Overtaken in a 50 zone outside a school by a HGV

the culture of deference

So yesterday I was driving from ballinea on the R390 heading into Mullingar. It is a pretty sh1t road at the best of times. There is a 50 zone for 1/2 km outside a school. My speedo was reading 56k.

A 40ft HGV with the markings P & F Gillian or Gillan overtook and passed me out right outside the school crossing a single white line. I am trying to track down this company to report this to the gardai and the transport manager of the company. I have att. a photo of where he overtook me.

Does anyone recognise this company name.

deandean

I was very nearly killed on the M50 by a completely reckless HGV driver a few years back, it was a well-known transport company.

I called the Garda traffic watch number, I instigated a formal complaint, I was in touch with gardai lots of times, but the company in question kept telling gardai that it could have been one of 30 trucks, it could have been one of 80 drivers, they just cannot tell etc etc. Eventually the case was dropped, despite my persistence/insistence on pursuing the case.

So for future reference, if you're ever going to complain a HGV, you really need to get a solid look at the driver and/or report of the vehicle and follow it until it is intercepted by gardai.

CiniO

Was the school open and were the kids around? Parrents picking up? Etc?

the culture of deference

CiniO wrote: »

Was the school open and were the kids around? Parrents picking up? Etc?

It was 5pm. 3 or 4 cars parked outside the school.

CiniO

the culture of deference wrote: »

It was 5pm. 3 or 4 cars parked outside the school.

I don't know really, but for me it looks like perfectly straight stretch of road with good visibility.
I know it's illegal to cross continuous white line, but to be honest this line is there just because it's a school, and when kids are around, it's badly needed.

Surely HGV driver deserves a penalty for crossing continous white line (I'm not sure if it's 80euro and 2 points), but it's hard to see too much danger is his driving assuming there was no one around.

I wouldn't bother reporting such behaviour unless it was dangerous.


Your picutre is quite small, so here the proper view: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=r390+mullingar&hl=en&ll=53.512133,-7.397806&spn=0.001354,0.003484&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=58.206849,114.169922&t=h&hnear=R390,+Mullingar,+County+Westmeath,+Ireland&z=19&layer=c&cbll=53.512102,-7.39796&panoid=iJAvvxh8qrDofgXg1eiHUQ&cbp=12,80.97,,0,15.87

Eric Cartman

the culture of deference wrote: »

It was 5pm. 3 or 4 cars parked outside the school.

school had been closed for a couple of hours, im not saying the truck driver was right , but your thread is now effectively "overtaken in a 50 zone by a hgv" the school has no baring on the scenario if there's no kids around.

road_high

I thought the same guys when I saw photo, was afraid I'd lambasted here for saying it though...reasonably wide road there with decent visibility. And presumably still bright at 5.00pm.
We are of course only hearing one side of the story. Sure HGV guy broke the rules but who's to say he wasn't stuck in sheer frustration for miles behind the OP and saw this as an opp to get by. (despite breaking the rules as stated).

tossy

I've regularly found myself outside a school at 5pm or later picking up kids from Basketball,Football,Study etc school doesn't END when the majority of kids go home at 3pm or whatever.

hiscan

Sounds like it could be this company you're looking for but as has been mentioned,if you didn't act straight away I can't see what can be done now.

the culture of deference

hiscan wrote: »

Sounds like it could be this company you're looking for but as has been mentioned,if you didn't act straight away I can't see what can be done now.

I have contacted the fleet manager. Thanks all.
I have dash cam so video going to the gardai.

the culture of deference

road_high wrote: »

I thought the same guys when I saw photo, was afraid I'd lambasted here for saying it though...reasonably wide road there with decent visibility. And presumably still bright at 5.00pm.
We are of course only hearing one side of the story. Sure HGV guy broke the rules but who's to say he wasn't stuck in sheer frustration for miles behind the OP and saw this as an opp to get by. (despite breaking the rules as stated).

It's a bad road, loads of bends, it is also a 50km zone.

So you support HGV's ignoring the speed limit, overtaking on single carriageways, and putting my life and others in danger.



The photo is from google maps
[/B]

ofcork

deandean wrote: »

I was very nearly killed on the M50 by a completely reckless HGV driver a few years back, it was a well-known transport company.

I called the Garda traffic watch number, I instigated a formal complaint, I was in touch with gardai lots of times, but the company in question kept telling gardai that it could have been one of 30 trucks, it could have been one of 80 drivers, they just cannot tell etc etc. Eventually the case was dropped, despite my persistence/insistence on pursuing the case.

