Actual wrestling?

Melion

I was an avid wrestling watcher up until about 2005/6. I watched everything i possibly could get my hands on, ordered videos and DVDs online to fill in time when there was none on TV. Spent hours online reading about wrestlers, dirt sheets, e-feds, watching shoot interviews. That all stopped when Cena started getting pushed to the moon and sports entertainment took over and wrestling became a dirty word(Paul E put it best)

Lately ive been dipping in and out again, watched the Rumble, a few shows and then Elimination Chamber. I wanted to get interested in time for Mania so i sat down today and watched Raw from Monday night. When did they stop having WRESTLING on their show? Im all for Sports Entertainment but its gone a bit overboard now. There was trailers ON THE SHOW for 3/4 movies, rolling twitter updates, ridiculous backstage segments, DONALD F'ING TRUMP in the Hall of Fame!!!!

How do people watch this every week? I miss the days of ECW,WCW and WWF all actually competing and oddly enough, having WRESTLING on their shows.

Quick edit about something id forgot: My favourite independent wrestler from a few years ago with a bag on his head in a comedy tag team with Kane

krudler

Raw is 3hrs now so there's tons of filler

jaykhunter

We do get longer matches now with 3 hours. Did you miss the main event? Some wrestling going on there!

But yeah, tons of filler. It's worth noting that characters, storylines and promos sell PPVs (where you get your wrestling), so it's the least important part of the weekly show.

Melion

jaykhunter wrote: »

We do get longer matches now with 3 hours. Did you miss the main event? Some wrestling going on there!

But yeah, tons of filler. It's worth noting that characters, storylines and promos sell PPVs (where you get your wrestling), so it's the least important part of the weekly show.

Longer matches? Miz and Swagger went for 5-6 minutes followed by advertising some chicken. The King eating fried chicken a few months after a heart attack?????

ShagNastii

Think when I hear cries for wrestling from the IWC it is a bit of a moot point. Although there is no doubt a lot of overkill re:promos, skits and non-wrestling related material, but there still is decent wrestling in the WWE.

"Sports Entertainment" has been around a lot longer than many will credit. There has been "sport entertainmenty" stuff since the late 80s.

My suggestion is stick to PPVs, Superstars, NXT, Main Event or even just stay with the Indies.

Melion

ShagNastii wrote: »

Think when I hear cries for wrestling from the IWC it is a bit of a moot point. Although there are no doubt a lot of overkill re:promos, skits and non-wrestling related material, but there still is decent wrestling in the WWE.

Where? A genuine question here.

There is nobody in the company at the minute who will be given a chance to wrestle a proper iron man match. Ive accepted that guys i like from the independent circuit will never get a decent shot in the WWE(Bar Punk and Danielson). They had Paul London and Spanky a few years ago, 2 wrestlers who genuinely excited me during a match and did nothing with them, fed them to monsters and released them.

IF Taker comes back for Mania that leaves 3 "Main events", 6 wrestlers, 4 of them are part time! Thats not right and i think it would just píss off a lot of guys backstage.

jaykhunter

Melion wrote: »

ShagNastii wrote: »

but there still is decent wrestling in the WWE.

Where? A genuine question here.

I'll repeat it, did you miss the main event? Or does that not count as decent?

Melion

jaykhunter wrote: »

I'll repeat it, did you miss the main event? Or does that not count as decent?

I think the crowd had a lot to do with that match, them and Punk obviously.

Loughc

Melion wrote: »

I think the crowd had a lot to do with that match, them and Punk obviously.

I think it was the actual wrestling that had a lot to do with it as well tho!

ShagNastii

Melion wrote: »

Where? A genuine question here.

They had Paul London and Spanky a few years ago, 2 wrestlers who genuinely excited me during a match and did nothing with them, fed them to monsters and released them

I could easily argue that all they did with London and Spank was let them wrestle. Alright we had that boll*cks moment with Triple H, but pretty much every moment I can recollect about the team is putting on stellar long matches with others.

D&D, MNM and that PPV stealing ladder match.

Melion

ShagNastii wrote: »

I could easily argue that all they did with London and Spank was let them wrestle. Alright we had that boll*cks moment with Triple H, but pretty much every moment I can recollect about the team is putting on stellar long matches with others.

D&D, MNM and that PPV stealing ladder match.

As a tag team yes, but what about as singles?

Melion

lockie1983 wrote: »

I think it was the actual wrestling that had a lot to do with it as well tho!

