Hare Coursing

Sparks

archer22 wrote: »

There is not a single post anywhere from me that was ever anti Gun or anti shooting.

Not even one?

Sparks

reprazant wrote: »

I like how, suddenly, if you do not agree with coursing you are in league with fanatical animal rights groups.

...he said on a thread about a petition by one of those fanatical animal rights groups, ignoring all the posts pointing out that animal welfare groups are regarded seperately by those who have serious objections to the acts of the fanatical animal rights groups.

archer22

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

[/B]

All of a sudden????:rolleyes::rolleyes:
As the old rascist quip goes.."Ive nothing against black people some of my best friends are black..But...
You have just had four examples of the EX PRO of ICABS writing to the national press about gun bans in recent times..But if that isnt good enough for you I suggest you go and research the group you are about to join and sponsor around the early.mid oughties when Tierney was the PRO and you will find plenty of his anti gun/shooting bile there.
If you cant accept that,well I suggest you go and say to Aideen Yourell when you sign up that you are a gun owner and proud of it and see what reaction you will get or whether your membership will be accepted.:p

"all of a sudden" nothing all of a sudden bud..look at my user name ARCHER one who shoots Bows.22 guess what 22 as in the calibre .22,now do you get it..and as for your telling ICAB I am a gun owner,no prob..once again you are making up lies as there is nothing on that site that says gun owners not welcome

reprazant

Sparks wrote: »

Not even one?

That's not anti gun. That's anti-bad aim.

If you are going to shoot an animal, make sure you take it down.

Or do you disagree?

reprazant

Sparks wrote: »

...he said on a thread about a petition by one of those fanatical animal rights groups, ignoring all the posts pointing out that animal welfare groups are regarded seperately by those who have serious objections to the acts of the fanatical animal rights groups.

No, I said on a thread about coursing where the OP asked a question "So what do we think, cruel and should be banned? or acceptable?"

The OP links to a report in breakingnews.ie, not a petition.

You seem to be in the wrong thread.

Sparks

reprazant wrote: »

The OP links to a report in breakingnews.ie, not a petition.
You seem to be in the wrong thread.

A report about an ICABS campaign which is based around a petition. I'm not in the wrong thread, I just seem to have done more background reading about it than some.

Sparks

reprazant wrote: »

That's not anti gun. That's anti-bad aim.
If you are going to shoot an animal, make sure you take it down.
Or do you disagree?

I don't disagree - I just think that that post characterised all hunting in one swipe of a very broad brush. Bad shots do happen - often through no fault of the shooter - but they're not the norm by any means or metric.

archer22

Sparks wrote: »

Not even one?

Taken out of context Bud it was a sarcastic remark to another poster..lets be honest wounding does sometimes happen in Gun hunting thats a FACT..Nothing there calling for gun Ban..you must be getting desperate

Sparks

archer22 wrote: »

Nothing there calling for gun Ban

I thought it was ICABS that you were saying hadn't called for a gun ban (despite the several calls listed above) rather than yourself, who you were just saying wasn't anti-gun and hadn't ever posted even one post saying bad things about guns (well, assuming you don't count the ones search turns up)?

reprazant

Sparks wrote: »

A report about an ICABS campaign which is based around a petition. I'm not in the wrong thread, I just seem to have done more background reading about it than some.

It is irrelevant that the report is about a petition. The OP does not link to the petition, it links to a report about an article about coursing and asks what peoples opinions are about coursing. I read the report but I fail to see why it is important since we are talking about coursing, not the people behind the petition.

This thread is about coursing yet you have repeatedly tried to turn into a thread about ICABS.

Sparks

Sparks wrote: »

I don't disagree - I just think that that post characterised all hunting in one swipe of a very broad brush. Bad shots do happen - often through no fault of the shooter - but they're not the norm by any means or metric.

A gun? That's not hunting. That's like using cheats in a computer game. Use your bare hands or some sort of homemade spear and we'll be impressed. People who get off on killing an animal that has no idea that a gun is even being pointed at it are people who...lets just say, you wouldn't be having them over for dinner. They lack sophistication.

Sparks

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

A gun? That's not hunting. That's like using cheats in a computer game. Use your bare hands or some sort of homemade spear and we'll be impressed.

You'd be impressed by strangling an animal... but you think hunters aren't up to a civilised par.

I think we just hit the knee of the diminishing returns graph.

archer22

Sparks wrote: »

I thought it was ICABS that you were saying hadn't called for a gun ban (despite the several calls listed above) rather than yourself, who you were just saying wasn't anti-gun and hadn't ever posted even one post saying bad things about guns (well, assuming you don't count the ones search turns up)?

Now you are talking Gibberish ...what exactly are you trying to say.

Benny Cake

Seachmall wrote: »

Not watching a terrified animal get ripped apart for enjoyment makes Bambi a better person.


If it was done to a dog in a garden by one man with a knife we call it animal abuse and demand he be locked up.

