The returned home world war 1

Joyce86

We are a voluntary group who are researching those Irish Men and Women who returned home from world war 1 to the island of Ireland. This is not for profit research, not going to be sold and our aim is to try and get the names into a more permanent form. So far we have 20,000 names on www.thereturnedww1.com We are doing this because we think those who returned deserve to be remembered. They all had their own reasons for enlisting. If you know any names, please consider sending the name to us.

We have started a petition "Dublin City Council: To name the new luas bridge "The returned home WW1"" and need your help to get it off the ground. We would be most appreciative if you would consider supporting our application. Here is the link:-
http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/dublin-city-council-to-name-the-new-luas-bridge-the-returned-home-ww1
You can sign our petition by clicking here.
If you know of anyone else who might support our petition, please feel free to pass this on.

Many thanks,

ejmaztec

The name doesn't roll off the tongue much, no doubt it will have a good nickname even if its official name becomes "The returned home WW1".:D

Joyce86

True, but it would be great to remember their contribution for whatever reason they enlisted in world war 1. They did come home and many of them were treated in an abominable fashion, some were spat on in the street and so on. They are not remembered in any memorial as far as we can make out, hence our lists.

johnny_doyle

on the main menu on the website it should say Remembrance not Rememberance. :mad:

It would be hard to think of a worse name for a bridge.

Joyce86

Thanks for spotting the incorrect spell!

You do realise this is to remember those men and women who enlisted for whatever reason in World War 1 and who returned. Some of them were vilified when they came home. They deserve respect not ridicule.

johnny_doyle

no problem with the aim or objective of the project (I spend a lot of my time researching WW1 soldiers on the WW1 forum on Boards.ie and on the Great War Forum) but think it's a dreadful name for a bridge.

For some information about 2 Irish soldiers who survived WW1 and returned :

http://johnny-doyle.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/ex-soldier-malachy-halfpenny.html

http://johnny-doyle.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/ex-soldier-joseph-walsh.html

Mine didn't come home from WW1 unfortunately.

mickmackey1

Joyce86 wrote: »

They deserve respect not ridicule.

Take it easy, it's the name of the bridge that's being ridiculed not the volunteers.

Dr.Nightdub

Not being churlish, but aren't all the Irish who volunteered for WW1 - both those who returned and those who didn't - already commemorated by the Memorial Gardens in Islandbridge? Apart from that, I thought the City Council had asked for nominees who had a specific connection with Dublin, not Ireland in general.

ejmaztec

johnny_doyle wrote: »

no problem with the aim or objective of the project (I spend a lot of my time researching WW1 soldiers on the WW1 forum on Boards.ie and on the Great War Forum) but think it's a dreadful name for a bridge.

For some information about 2 Irish soldiers who survived WW1 and returned :

http://johnny-doyle.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/ex-soldier-malachy-halfpenny.html

http://johnny-doyle.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/ex-soldier-joseph-walsh.html

Mine didn't come home from WW1 unfortunately.

Those unfortunate not to return don't seem to get a mention in the naming of the bridge. If all of those Irishmen involved were commemorated, at least the name could be simplified.:(

I don't think that a vast number of names on a petition is going to get the powers that be to give it the name that's been put forward.

pinkypinky

We had a thread about this group almost a year ago (where did that time go?!) when it was first reported in the genealogy forum. Ceannrua kindly emailed them some questions on our behalf but I don't think there was ever a response.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=77668122

Personally, I think that would be a terrible name for a bridge.

R.Dub.Fusilier

Joyce86 wrote: »

You do realise this is to remember those men and women who enlisted for whatever reason in World War 1 and who returned. Some of them were vilified when they came home. They deserve respect not ridicule.

To be honest its a sh*te name for a bridge no matter who its named after. Who of your group came up with the namedid you contact any of the regimental associations etc. and get their input? I think not.

