GRASS GROWTH

whelan1

ok, have a good few issues.... walked farm this morning, had sheep in grazing land that could be grazed by cattle last year as land was too wet... they left 4 weeks ago.... i kept 20 acres that they didnt graze, cows will finish this today... we went with urea 2 weeks ago but ground was very wet... only got a fraction spread of what i wanted too.... so feck all grass on the rest of the grazing block, cows are out from 8am til 3 they get silage then, i have loads of silage. So here are my questions, silage ground is completely bare, normally we would put slurry on this in early april and put out 0's etc in early april too, after the cows have grazed it, then we cut in early june.. so i am thinking of putting out slurry on it next week and fertiliser the week after and cut silage earlier. Our ground is very heavy but is travellable at the minute. This in turn should mean an earlier second cut and then silage ground will be available to me again...what do ye think? what has people grass growth been like recently? sorry for the long post more questions later:cool:

rancher

whelan1 wrote: »

ok, have a good few issues.... walked farm this morning, had sheep in grazing land that could be grazed by cattle last year as land was too wet... they left 4 weeks ago.... i kept 20 acres that they didnt graze, cows will finish this today... we went with urea 2 weeks ago but ground was very wet... only got a fraction spread of what i wanted too.... so feck all grass on the rest of the grazing block, cows are out from 8am til 3 they get silage then, i have loads of silage. So here are my questions, silage ground is completely bare, normally we would put slurry on this in early april and put out 0's etc in early april too, after the cows have grazed it, then we cut in early june.. so i am thinking of putting out slurry on it next week and fertiliser the week after and cut silage earlier. Our ground is very heavy but is travellable at the minute. This in turn should mean an earlier second cut and then silage ground will be available to me again...what do ye think? what has people grass growth been like recently? sorry for the long post more questions later:cool:

Grass grows at 6 degrees, our soil temp hasn't crossed 4 yet, this day last year it was 6.5 degrees..... so wouldn't be hoping for an early growth here anyway

mf240

If you have loads of silage your sorted just give them a smaller area everyday and let them eat the silage at night.

Put out fert for grazing on silage ground and some of the area you left last week might be dry now, there giving a rise in temperature next week. If you need to graze the silage ground in a couple of weeks then do, if not you can top up fert and leave for silage.

td5man

mf240 wrote: »

If you have loads of silage your sorted just give them a smaller area everyday and let them eat the silage at night.

Put out fert for grazing on silage ground and some of the area you left last week might be dry now, there giving a rise in temperature next week. If you need to graze the silage ground in a couple of weeks then do, if not you can top up fert and leave for silage.

Theres a rise in temp this week but could be getting colder again the following week ,very little grass here the cows are still in and Will be for another while much as id like to have them out .

whelan1

glad i walked the farm now, got a bit of a shock with the lack of grass, found 2 water leaks too... was unreal too to see the way the river had widened during the winter its as if the opw had been around!

f140

if you will have a lot of silage left over why dont you just have one decent cut.

whelan1

f140 wrote: »

if you will have a lot of silage left over why dont you just have one decent cut.

still have youngstock and sucklers in, also dont know how long feeding will go on for if there is no growth, wouldnt be enough in 1 big cut...

bob charles

its only the first of March for FFS, not grass growing time yet. short days, long night and cold temps.

Viewtodiefor

bob charles wrote: »

its only the first of March for FFS, not grass growing time yet. short days, long night and cold temps.

Good man Bob !

whelan1

ah us dairy people want to get as much as we can from grass, 2 years ago i would be lucky to have my cows out for 17 march, just being greedy;)

1chippy

bob charles wrote: »

its only the first of March for FFS, not grass growing time yet. short days, long night and cold temps.

But teagasc told me to do it.:P

Muckit

Down in Limerick for the weekend and on road down spotted 3 dairy farmers with cows out in east Clare!

mf240

How soon after slurry would ye spread can? the land is very bare as was grazed in janurary.

severeoversteer

Muckit wrote: »

Down in Limerick for the weekend and on road down spotted 3 dairy farmers with cows out in east Clare!

on my commute in galway theres 5 dairy lads with cows out, 2 of them day and night, and they have great cover of grass too, and ive a few bullocks out myself on saturday just to boast !

mf240

I suppose if land is dry there better off out.
Could want the silage worse in july.:(

Mulumpy

mf240 wrote: »

How soon after slurry would ye spread can? the land is very bare as was grazed in janurary.