So for future reference, if you're ever going to complain a HGV, you really need to get a solid look at the driver and/or report of the vehicle and follow it until it is intercepted by gardai.

Alot of transport companies have satnav/vehicle tracking fitted to their fleets so they can get all info on location speed etc.

JMSE

Damn it I drive a hgv and I would know, so believe me when I say that about 80% of artic drivers are spanners and would not know how to keep distance if something bit them on the arse (to do with it). You did right, OP.

CiniO

the culture of deference wrote: »

I have contacted the fleet manager. Thanks all.
I have dash cam so video going to the gardai.

I think fleet manager might be more interested that his drivers make it at schedules time to schedules place, than they don't break the continuous white line.

I suppose if you send a dashcam recording to the gardai, they will have to fine the driver for braking the line.


Funny I has similar situation few months ago.
I was driving 50 seater coach at about 60km/h on bendy road with very few places to overtake. I know it's a hell for drivers behind me as there is virtually nowhere to overtake and I can't go much faster.
This particular time there was a garda car behind me. We approached a place with bends and continuous white line, but with perfect visibility for overtaking. Often people overtake there, as it's just safe, even though it's illegal.
However I kept looking in the mirror to see if gard is going to chance it or not. And obviously he did. He overtookme nice and smoothly on continuous white line. I didn't have a dashcam with me, but if I had one (and I was bit mad), I could probably report it.

johnayo

the culture of deference wrote: »

I have contacted the fleet manager. Thanks all.
I have dash cam so video going to the gardai.

This could be interesting. Can you please keep us posted on your progress OP?

CiniO

the culture of deference wrote: »

It's a bad road, loads of bends, it is also a 50km zone.

So you support HGV's ignoring the speed limit, overtaking on single carriageways, and putting my life and others in danger.



The photo is from google maps
[/B]

How did he put your life at danger?

Also was there any others who were endangered?

Maybe the road is bendy, but this particular stretch you showed is really straight.

To be honest - if school wasn't there, then there would be no limit to 50, and no continuous white line.
So then this HGV would overtook you legally. Would this not bring the same danger to you?

Del2005

CiniO wrote: »

I think fleet manager might be more interested that his drivers make it at schedules time to schedules place, than they don't break the continuous white line.

I suppose if you send a dashcam recording to the gardai, they will have to fine the driver for braking the line.


Funny I has similar situation few months ago.
I was driving 50 seater coach at about 60km/h on bendy road with very few places to overtake. I know it's a hell for drivers behind me as there is virtually nowhere to overtake and I can't go much faster.
This particular time there was a garda car behind me. We approached a place with bends and continuous white line, but with perfect visibility for overtaking. Often people overtake there, as it's just safe, even though it's illegal.
However I kept looking in the mirror to see if gard is going to chance it or not. And obviously he did. He overtookme nice and smoothly on continuous white line. I didn't have a dashcam with me, but if I had one (and I was bit mad), I could probably report it.

Gardaí are exempt from most traffic laws while on duty. They did nothing illegal in overtaking you, but I'd bet they'd do an ordinary motorist.

the culture of deference

CiniO wrote: »

I suppose if you send a dashcam recording to the gardai, they will have to fine the driver for braking the line.

Some posters seem not to understand this

It is a 50km speed limit zone

A continuous white line on a sh1t road outside a school that had cars in the parking area

The truck appeared on my arse and went past me doing at least 80kmh

RustyNut

the culture of deference wrote: »

I have contacted the fleet manager. Thanks all.
I have dash cam so video going to the gardai.

Speaking as a full time truck driver, well done OP. No excuse for a truck to be overtaking there.

will.i.am

Well have you any proof it happened?
Any evidence of the incident actually taking place?
How do you know you speedometer isn't reading incorrectly?
You say you were doing 56km in a 50km zone so what would have happened if a kid stepped out in front of you those six km could have made a huge differences So should you also receive a fixed penalty for speeding?

Kenny Logins

will.i.am wrote: »

Well have you any proof it happened?
Any evidence of the incident actually taking place?
How do you know you speedometer isn't reading incorrectly?
You say you were doing 56km in a 50km zone so what would have happened if a kid stepped out in front of you those six km could have made a huge differences So should you also receive a fixed penalty for speeding?

Dash cam.

will.i.am

Kenny Logins wrote: »

Dash cam.

Good so!
One driver prosecuted for dangerous driving/overtaking and one prosecuted for speeding! Happy days!!:D

johnayo

CiniO wrote: »

I think fleet manager might be more interested that his drivers make it at schedules time to schedules place, than they don't break the continuous white line.

I suppose if you send a dashcam recording to the gardai, they will have to fine the driver for braking the line.