I strongly disagree, a lot of near falls, one of the worst hurricanranas ive ever seen and poorly executed submission moves doesnt make a good match. Dont even get me started on the 5 knuckle shuffle and the attitude adjustment.

Loughc

I thought the near falls added to the excitement of the match and the piledriver by Punk was a thing of beauty.

I'm not Cena fan but in no way did Punk carry Cena in that match, they have great chemistry and that was a great RAW main event. Easily one of (if not) matches of the year so far!

jaykhunter

Melion wrote: »

I strongly disagree, a lot of near falls, one of the worst hurricanranas ive ever seen and poorly executed submission moves doesnt make a good match. Dont even get me started on the 5 knuckle shuffle and the attitude adjustment.

WOW. If that's how easily you dismiss WWE's main event this week, which even the vast majority of the IWC has gushingly praised, you shouldn't be watching mainstream wrestling.

rossie1977

we get one of the best ever tv matches in the history of raw on monday night and this thread appears

Angron

While it may not seem like many indie wrestlers have a shot in the WWE, they seem far more willing to push people who started off in the Indie circuit recently. While Punk and Bryan are two obvious examples, they also have Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins in the Shield who have been a big part of Raw the last few months, and there are several on NXT, such as Chris Hero/Kassius Ohno, Pac, and El Generico. Granted this doesn’t guarantee success for them, but they are far more likely to be successful now than a few years ago, thanks to the work of people like Punk and Bryan.

Melion

rossie1977 wrote: »

we get one of the best ever tv matches in the history of raw on monday night and this thread appears

Best ever?? How long have you been watching WWF/E?

When the finish to the match is as predictable as my morning bowel movement it takes away a lot from the match. Did anyone think Punk was winning on Monday night?

Ando's Saggy Bottom

Melion wrote: »

I was an avid wrestling watcher up until about 2005/6. I watched everything i possibly could get my hands on, ordered videos and DVDs online to fill in time when there was none on TV. Spent hours online reading about wrestlers, dirt sheets, e-feds, watching shoot interviews. That all stopped when Cena started getting pushed to the moon and sports entertainment took over and wrestling became a dirty word(Paul E put it best)

Lately ive been dipping in and out again, watched the Rumble, a few shows and then Elimination Chamber. I wanted to get interested in time for Mania so i sat down today and watched Raw from Monday night. When did they stop having WRESTLING on their show? Im all for Sports Entertainment but its gone a bit overboard now. There was trailers ON THE SHOW for 3/4 movies, rolling twitter updates, ridiculous backstage segments, DONALD F'ING TRUMP in the Hall of Fame!!!!

How do people watch this every week? I miss the days of ECW,WCW and WWF all actually competing and oddly enough, having WRESTLING on their shows.

Quick edit about something id forgot: My favourite independent wrestler from a few years ago with a bag on his head in a comedy tag team with Kane

Ermmm, there has never been a better time to be a WWE fan if you're into watching actual wrestling......

I think you might be harking back to bygone eras with rose tinted glasses because the in ring product down the card is vastly superior nowadays than it was in the Attitude Era for example, and doubly so compared to the Rock n' Roll Wrestling days of the 80's.

Whining for whining's sake methinks.

Melion

Pete Campbell wrote: »

Ermmm, there has never been a better time to be a WWE fan if you're into watching actual wrestling......

I think you might be harking back to bygone eras with rose tinted glasses because the in ring product down the card is vastly superior nowadays than it was in the Attitude Era for example, and doubly so compared to the Rock n' Roll Wrestling days of the 80's.

Whining for whining's sake methinks.

There may be better technical wrestlers than there were in the 80's but when they are given 3-4 minutes for a match so a movie and a chicken joint can be pushed it takes away from them a bit dont you think?

rossie1977

Melion wrote: »

Best ever?? How long have you been watching WWF/E?

i said one of the best ever not best ever, dave meltzer said 4 and half snowflakes and best raw match since cena/hbk back in april 2007 (which i agree with)

who the hell cares if it was predictable, does the fact that undertaker always wins at mania mean you cannot claim any of this matches at that event were great??

btw been watching wwe since 1986, pro wrestling since 1982

Ando's Saggy Bottom

Melion wrote: »

There may be better technical wrestlers than there were in the 80's but when they are given 3-4 minutes for a match so a movie and a chicken joint can be pushed it takes away from them a bit dont you think?