They old soldiers do deserve respect and people here on boards like Johnny Doyle and enfield and many others have been helping posters with finding information about their relatives ,for a few years now ,who fought in WW1 and died in WW1 and beyond. So you first couple of posts are not realy going to help you out.

R.Dub.Fusilier

Dr.Nightdub wrote: »

Not being churlish, but aren't all the Irish who volunteered for WW1 - both those who returned and those who didn't - already commemorated by the Memorial Gardens in Islandbridge? Apart from that, I thought the City Council had asked for nominees who had a specific connection with Dublin, not Ireland in general.

IMO there is more than a good chance that it will be named in relation to Easter 1916.

gobnaitolunacy

R.Dub.Fusilier wrote: »

IMO there is more than a good chance that it will be named in relation to Easter 1916.

Do we really need yet another thing named after something/someone that's 1916-related?

pedroeibar1

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Do we really need yet another thing named after something/someone that's 1916-related?

No we don't; however, there will be much publicity about this as it is another means of distracting the populace from the current woes - a form of 21st century bread and games.

ejmaztec

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Do we really need yet another thing named after something/someone that's 1916-related?

It makes a change from dead GAA sports people, I suppose.

pinkypinky

I'd really like to see it named after a woman, even if it has to Countess Markievicz to chime in with the centenary decade. Nothing against her, of course, I'd prefer someone more recent perhaps. However, as long as it's not religious or another dead male writer, I'm good.

CeannRua

pinkypinky wrote: »

We had a thread about this group almost a year ago (where did that time go?!) when it was first reported in the genealogy forum. Ceannrua kindly emailed them some questions on our behalf but I don't think there was ever a response.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=77668122

Personally, I think that would be a terrible name for a bridge.

Just to say no, I didn't get any further response. There was just the initial statement that they would open a Boards account and reply direct to queries here.

Peregrinus

The main point of giving a name to a bridge (or anything else) is to enable people to refer conveniently to the bridge, and the suggested name here doesn't come close to being useful for this purpose. The name is awkward and inconvenient and, even if you can persuade the Corporation to assign it officially, nobody will use it. There's plenty of precedent for bridges being known by names other than the official name; the bridge universally known as Capel St Bridge is not in fact called Capel St Bridge, and I doubt if one Dubliner in a hundred used the name Mellows Bridge, or could locate Mellows Bridge if asked.

Commemorating the returned of the Great War by assigning a name which will be almost immediately forgotten is probably not a good plan.

Fratton Fred

It will just end up being called traitors bridge.

enfield

This is an excellent endeavour. Well done!! I wish you the every success with it.
Kind regards.
Tom Burnell

Elmer Blooker

Joyce86 wrote: »

True, but it would be great to remember their contribution for whatever reason they enlisted in world war 1. They did come home and many of them were treated in an abominable fashion, some were spat on in the street and so on. They are not remembered in any memorial as far as we can make out, hence our lists.

could some the abuse have been justified at that time when feelings were running high after the 1916 Rising? (I certainly don't think it was justified)
I only discovered very recently that the Dublin Fusiliers took part in The Rising.
I was always led to believe that troops were brought from the UK to Dun Laoghaire and marched to Dublin,( from what I can remember from books I've read these were the Sherwood Foresters - The Battle of Mount Street Bridge)
The involvement of "our own" is putting down the Rising is something that we'd rather not hear about and has been swept under the carpet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Dublin_Fusiliers#1916_Easter_Rising

Reekwind

Joyce86 wrote: »

You do realise this is to remember those men and women who enlisted for whatever reason in World War 1 and who returned. Some of them were vilified when they came home. They deserve respect not ridicule.

I hate to be the one to ask this but here goes: why?