Funny I has similar situation few months ago.
I was driving 50 seater coach at about 60km/h on bendy road with very few places to overtake. I know it's a hell for drivers behind me as there is virtually nowhere to overtake and I can't go much faster.
This particular time there was a garda car behind me. We approached a place with bends and continuous white line, but with perfect visibility for overtaking. Often people overtake there, as it's just safe, even though it's illegal.
However I kept looking in the mirror to see if gard is going to chance it or not. And obviously he did. He overtookme nice and smoothly on continuous white line. I didn't have a dashcam with me, but if I had one (and I was bit mad), I could probably report it.

I wonder if the Garda would prosecute on the basis of dash cam evidence.
Has anyone on here submitted this type of evidence and a prosecution took place?

tossy

will.i.am wrote: »

Well have you any proof it happened?
Any evidence of the incident actually taking place?
How do you know you speedometer isn't reading incorrectly?
You say you were doing 56km in a 50km zone so what would have happened if a kid stepped out in front of you those six km could have made a huge differences So should you also receive a fixed penalty for speeding?

....

but stick to the singing,your reply is useless.You didn't even give him the courteous of reading the thread before wading in,your reply is so righteous you repeated yourself in it.

RustyNut

johnayo wrote: »

I wonder if the Garda would prosecute on the basis of dash cam evidence.
Has anyone on here submitted this type of evidence and a prosecution took place?

Might be hard to prove in court. Who was driving etc.

kasper

i live not too far from that location and almost every time i am passing that school i get overtaken by someone

CiniO

Del2005 wrote: »

Gardaí are exempt from most traffic laws while on duty. They did nothing illegal in overtaking you, but I'd bet they'd do an ordinary motorist.

So gards can just literally not obey traffic law, even if they are driving from garda station A to garda station B in a squad car without any emergency?

I completely wasn't aware of this.

I know from Poland, that Police can fail to obey traffic law only in course of duties which require them to break that law (f.e. chasing criminals, offenders, etc) but they must have their blue flashing light on, unless when operation is undercover (but that's special circumstances).
However there is no way a policeman could legally break road traffic law, when driving police car from A to B without any emergency.

There was many cases where police officers were reported for f.e. parking their squad cars illegally f.e. when they had their lunch break, and they were done for it.

So I though this was quite normal.

Is it really difference in Ireland?
Does anyone has any links saying that?

CiniO

the culture of deference wrote: »

Some posters seem not to understand this

It is a 50km speed limit zone

A continuous white line on a sh1t road outside a school that had cars in the parking area

The truck appeared on my arse and went past me doing at least 80kmh

I understand that.
That's why that driver deserves a fine for crossing the white line and for speeding as well in that case.
You mentioned however you had 56 on your speedo, so technically it is possible you were speeding as well, so you could be fined too.

What I was talking about is that this spot looks like nice straight stretch, which would be ideal for overtaking if school wasn't there.
Because of the school there is speed limit and continuous white line and I agree it makes sense.

But you said you were endangered by truck driver, while in fact I can't see how, as school was closed, and it was probably perfectly safe to overtake.
If school was not there at all, there would be 80km/h speed limit and broken white line. Would you feel endangered as well if truck overtook you there assuming school wasn't there at all?

Bunny Buster

When lodging your complaint, be sure to highlight the fact that the speeding truck driver overtook you while you were speeding! You didn't exactly start this thread off on a good note. For the record, I think that the truck driver acted wrongly, as did you and in my opinion, you both should get done as a result!

deandean

ofcork wrote: »

Alot of transport companies have satnav/vehicle tracking fitted to their fleets so they can get all info on location speed etc.

Ye they have that technology for sure. But ask tbem to produce it in support of a prosecution for one of their drivers...those zystems are fierce unreliable, no backups etc

kasper

there was a 6 year old little girl knocked down and killed on that stretch of road shown on google map in an earlier , it happened 10 to 15 years ago

RustyNut

CiniO wrote: »

But you said you were endangered by truck driver, while in fact I can't see how, as school was closed, and it was probably perfectly safe to overtake.
If school was not there at all, there would be 80km/h speed limit and broken white line. Would you feel endangered as well if truck overtook you there assuming school wasn't there at all?

If the truck was a helicopter it could have flown over the car but it wasn't.

There is a continues white line, 50 k limit and a school that could well be open at 5 in the evening for all sorts of after school and other non school related community activities.

The OP was IMHO endangered by the truck driver when he put himself and his truck onto the side of the road, where people would not expect him to be at a speed which would make it extremely difficult for him to deal with any unexpected issues.

