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Driver Check - lets taxi users check their driver

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,455 ✭✭✭Where To


    well listen to the jnr minister in the podcast link http://t.co/l4MFGBOYxN talking about how its "realtime", do the drivers/operators ring somebody up in the nta? or what, i mean if drivers are swapping cars nightly?
    Yeah, they can either ring or there is a 'taxi portal' app that lets you update what vehicle you are operating and how long you will be operating it for.

    I was just putting diesel in a car that is licenced as a small public service vehicle in my name, insured as a small public service vehicle in my name, and taxed as a small public service in my name, but I am still breaking the law because I have someone else registered on the app to drive it. (I was on UK signal at the time so changing the details for the 15 minutes it took to do this would be far more costly than the €40 fine I have risked.)

    But don't worry, I have reported myself to the NTA and await their reply.:pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,865 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    ah here some details this industry app was started last year http://irishtaxi.org/forum/index.php?topic=22234.0

    http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/DebatesWebPack.nsf/takes/dail2013021200082

    https://itunes.apple.com/ie/app/taxi-industry-portal/id590676209?mt=8
    https://taxi.nationaltransport.ie/


    i guess temporary changes account for some of the missing info, but still ?

    this app is meant to reassure public but the minister goes then tells the public they don't have 30% of the info which just begs concern

    do commerical taxi apps have api access to this nta database?

    funny review on the taxi check app https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.osds.cabs2


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Where To wrote: »
    Yeah, they can either ring or there is a 'taxi portal' app that lets you update what vehicle you are operating and how long you will be operating it for.

    I was just putting diesel in a car that is licenced as a small public service vehicle in my name, insured as a small public service vehicle in my name, and taxed as a small public service in my name, but I am still breaking the law because I have someone else registered on the app to drive it. (I was on UK signal at the time so changing the details for the 15 minutes it took to do this would be far more costly than the €40 fine I have risked.)

    But don't worry, I have reported myself to the NTA and await their reply.:pac:

    You would only have been breaking the law if you were plying for hire


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,865 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    update on this app http://www.transportforireland.ie/taxi/taxi-driver-check/ use and cost by Mark Tighe and Stephen O'Brien 'Agency spends €434,000 on app to monitor taxis' http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/ireland/article1420066.ece

    its not clear in the article but the cost includes the taxi industry portal app where taximen update their details https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.osds.cabs2.industry or they can use another company that delas with taxi men who prefer to use the phone the old way

    may be part of or as follow on of this NTA awards €1.4m software deal to Open Sky Data http://www.siliconrepublic.com/enterprise/item/28762-nta-awards-1-4m-software-d

    the web version isn't working for me http://www.transportforireland.ie/taxi/check-if-a-taxi-driver-is-properly-licensed/ not everything has to be an 'app' hmm maybe becuase of complaints from drivers see here http://irishtaxi.org/forum/index.php/topic,23436.30.html

    talking to taximen says the web version was taken down because as it wasn't connected to people phones they deemed it open to anonymous abuse of false reporting, of course we all know that the anonymity of the web is exaggerated, but maybe people could make false reports at web cafes and it would take longer to track down..., still not everyone has a smartphone, they could keep the check part and remove the report button and leave a phone number.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,865 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    this system isn't the first registration with the regulator its the daily changes of who driving which car i wonder if the hailo and other similar apps are hooked into to it?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,865 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Taxi drivers say transport authorities put them at risk http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/taxi-drivers-say-transport-authorities-put-them-at-risk-1.1888404
    Representatives claim release of home addresses leaves them open to violent attacks (and then gives examples that don't back up that point)

    ....you can get a taxi operators address with €25

    is the listing of sole traders address so strange?