Obviously vilifying people is never very nice but why should a bridge in Dublin be named after people who fought in the British Army? As far as I'm concerned these men did not die for Ireland and they did not die for a particularly noble cause. There may have been a certain dignity in the conditions that they endured but I don't believe that going to war is an inherently heroic act that demands a major landmark. I can sympathise with their plight but personally I do not feel in the slightest way indebted to those soldiers

If the families and relations of those who fought in WWI want to commemorate their dead then they can do so in private or at Memorial Gardens. If you want otherwise then you'll have to explain why exactly the returning soldiers deserve "public recognition". And I ask this as someone whose grandfather spent most of his life in the British Army

I don't want to come across as hostile but I reject the assumption that those who returned from Flanders deserve automatic plaudits. There's a difference between that and correcting the opprobrium that was lumped upon them by contrmpoaries

R.Dub.Fusilier

Reekwind wrote: »

I don't want to come across as hostile but I reject the assumption that those who returned from Flanders deserve automatic plaudits. There's a difference between that and correcting the opprobrium that was lumped upon them by contrmpoaries

I think Joyce86 is flogging a dead horse myself.

I can't see how naming a bridge nearly 100 years after these lads came home is automatic plaudits.

Irish people seem to forget that a great many Irish Volunteers fought in WW1 and may of those who fought in the War of Independence fought in WW1 including Tom Barry and Emmett Dalton to name just two off the top of my head.

Neutronale

johnny_doyle wrote: »

no problem with the aim or objective of the project (I spend a lot of my time researching WW1 soldiers on the WW1 forum on Boards.ie and on the Great War Forum) but think it's a dreadful name for a bridge.

For some information about 2 Irish soldiers who survived WW1 and returned :

http://johnny-doyle.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/ex-soldier-malachy-halfpenny.html

http://johnny-doyle.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/ex-soldier-joseph-walsh.html

Mine didn't come home from WW1 unfortunately.

You could call it the Halpenny bridge...

Malachy Halpenny served with the Royal Field Artillery during the Great War,
number 120000.

After his return to Belfast, he was to fall victim of the
B Special/RIC Cromwell Gang reputed to be under the command of District
Inspector Nixon. In June 1921, he was dragged from his bed and beaten.
Halfpenny's feet were pierced by a bayonet to prevent any chance of escape. He
was shot several times and his bullet riddled body was found in a field having
been thrown on a barbed wired fence. 17 bullet wounds were counted.

Peregrinus

There is something odd about the idea of honouring people whose achievement is, basically, that they did not die in the Great War, but survived it to return home afterwards. While not dying is certainly an achievement, it’s an achievement which could have been achieved much more directly by not enlisting in the first place.

Should we, then, name a bridge or other facility in honour of those who did not enlist? Perhaps in honour of those who fought the anti-conscription campaign? I can’t see anyone taking this seriously.

Surely, if we named the bridge as suggested, what we’d actually be honouring is not so much the fact that they survived, as the fact that they enlisted and fought. And I think we can legitimately ask why we would want to do that.

It’s fair to say that they were a big cohort of people who are now largely forgotten. They’re forgotten, I think, because the cause with which there were identified - the Allied cause in the Great War - proved eventually to be not so very relevant to the Irish story. The much smaller number who fought in 1916, and in 1919-22, had a far greater influence on this nation’s story, and they’re the ones we remember.

It wasn’t always so. It’s true that returned servicemen were sometimes vilified in the street. But they were also the beneficiaries of housing schemes, of war hospitals, of pension systems. Armistice Day was a big event in Dublin throughout the 20s and 30s, because so many people had served, or knew someone who had served, or died. It was Eamon de Valera, remember, who performed the formal opening of the Memorial Gardens at Islandbridge, which only later fell into total ruin. The almost complete eclipse of this aspect of Irish history came later, as those involved died off, and their service was seen to have provided no enduring legacy to the nation.

I think it’s right that this story should be remembered. Even if it turned out to be a historical dead end, dead ends matter, if only for what we can learn from them. Whether we need to express that remembrance in terms of “honouring” the people involved is, I think, another question.

GRMA

Hopefully they'll name it after one of the women of 1916.


Why should we be commemorating British soldiers? We should be commemorating and remembering those who fought and died for Irish freedom, not for a colonial power.