They aren't better technical wrestlers than there were in the 80's though are they? In the 80's you had the likes of Steamboat, Dynamite, Macho Man, Bret, Shawn etc etc on the undercard but all you'd ever get to see of them on Tv at best would be 3-4 minute squashes against wimpies. You're moaning about the finish to Monday's RAW main event (the best TV match I can remember in years) but often even PPV matches in the 80's would end in sh*tty DQ's in order to continue feuds. These days you get a match worthy of closing Wrestlmania free on a Monday night? Not sure how you can't see the difference. And during the Attitude era things were very much storyline driver and at the time you'd hear complaints from smarks about how the likes of Benoiut and Eddy, internet darlings only get a few minutes per week to do their stuff. At best all they ever got was a token World Title reign. These days the internet darling gets to be champ for 365+ days!

You have the likes of NXT, Superstars, and Smackdown as well as RAW amd somewhere amongst those many hours of Tv every week you get something that will satiate your desire for good technical wrestling. You have most of the main players ina golden era of indy wrestling now featuring prominently on TV or having runs as world champ.

You are making no sense at all tbh.

GTR63

Denny M wrote: »

While it may not seem like many indie wrestlers have a shot in the WWE, they seem far more willing to push people who started off in the Indie circuit recently. While Punk and Bryan are two obvious examples, they also have Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins in the Shield who have been a big part of Raw the last few months, and there are several on NXT, such as Chris Hero/Kassius Ohno, Pac, and El Generico. Granted this doesn’t guarantee success for them, but they are far more likely to be successful now than a few years ago, thanks to the work of people like Punk and Bryan.

I do wonder if they'd push them as strong if they were still developing their own talents like they did with Batista, Lesnar, Orton and Cena what have they brought through lately Sheamus, er Ryback and erm Biggie Langston.

Melion

Lads, if you are all happy with the product then dont let me ruin it for you. Was just stating an opinion, i wont bother from now on and let ye all enjoy Cena - Rock :rolleyes:

Melion

rossie1977 wrote: »

i said one of the best ever not best ever, dave meltzer said 4 and half snowflakes and best raw match since cena/hbk back in april 2007 (which i agree with)

who the hell cares if it was predictable, does the fact that undertaker always wins at mania mean you cannot claim any of this matches at that event were great??

btw been watching wwe since 1986, pro wrestling since 1982

If Dave Meltzer said the sky was green and grass was blue then the majority of "fans" would go outside to check just to make sure. Id rather make up my own mind instead of just going with what someone else says.

A Primal Nut

Bear in mind people were moaning about the lack of wrestling during the Attitude Era and too much time dedicated to promos. Actually it goes back as far back as the 80's when Hulk Hogan was on top. Now that I remember; it was mostly rubbish squash matches against local jobbers in the late 80's/early 90's...ugh! How is that better than what you have now? I'm not saying that I'm happy with the show as a whole, but its certainly a lot better than 80's / early 90's...Hulk Hogan had the belt for 4 years which must have got really boring. In wresting terms its as good as it's ever been apart from a few years in the late 90's.

There is 8 hours of weekly shows in WWE + PPVs & NXT so you can easily just download them; skip the storyline parts and watch the matches. Alternatively just watch the PPVs; they are still good and mostly full of matches rather than storylines; Raw, etc is mostly just a buildup to those anyway.

Melion

I wouldn't say the ending was predictable, I genuinely thought they were going to count Cena out and the way Punk was getting pummeled for large parts of the action generally leads to the tables turning. The indys/New Japan are still going. Watch them if you're not happy with the mainstream.

Melion wrote: »

Lads, if you are all happy with the product then dont let me ruin it for you. Was just stating an opinion, i wont bother from now on and let ye all enjoy Cena - Rock :rolleyes:

I'm sure I will.

Melion

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Bear in mind people were moaning about the lack of wrestling during the Attitude Era and too much time dedicated to storylines. In fact it probably goes as far back as the 80's when Hulk Hogan was on top.

There is 8 hours of weekly shows in WWEs + PPVs & NXT so you can easily just download them; skip the storyline parts and watch the matches. Alternatively just watch the PPVs; they are still good and mostly full of matches rather than storylines; Raw, etc is mostly just a buildup to those anyway.

I like having a story behind the matches, i wasnt giving out about matches being built up, obviously its essential.

Advertising movies on the show instead of during the 400 commercial breaks?
Tout?
Having the King stuff his face with chicken?
Rolling Twitter feeds?

Are any of those necessary?

ShagNastii

Ando's Saggy Bottom

Melion wrote: »

Lads, if you are all happy with the product then dont let me ruin it for you. Was just stating an opinion, i wont bother from now on and let ye all enjoy Cena - Rock :rolleyes:

Most people would find plenty to criticie the current product about on here I reckon - especially Rock/Cena. Its just that the particular things you're bitching about aren't even true and can be easily be disproved by merely looking at the most recent episode of WWE TV.

No need for the toys from pram response tbh.

GTR63

Wait!
When did Lawler eat chicken?
Man he must of given up on the Pizza so....pity they had so much potential.

Angron

The ads are really an American thing to be fair. They always go overboard with the ads, their ad breaks for all shows are more frequent than here, so that's not a problem specific to WWE.

I agree with the tout and twitter points though, I hate when they start harping on about how something is trending worldwide and the like.

Melion

Pete Campbell wrote: »

Most people would find plenty to criticie the current product about on here I reckon - especially Rock/Cena. Its just that the particular things you're bitching about aren't even true and can be easily be disproved by merely looking at the most recent episode of WWE TV.

No need for the toys from pram response tbh.

Ok well ill go with the general opinion here. Punk - Cena the other night was one of the greatest matches in the history of wrestling, better than anything Benoit, HBK, Flair, Angle or Eddie could have managed.

Now thats out of the way, when was the last time there was a GREAT match on Raw?

Melion

Denny M wrote: »

The ads are really an American thing to be fair. They always go overboard with the ads, their ad breaks for all shows are more frequent than here, so that's not a problem specific to WWE.

I agree with the tout and twitter points though, I hate when they start harping on about how something is trending worldwide and the like.

It wasnt the ad breaks i was giving out about. I understand that american audiences get at least 20 an hour(or so it seems) but why not advertise the movies during those breaks instead of having them on Raw? Thats the point i was making.

Angron

Ah, fair enough so. I don't really get to watch the non-PPV shows live, so I don't really get the ad breaks, product placements and the like. Yay for not having sky I guess :P

rossie1977

Liam O wrote: »

I wouldn't say the ending was predictable.

for the vast majority of the millions watching it wasn't predictable no, cena came into that match with punk having failed to beat punk in every big match between the two this past 18 months ie money in the bank 2011, summerslam 2011, raw 1000, summerslam 2012, night of champions 2012 and survivor series 2012

rovert

It is Boards and tend to be more respectful here due to the rules as well as the laid back vibe and pleasantness of the posters here so I am not playing this card lightly but is Melion doing some elaborate troll here as a result of?

Let's not pretend the Attitude Era had long matches all the time. Most it was entrance, catchphrase, 3 minutes of Wrestling, run in/outside interference and that was it.

WWE currently in my opinion has the best top to bottom in ring roster ever.

As already stated the main event of Raw has been heralded as one of the absolute best Raw matches ever. WWE even though so as they put up the match unedited without ad breaks on their Youtube channel. You can count on your hand how many times they have done that in any form - DVD, VHS, online etc.

Melion wrote: »

Ok well ill go with the general opinion here. Punk - Cena the other night was one of the greatest matches in the history of wrestling, better than anything Benoit, HBK, Flair, Angle or Eddie could have managed.

Seriously you are coming off as very trollish now. No one brought those names up.

Melion

rossie1977 wrote: »

for the vast majority of the millions watching it wasn't predictable no, cena came into that match with punk having failed to beat punk in every big match between the two this past 18 months ie money in the bank 2011, summerslam 2011, raw 1000, summerslam 2012, night of champions 2012 and survivor series 2012

Was Punk ever going to be facing Rocky at Mania?

Melion

rovert wrote: »

It is Boards and tend to be more respectful here due to the rules as well as the laid back vibe and pleasantness of the posters here so I am not playing this card lightly but is Melion doing some elaborate troll here as a result of?

Let's not pretend the Attitude Era had long matches all the time. Most it was entrance, catchphrase, 3 minutes of Wrestling, run in/outside interference and that was it.

WWE currently in my opinion has the best top to bottom in ring roster ever.

As already stated the main event of Raw has been heralded as one of the absolute best Raws ever. WWE even though so as they put up the match unedited without ad breaks on their Youtube channel. You can count on your hand how many times they have done that in any form - DVD, VHS, online etc.



Seriously you are coming off as very trollish now. No one brought those names.

Im not trolling at all, if you think i am then please feel free to report my posts. I have said how genuinely interested in Wrestling from the late 90's to 2006(ish) often wasting hours writing promos and results for e-feds.

ShagNastii

What exactly would be your perfect RAW? I'm sure every person here hates breaks for advertisements when we could just stick with the match. We all hate WWE pushing McMahon vanity projects down our throats.

I'll be honest there is some crap in the soap opera kinda of stuff but some moments are class. Probably one of my most entertaining moment ever is Zamboni Austin.

Yeah gimme a 90 minute ironman match but mark out non-wrestling moments add so much to WWE/WCW/ECW/TNA.

One thing I will say is that in recent years there haven't really been any dangerous submission holds in the WWE. Back in the Attitude days the Walls, Crossface or Anklelock was a legit threat to end a match, now they seem to to be merely time filler. They are bringing them back a bit with Swagger and the likes but Punk winning a few Raw matches with the Anaconda and Cena getting a better move than the STF and using that would help greatly imo.

Melion

ShagNastii wrote: »

What exactly would be your perfect RAW? I'm sure every person here hates breaks for advertisements when we could just stick with the match. We all hate WWE pushing McMahon vanity projects down our throats.

Proper build up to exciting PPV matches
Proper matches given a decent amount of time to tell a story
Get rid of the product placement rubbish

ShagNastii wrote: »

I'll be honest there is some crap in the soap opera kinda of stuff but some moments are class. Probably one of my most entertaining moment ever is Zamboni Austin.

Yeah gimme a 90 minute ironman match but mark out non-wrestling moments add so much to WWE/WCW/ECW/TNA.

I completely agree, that moment and countless others involving Austin were amazing. It just seems that even the comedy sketches from the Attitude Era were just much better than the rubbish being served up now. Give me a Mae Young hand birth ahead of Kane / Bryan backstage anyday.

A Primal Nut

Melion wrote: »

I like having a story behind the matches, i wasnt giving out about matches being built up, obviously its essential.

Advertising movies on the show instead of during the 400 commercial breaks?
Tout?
Having the King stuff his face with chicken?
Rolling Twitter feeds?

Are any of those necessary?

I agree that is annoying but ultimately WWE is answerable to its shareholders and having all that allows it to both earn more advertising revenue and promote their show, get people talking and hopefully get more people to tune in and also use Tout (which they own). As a fan I agree its really annoying but as the show is 3 hours, that stuff takes up a small part overall and there is still plenty of room left for matches, promos etc. Time is not a problem for WWE now if anything they have too much time to fill so whoring themselves out to the highest bigger for ad space unfortunately makes sense.

Anyway none of that takes away from the quality of the in-ring talent which is as good as its ever been; just a shame that they aren't allowed to do the hardcore stuff.

The biggest problem WWE have is not the in-ring ability of the wrestlers but the lack of main eventers. It's hard to explain why its so bad but the causes have nothing to do with in-ring wrestling ability or too much time taken up with Twitter, etc.

Melion

Liam O wrote: »

One thing I will say is that in recent years there haven't really been any dangerous submission holds in the WWE. Back in the Attitude days the Walls, Crossface or Anklelock was a legit threat to end a match, now they seem to to be merely time filler. They are bringing them back a bit with Swagger and the likes but Punk winning a few Raw matches with the Anaconda and Cena getting a better move than the STF and using that would help greatly imo.

Jericho has never done the Liontamer properly in WWE that i can recall.

Edit: Found it from WWE, very rare

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGrswQWOSTU

Nody

Melion wrote: »

It wasnt the ad breaks i was giving out about. I understand that american audiences get at least 20 an hour(or so it seems) but why not advertise the movies during those breaks instead of having them on Raw? Thats the point i was making.

Because they would need to buy commercial time rather then use their own free time?

Melion

A Primal Nut wrote: »

The biggest problem WWE have is not the in-ring ability of the wrestlers but the lack of main eventers. It's hard to explain why its so bad but the causes have nothing to do with in-ring wrestling ability or too much time taken up with Twitter, etc.

Cena is and always will be a main eventer, no more problems with that.
Punk - See above.

But when you are relying on the likes of HHH, Taker, Rock and Brock to sell Mania then you know you have a problem. 4 part timers who we all know wont be in a ring for much longer than mid-April.

This issue has been around for a long time from what i understand. Edge and Orton stepped up for a few years but Orton is being punished for his drug offences and obviously Edge is retired.

Id love to see Jericho pushed to the sky again but of course, it wont happen because he wont be around long enough.

There are far too many mid-carders who will never make it to the levels needed to be a main even success in the WWE. Guys like Sheamus, Ryback etc will be fine for a feud for a few months before going back to the midcard.

Loughc

Melion wrote: »

but why not advertise the movies during those breaks instead of having them on Raw? Thats the point i was making.

Because it's free advertising for WWE, at the end of the day the WWE is a business and even tho the fans hate it when they shove their movies down their throats, you can't blame them for advertising for free on their flagship show.

Ando's Saggy Bottom

Melion wrote: »

Ok well ill go with the general opinion here. Punk - Cena the other night was one of the greatest matches in the history of wrestling, better than anything Benoit, HBK, Flair, Angle or Eddie could have managed.

Now thats out of the way, when was the last time there was a GREAT match on Raw?

So its not good enough that there was a classic match on TV in the week gone by, you now want to look back at the one before that? lol.

How often did you get matches of the quality of Monday in any other era on TV? Not very often methinks.

There is excellent wrestling all the way down the card on every WEE produced TV show these days. Sure TV matches are generally short by their very nature but thats par for the course, on a format where storylines are generally built rather than concluded. Luckily there are things called PPV's where WWE have been hitting the ball out of the park for a fair while now in terms of matchy quality. If you can't recognise that then i think you're taking the p*ss tbh. In fact i know you are.

Edit: Actually Punk/Jericho from a couple of weeks back was fantastic as well now that you mention the man himself in a subsequent post!!!

Melion

Pete Campbell wrote: »

So its not good enough that there was a classic match on TV in the week gone by, you now want to look back at the one before that? lol.

How often did you get matches of the quality of Monday in any other era on TV? Not very often methinks.

There is excellent wrestling all the way down the card on every WEE produced TV show these days. Sure TV matches are generally short by their very nature but thats par for the course, on a format where storylines are generally built rather than concluded. Luckily there are things called PPV's where WWE have been hitting the ball out of the park for a fair while now in terms of matchy quality. If you can't recognise that then i think you're taking the p*ss tbh. In fact i know you are.

I dont feel it was a classic match but i said id agree with you for the sake of discussion and asked when was the last time WWE had a great / above average match on Raw. If you could answer that would be great instead of having Mega lOlZZZ.

And they have not been "knocking the ball out of the park" for a while when it comes to PPVs, far from it. Elimination Chamber was a poor PPV as a whole, as was the Rumble IIRC. Ill ask you another question, when was the last 8/9 out of 10 star PPV?

Ando's Saggy Bottom

Melion wrote: »

I dont feel it was a classic match but i said id agree with you for the sake of discussion and asked when was the last time WWE had a great / above average match on Raw. If you could answer that would be great instead of having Mega lOlZZZ.

Punk/Jericho, see my edit. Daniel Bryan vs Rey from the same show was really good too.

And they have not been "knocking the ball out of the park" for a while when it comes to PPVs, far from it. Elimination Chamber was a poor PPV as a whole, as was the Rumble IIRC. Ill ask you another question, when was the last 8/9 out of 10 star PPV?

I'd rather have consistent 7-8/10 PPV's which WWE have been producing lately than the odd amazing 8-9/10 one. These examples you're looking for prove nothing. PPV's have ben very very good lately, and have been commonly acknowledged as so.

Did 8-9/10 PPV's in terms of match quality happen often in the Attitude Era? Did they ever happen in the 80's? Did they f*ck.

rossie1977

Melion wrote:

Ill ask you another question, when was the last 8/9 out of 10 star PPV?

tlc in december, extreme rules prior to that in april last and money in the bank 2011 is one of the top 3 ppvs easily wwe have ever done

as far great matches on raw recently
jericho vs punk 2 feb
ziggler vs cena 7 jan
ryback v punk 7 jan
truth vs kingston vs cesaro vs barrett 3 dec

krudler

Melion wrote: »

I dont feel it was a classic match but i said id agree with you for the sake of discussion and asked when was the last time WWE had a great / above average match on Raw. If you could answer that would be great instead of having Mega lOlZZZ.

And they have not been "knocking the ball out of the park" for a while when it comes to PPVs, far from it. Elimination Chamber was a poor PPV as a whole, as was the Rumble IIRC. Ill ask you another question, when was the last 8/9 out of 10 star PPV?

Money In The Bank 2011 for me, best ppv of the year imo.