Better off wait for about ten days

delaval

whelan1 wrote: »

ok, have a good few issues.... walked farm this morning, had sheep in grazing land that could be grazed by cattle last year as land was too wet... they left 4 weeks ago.... i kept 20 acres that they didnt graze, cows will finish this today... we went with urea 2 weeks ago but ground was very wet... only got a fraction spread of what i wanted too.... so feck all grass on the rest of the grazing block, cows are out from 8am til 3 they get silage then, i have loads of silage. So here are my questions, silage ground is completely bare, normally we would put slurry on this in early april and put out 0's etc in early april too, after the cows have grazed it, then we cut in early june.. so i am thinking of putting out slurry on it next week and fertiliser the week after and cut silage earlier. Our ground is very heavy but is travellable at the minute. This in turn should mean an earlier second cut and then silage ground will be available to me again...what do ye think? what has people grass growth been like recently? sorry for the long post more questions later:cool:

Whelan, just to be clear have you 20 acres grazed by cows and the remaining sheep land grazed?
You say the silage ground is bare, what is the cover?
What is the cover on the paddocks that you grazed at the beginning of Oct?
Tomorrow cover remainder of the farm with urea/can. If you do not graze silage ground you will have 46 units out and you can top up. It's a pity to be feeding silage that has to be put back into the pit:mad:

severeoversteer

was standing in the field and two neighbours pulled up and said "ya know what your dead right" and went home and let stock out aswell,,,

theyll be cursin me the end of this week when the weather breaks lol

delaval

Is there rain on the way?

severeoversteer

Muckit wrote: »

Down in Limerick for the weekend and on road down spotted 3 dairy farmers with cows out in east Clare!

delaval wrote: »

Is there rain on the way?

met eirinn informs me that there is

http://www.met.ie/forecasts/5day-ireland.asp

i find that very reliable;)

getting milder though

99nsr125

Rightly or wrongly we used to about this time of year go with a bag of urea to the acre and then spread the slurry on top of it.

Now we haven't done the above in a while as we've been ploughing the slurry in, however this year it'll probably go virtually everywhere as the tanks are almost full and parts of the home farm are still soft, so we're spreading where we can not where we want ! !

whelan1

delaval wrote: »

Whelan, just to be clear have you 20 acres grazed by cows and the remaining sheep land grazed?
You say the silage ground is bare, what is the cover?
What is the cover on the paddocks that you grazed at the beginning of Oct?
Tomorrow cover remainder of the farm with urea/can. If you do not graze silage ground you will have 46 units out and you can top up. It's a pity to be feeding silage that has to be put back into the pit:mad:

cover on silage ground is 250, the land that was grazed in october is where the cows have grazed since they went out.

freedominacup

whelan1 wrote: »

cover on silage ground is 250, the land that was grazed in october is where the cows have grazed since they went out.

The sheep have set you back massively. Whatever chance you had was to have them gone by early Dec with some element of control before that over where they grazed and when. You are now looking at no covers and slow growth and to add insult to injury you will probably end up with a lot of grass coming together which you will find hard to utilise properly. Time for the grass measuring afficionadoes to man up and plot a way around the two problems.
i.e. not enough now and the strong likelihood of a large surplus in early-mid April.

tabby aspreme

delaval wrote: »

Is there rain on the way?

There is rain on the way but its coming with an east wind so I don't think it will get much milder, most of my ground lies east so very little growth here and fields a bad color

severeoversteer

tabby aspreme wrote: »

There is rain on the way but its coming with an east wind so I don't think it will get much milder, most of my ground lies east so very little growth here and fields a bad color

its forecast to get milder and return to cold front again nearly for rest of month

bob charles

freedominacup wrote: »

Time for the grass measuring afficionadoes to man up and plot a way around the two problems.
i.e. not enough now and the strong likelihood of a large surplus in early-mid April.