Thats not to say they shouldnt be commemorated at all, they already are and there is no need to name a bridge in the capital of Ireland to honour people who fought in a foreign and oppressive army... and I say that as someone whose ancestors fought in WW1. Even besides that the proposed name is terrible.

I'm reminded of a version of 'The Foggy Dew';

Right proudly high over Dublin Town
They hung out the flag of war
'Twas better to die 'neath an Irish sky
Than at Sulva or Sud El Bar

And from the plains of Royal Meath
Strong men came hurrying through
While Britannia's Huns, with their long range guns
Sailed in through the foggy dew

'Twas Britannia bade our Wild Geese go
That small nations might be free
But their lonely graves are by Sulva's waves
Or the shore of the Great North Sea

Oh, had they died by Pearse's side
Or fought with Cathal Brugha
Their names we will keep where the fenians sleep
'Neath the shroud of the foggy dew

But the bravest fell, and the requiem bell
Rang mournfully and clear
For those who died that Easter tide
In the springing of the year


Read more: DUBLINERS - THE FOGGY DEW LYRICS

kabakuyu

Name it after Martin Doyle VC, MM. After WW1 he was a member of the West Clare brigade of the IRA during the war of Independence.That should keep everybody happy.

R.Dub.Fusilier

kabakuyu wrote: »

Name it after Martin Doyle VC, MM. After WW1 he was a member of the West Clare brigade of the IRA during the war of Independence.That should keep everybody happy.

Good suggestion. Or even after Fr. Willie Doyle killed in action. or Fr Browne WW1 Chaplin and beloved priest from Gardiner Street and Titanic fame.

Joyce86

The memorial gardens in islandbridge commemorate those (about 49,000) who died during world war 1.

As far as we understand it , there is no memorial to honour those who did returned home (men and women) from world war 1. We are applying to have the new luas bridge named "The returned home" to specifically honour those who did return home from WW1. We have amended the name slightly.

There were dubliners who enlisted and who returned home. Many joined the royal dublin fusilers and the south irish horse amongst other regiments.

It is true, maybe our petition will not make a difference in suceeding to have the bridge named "The returned home" but at least it is highlighting a need to remember in someway those that did.

www.thereturnedww1.com has our contact details if anyone has name/s of relatives they would like us to add. Again, we are completely voluntary project.

Joyce86

Do you represent the Royal Dublin Fusiliers.

R.Dub.Fusilier wrote: »

To be honest its a sh*te name for a bridge no matter who its named after. Who of your group came up with the namedid you contact any of the regimental associations etc. and get their input? I think not.

They old soldiers do deserve respect and people here on boards like Johnny Doyle and enfield and many others have been helping posters with finding information about their relatives ,for a few years now ,who fought in WW1 and died in WW1 and beyond. So you first couple of posts are not realy going to help you out.

Neutronale

Joyce86 wrote: »

The memorial gardens in islandbridge commemorate those (about 49,000) who died during world war 1.

As far as we understand it , there is no memorial to honour those who did returned home (men and women) from world war 1. We are applying to have the new luas bridge named "The returned home" to specifically honour those who did return home from WW1. We have amended the name slightly.

There were dubliners who enlisted and who returned home. Many joined the royal dublin fusilers and the south irish horse amongst other regiments.

It is true, maybe our petition will not make a difference in suceeding to have the bridge named "The returned home" but at least it is highlighting a need to remember in someway those that did.

www.thereturnedww1.com has our contact details if anyone has name/s of relatives they would like us to add. Again, we are completely voluntary project.

Why do you feel the need to honour them, they fought for the English Queen, let them name a bridge in England for them.

R.Dub.Fusilier

Joyce86 wrote: »

Do you represent the Royal Dublin Fusiliers.

No. They were disbanded 90 years ago.

If you mean the Royal Dublin Fusiliers Association the answer is No.

