember about nurses is that they work on a 24/7 roster -how many of the sh1tfaced nurses were starting at 8 or 9 am the following morning?

coffee_cake

A reminder that this is politics, not ranting and raving

thanks

murphaph

kceire wrote: »

I've done the same meself. I've been out on the lash and then certified foundations the following day as being safe to build on. Private sector job, I kid you not, private sector people drink too

So lets not make out that public servants are the only people out for a drink FFS.

I wasn't. You missed my point. I was pointing out that nurses are just workers like the rest of us, not all Florence Nightingale type characters that only think about their patients.

They should not be held up on a pedestal. They don't even do the sh!t work that nurses did 30 years ago as a matter of routine. Nursing is now a profession, which is what the INO wanted it to become, so they should quit using the Florence Nightingale image to garner public support and the public should wise up and realise that nursing is just another job.

Xenophile

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

So what you're saying is that wealthy families could give their relatives or friends a chance of low paid work experience, with an older established nurse in the family job sharing with a younger member, who said family can no doubt afford to support. Meanwhile unconnected young nurses or those from less well off families are disadvantaged.

Just when you think this forum can't get any more ridiculous and certain posters can't get any more out of touch with reality.

Sometimes life is more about compromise rather than conflict. Disadvantage, maybe, but remember cream always rises to the top. As the saying goes "You can't keep a good person down"

Miss Lockhart

Xenophile wrote: »

Sometimes life is more about compromise rather than conflict.

Is there a point to this psuedo philosophical nonsense?

Xenophile wrote:

Disadvantage, maybe, but remember cream always rises to the top. As the saying goes "You can't keep a good person down"

Well it seems like you want to try pretty damn hard.

Xenophile

Why personalise it ?

grid_locked

murphaph wrote: »

I wasn't. You missed my point. I was pointing out that nurses are just workers like the rest of us, not all Florence Nightingale type characters that only think about their patients.

They should not be held up on a pedestal. They don't even do the sh!t work that nurses did 30 years ago as a matter of routine. Nursing is now a profession, which is what the INO wanted it to become, so they should quit using the Florence Nightingale image to garner public support and the public should wise up and realise that nursing is just another job.

nurses reserve a special place in a lot of irish peoples hearts, this is due to the fact that traditionally a very high percentage of irish women worked as nurses , both here and abroad , we tend to be very sentimental about them as to diss a nurse is often to badmouth ones own mother

my mother is a retired nurse but like guard , i agree that 80% sign up for a steady paycheck and generous pension

Paulzx

Xenophile wrote: »

nominated by themselves, a son, daughter, niece, nephew or the sibling of a good friend. .

I thought only politicians could get away with that type of scam.

Paulzx

grid_locked wrote: »

, i agree that 80% sign up for a steady paycheck and generous pension

Work??.....for a steady paycheck.....sort of like having a job to support yourself.......No Sh*T sherlock

grid_locked

Paulzx wrote: »

Work??.....for a steady paycheck.....sort of like having a job to support yourself.......No Sh*T sherlock

thats right , very few are idealogicaly driven or see it as a vocation

thats why the banal eulogising is so tedious , same with guards

Xenophile

Paulzx wrote: »

I thought only politicians could get away with that type of scam.

As so many people perceive themselves to be unfairly treated this is what you might call " a carrot and stick approach"

femur61

kceire wrote: »

God, this nurse bashing is really getting tired.

There is a point though why are the rest of us working 39 hours but again in compared to other areas of the public sector they they aren't getting such a good deal. e.g secondary school teacher (a friend) is on €61,500 for 8 months work, she was on €63,000. In reality that would be over €100,000 for 12 months so I think teachers are better off than nurses as far as public sector jobs go. Personally, for all the money in the world I wouldn't do nursing - hard job.

Farmer Pudsey

Xenophile wrote: »

Nurses should be on a 39 hour week.

Liam Doran was far too smart to have their hours reduced some years ago. But I suppose he had to be seen to do something to justify his own high salary. The interesting thing is that no sooner had he achieved this, in the good times, that the Gardaí were straight in saying we don't want a pay increase just give us a shorter working week.

In hindsight Liam Doran was leading us down the Greek road and we know where they are today with an unemployment rate of about 65% for those aged under 25.

Put nurses back on a 39 hour week with this sweetener, job sharing 19 or 20 hours to go to a trainee nurse nominated by themselves, a son, daughter, niece, nephew or the sibling of a good friend. Only nurses who have a proven track record of good service should be eligible for this scheme, and their record of sick leave should be taken into consideration in this context.

Sick pay among nurses if far too high, let those who are able and want to work 39 hours do so. And let job sharing be available to others.

The reason nurses working week was shortened was that most Admin staff were on less than a 35 hour week. and a lot of other health professionals (physio's, counsellors etc) were on more money and less hours. In reality because they are mainly a female occupation they have tended to be 5h1t on over the years by managment. Even the change from on site training to university training was more a university/ managment idea rather than nursing lead.

Historically they had split shift working after it was abandoned elsewhere in other industries. This idea that you could pull someone else into a job is somthing that we have being trying to get away from.

If we have too many nurses then it a case of other people with in the system are not doing there job. OMD it is a nurses job to take your pulse and blood pressure I for one would not be happy with untrained staff doing that. Murphaph it is not only young nurses that drink too much ion genneral most young students/workers go on the lash too much.

I came accross a few articles recently about MRSA etc and part of the problem seemed to be the removal of responbility of hospital hygene from Nurses to cleaning/care staff.

The HSE has a huge issue with Administration there are too many generating work for themselves. Again this is not a nursing issue but it deplets resourses and again shows the failure of middle managment accross the PS

monkeypants

Xenophile wrote: »

Sick pay among nurses if far too high

Could that have anything to do with spending their working time with sick people? Should sick nurses come in to work regardless and risk infecting other staff and patients?

Xenophile

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

The reason nurses working week was shortened was that most Admin staff were on less than a 35 hour week. and a lot of other health professionals (physio's, counsellors etc) were on more money and less hours. In reality because they are mainly a female occupation they have tended to be 5h1t on over the years by managment. Even the change from on site training to university training was more a university/ managment idea rather than nursing lead.

Historically they had split shift working after it was abandoned elsewhere in other industries. This idea that you could pull someone else into a job is somthing that we have being trying to get away from.

If we have too many nurses then it a case of other people with in the system are not doing there job. OMD it is a nurses job to take your pulse and blood pressure I for one would not be happy with untrained staff doing that. Murphaph it is not only young nurses that drink too much ion genneral most young students/workers go on the lash too much.

I came accross a few articles recently about MRSA etc and part of the problem seemed to be the removal of responbility of hospital hygene from Nurses to cleaning/care staff.

The HSE has a huge issue with Administration there are too many generating work for themselves. Again this is not a nursing issue but it deplets resourses and again shows the failure of middle managment accross the PS

Thank you for bringing the hours of admin and other health care workers into the picture. At the time we had a very weak Government who always took the easy option.

As far as I am concerned my priorities are

1 The patient.
2 The nurses

This government would be very silly to let the chance go of implementing intelligent and necessary reforms. We are a broke little country but we can put it right.

Paarthurnax

Most nurses work 39 hours plus at the moment anyway, due to the nature of the working in a 24/7 field its not possible to just down tools or shut up shop at the end of shift. Nurses either come in earlier, or go home later than rostered for handover. Nurses very often have to for go breaks due to unforeseen circumstances that occur, eg; emergencies, admissions, assaults, staff shortages, liaising with family members etc etc....

If any of the "bashers" posting on this thread would like to step up and do the job - feel free to change career and go back and do nursing.