Not aimed at you freedom, but

Maybe its the blind leading the blind. Grass growth is much the same year in year out. Similar amount grows each year just the spread can be different. No one knows your own farm like yourself so draw on your own experiences to make decisions, it aint rocket science

Timmaay

Hmm Bob, yes obviously not every farm is the same, but in general the weather/growth rates will effect each farm similarly. In terms of the problems freedom, too little now and too much in April, removing excess grass in terms of silage is what the tried and tested solution would be, this of course means carrying more silage reserves through the winter, which you might not use. Having a system that is very adaptable is probably more desirable, ie a cow that will be ok with eating less grass when its not there, but be able to consume more (and obviously produce more milk) when it is, all this while not loosing flesh off her back, and still going back in calf in May.

freedominacup

Timmaay wrote: »

Hmm Bob, yes obviously not every farm is the same, but in general the weather/growth rates will effect each farm similarly. In terms of the problems freedom, too little now and too much in April, removing excess grass in terms of silage is what the tried and tested solution would be, this of course means carrying more silage reserves through the winter, which you might not use. Having a system that is very adaptable is probably more desirable, ie a cow that will be ok with eating less grass when its not there, but be able to consume more (and obviously produce more milk) when it is, all this while not loosing flesh off her back, and still going back in calf in May.

TBH Timmaay my oul boy could have given me that answer 20 years ago. The question was how does whelan get as much grass as possible into her cows over the next six weeks and avoid making extra silage at the same time. What covers at what stocking rate at what time/growth rates should she turn out her milkers full-time then her youngstock and other cattle to get the first rotation completed by then 7th-10th of April taking on board that she has virtually no grass today?

Pharaoh1

freedominacup wrote: »

The sheep have set you back massively. Whatever chance you had was to have them gone by early Dec with some element of control before that over where they grazed and when. You are now looking at no covers and slow growth and to add insult to injury you will probably end up with a lot of grass coming together which you will find hard to utilise properly. Time for the grass measuring afficionadoes to man up and plot a way around the two problems.
i.e. not enough now and the strong likelihood of a large surplus in early-mid April.

Not a regular grass measurer but Teagasc advisor called last week and eyeballed an average cover of 550 - 600kg ha. Had already turned out 16 weanlings and a quick calculation revealed enough grass for 45 to 50 days for these and this was a conservative estimate. That's too much so 10 more to go out this week.

We did the same excercise this time last year and it worked well - I'm probably naturally too cautious so its good to do the figures. My own eyeballing is coming on a bit too - I was guessing fairly close to adviser figures.

whelan1

Pharaoh1 wrote: »

Not a regular grass measurer but Teagasc advisor called last week and eyeballed an average cover of 550 - 600kg ha. Had already turned out 16 weanlings and a quick calculation revealed enough grass for 45 to 50 days for these and this was a conservative estimate. That's too much so 10 more to go out this week.

We did the same excercise this time last year and it worked well - I'm probably naturally too cautious so its good to do the figures. My own eyeballing is coming on a bit too - I was guessing fairly close to adviser figures.

a lad learnt me a handy way last year, when you eyeball the grass, say in your head what you think its between, so lets say its between 500-1000, then narrow it down to is it above 750 or below then narrow it down again, sounds silly but i did that mentally for along time til i got the hang of it

freedominacup

whelan1 wrote: »

a lad learnt me a handy way last year, when you eyeball the grass, say in your head what you think its between, so lets say its between 500-1000, then narrow it down to is it above 750 or below then narrow it down again, sounds silly but i did that mentally for along time til i got the hang of it

Where did it all go wrong so:D:D?

whelan1

freedominacup wrote: »

Where did it all go wrong so:D:D?

with about 200 fecking ewes:eek:

freedominacup

whelan1 wrote: »

with about 200 fecking ewes:eek:

I'll see your 200 and raise you 120 but those fookers were only trespassing but it went on for too long and we were starting to loose the plot in the end. Yer man had a great "ah shur" attitude.
The dedicated grass measurers are full of plans and ideas to help you through this difficult time though aren't they?:rolleyes:

bob charles

I was told you grow more grass when measuring, :rolleyes:. Would like the figures of total grass grown after having those blobs of wool around versus not having them in for grass keep. Me thinks you would find you grow more DM per ha after having tack sheep in. If conditions are good and the cows are out in low covers just give them as much buffer feed as they will eat. I dont see where the problem is. make as much use of your grass when conditions allow. pointless trying to graze in poor conditions. People really have to get your head around proper buffer feeding and if you get it spot on you will see major benefits if pushing animals hard. Easy to formulate a buffer this time of the year as grass is low in sugars, gets more tricky when the sun starts shining as NFC's, RFC's, etc can go crazy.