You are not realy fighting your corner here on Boards.ie. And you dont seem to have answered the questions that were put to you about what is going to happen to all the free information and research that members of the public are doing for your group.

Rebelheart

Joyce86 wrote: »

We are a voluntary group who are researching those Irish Men and Women who returned home from world war 1 to the island of Ireland. This is not for profit research, not going to be sold and our aim is to try and get the names into a more permanent form. So far we have 20,000 names on www.thereturnedww1.com We are doing this because we think those who returned deserve to be remembered. They all had their own reasons for enlisting. If you know any names, please consider sending the name to us.

We have started a petition "Dublin City Council: To name the new luas bridge "The returned home WW1"" and need your help to get it off the ground. We would be most appreciative if you would consider supporting our application. Here is the link:-
http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/dublin-city-council-to-name-the-new-luas-bridge-the-returned-home-ww1
You can sign our petition by clicking here.
If you know of anyone else who might support our petition, please feel free to pass this on.

Many thanks,

Eh, no thanks. I'd rather not commemorate people for being paid mercenaries of the British Empire in its imperial war against imperial Germany in order to maintain a balance of power in Europe which had favoured British imperialism since 1815 during a period when the same empire inflicted its profound cultural colonialism, racism and imperialist supremacy upon the Irish as a sovereign people.

There is absolutely nothing noble about fighting for that British imperialist ideology. This delusional cant about them not fighting for the British Empire but rather for noble things like Irish independence when they were wearing the British Empire's uniform and fighting under orders from it is offensive. Offensive, yet ubiquitous. If there was anybody naive enough to fight for British imperialism in World War they made up in part for their sins by fighting for Irish freedom afterwards and it is for that latter role as defenders of freedom that people like Tom Barry could be honoured by the sovereign Irish state.

British imperialism got away with inflicting its supremacist, exploiting evil across the world because it had (paid) mercenaries like the people you now wish to commemorate. After WW II, such footsoldiers on the German side were told they were culpable in the crimes of the Nazi régime. Yet the massive double standard from the British and supporters of their footsoldiers on the issue of moral responsibility for the crimes of the British Empire is disgusting. The hypocrisy of all of these pro-British campaigners on the abject immorality of imperialist warfare never ceases to amaze. To them, violence from British imperial forces represents a "greater good" (for their tribe, of course). These "campaigners" have no moral compass, no moral consistency - at all. It's a tribal campaign to honour mercenaries for the British tribe. It's not about right or wrong, because if it were the victims of British imperialism would be honoured by these people. Instead, they seek to honour the perpetrators of British imperialism. Because, you see, they were family members and that means all judgements on the morality of their actions are suspended. That's about as tribal, rightwing and heartless as any group of human beings can get. If I had a mé féiner self-serving murderer in my family history, I certainly wouldn't be seeking to honour them. Lunacy. Yet these buckos get a campaign to honour them because they wore the uniform of the British Empire.

These people were willing pawns of British imperialism in WW I whose descendants (most of whom never actually knew them, to make these campaigns more comical) are seeking to rehabilitate their reputation. They should be assessed honestly and not in this historical distortion of assumed innocence. For instance, the dominant role of money in their decisions to fight for British imperialism in WW I is rarely if ever mentioned - there were "various reasons" for joining. Mar dhea. We can't have these putative "heroes" being assessed as money-hungry little sleveen mé féiners who'd sell their own grannies to advance themselves, who'd fight for the advance of the very same British Empire that was occupying Ireland. At least the Black slaves on the Confederate side in the US Civil War had little choice in the matter. But the Irish-born who took the King's shilling to fight for imperialist interests in a war in which they did not expect to be killed? You're going to get very little volunteerism for bravery there. They took a gamble, many of them lost. Tough. You'll get "after-the-fact" bravery in the trenches, of course. Accidental "heroes"; they hadn't a notion when they signed up that war would be of the new sort, and in the trenches they took their chances in the awareness that they'd certainly be shot if they deserted. That reality of these people is certainly not the sort of "bravery" one would be commemorated for.