    Section 38 of the Taxi Regulation Act
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2003/en/act/pub/0025/sec0038.html

    this issue coming up in america http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/neil-mitchell-blog/taxi-register-confusion-clarified/20140723-3ceuo.html they suggest they but down their accountants address


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,865 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    tommy Broughan asking Dail Question about this

    https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2014-10-16a.632&s=tabular#g636.q

    asked whether he thinks its right that its possible home addresses of taxi men are available after €25 fee
    This is a typical legal provision relating to the regulation of business which is designed to promote transparency in terms of licensed and unlicensed operators. I am not aware that this provision creates particular difficulties in the SPSV industry that outweigh these transparency benefits.

    asked how many times the information was accessed and Mnister says he'll get the NTA to tell him

    if you going to target a business person is it really going to taxi man? is there really a possibility they'd have that much money on them, all the attacks and robberies they suffered seem to be sponstaneous


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,119 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    if you going to target a business person is it really going to taxi man? is there really a possibility they'd have that much money on them, all the attacks and robberies they suffered seem to be sponstaneous

    After a weekend a taxi driver will have a few hundred euro cash to hand which can't be lodged into a bank until Monday at the earliest; longer if it's a holiday weekend. I know a driver friend who had a chancer try his house one night years ago assuming there was loose cash to be had. Granted it is a small risk that a gouger will use it to source larceny locations but it's one that is made a little easier through a state register that isn't really benefiting anybody by being there.

    As a side note, the majority of hold ups tend to be planned and follow a set plan of action. Most astute drivers know what to look out for from the get go; some of the greener lads aren't as wise :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,760 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    That putting in an FOI request leaves a very obvious record is one reason people won't be doing that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,865 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    After a weekend a taxi driver will have a few hundred euro cash to hand which can't be lodged into a bank until Monday at the earliest; longer if it's a holiday weekend. I know a driver friend who had a chancer try his house one night years ago assuming there was loose cash to be had. Granted it is a small risk that a gouger will use it to source larceny locations but it's one that is made a little easier through a state register that isn't really benefiting anybody by being there.

    how does he know he was targeted because he was taximan?

    what 'gouger' is going go to the offices and pay 25 quid and get names and then rob those addresses???

    and anybody who serious about robbing businessmen I've only read of them targetting people for 1000s if not 10,000s of Euros.

    I think you can get the information from the council or gardai or perhaps the courts http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2003/en/act/pub/0025/sec0038.html
    a state register that isn't really benefiting anybody by being there.

    Licensed businesses need addresses, thats the benefit.

    As a side note, the majority of hold ups tend to be planned and follow a set plan of action. Most astute drivers know what to look out for from the get go; some of the greener lads aren't as wise :([/QUOTE]

    are these hold ups targetting specific taximen?

    again there is no evidence that anybody has ever used this to rob taximen.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,180 ✭✭✭hfallada


    After a weekend a taxi driver will have a few hundred euro cash to hand which can't be lodged into a bank until Monday at the earliest; longer if it's a holiday weekend. I know a driver friend who had a chancer try his house one night years ago assuming there was loose cash to be had. Granted it is a small risk that a gouger will use it to source larceny locations but it's one that is made a little easier through a state register that isn't really benefiting anybody by being there.

    As a side note, the majority of hold ups tend to be planned and follow a set plan of action. Most astute drivers know what to look out for from the get go; some of the greener lads aren't as wise :(

    Well AIB offer lobby banking from about 8am to 10pm 7 days a week. You can lodge money directly into your account between those times with just your ATM Card. There is no need for any one to store cash until they go to the teller on a Monday morning, as you can do it on a machine.

    Why would someone go the extremes of breaking and entering, researching a taxi man for a few hundred euro, when they can easily rob a €600 mobile off on the streets with no effort at all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    I think the real question is why? If you have a complaint about the taxi/driver you give it to the NTA, if you need to find a taxi (for arguments sake) involved in an accident you go to Garda, I can not actually think of a circumstance where you would need to actually obtain the address of a taxi driver under FOI, so why allow it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,865 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    I think the real question is why? If you have a complaint about the taxi/driver you give it to the NTA, if you need to find a taxi (for arguments sake) involved in an accident you go to Garda, I can not actually think of a circumstance where you would need to actually obtain the address of a taxi driver under FOI, so why allow it?

    its not under FOI, its under license.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    its not under FOI, its under license.


    Whether it's FOI or license is there any circumstance that you can think of where the home address of a taxi driver would/should be required? I can't

    As said before if it's complaints you deal direct with the NTA, if it's legal you deal with the GS


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,119 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    hfallada wrote: »
    Well AIB offer lobby banking from about 8am to 10pm 7 days a week. You can lodge money directly into your account between those times with just your ATM Card. There is no need for any one to store cash until they go to the teller on a Monday morning, as you can do it on a machine.