Purely Hypotheticly,

As the OP and truck are approaching, a kid is sitting on the ground at the entrance to the school parking area fixing his skateboard. He is obscured by the hedges and can't be seen by the truck or the car. When the board is ready to go the kid takes a quick look up the road,he can only see to the right because of the hedge but it's clear so out he goes not expecting an artic to be speeding on the wrong side of the road and in an attempt to avoid the kid who came out of nowhere the OP gets run into a telegraph pole.


A little far fetched maby not impossible, or unforseeable.

Cash is king

Are you going to post the video for us?

Del2005

CiniO wrote: »

So gards can just literally not obey traffic law, even if they are driving from garda station A to garda station B in a squad car without any emergency?

I completely wasn't aware of this.

I know from Poland, that Police can fail to obey traffic law only in course of duties which require them to break that law (f.e. chasing criminals, offenders, etc) but they must have their blue flashing light on, unless when operation is undercover (but that's special circumstances).
However there is no way a policeman could legally break road traffic law, when driving police car from A to B without any emergency.

There was many cases where police officers were reported for f.e. parking their squad cars illegally f.e. when they had their lunch break, and they were done for it.

So I though this was quite normal.

Is it really difference in Ireland?
Does anyone has any links saying that?

Do a search of this site for Garda bashing, you'll be amazed at what they get up to.

RustyNut wrote: »

Purely Hypotheticly,

As the OP and truck are approaching, a kid is sitting on the ground at the entrance to the school parking area fixing his skateboard. He is obscured by the hedges and can't be seen by the truck or the car. When the board is ready to go the kid takes a quick look up the road,he can only see to the right because of the hedge but it's clear so out he goes not expecting an artic to be speeding on the wrong side of the road and in an attempt to avoid the kid who came out of nowhere the OP gets run into a telegraph pole.


A little far fetched maby not impossible, or unforseeable.

The child should be though to look both ways. For any action on a road there is a worst possible consequence if you look at the world that way.

RustyNut

Del2005 wrote: »

The child should be though to look both ways. For any action on a road there is a worst possible consequence if you look at the world that way.

Indeed in this case we are lookin at the possible consequence of a truck speeding on the wrong side of the road passed a school.

CiniO

RustyNut wrote: »

Indeed in this case we are lookin at the possible consequence of a truck speeding on the wrong side of the road passed a school.

This kid with a skateboards, could do the same one mile further from anywhere, where there is broken line, and limit to 80, and what the truck was doing would be perfectly legal.

RustyNut

CiniO wrote: »

This kid with a skateboards, could do the same one mile further from anywhere, where there is broken line, and limit to 80, and what the truck was doing would be perfectly legal.

I'm not getting your point.

CiniO

RustyNut wrote: »

I'm not getting your point.

You are saying that truck shouldn't be speeding and overtaking by the school (even though it's closed) because there might be some crazy kid with a skateboard.

I'm saying, that this crazy kid with a skateboard, could be virtually anywhere. He is the same likely to be by the school, as 1 mile further coming out of the shrubs, where there is no more continuous white line or 50 speed limit, so what the truck was doing would be legal there.

My point is that everyone should be using their brain when driving and not just simply follow the rules.
If there is a speed limit for the school, it's obvious that obeying it f.e. in the middle of the night where there are no kids in school, makes little sense.

On the other hand, if you have a suspision there might be a drunken man walking by the road at night (because there was a bingo in the pub and some people might be coming home) then even though there is a limit to 100km/h you might need to slow down.

Cash is king

RustyNut wrote: »

I'm not getting your point.

I don't think anyone is.

RustyNut

CiniO wrote: »

You are saying that truck shouldn't be speeding and overtaking by the school (even though it's closed) because there might be some crazy kid with a skateboard.

I'm saying, that this crazy kid with a skateboard, could be virtually anywhere. He is the same likely to be by the school, as 1 mile further coming out of the shrubs, where there is no more continuous white line or 50 speed limit, so what the truck was doing would be legal there.

My point is that everyone should be using their brain when driving and not just simply follow the rules.
If there is a speed limit for the school, it's obvious that obeying it f.e. in the middle of the night where there are no kids in school, makes little sense.

On the other hand, if you have a suspision there might be a drunken man walking by the road at night (because there was a bingo in the pub and some people might be coming home) then even though there is a limit to 100km/h you might need to slow down.

I'm honestly shocked that you,or any other professional driver are not outraged by some hooligan driving flat out passed a school on the wrong side of the road at a time when it's very likely to be in use.