In contrast, the 10,000 Irish Volunteers who stayed in Ireland and the members of the Irish Citizens Army who supported "neither King nor Kaiser but Ireland" are among the people we should be commemorating, if this society is going down that glorification of war road beloved of British jingoists/imperialists/nationalists. If apologists for footsoldiers of the British Empire want official recognition let them seek it from the British state, not from the independent sovereign state of the Irish people, the very state which their ancestors by their membership of the very force which was preventing Irish independence was fighting against.

When will people start discussing honestly the morality of Irish people being paid to fight for the British Empire and keep peoples across the world subservient to the needs of the British state and its elite? The last thing such people deserve is commemoration. They are, quite frankly, a source of shame to people who believe in justice and the rights of small countries to exist, just as the entire British Empire is a source of shame to open-minded and decent British people today.

R.Dub.Fusilier

Neutronale wrote: »

Why do you feel the need to honour them, they fought for the English Queen, let them name a bridge in England for them.

You at least know your history.

R.Dub.Fusilier

Rebelheart I cant say I agree with eveything you have said but I see with the direction you are coming from.

What do you think of those Irish Nationalists who fought in the War of Independence who served in the British army and took the Saxon shilling , people like James Connolly , Michael Mallin , Tom Barry , Martin Doyle , the Connaught Rangers Mutiny in India 1920 , Erskine Childers and Robert Monteith and the C company of the Dublin Fusiliers which was made up of Larkenites? Traitors all ?

kabakuyu

R.Dub.Fusilier wrote: »

Rebelheart I cant say I agree with eveything you have said but I see with the direction you are coming from.

What do you think of those Irish Nationalists who fought in the War of Independence who served in the British army and took the Saxon shilling , people like James Connolly , Michael Mallin , Tom Barry , Martin Doyle , the Connaught Rangers Mutiny in India 1920 , Erskine Childers and Robert Monteith and the C company of the Dublin Fusiliers which was made up of Larkenites? Traitors all ?

Very true RDF,Not to forget the numerous Belfast and Derry men of the National Volunteers who joined the 6th Connaught Rangers, and the men from all over the country who joined the 16th Irish Division, many men with British Army service provided valuable experience to the IRA during the WOI.Heres a few more who served in both the BA and IRA, hardly traitors
Lieut.Emmet Dalton MC ,Royal Dublin Fusiliers 1914-18, Old IRA 1919-1922 Dublin Brig.
L/Cpl,George Adamson DCM Leinster Regiment and MGC 1914-18,Old IRA1919-1922,Athlone Brig.
Pte.P.Horkan MM, Worcs Rgt.1914-18. Old IRA 1919-22, Mayo Brig.
Pte.J.O'Farrell MM,MiD, Irish Guards 1914-18, Old IRA 1919-22

GRMA

R.Dub.Fusilier wrote: »

Rebelheart I cant say I agree with eveything you have said but I see with the direction you are coming from.

What do you think of those Irish Nationalists who fought in the War of Independence who served in the British army and took the Saxon shilling , people like James Connolly , Michael Mallin , Tom Barry , Martin Doyle , the Connaught Rangers Mutiny in India 1920 , Erskine Childers and Robert Monteith and the C company of the Dublin Fusiliers which was made up of Larkenites? Traitors all ?

I think he covered that:

If there was anybody naive enough to fight for British imperialism in World War they made up in part for their sins by fighting for Irish freedom afterwards and it is for that latter role as defenders of freedom that people like Tom Barry could be honoured by the sovereign Irish state.

R.Dub.Fusilier

GRMA wrote: »

I think he covered that:

If there was anybody naive enough to fight for British imperialism in World War they made up in part for their sins by fighting for Irish freedom afterwards and it is for that latter role as defenders of freedom that people like Tom Barry could be honoured by the sovereign Irish state.

I didn't ask you but i'll take what you said , what about the Connaught Rangers mutiny in India 1920 , Irish nationalists taking the kings shilling? Still sung about by the Wolfe Tones and others.

