"Next time ill hit you with the car"

PersonalJesus

Commute in this morning, my normal route takes me along a busy road with 4 lanes which is normally grid locked and you can filter along. this morning a bit clearer as im later in. Im in the second from left lane as its the right lane for me to be in coming out of the lights to join the shared usage bus lanes we have in Belfast.

Theres a number of sets of lights and on the approach to the final set (which are on red) a car behind me goes on the horn before taking me over sharply even though there is adequate room to take over in one of the other lanes. I have "taken the lane" as the road is notorious for people trying to pass to tight.

Annoyed after a separate incident yesterday which (has been reported to the police) i pulled up along side him and knocked on the window asking what the problem was. Im told im in the wrong lane, i should be in the left lane etc etc. I say no i should be in this lane as im joining the one ahead. He then said "Next time ill hit you with the car".

Im taken aback at this point, incandescent with rage. but just about hold it together enough to say how dangerous and serious a threat that is.

about 5 minutes later i catch up with him entering his work car park (on the same street as my own). I remonstrate with him again about how serious a threat that is and that i have his reg and now know where i he works for reporting it. He now nervously says "I was joking".


Im waiting till i calm down a bit, but how flippantly should i take the remark? I have reg and description of the car, driver and occupant. Dont want to unnecessarily make a complaint as it a relatively minor incident.

PersonalJesus

btw im no bike warrior but i cycle everyday along these roads.

i realize two separate incidents in as many days seems strange but theyve both been pretty serious.

Nonoperational

He obviously wasn't going to knock you down. He was angry the same way you were. Move on.

Doesn't matter that you have his reg or where he works etc as you have no proof he said anything to you.

Lusk Doyle

A threat of violence. A threat of pre-meditated violence. A talking to from the law might be just what is needed to nip that in the bud. You will be doing a service to all other road users by following through.

Raam

I would report him.

AstraMonti

Road rage is not something to be taken lightly, I would report him. Seeing the gardai at his door (hopefully) will be enough to make him think twice the next time.

Riskymove

Nonoperational wrote: »

He obviously wasn't going to knock you down. He was angry the same way you were. Move on.

I agree, people say things in the moment

PersonalJesus

Id imagine he'd be surprised the guards came up to Belfast! (but i get your point).

Im of the thinking i shouldnt really let it slide, its too serious a threat to make even to say it was a joke.

Raam

Riskymove wrote: »

I agree, people say things in the moment

Not an excuse when he is threatening someone's life with a deadly weapon.

buffalo

Riskymove wrote: »

I agree, people say things in the moment

People say things in the moment, but if they get away with saying those things, there's not a lot to stop them making the move to doing things in the moment - dangerous overtaking being one, nudging someone with the bumper another (and I've had that done to me). Tell the police exactly what happened, ask them to have a word. He needs to learn that his words (and his potential actions) have consequences.

Riskymove

Raam wrote: »

Not an excuse when he is threatening someone's life with a deadly weapon.

I'm not excusing it, I just dont think its worth reporting

only the OP was there and can try and judge the intent

having played sports for years I have lost count of the number of threaths and comments in flashpoints....I am still alive and unscathed

buffalo

Riskymove wrote: »

having played sports for years I have lost count of the number of threaths and comments in flashpoints....I am still alive and unscathed

Driving a car is not a sport... unless you're partaking in a sport with your car. And unless it's rally racing or F1 or whatever, then get your car off the pitch!

srsly though, they're two very different scenarios.

piston

I'd say report it. Threats to kill show the sort of mentality you are dealing with.

I had a similar threat last year when I stopped at a junction on a minor country road. I was about 3 feet from the left had side of the road with the intention of turning left but there were cars passing on the road I was joining so I had to wait. Some prat in a Citreon Berlingo pulled up alongside me and clipped my elbow with his passenger side door mirror as he did so. I don't normally do arguments with drivers but I felt I couldn't let that one go so banged on the window and asked him what he thought he was doing doing (politely).

He launched into a tirade of abuse with terrible language about road tax, holding him up, bikes shouldn't be allowed on the road which he pays for, blah, blah and then told me if I ever got in his way again he would deliberately knock me down. This wasn't some young chav but a seriously overweight man in his late 60s. It did shake me up, I did let it go but I vowed to myself if anything like that ever happens again, the Gardai will hear about it. Nobody has any right to threaten to run someone over.

droidus

Report it. At the very least, next time he pulls this crap there'll be a record.

And for those who say that he was 'just angry' or it was said in 'the heat of the moment' etc.. How many times have you threatened to run someone down over a minor traffic incident? Its not normal or acceptable behaviour.

PersonalJesus

Both the incident yesterday and today are with professional looking men in their 40s -50's. People who really should be a bit more responsible with their actions and words.

Riskymove

buffalo wrote: »

srsly though, they're two very different scenarios.

look, I didn't think I'd be in the majority here but its my view

the OP mentioned being "already angry" because of a seperate incident and "incandenscent with rage"....he confronted the driver on two separate occassions......should he be reported? I mean maybe next time he will threathen someone too or worse....would a talking to from the Police help?

I just think both need to calm down and move on

Deedsie

I'd report it. Embarrassment by being contacted by the PSNI might shake him into realizing how inappropriate he behaved.

PersonalJesus

Hmm now i didnt threaten to hit him with my bike, or attack him, and i didnt swear at him or act in a threatening way. I asked him what the problem was for driving careless, in the vague hope he might cop on in future. Running into him again was coincidence really. I didnt chase him down or anything.

I was only raged out after he said he would hit me next time.

Now because there was no real danger i would have let it slide if he hadnt of said what he did.

dermabrasion

There might be traffic video of you at the lights with this guy, but it is your word against his. The outcome that I would like to see would be the cops calling around and issuing a warning. He might think again about his behaviour.

doozerie

No question in my mind, report it. Sure, people say things in the heat of the moment, but a threat of violence is what it is and someone who is willing to threaten you for no reason does not deserve the benefit of the doubt. And given that his reason seems to be simply that you are in his way, this equates to no reason - road rage is not a justification in itself for anything.

People are often given too much leeway for their actions on the road, it seems. If that driver were to walk up to someone on the street and threaten to stamp on their head I reckon that few people would try to argue that it should simply be dismissed as a harmless incident. Let him explain to the police that he was "only joking" so that he can gauge how others react to his supposed sense of humour, I imagine it'd be very sobering for him.

And don't worry that you are getting someone into trouble, if he were to end up with the policy taking a case against him it will not be because of your reporting him, it will be because they have determined based on their own assessment (and presumably having first talked to him) that he poses a threat to others, and that is entirely down to him. His actions, his choice, his responsibility.

buffalo

Riskymove wrote: »

look, I didn't think I'd be in the majority here but its my view

the OP mentioned being "already angry" because of a seperate incident and "incandenscent with rage"....he confronted the driver on two separate occassions......should he be reported? I mean maybe next time he will threathen someone too or worse....would a talking to from the Police help?

I just think both need to calm down and move on

They were two separate drivers from my understanding. A guy on a bike vs a guy in a car is not the same as two lads rowing on a football pitch. It can be life or death. If you're in control of a car (and remembering that 186 people died on the Republic's roads in 2011, 48 in NI in 2012), you have a responsibility to behave safely and considerately. Likewise on a bike. But people on bikes didn't kill over 200 people last year on this island alone.

Riskymove

PersonalJesus wrote: »

Hmm now i didnt threaten to hit him with my bike, or attack him, and i didnt swear at him or act in a threatening way. .

I didn't say you did, my comments were hypotethical

you were the only one there (unless the driver is on boards!!), only you can decide if it was a flippant remark or not or if you actually felt a threat

unfortunately a lot of people can be idiots and say stupid things - fortunately most are not pyschos who deliberately knock people down

Riskymove

buffalo wrote: »

They were two separate drivers from my understanding.

nope, as he confirmed above

But people on bikes didn't kill over 200 people last year on this island alone.

and of course they were all the driver's fault...this is why I was sure I would be in the minority here

JimsAlterEgo

He could argue he was saying, he could easily hit you next time if you cycled carelessly, pointing something out rather than threatening. Saying that the police at his door might shake him up a bit.
Any witnesses?

PersonalJesus

Sorry to be clear.

There was an incident yesterday, which i reported, as it was clearly dangerous driving. It put my life at risk (the guy undertook me, on a single carriage way, going into the cycle lane i was joining to do so. this was also at rush hour so he was going into the back of a line of traffic). Its on cctv at junction and im going down to make a statement about it. Its pretty much unrelated to the original post, apart from the fact it probably led to me remonstrating with the driver to day in the first place.

The incident today was made up of one conversation when the threat was made, and another when i spoke with him again as he entered his car park.

There was a woman in the car with him. She attempted to say "he didnt say that" before he said "I was joking".

fasttalkerchat

You would also have to explain following him to work. He was in the wrong but it looks like you tried to get an argument twice after the incident.

Lusk Doyle

buffalo wrote: »

They were two separate drivers from my understanding. A guy on a bike vs a guy in a car is not the same as two lads rowing on a football pitch. It can be life or death. If you're in control of a car (and remembering that 186 people died on the Republic's roads in 2011, 48 in NI in 2012), you have a responsibility to behave safely and considerately. Likewise on a bike. But people on bikes didn't kill over 200 people last year on this island alone.

Your Google Search Merit Badge is on it's way to you.

Lusk Doyle

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

You would also have to explain following him to work. He was in the wrong but it looks like you tried to get an argument twice after the incident.

Read the OP. They work on the same street.

PersonalJesus

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

You would also have to explain following him to work. He was in the wrong but it looks like you tried to get an argument twice after the incident.

I didnt follow him to work. We work on the same street and i recognised the car.

buffalo

Riskymove wrote: »

and of course they were all the driver's fault...this is why I was sure I would be in the minority here

I didn't say they were the drivers' fault, just that people with cars have a responsibility to be safe, hence tests, licensing, mandatory insurance, penalty points, etc. Operating a vehicle and threatening to kill people with it is not okay, no matter what state of mind one is in.

Likewise someone threatening to shoot someone while holding a gun, or threatening to stab some while waving a knife around.

Riskymove

buffalo wrote: »

Likewise someone threatening to shoot someone while holding a gun, or threatening to stab some while waving a knife around.

jaysus, maybe you are right perhaps OP should have called the cops straight away to disarm him!! or maybe more? taser? live ammo?

let's stop hyping this up....if the OP feels it was a genuine threat then he should report it...end of!! suggesting what happened is the same as a man pulling a gun on the OP is ridiculous!

fasttalkerchat

PersonalJesus wrote: »

I didnt follow him to work. We work on the same street and i recognised the car.

Sorry forgot that part. I think you've done enough. If you hadnt confronted him twice already I would have reported it.

Hmmzis

Riskymove wrote: »

jaysus, maybe you are right perhaps OP should have called the cops straight away to disarm him!! or maybe more? taser? live ammo?

let's stop hyping this up....if the OP feels it was a genuine threat then he should report it...end of!! suggesting what happened is the same as a man pulling a gun on the OP is ridiculous!

Regarding potential consequences it is exactly the same. Shooting someone can kill, stabbing someone can kill and hitting someone with a car can kill.

doozerie

Riskymove wrote:

unfortunately a lot of people can be idiots and say stupid things - fortunately most are not pyschos who deliberately knock people down

It's also fortunate that a police force exists, once of whose roles is to make judgements calls as to whether someone is a "psycho" or not, so that the average untrained member of the public doesn't have to make this judgement call for themselves.

Better to involve the police before someone gets hurt rather than after - their role is not just to bust heads after the fact, it's also to act as a calming or mediating influence to reduce the likelihood of a serious incident occurring in the first place. In fact, it's far better to get the police involved early on, it's to the benefit of the aggressor too as it might encourage them to not do or say something in a similar situation in the future that'll land them in serious trouble.

buffalo

Riskymove wrote: »

jaysus, maybe you are right perhaps OP should have called the cops straight away to disarm him!! or maybe more? taser? live ammo?

let's stop hyping this up....if the OP feels it was a genuine threat then he should report it...end of!! suggesting what happened is the same as a man pulling a gun on the OP is ridiculous!

So you'd be fine someone holding a kitchen knife and threatening to stab you with it? Because that is essentially what happened here. A man threatened to use a potentially lethal object to kill or at least injure someone. Whether that person would ever follow through is another matter entirely, but I for one would feel threatened, and would report it to the police.

Stop trying to make out that it's okay for people to threaten to kill complete strangers. It's not. You may dismiss it personally, but that does not mean it's acceptable in a civil society.

Zed.

Report him...

Riskymove

buffalo wrote: »

So you'd be fine someone holding a kitchen knife and threatening to stab you with it?

but of course:rolleyes:

Because that is essentially what happened here

imo not it isn't!!

Stop trying to make out that it's okay for people to threaten to kill complete strangers. It's not. You may dismiss it personally, but that does not mean it's acceptable in a civil society.

I didn't say it was ok to threathen to kill someone or that it was acceptable...I simply dont think it was an actual genuine threat to kill the OP

However, I have also said that the OP is the only one there and should make the call if he actually felt threathened

Riskymove

doozerie wrote: »

It's also fortunate that a police force exists, once of whose roles is to make judgements calls as to whether someone is a "psycho" or not, so that the average untrained member of the public doesn't have to make this judgement call for themselves.

while I agree in principle, context is everything

I believe it is clear from the second conversation the OP had that the threat was not a real one or that the driver was a psycho!

but again...its for the OP to make a call on

petethedrummer

Classic bully. Felt all powerful in his car while you were vulnerable on your bike. You face up to him and he's a sh!te.

I'm not sure what I'd do but I wouldn't let this go.

PersonalJesus

Riskymove, I can see what you're saying, but still undecided whether its ever reasonable to make a threat like that, heat of the moment or not.

Im not expecting any conviction here, but a stern talking to and some embarrassment at the cops arriving at his house would be ideal.

buffalo

Riskymove wrote: »

I didn't say it was ok to threathen to kill someone or that it was acceptable...I simply dont think it was an actual genuine threat to kill the OP

So not genuine threats to kill people are okay? From complete strangers?

Well fine so, I'll just go threaten various people, and tell them I was kidding afterwards. Graaaand. :rolleyes:

droidus

Its not reasonable. Im as prone as anyone to losing my temper, but I've never threatened anyone with physical assault, let alone with a car.

Zyzz

You should have threatened to run him over with your bike..

RobFowl

Definitely report it. There's little chance of a successful prosecution but the Guards will almost certainly have a word with him and thats very very effective.

doozerie

Riskymove wrote:

while I agree in principle, context is everything

I believe it is clear from the second conversation the OP had that the threat was not a real one or that the driver was a psycho!

You say context is everything yet you casually dismiss the serious threat uttered by the driver during the first "conversation" in favour of what sounds like a half-arsed attempt to abdicate all responsibility for having uttered it during the second conversation. I'm completely unconvinced that the threat was not a real one based on that.

I think the only thing that is clear from that second conversation is that the driver realised that he might be held accountable for his unacceptable actions, yet it seems that he didn't actually apologise, instead he just tried to distance himself from what he said. To me that's not the action of a mature adult who accepts that they've done something stupid and will act differently the next time round, it's more like the action of someone who doesn't really believe they did something wrong but at the same time don't want to be held accountable for it by others. A visit by the police would be a strong reminder to him that you are indeed responsible for your actions.

arnelv

report him to the guards and make a statement, this will be reviewed by their supervisor and an assault charge can be filed in your behalf. AM just waiting for a court hearing regarding a case of boy racers who assaulted me last year with a water gun fired directly into my eye while i was cycling, turn back shouted and curse me. They only drove away when i picked up a big rock ready to smash their windshield. Went to the station and was told that i was the 3rd or 4th complainant regarding the same car and boy racer who assaulted them the same day, I don't know if they were on drugs or drunk...Guards went to their house and readily admitted their misdemeanor. Will post after the court hearing.

tonycon28

I would let it go. If he had swerved at you or had instigated the conversation then I would report him. However as you started the conversation and what he said was just in the heat of the moment I would let it go.

I think the fact that you cornered him at his workplace will make him think twice in the future of saying or doing anything aggressive.

hardCopy

Riskymove wrote: »

let's stop hyping this up....if the OP feels it was a genuine threat then he should report it...end of!! suggesting what happened is the same as a man pulling a gun on the OP is ridiculous!

You've nicely highlighted the fact that people often don't realise how dangerous their own cars are, and how vulnerable cyclists are to their behaviour.

Report it OP, although, if you have just reported an incident earlier in the week this may be taken less seriously than it should.

Riskymove

hardCopy wrote: »

You've nicely highlighted the fact that people often don't realise how dangerous their own cars are, and how vulnerable cyclists are to their behaviour.

driving a car in a dangerous manner is wrong...if the OP wants to report that then he should. The question is not about his driving behaviour but his threat

imo....saying something while sitting in a stationary car is not the same as waving a gun or knife at someone

you casually dismiss the serious threat uttered by the driver during the first "conversation" in favour of what sounds like a half-arsed attempt to abdicate all responsibility for having uttered it during the second conversation

I have said now a number of times that threats are wrong and not acceptable.

In this instance, given the second conversation, the man backed away form the statement for whatever reason...perhaps he just realised what he said in anger was stupid and wrong.

imo only the OP can make this decision, none of us were there

buffalo wrote:

So not genuine threats to kill people are okay? From complete strangers?

Well fine so, I'll just go threaten various people, and tell them I was kidding afterwards. Graaaand.

again...of course, I mean obviously thats what I said :rolleyes:

sure I love a bit of threatening strangers, who doesn't?:

HivemindXX

Riskymove wrote: »

again...of course, I mean obviously thats what I said :rolleyes:

I'm not sure you understand the use of that icon. You have clearly stated you think it is ok to threaten someone with a deadly weapon. What else is ok with you 'in the heat of the moment'? Swerving in to someone? Pulling in front of them and slamming on the brakes? Speeding past way too close?

Some people seem to have a very irresponsible attitude towards their driving. I don't know, perhaps they don't believe they can seriously hurt someone when they try to save 30 seconds by blowing through a red light or perhaps they don't care since they think all the responsibility should lie with the other party. Perhaps they are just scumbags. Whatever the reason I think we would be in a better situation if everyone treated controlling a large mass of fast moving metal with the respect it deserves. However I doubt that will ever happen since your attitude, no matter how despicable, is endemic.

Riskymove

You have clearly stated you think it is ok to threaten someone with a deadly weapon.

I have?

riskymove wrote:

I'm not excusing it, I just dont think its worth reporting

only the OP was there and can try and judge the intent

riskymove wrote:

you were the only one there (unless the driver is on boards!!), only you can decide if it was a flippant remark or not or if you actually felt a threat

riskymove wrote:

if the OP feels it was a genuine threat then he should report it...end of!!

riskymove wrote:

I have also said that the OP is the only one there and should make the call if he actually felt threathened

riskymove wrote:

I have said now a number of times that threats are wrong and not acceptable