freedominacup

bob charles wrote: »

I was told you grow more grass when measuring, :rolleyes:. Would like the figures of total grass grown after having those blobs of wool around versus not having them in for grass keep. Me thinks you would find you grow more DM per ha after having tack sheep in. If conditions are good and the cows are out in low covers just give them as much buffer feed as they will eat. I dont see where the problem is. make as much use of your grass when conditions allow. pointless trying to graze in poor conditions. People really have to get your head around proper buffer feeding and if you get it spot on you will see major benefits if pushing animals hard. Easy to formulate a buffer this time of the year as grass is low in sugars, gets more tricky when the sun starts shining as NFC's, RFC's, etc can go crazy.

NFC/RFC? True enough about the buffer feeding. We used to work of an assumed intake of 16 kg/dm from grass and go from there at peak grass growth.

whelan1

ok so for another question:D i reseeded 6 acres in august 2011, this was heavy ground, the weather was crap since and i put the famous sheep on it to clean it off, there is amillion and 1 rushes on it, i topped it today - well my husband did while we tested- and we are going to spray it. so how long do i leave before spraying and what do i spray it with? The field was travellable for the first time now more so than it was all last year, i got it soil tested and it needs o's . is ok for lime... would do well if it got slurry, would you wait til after spraying to put on slurry or o's

td5man

whelan1 wrote: »

ok so for another question:D i reseeded 6 acres in august 2011, this was heavy ground, the weather was crap since and i put the famous sheep on it to clean it off, there is amillion and 1 rushes on it, i topped it today - well my husband did while we tested- and we are going to spray it. so how long do i leave before spraying and what do i spray it with? The field was travellable for the first time now more so than it was all last year, i got it soil tested and it needs o's . is ok for lime... would do well if it got slurry, would you wait til after spraying to put on slurry or o's

You'ii have to let the rushes grow again before you spray, don't know what you'd spray with as theres no rushes round here
A good dose of watery slurry would do it the world of good if the ground will carry a tank.
Mortone is good but not as good as a spray that a neighbour found in his shed, he knew it was for rushes but the label had long disappeared but it killed every rush in the place.

whelan1

td5man wrote: »

You'ii have to let the rushes grow again before you spray, don't know what you'd spray with as theres no rushes round here
A good dose of watery slurry would do it the world of good if the ground will carry a tank.

was told to top them as spray would just run of them other wise, i reckon the rushes must have blown in from my neighbours field:D:D:D when you you go with the slurry?

mf240

whelan1 wrote: »

ok so for another question:D i reseeded 6 acres in august 2011, this was heavy ground, the weather was crap since and i put the famous sheep on it to clean it off, there is amillion and 1 rushes on it, i topped it today - well my husband did while we tested- and we are going to spray it. so how long do i leave before spraying and what do i spray it with? The field was travellable for the first time now more so than it was all last year, i got it soil tested and it needs o's . is ok for lime... would do well if it got slurry, would you wait til after spraying to put on slurry or o's

I would put A LOT of slurry on it chances are another belt of the topper in the summer (touches wood) will see them off. Rushes hate slurry they also love acidic ground but you say its ok for lime.

Manoffeeling

whelan1 wrote: »

ok so for another question:D i reseeded 6 acres in august 2011, this was heavy ground, the weather was crap since and i put the famous sheep on it to clean it off, there is amillion and 1 rushes on it, i topped it today - well my husband did while we tested- and we are going to spray it. so how long do i leave before spraying and what do i spray it with? The field was travellable for the first time now more so than it was all last year, i got it soil tested and it needs o's . is ok for lime... would do well if it got slurry, would you wait til after spraying to put on slurry or o's

You might have to reseed it

whelan1

mf240 wrote: »

I would put A LOT of slurry on it chances are another belt of the topper in the summer (touches wood) will see them off. Rushes hate slurry they also love acidic ground but you say its ok for lime.

so if its not raining in the morning would you put slurry on it ? or leave it a while?

mf240

No reason I can see to wait if ground is dry enough.

delaval

Whelan did you get urea out yet?
Ok, you think it's all gone wrong but there is light at the end of the tunnel. You have a good % of your farm grazed at this stage maybe a little too much but not to worry. Any one serious about growing grass must have in excess of 33% grazed be 1/3. You have this done in spades. All this ground will grow lots when growth comes.