I think the aims of this bridge naming group is a folly. It will not be settled here and it wont have the crap name they chose. I would rather it was named after the DMP man who had the memorial on Hawkins street.

CeannRua

R.Dub.Fusilier wrote: »

No. They were disbanded 90 years ago.

If you mean the Royal Dublin Fusiliers Association the answer is No.

You are not realy fighting your corner here on Boards.ie. And you dont seem to have answered the questions that were put to you about what is going to happen to all the free information and research that members of the public are doing for your group.

Have to agree with this. OP, your group might mean well but why not answer questions asked of you? Reading back through this, you only seem to address points you're comfortable with. Genuinely, I don't understand why you would begin a thread like this if you are not going to engage fully.

Also, could you please explain in plain English the meaning of these two sentences from your terms and conditions?

'No warranties are given by thereturnedww1.com as to merchantability, title or non-infringement of any rights. Your privacy is protected as far as feasible and no personal data shall be shared other than the details supplied for the project.' From http://www.thereturnedww1.com/#/terms-conditions/4559697674

Joyce86

This is a voluntary project and not for profit. All the information about us and our project is on our website. We are given names from members of the public to be added to the list and we get names from research. We would like the names to be in some sort of permanent published form similar to the Ypres memorial books which gives the names of those who were killed.

A minority of the posts seem very bitter and venting spleen. One post does not seem to know their history as it was King not Queen at the time of World War 1. Whatever their reasons for enlisting be it choice, be it necessity be it for democracy, they are a part of our history. They should not be forgotten.

R.Dub.Fusilier

Joyce86 wrote: »

This is a voluntary project and not for profit. All the information about us and our project is on our website. We are given names from members of the public to be added to the list and we get names from research. We would like the names to be in some sort of permanent published form similar to the Ypres memorial books which gives the names of those who were killed.

A minority of the posts seem very bitter and venting spleen. One post does not seem to know their history as it was King not Queen at the time of World War 1. Whatever their reasons for enlisting be it choice, be it necessity be it for democracy, they are a part of our history. They should not be forgotten.

At least those who are for and against the naming your group chose are up front about their reasoning for their views.

You have avoided the questions put to you and are not saying what your group are going to do with the names and information you want from them.

To be honest I don't mind who the bridge is named after once its not anyone from the modern political parties but I have never heard of the British French Americans etc.naming anything after people who returned after a war.

pedroeibar1

Joyce86 wrote: »

This is a voluntary project and not for profit. All the information about us and our project is on our website.

That is nonsense.

I bridge the divide in that I have ancestors who fought in the War of Independence and fought in WWI. Most of my WWI kinsmen did not come home, one (13th Bn., Canadian Infantry (Quebec Regt.) died on Saturday, 24th April 1915, age 32) dying under Canadian Colours because he did not want to fight for Britain but believed in the purpose of the War.

That said, if ever anybody set out to make an example of how something should not be done, you have set the template. Firstly, your website is rubbish (I will return to that later) and your communication / PR is even worse.

There are many here on Boards who have an open mind on our past and have been very helpful to those searching for War dead/ survivor records. A basic search by you of some the posters’ responses would indicate that you clearlywould have allies here; several posts on this thread have been equally positive, requesting information. To anyone involved in developing ANYTHING, that is a golden opportunity to talk to your audience. Instead, you chose to ignore a basic request, HERE expressed courteously. The absence of a reply did your organization no favours.

As for your website, it is antiquated, amateurish, contains spelling errors and says nothing of relevance about who is behind your organization. (You still hide, anonymously.) The ‘Terms and conditions’ page contains irrelevant gobbledegook and legal jargon that looks as if it has been ‘cut and pasted’ from another site by a young teenager trying to be clever – you control site content so what is the point in saying posted material ‘.....is not defamatory, malicious, vulgar, and obscene, racially or ethnically object able, discrimatory [sic] or otherwise objectionable’ ? Also, it is Republic of Ireland (not republic.) Even the lists of names are not properly sorted. Sorting through thirteen pages to check on just ONE surname is daft in this day of ‘merge’.
It is difficult enough to combat the anti-British bigots who vent spleen (your words) here and elsewhere; you, by proposing a daft name, by alienating support and by total carelessness on your marketing have done the ‘Returned Home’ no favours. They deserve better. For those reasons I will not be a contributor.

CeannRua

Joyce86 wrote: »

This is a voluntary project and not for profit. All the information about us and our project is on our website. We are given names from members of the public to be added to the list and we get names from research. We would like the names to be in some sort of permanent published form similar to the Ypres memorial books which gives the names of those who were killed.

A minority of the posts seem very bitter and venting spleen. One post does not seem to know their history as it was King not Queen at the time of World War 1. Whatever their reasons for enlisting be it choice, be it necessity be it for democracy, they are a part of our history. They should not be forgotten.

You are still not answering questions. This thread and last year's on the Genealogy forum have 2,000 hits and counting between them. I don't think you are doing your project any favours. I'm actually in favour of collecting information about ex-service people (not the bridge thing though. Sounds like bridge is to be called after your project than in remembrance of anyone). So many service records were destroyed that family info may be the only record of service. After this though, I'm out and won't be contributing info about family members. While you might mean well, your PR is atrocious and is pretty disrespectful of potential contributors.

I don't have time to read it, but does your website say you are also looking for permission to publish information in a book?

As for posts being 'very bitter' and 'venting spleen,' you might not agree with them, but people are entitled to their opinion.

stoneill

Reekwind wrote: »

I hate to be the one to ask this but here goes: why?

Obviously vilifying people is never very nice but why should a bridge in Dublin be named after people who fought in the British Army? As far as I'm concerned these men did not die for Ireland and they did not die for a particularly noble cause.

I agree with your sentiment somewhat about going to war - I cannot agree with war on any level.
It may be worth pointing out that in 1914 when WW1 stated that the British Army was the army in Ireland. Blokes joined armys for a variety of reasons, money was the biggest.
I could not vilify anyone who joined to get some money, in a pre welfare state, being hungry is a good way to sort out your political ideologies.

ejmaztec

There were less arguments and fireworks in the Bridge Over The River Kwai.:(

Snickers Man

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It will just end up being called traitors bridge.

Or given the Dublin penchant for rhyming couplets to denigrate their monuments, it could be called something much worse.

The "**** by the Bankers" bridge (given that it will be in the financial district)

or the Poltroon Pontoon

Come to think of it, you might prefer to call it after a "dead GAA player" after all.

ejmaztec

Snickers Man wrote: »

Or given the Dublin penchant for rhyming couplets to denigrate their monuments, it could be called something much worse.

The "**** by the Bankers" bridge (given that it will be in the financial district)

or the Poltroon Pontoon

Come to think of it, you might prefer to call it after a "dead GAA player" after all.

It could be named "The Get Over it Bridge".

pedroeibar1

ejmaztec wrote: »

It could be named "The Get Over it Bridge".

That's almost on a par with the OP's proposed name for it :P. The name 'The Fallen Bridge' would never sink in, but it could make a splash of publicity!;)

Snickers Man

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

The name 'The Fallen Bridge' would never sink in, but it could make a splash of publicity!;)

LOL.

Must look out my old recording of the Goon Show's "Sunken Westminster Pier" sketch.

"It looks like the government is going to step in!"
"Good riddance to them!"

Jellybaby1

I am sympathetic to having these men remembered but really, it's a bad name for a bridge, or anything in fact. I have three men in my family who fought/died/survived WWI and sorry, but I won't go along with naming anything such a thing as I doubt if my guys would have been in favour of it, and I respect them too much.

Neutronale

R.Dub.Fusilier wrote: »

You at least know your history.

Thats ryesh