SV

the culture of deference wrote: »

Some posters seem not to understand this

It is a 50km speed limit zone

A continuous white line on a sh1t road outside a school that had cars in the parking area

The truck appeared on my arse and went past me doing at least 80kmh

If I type in bigger fonts people will definitely listen to me.

ManMade

the culture of deference wrote: »

So yesterday I was driving from ballinea on the R390 heading into Mullingar. It is a pretty sh1t road at the best of times. There is a 50 zone for 1/2 km outside a school. My speedo was reading 56k.

A 40ft HGV with the markings P & F Gillian or Gillan overtook and passed me out right outside the school crossing a single white line. I am trying to track down this company to report this to the gardai and the transport manager of the company. I have att. a photo of where he overtook me.

Does anyone recognise this company name.

So it's alright for you to break the speed limit? Outside a school on a pretty sh*te road.


If you really care about road safety you'll be presenting yourself to the guards and taking 2 points on the chin for speeding? Of course?

RainyDay

CiniO wrote: »

Surely HGV driver deserves a penalty for crossing continuous white line (I'm not sure if it's 80euro and 2 points), but it's hard to see too much danger is his driving assuming there was no one around.

Ever heard of after-school activities? There would often be kids and parents hanging round schools in the late afternoon. You can be sure that the HGV driver had no idea what activities were going on in the school at that time, when he decided to cross the continuous white line.

galwaytt

Bunny Buster wrote: »

When lodging your complaint, be sure to highlight the fact that the speeding truck driver overtook you while you were speeding! You didn't exactly start this thread off on a good note. For the record, I think that the truck driver acted wrongly, as did you and in my opinion, you both should get done as a result!

Actually, its unlikely OP was speeding. At an INDICATED 56km/h he was most likely doing just the limit.
Your speedo isn't calibrated. It is deliberately designed to over-indicate. AGS do not use car speedo's to measure your speed: that's what the very expensive lasers, radar and camera's are for.

Therefore OP has no case to answer, really.

road_high

the culture of deference wrote: »

It's a bad road, loads of bends, it is also a 50km zone.

So you support HGV's ignoring the speed limit, overtaking on single carriageways, and putting my life and others in danger.



The photo is from google maps
[/B]

Drama queen much? The pic of the road you showed where it overtake looked adequate.
A truck overtake you at between 50-60 kmh...big deal. I'm sure if you were using your mirrors you couldn't have missed him/her and had the chance to slow a little and let the HGV by. Just move on.

knotknowbody

RustyNut wrote: »

I'm not getting your point.

I think what CiniO is saying is that were the school not there it would be an ideal overtaking spot on a crappy road, it not really relevant as were the school not there the O.P would most likely be travelling at a higher speed which would make the overtake the truck carried out unneeded.

To the O.P at what point did the truck commence his overtake, there is broken white line on approach to the school, did the overtake commence before this became solid, if so the truck driver may have been perfectly correct to overtake especially if he did not know the road or what was ahead.

newmug

The school even has a pull-in type yoke for cars, its not right out to the side of the road. OP you may be right from a legal point of view, but you're way off from a common sense point of view.

CiniO

galwaytt wrote: »

Actually, its unlikely OP was speeding. At an INDICATED 56km/h he was most likely doing just the limit.
Your speedo isn't calibrated. It is deliberately designed to over-indicate. AGS do not use car speedo's to measure your speed: that's what the very expensive lasers, radar and camera's are for.

Therefore OP has no case to answer, really.

His speedo would need be out by 12% to achieve it.
Most speedoes are out by between 3% - 8% from my experience.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's very unlikely.
Most like OP was speeding.
And as in Irish law there is no difference whether you are speeding by 3km/h or 30km/h, then he was committing the same offence as truck driver.

CiniO

RainyDay wrote: »

Ever heard of after-school activities? There would often be kids and parents hanging round schools in the late afternoon. You can be sure that the HGV driver had no idea what activities were going on in the school at that time, when he decided to cross the continuous white line.

I'm not saying that he had idea what's happening, but I assume that as a truck driver (which is a person spending loadz of time on the road) he probably did notice if there was any kids or not.
Only fool would speed and overtake by the school full or running kids.

alias no.9

CiniO wrote: »

His speedo would need be out by 12% to achieve it.
Most speedoes are out by between 3% - 8% from my experience.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's very unlikely.
Most like OP was speeding.
And as in Irish law there is no difference whether you are speeding by 3km/h or 30km/h, then he was committing the same offence as truck driver.

The OP may have been exceeding the limit, truck was committing multiple offences.

The Dagda

I'm sure the truck driver would have an equally biased slant on the story if he had his own thread.

Nothing happened OP get off your high horse and move on.

Dash cam and Gardai :rolleyes: