How reliable is your car? - Irish Times Article

NobodyImportant

Audi sitting 2nd from bottom in this reliability table:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/motors/2013/0227/1224330562396.html

The germans did not fair well.

Idbatterim

The german cars are more complex and hence have more to go wrong with them. These insane low emmision with high mpg diesels etc dont come without a price... Either way Id happily take the slightly higher chance of breaking down once in a blue moon over the knowledge that I was driving a **** box day in day out!

NobodyImportant

Good point.

The Germans are winning the race in terms of Co2, but its costing them in reliability. Long term the Japanese will benefit from a slightly more careful pace?

pajo1981

NobodyImportant wrote: »

Good point.

The Germans are winning the race in terms of Co2, but its costing them in reliability. Long term the Japanese will benefit from a slightly more careful pace?

Well considering new hondas aren't selling despite their admittedly wide reliability margin, I'm not so sure.

Anan1

NobodyImportant wrote: »

The Germans are winning the race in terms of Co2, but its costing them in reliability. Long term the Japanese will benefit from a slightly more careful pace?

Japanese cars have been more reliable than their German equivalents for decades, certainly from before CO2 emmissions were even measured.

Ron Burgundy II

Good read, people do get suckered into believing certain types of cars are extremely reliable when in reality they can be anything but.

On another point read an article on Car Mechanics this months issue and a dealer was informing the readers of troubles he had with some Toyota D-4D engines and the costs associated with the repairs, lucky for him he had bought an additional warranty.

Also gave the top ten cars sold in the UK for last year, a big name brand didn't make the top ten.

thecomedian

I was just wondering do they take into account the amount of miles done on the car?

Ardennes1944

7th for FIAT:D!

run_Forrest_run

the Germans are being found out, how long have they been flogging the whole 'German Engineering' marketing nonsense now?
I work for a German industrial automation company and by god it's shocking to see the level of inefficiency that goes on.

NobodyImportant

pajo1981 wrote: »

Well considering new hondas aren't selling despite their admittedly wide reliability margin, I'm not so sure.

It'll take a while for it to filter through. Like years. People buying German cars like VW over Japanese cars because they are slightly cheaper to tax, then in five years going back Japanese because they were less reliable than what they were used to.

pajo1981

NobodyImportant wrote: »

People buying German cars like VW over Japanese cars because they are slightly cheaper to tax

Or maybe it's because they like them better?

Tea 1000

pajo1981 wrote: »

Or maybe it's because they like them better?

And they probably like them better because the Germans are masters at making the cabin feel like a premium product and taking shortcuts elsewhere in the hidden but important components!!

NobodyImportant

Not necessarily. VW Finance has made a huge difference. People who cant get finance on a car from Honda/Toyota/Whatever, go down the road and VW welcome them with open, german funded arms. Plenty of that going on. Bigger marketing budgets too.

That, plus the Co2 race has helped them.

Golfs etc are no more premium compared to Japanese than they used to be yet VW have gained huge market share.

Idbatterim

as clarkson said before about lexus, they could make a far better car at half the price and people still wouldnt be interested in them!

veetwin

NobodyImportant wrote: »

Not necessarily. VW Finance has made a huge difference. People who cant get finance on a car from Honda/Toyota/Whatever, go down the road and VW welcome them with open, german funded arms. Plenty of that going on. Bigger marketing budgets too.

That, plus the Co2 race has helped them.

Golfs etc are no more premium compared to Japanese than they used to be yet VW have gained huge market share.

Yes but like it or not a Golf, premium or not, is a more desirable car in pretty much every respect to an Auris or any equivalent Asian car.

Chuck Stone

veetwin wrote: »

Yes but like it or not a Golf, premium or not, is a more desirable car in pretty much every respect to an Auris or any equivalent Asian car.

I'd take a Mazda 3 or Honda Civic over a Golf every time.