Regarding silage ground we need to forget the old notion of a specific area for silage, forget silage until surplus arrives. Be careful your farm will grow alot of grass together and you may be tempted to let more go to silage than you should. I say this for the simple reason that you will then be short of grass while waiting for aftergrass. I would recommend you take 25% of your silage eary to avoid this happening.
You need to strictly allocate grass to your cows along with buffer 'till 10/04 considering your land is so late. Under no circumstances should you spread slurry on this 'till it's grazed. I would recommend 2000gls / acre on grazed ground.

There is no point worrying about sheep the harm is done but on the plus they do sweeten ground. You know what to do next back end and this is what sets up the spring.
anyone who wonders what grass budgeting and planning is, should read your post because your's is the opposite.
The only place for 'land lice' on a dairy farm is in the freezer.

bob charles

freedominacup wrote: »

NFC/RFC? True enough about the buffer feeding. We used to work of an assumed intake of 16 kg/dm from grass and go from there at peak grass growth.

NFC - Non fibre carbs
RFC - Rumen fermentable carbs

16kgs DM sounds low for your big girls. 2% of liveweight is DM intake for my beef animals. Think Flstan said that his cows had intakes of 4% bodyweight around 24kgs :eek:

freedominacup

bob charles wrote: »

NFC - Non fibre carbs
RFC - Rumen fermentable carbs

16kgs DM sounds low for your big girls. 2% of liveweight is DM intake for my beef animals. Think Flstan said that his cows had intakes of 4% bodyweight around 24kgs :eek:

16 from grass buffer to between 22 and 24 after that. You coul get more than 16 but not reliably enough.

delaval

bob charles wrote: »

NFC - Non fibre carbs
RFC - Rumen fermentable carbs

16kgs DM sounds low for your big girls. 2% of liveweight is DM intake for my beef animals. Think Flstan said that his cows had intakes of 4% bodyweight around 24kgs :eek:

With Xbreds we aim for 17 kg dm, Stan and Maloney's very different machines:eek::eek:

bob charles

delaval wrote: »

The only place for 'land lice' on a dairy farm is in the freezer.

Completely disagree. Maybe in Whelans case they grazed too long, but considering some of her grass was poorly grassed off last year and back end, if this crap grass wasnt removed it wouldnt be worth a crap now. Have you ever harvested grass after sheep versus after just cattle grazing. You will find a much higher amount of DM per acre and also much better quality stuff.

bob charles

freedominacup wrote: »

16 from grass buffer to between 22 and 24 after that. You coul get more than 16 but not reliably enough.

Sorry misread your post about 16kgs from grass and then add on from that.

Guys what weight would your cows be? 650kgs? and at what sort of yield are you talking about. how much energy per kilo/cals per kilo of feed are yous trying to get into the girls

delaval

bob charles wrote: »

Completely disagree. Maybe in Whelans case they grazed too long, but considering some of her grass was poorly grassed off last year and back end, if this crap grass wasnt removed it wouldnt be worth a crap now. Have you ever harvested grass after sheep versus after just cattle grazing. You will find a much higher amount of DM per acre and also much better quality stuff.

I would agree in a situation where sr is low but the kitchen table is the only place at high sr's.

We have one sheep farming neighbour and he had problems keeping them at home.It was an out farm where we milk for the summer and the paddocks that could not be seen from road would be grazed bare. When ever the cows would be going to these paddocks they would run down the roadway:):)

mf240

delaval wrote: »

I would agree in a situation where sr is low but the kitchen table is the only place at high sr's.

We have one sheep farming neighbour and he had problems keeping them at home.It was an out farm where we milk for the summer and the paddocks that could not be seen from road would be grazed bare. When ever the cows would be going to these paddocks they would run down the roadway:):)

Ok taking things way off topic but can you give some more information on this out farm.

Do you calve these cows at home and then take them too it.?

Do you have more than one herd of cows in summer?

whelan1

my discussion group came to my farm last april, previous to that they where all laughing at me having the sheep in. They could not get over the grass quality, hope its like that in april again this year.....:o