    Why would someone go the extremes of breaking and entering, researching a taxi man for a few hundred euro, when they can easily rob a €600 mobile off on the streets with no effort at all.

    Good news for those who aren't AIB customers, isn't it? :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,865 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    nature of the information contained on the online SPSV register maintained by the National Transport Authority https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2014-10-16a.632&s=tabular#g636.q where is it?

    this http://www.transportforireland.ie/taxi/check-if-a-taxi-driver-is-properly-licensed/ what info does it show about a driver?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    nature of the information contained on the online SPSV register maintained by the National Transport Authority https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2014-10-16a.632&s=tabular#g636.q where is it?

    this http://www.transportforireland.ie/taxi/check-if-a-taxi-driver-is-properly-licensed/ what info does it show about a driver?

    Name address etc. Sort of stuff that phishing emails start looking for identity theft


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,865 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Name address etc. Sort of stuff that phishing emails start looking for identity theft

    really did you enter a number, I've no number to check what information comes back


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    really did you enter a number, I've no number to check what information comes back

    Sorry, my misunderstanding.

    The driver check app only provides details of which vehicle the driver is attached to, or if the vehicle is a registered taxi, dependant on if you put a driver number, plate number or registration number.

    The SPSV driver records contain much more information, including home address, telephone contact number, pps number, tax clearance state, photographs, expirary dates etc.

    I've never felt the need to spend €25 to find out which information they hand out, but AFAIK your home address is one of them


    EDIT

    your link comes up
    This Connection is Untrusted

    You have asked Firefox to connect securely to publicregister.nationaltransport.ie, but we can't confirm that your connection is secure.

    Normally, when you try to connect securely, sites will present trusted identification to prove that you are going to the right place. However, this site's identity can't be verified.
    What Should I Do?

    If you usually connect to this site without problems, this error could mean that someone is trying to impersonate the site, and you shouldn't continue.

    publicregister.nationaltransport.ie uses an invalid security certificate. The certificate is not trusted because no issuer chain was provided. (Error code: sec_error_unknown_issuer)


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,865 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Whether it's FOI or license is there any circumstance that you can think of where the home address of a taxi driver would/should be required? I can't

    you don't think business addresses should be available? even with a fee?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,865 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Sorry, my misunderstanding.

    The driver check app only provides details of which vehicle the driver is attached to, or if the vehicle is a registered taxi, dependant on if you put a driver number, plate number or registration number.

    The SPSV driver records contain much more information, including home address, telephone contact number, pps number, tax clearance state, photographs, expirary dates etc.

    I've never felt the need to spend €25 to find out which information they hand out, but AFAIK your home address is one of them


    EDIT

    your link comes up

    yeah there couple of different registers, Tommy Broughan latest Dail PQ related to the online one, Im not sure if this is what he is referring to. he was referring to both the online ahd offline/fee version
    the link gives me no problems if you go to
    http://www.transportforireland.ie/taxi/
    then on the TAXi drop down
    Check if a taxi driver is properly licensed

    but obviously there is some problem there,

    https://publicregister.nationaltransport.ie/ seems like an out of date page, referring as it does to the taxi regulator which was subsumed back into the NTA a few years ago


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,865 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    The Official MANUAL for Operating in the SPSV Industry page 8
    http://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/The-Official-MANUAL-for-Operating-in-the-SPSV-Industry-4th-Edition.pdf

    National SPSV registers (licence database)
    Under Section 38 of the Taxi Regulation Act, the National Transport Authority is required to
    maintain a national register of licences. There are currently three separate registers
    – a register of licensed SPSVs, a register of licensed SPSV drivers, and a register of licensed dispatch
    operators. The National Transport Authority makes these registers available to other agencies
    to facilitate law enforcement and regulatory compliance as may be required.
    As required by statute, a limited subset of licence record information is made available to the
    public. This is known as the ‘public register’ or ‘online register’, as it is available on the
    Authority’s website.

    The registers include the following details:
    The name and address of the licence holder;
    The date on which the licence was granted;
    Details of any suspension applying to a licence, including the period of the suspension, a
    reference to the reason for the suspension, and particulars of all removals of such suspensions; and
    Details of the revocation of a licence and the reasons for revocation.
    In relation to vehicle licences, the registers include the following details:

    The vehicle licence number;
    The registration number of the licensed vehicle;
    The category of SPSV to which the licence applies;
    The name and SPSV driver licence number of the driver currently linked with the vehicle;
    Details of any transfer of a taxi licence from one person to another; and
    Details of any changes of vehicle associated with the licence.

    In relation to SPSV driver licences, the registers include the following details:

    The SPSV driver licence number; and
    The county or counties for which the SPSV driver licence has been granted; and
    Vehicle licence number and registration number of the vehicle with which the driver is currently linked;

    In relation to dispatch operator licences, the registers include the following details:

    Business name;
    Opening hours;
    Contact details and booking methods;
    Number of vehicles in each SPSV category, owned and affiliated; and
    Number of drivers
    employed and affiliated.

    Public (online) register
    Some of the information in the registers must be made available to the general public from the National Transport Authority’s consumer-facing website,
    www.transportforireland.ie. While the Authority will not publish on its website the address details of licence holders or details of
    suspensions or revocations of licences or certain personal details about the licence holder, it is
    obliged under Section 38 of the Taxi Regulation Act to supply details (including address details)
    regarding any licence holder on receipt of a written request for a certificate of information. (Any
    such request must be accompanied by the relevant fee.)

    The abridged registers published on the Authority’s website include the following:

    SPSV driver licence information

    SPSV driver licence number, the holder’s name, licence
    areas, licence status and licence expiry date;

    Vehicle licence information

    vehicle licence number, licence type, vehicle registration
    number of the associated vehicle, the vehicle licence holder’s name, licence status and
    licence expiry date;

    Dispatch operator information

    dispatch operator licence number, company name, contact
    name, licence status and licence expiry date.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    you don't think business addresses should be available? even with a fee?

    If the business is being run from there, as in having planning permission from the local council, maybe. But as it is my family home and the adress is there purely for correspondence from the NTA then no, not really.
    As I've said if someone can give me a reason why someone would actually need my address rather than contacting the NTA or Garda with a complaint/query then maybe I'd agree in principle but I see no genuine reason why anyone needs my address to be available to them


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,865 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    If the business is being run from there, as in having planning permission from the local council, maybe. But as it is my family home and the adress is there purely for correspondence from the NTA then no, not really.
    As I've said if someone can give me a reason why someone would actually need my address rather than contacting the NTA or Garda with a complaint/query then maybe I'd agree in principle but I see no genuine reason why anyone needs my address to be available to them

    and I can't think of a reason why a business would exist without a listed address

    couldn't taxi drivers sent up a PO box as a business contact address.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    and I can't think of a reason why a business would exist without a listed address

    couldn't taxi drivers sent up a PO box as a business contact address.

    Don't know, I don't think you can use. P.O Boxes because if the Gardai wish to trace your plate number. It comes down to, is there a reason that members of the public have a genuine need to access a taxi drivers home address, I can't see any reason why they would


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,865 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Don't know, I don't think you can use. P.O Boxes because if the Gardai wish to trace your plate number. It comes down to, is there a reason that members of the public have a genuine need to access a taxi drivers home address, I can't see any reason why they would

    I think theres many genuine reasons for people to be able to get the address, for a fee, of a licensed business operator.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    I can think theres many genuine reasons for people to be able to get the address for a fee of a licensed business.

    Give me a genuine reason why you would be looking for a taxivdrivers home address?


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,499 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Give me a genuine reason why you would be looking for a taxivdrivers home address?

    because that is where they are likely to have their business registered to if they are a sole trader or even a small company.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    because that is where they are likely to have their business registered to if they are a sole trader or even a small company.

    Yeah I understand that, but as the business is carried out in (effectively) a mobile office, identified by a roof sign number, why would you be looking for their home address?
    If it's a problem with the taxi or the driver the only point of contact for a complaint is the NTA, if it's a legal problem, like a hit and run, then the only point of contact is the Gardai.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Actually this thread got me thinking, AFAIK you don't have to be registered with anyone but the tax office as self employed to be a sole trader, using form TR1.

    I don't believe the revenue will provide your name and address to anyone from their system for a fee of €25


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