Idbatterim

LOL at vw being premium, the only premium mainstream brands are bmw, audi, merc and lexus.

colm_mcm

I don't think its fair to mock mg rover as they did in that article given that all the cars in the survey would be over 8 years old and there isn't exactly a dealer network anymore

MugMugs

colm_mcm wrote: »

I don't think its fair to mock mg rover as they did in that article given that all the cars in the survey would be over 8 years old and there isn't exactly a dealer network anymore

No but it's quite apt to have them there given their history imho. Gives me a warm fuzzy feeling anyway.

Glad to see the Japs are hanging on to their reps.

There's a nice bit of irony between the top of the bottom and top of the top too really!

Seweryn

Can't see Alfa Romeo listed.

ba_barabus

MugMugs wrote: »

No but it's quite apt to have them there given their history imho.

How is it apt to have a company there that has no dealer network and hasn't produced a new car since 2005?

In that case should they include include Daewoo, RHD Lancias, TaTas, Reliants, Talbots, Yugos, Datsuns, Austins, dahatsiu and other brands that are either gone or no longer have a dealer network?

ShadowHearth

As my mechanic/friend says: " if not the Audi, I would be starving".
I have seen so many times his yard filled with all sort of age Audi stuff. The most shocking part was always price tag on invoice for parts.

It's not that I am bashing Germans, every manufacturer had/has a shietwagon, but Germans have the best marketing in the world.
Maybe German cars are not that much worse, but damn, they can make their cars have a stigma of reliability and awesomeness, when in reality there is fed all of it.


*i still would take MMs Beemer lololol.

padma

pajo1981 wrote: »

Well considering new hondas aren't selling despite their admittedly wide reliability margin, I'm not so sure.

One of the reasons for this comes down to prices, look at the entry level price of a jazz, their at 16500.

Sure how can you compete with Volkswagen up the road when the salesman tells you sure, here look you can get yourself a new polo or go up to Honda and dish out an extra 2 and a half grand for a Jazz, whereas, here look, get yourself your tax, insurance and still have a grand in your pocket for petrol or a holiday in June.

And you walk out the door with a brand new car.

NIMAN

Ron Burgundy II wrote: »

Good read, people do get suckered into believing certain types of cars are extremely reliable when in reality they can be anything but.

On another point read an article on Car Mechanics this months issue and a dealer was informing the readers of troubles he had with some Toyota D-4D engines and the costs associated with the repairs, lucky for him he had bought an additional warranty.

Also gave the top ten cars sold in the UK for last year, a big name brand didn't make the top ten.

Is it a secret? Can you not tell us who the big name is?

MugMugs

ba_barabus wrote: »

How is it apt to have a company there that has no dealer network and hasn't produced a new car since 2005?

In that case should they include include Daewoo, RHD Lancias, TaTas, Reliants, Talbots, Yugos, Datsuns, Austins, dahatsiu and other brands that are either gone or no longer have a dealer network?

My experience with Rover when they were being made was that they were buckets of crap. I didn't find them a nice car to drive nor did I rate them in reliability or indeed looks. The English look just never did it for me. The best thing to happen to rover besides the Honda alliance (as bad as that was for Honda) was their demise........ In my opinion.....

kyote00

Fiat more reliable than Audi, VW and BMW.

Wonder where Skoda is ? Probably broke the spreadsheet, divide by zero error :P

Ardennes1944 wrote: »

7th for FIAT:D!

kyote00

From the IT article ---- McLure Fisher :eek: (sounds like it came from Viz)

“Cars have become increasingly complex, with lots of gadgetry on board, especially on executive models, where buyers expect more and more bang for their buck. Owners of these cars pay over the odds for the premium badge, but our study shows they could also be paying over the odds just to keep the car on the road,” said McLure Fisher.

Alfa Quadrifoglio

Very interesting survey but remember its engines only. The performance of German cars is not a surprise Polo's, Golfs, BMW 3 series do give engine trouble. FIAT's performance in the top 10 (7th) does not surprise me as they have always built decent engines and the Panda and 500 are very good cars. Honda's performance is outstanding just 1 in 344 engine failures also no surprise the vtec is a superb design.

road_high

Surprised to see Land Rover rank highly enough, they generally scraped the bottom of most of these surveys.

BigEejit

That Audi spokesman saying that 0.3% of the cars that people bring in have been engine failures may be true. Would you bring a car that is out of warranty into a Audi main dealer to put a new engine into it? I fecking wouldnt.

copacetic

Love actual factual articles and data like this. I like Audi but have to laugh at them saying the stats are meaningless as they are for UK! As if they fit different engines in for Ireland!

Access to stats like this has been very difficult until last few years for the consumer and whatever about the manufacturers writing them off if will it pressure on them. If they come low in these statistics AND offer short 2/3 year warranties then they can't claim that the stats aren't realistic. Why won't they warranty their engines then?

Great results for Merc and Volvo.

veetwin

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I'd take a Mazda 3 or Honda Civic over a Golf every time.

That maybe so but you would be in the minority. I can't remember the last new or newish 3 or civic I've seen. The car buying public rightly or wrongly buy golfs over asian cars. Personally I would have a Golf also. The other two look dated and ordinary imho. The new golf is a far fresher design.

MugMugs

veetwin wrote: »

That maybe so but you would be in the minority. I can't remember the last new or newish 3 or civic I've seen. The car buying public rightly or wrongly buy golfs over asian cars. Personally I would have a Golf also. The other two look dated and ordinary imho. The new golf is a far fresher design.

I can't help but imagine a bail of hay hanging out the back every time I see a golf.

The Pontiac

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I'd take a Mazda 3 or Honda Civic over a Golf every time.

The Golf has better presence and imagine though.

MuppetCheck

This is an aftermarket warranty company I believe? Surely this is distorted to some extent by manufacturer warranties and used car warranties through manufacturers schemes (or lack there of) meaning results can distorted?

Wouldn't warranty direct be akin to mapfre and usually purchased by an owner or a non franchised seller?

Bebo stunnah

Glad to see that what I've been hearing/reading has finally been published for the rest of the public to see!

veetwin wrote: »

That maybe so but you would be in the minority. I can't remember the last new or newish 3 or civic I've seen. The car buying public rightly or wrongly buy golfs over asian cars. Personally I would have a Golf also. The other two look dated and ordinary imho. The new golf is a far fresher design.

I must be in the minority as well so. I think the new Mazda 3 look great! Much better that the ones pre 08/09 (which I thought looked simply awful) And you can use the comparison between those 2 if you think they look dated... Sure the VW Golf hasn't changed in the past 8 years, except to alter the shape of the headlights slightly every couple of years. I could think of a few asian cars that look much nicer such as the Mazda 3, Hyundai Veloster or the new i30/40.

But to be fair, before i bought my current car (Rx8) I had my eyes on VWs and Audi too, until I realised that EVERYONE has one...

Chris_Heilong

No surprise there for me in the bottom list with the exception of Mitsubishi.

road_high

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

No surprise there for me in the bottom list with the exception of Mitsubishi.

Yea me too, what happenned there? Thought the Colt, Lancer and Pajero were pretty solid all round.

Chris_Heilong

veetwin wrote: »

That maybe so but you would be in the minority. I can't remember the last new or newish 3 or civic I've seen. The car buying public rightly or wrongly buy golfs over asian cars. Personally I would have a Golf also. The other two look dated and ordinary imho. The new golf is a far fresher design.

Really, I think Honda with its last generation Civic really pushed the design of alot of manufacturers most recent offerings, how can you call this ordinary?

veetwin

Bebo stunnah wrote: »

I could think of a few asian cars that look much nicer such as the Mazda 3, Hyundai Veloster or the new i30/40.

But to be fair, before i bought my current car (Rx8) I had my eyes on VWs and Audi too, until I realised that EVERYONE has one...

Have to disagree on the 3 which I don't think is a great design. The Veloster is a different car and probably should be compared to the Sirocco rather than the Golf (I'd have the Sirocco btw) The i30 is much cheaper than the Golf and only Hyundai fanbois would say it's better than a Golf. The i40 is a nice car but who is going to buy a new one and not worry about the resale value in 3 years!

Kudos on the RX8 btw. Only true petrolheads drive em:cool:

veetwin

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Really, I think Honda with its last generation Civic really pushed the design of alot of manufacturers most recent offerings, how can you call this ordinary?

It was fresh 6 years ago. Now not so much. The game has moved on.

shinkansen

Idbatterim wrote: »

The german cars are more complex and hence have more to go wrong with them. These insane low emmision with high mpg diesels etc dont come without a price... Either way Id happily take the slightly higher chance of breaking down once in a blue moon over the knowledge that I was driving a **** box day in day out!

newbie here..

don't really agree with this, have a 2.4 exec accord, 9 years old never had a critical fail. regular services and a clutch all that's been done.

and its hardly a $hit box as it has more toys than many cars of today let alone 9 years ago.

Honda are good because they are an Engineering company, all the big wigs and CEOs have an Engineering background, they also have meticulous R&D and kanban principles across all their products, from Honda NSXs down to lawnmowers.

with regular services these engines keep going on and on and on...

Syllabus

Idbatterim wrote: »

The german cars are more complex and hence have more to go wrong with them. These insane low emmision with high mpg diesels etc dont come without a price... Either way Id happily take the slightly higher chance of breaking down once in a blue moon over the knowledge that I was driving a **** box day in day out!

yes, because arriving 1-6hrs late for your sisters wedding is worth owing a german junker:rolleyes:

i personally would take the reliable car over an overenginered status symbol money pit day in day out


imo

Syllabus

veetwin wrote: »

Yes but like it or not a Golf, premium or not, is a more desirable car in pretty much every respect to an Auris or any equivalent Asian car.

id take a Kia ProCee'd or an i30 over a Golf every single time


depends on who u ask



imo

veetwin

Syllabus wrote: »

id take a Kia ProCee'd or an i30 over a Golf every single time

Interesting. Why? The Kia and Hyundai are much cheaper than the Golf but I'm struggling to see where they beat the Golf other than on price. Are you suggesting that if money were no object that the Golf is still the inferior product?

copacetic

veetwin wrote: »

Interesting. Why? The Kia and Hyundai are much cheaper than the Golf but I'm struggling to see where they beat the Golf other than on price. Are you suggesting that if money were no object that the Golf is still the inferior product?

Warranty? Reliability?

Chris_Heilong

veetwin wrote: »

It was fresh 6 years ago. Now not so much. The game has moved on.

lol, if you think thats true then you have to accept that the VW golf has been stuck in a time tunnel since the early 1990's.



That Civic design is still light years a head of the most recent golf which really needs a total redesign to take away its dated heritage.

veetwin

copacetic wrote: »

Warranty? Reliability?

Warranty on VW is 3 years. I'm guessing most VW buyers will trade in after the 3 years. Reliability does not hugely matter if under warranty. Used VWs still command a premium so that is probably more important than reliability anyway.

BigEejit

veetwin wrote: »

Are you suggesting that if money were no object that the Golf is still the inferior product?

Ah now, moving the goalposts. You'd struggle to find someone for whom money was no object choosing between the three of them.

The Kia and Hyundai have better warranties and I believe they are pretty reliable (more reliable than a golf? I have no idea). They do this while being far cheaper than an equivalent volkswagen. All three reasons (among others no doubt) make them superior in many peoples minds. The only place for badge snobbery when you have a VW on the front of your car is if you were driving a phaeton.

colm_mcm

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

lol, if you think thats true then you have to accept that the VW golf has been stuck in a time tunnel since the early 1990's.



That Civic design is still light years a head of the most recent golf which really needs a total redesign to take away its dated heritage.

The heritage and familiarity is part of the appeal for a lot of buyers.

While the civic has clever packaging and is futuristic this doesn't appeal to everyone. The newest civic hasn't improved things IMO

veetwin

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

lol, if you think thats true then you have to accept that the VW golf has been stuck in a time tunnel since the early 1990's.

Again that may be true but the car buying public disagrees with you. The golf probably outsells the civic 10 to 1 worldwide.