If it's done to a hare on a racecourse by 50 men with dogs we call it sport and let it continue.

Opinions like this really show how poorly understood the sport of coursing is....

Chuck Stone

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

A gun? That's not hunting.

Top of the food chain humans with high powered rifles and/or packs of dogs shoots at an animal from hundreds of feet away and/or watches it being torn to shreds by a pack of dogs and they like to think of themselves as 'hunters'.

steddyeddy

Sparks wrote: »

That wasn't what the thread you were suggesting was about; you were suggesting that if we had tighter links to conservation bodies, then extremist groups like ICABS would leave us alone.

The objection wasn't to tighter links to conservationists - because the hunting community already has links like that and has had for some time.

The objection was to this idea that (a) ICABS and their ilk should be appeased; and (b) that they ever could be appeased.

These extremist groups are the kind of people who not only claim credit for violent and destructive acts on the web, but who actually have to have seperate icons to denote arson, vandalism, sabotage and what they call "liberation" (which usually entails loosing thousands of pretty vicious non-native predators into an ecosystem that they then destroy). Why on earth would wI e ever want to encourage that kind of group by making them think we would want to seek some sort of compromise with them? They should be charged, convicted and imprisoned, not negotiated with as though they were legitimate protestors.

I.wanted to say you should appease ICABS? What I was referring to public support, which i might add you dont care about either way . Hand on heart I have never heard of ICABS before you lot mentioned it today!!

Sparks

steddyeddy wrote: »

I.wanted to say you should appease ICABS? What I was referring to public support, which i might add you dont care about either way . Hand on heart I have never heard of ICABS before you lot mentioned it today!!

Ahem...

paddy the man

Pro's for Coursing:
Long tradition and brings money to local economy
Heavily regulated by goverment
Dogs muzzled so fatality rate for Hares has decreased
Coursing clubs carry out predator control on Foxes to help protect Hare
Coursing clubs often prevent people shooting Hares on their lands
Hares are wormed and fed well when in captivity
After Coursing Hare is tagged and released (tagged animals not used again)


Con's for Coursing:
4% fatality rate for Hares involved. Capture Myopathy main cause.
Hares are captured in Nets prior to the Coursing meeting. Usually several weeks previous.
Hares held in artifically high numbers in captivity
Coursing meeting often held during breeding season. Breeding season: Jan-Sept
Being chased by dogs, held in captivity, handled by people unpleasant for the Hare
The effects of hare coursing on wild Hare populations are not known.
Introduced Brown Hares from Coursing clubs hybridise with Native Irish Hare

Sparks

Sparks wrote: »

You'd be impressed by strangling an animal...

Yes, I would. I would be extremely impressed to see a hunter go one on one trying to strangle a stag of a similar maturity/health.

Hunters who kill for fun? My cat has killed for fun because it doesn't know any better. So to me, a hunter is about as mentally proficient as my cat. Without the sophistication. Horrible people.

robertpatterson

Con's for Coursing:
4% fatality rate for Hares involved. Capture Myopathy main cause.
Hares are captured in Nets prior to the Coursing meeting. Usually several weeks previous.
Hares held in artifically high numbers in captivity
Coursing meeting often held during breeding season. Breeding season: Jan-Sept
Being chased by dogs, held in captivity, handled by people unpleasant for the Hare
The effects of hare coursing on wild Hare populations are not known.
Introduced Brown Hares from Coursing clubs hybridise with Native Irish Hare





Last coursing meeting is in early February

paddy the man

robertpatterson wrote: »

Con's for Coursing:
4% fatality rate for Hares involved. Capture Myopathy main cause.
Hares are captured in Nets prior to the Coursing meeting. Usually several weeks previous.
Hares held in artifically high numbers in captivity
Coursing meeting often held during breeding season. Breeding season: Jan-Sept
Being chased by dogs, held in captivity, handled by people unpleasant for the Hare
The effects of hare coursing on wild Hare populations are not known.
Introduced Brown Hares from Coursing clubs hybridise with Native Irish Hare





Last coursing meeting is in early February

Irish hares are seasonal breeders the mating season runs from January through to September but if conditions are favourable and there is an abundance of food combined with mild weather then they may breed year long.

fourleafclover

paddy the man wrote: »

Pro's for Coursing:
Long tradition and brings money to local economy
Heavily regulated by goverment
Dogs muzzled so fatality rate for Hares has decreased
Coursing clubs carry out predator control on Foxes to help protect Hare
Coursing clubs often prevent people shooting Hares on their lands
Hares are wormed and fed well when in captivity
After Coursing Hare is tagged and released (tagged animals not used again)


Con's for Coursing:
4% fatality rate for Hares involved. Capture Myopathy main cause.
Hares are captured in Nets prior to the Coursing meeting. Usually several weeks previous.
Hares held in artifically high numbers in captivity
Coursing meeting often held during breeding season. Breeding season: Jan-Sept
Being chased by dogs, held in captivity, handled by people unpleasant for the Hare
The effects of hare coursing on wild Hare populations are not known.
Introduced Brown Hares from Coursing clubs hybridise with Native Irish Hare

Capture Myopathy is a very dubious diagnosis, the studies pertaining to it in general are questionable. It also in one study says that 4 hares 6 weeks after a coursing meeting died due to capture myopathy, what is strange is that of the 84 hares released 4 died due to coursing but none died due to natural causes or due to predators??


The coursing season is october to february so as NOT to interfere with breeding.


Effects of hare coursing on hare population are known - the quercus report by Queens university belfast has said hares are 18 times more populant in areas with coursing than areas without and that the population of hares in the north has diminished since coursing was banned.

robertpatterson

paddy the man wrote: »

Irish hares are seasonal breeders the mating season runs from January through to September but if conditions are favourable and there is an abundance of food combined with mild weather then they may breed year long.

Im not disagreeing with you about their breeding
You said coursing often takes place during their breeding season Breeding season: Jan-Sept
I said the last coursing meeting is held in early February so its not really a great point youve made if theyre breeding season is for 9 months of the year and coursing only takes place for one month of that

paddy the man

fourleafclover wrote: »

Capture Myopathy is a very dubious diagnosis, the studies pertaining to it in general are questionable. It also in one study says that 4 hares 6 weeks after a coursing meeting died due to capture myopathy, what is strange is that of the 84 hares released 4 died due to coursing but none died due to natural causes or due to predators??


The coursing season is october to february so as NOT to interfere with breeding.


Effects of hare coursing on hare population are known - the quercus report by Queens university belfast has said hares are 18 times more populant in areas with coursing than areas without and that the population of hares in the north has diminished since coursing was banned.

Capture myopathy is a well documented syndrome following the restraint of wild animals. It can be diagnosed by post mortem lesions. The Irish Coursing Club does not dispute this.

The Coursing season attempts to limit the effect it has on the breeding Hares, but Irish Hares can breed in Jan/Feb.

Due to beneficial predator control numbers of Irish Hares are higher in Coursing areas. Also captured Hares are relocated to these areas (often fenced) which lead to higher population densities.

What surveys have shown that the banning of Coursing has led to a drop in numbers of Irish Hares in Northern Ireland? Since Irish Hares undergo yearly cyclical variation in population numbers it is not possible to determine whether a population has decreased in two years since the ban.

wexfordman

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Top of the food chain humans with high powered rifles and/or packs of dogs shoots at an animal from hundreds of feet away

Youve obviously never been hunting. And, from my own perspective:-
I am less of a coward, and far more ethical in the manner in which I provide food for my family.

I raise my own animals

I hunt duck, pigeon, pheasant and deer, and its all done entirely by myself, shot prepared and brought to the table for my own family.

I know the health of the animals I hunt
I know how they died
I ensure it is as quick and painless as possible
I abide by rules and regulations to maintain population levels
I support and assist most of the animals I eat and hunt, to ensure it is sustainable.

Compare that to most of the individuals on this forum who claim to be concerned about animal welfare, but couldnt give a toss where their meat came from whether it be from intensive pig farming, whether it be some mangy ill treated drugged up horse, whether it be battery farmed chickens, whether it was killed humanely or not.

As long as it came in a plastic wrapper, and they dont have to associate it with a living breathing animal, then for some absurd reason they perceive themselves to be more ethical and caring of animals than those of us who have an active involvement in hunting and wildlife preservation.

There is literally no excuse for meat eaters to claim some for of ethical superiority to hunters, in fact it is quite the opposite, and it makes most look very foolish indeed, and literally stranded for any sensible or credible argument.

OldNotWIse

wexfordman wrote: »

Youve obviously never been hunting. And, from my own perspective:-
I am less of a coward, and fare more ethical in the manner in which I provide food for my family.

I raise my own animals

I hunt duck, pigeon, pheasant and deer, and its all done entirely by myself, shot prepared and brought to the table for my own family.

I know the health of the animals I hunt
I know how they died
I ensure it is as quick and painless as possible
I abide by rules and regulations to maintain population levels
I support and assist most of the animals I eat and hunt

Compare that to most of the individuals on this forum who claim to be concerned about animal welfare, and couldnt give a toss where their meat came from whether it be from intensive pgi farming, whether it be mangy ill treated drugged up horses, whether it be battery farmed chickens, whether it was killed humanely or not. As long as it came in a plastic wrapper, and they dont have to associate it with a living breathing animal, then for some absurd reason they perceive themselves to be more ethical and caring of animals than those of us who have an active involvement in hunting and wildlife preservation.

There is literally no excuse for meat eaters to claim some for of ethical superiority to hunters, in fact it is quite the opposite, and it makes most look very foolish indeed, and literally stranded for any sensible or credible argument.

Very much agree with the bolded part.
I think the issue is with hunting for the sake of "sport" as opposed to doing it for food?? And yes I think your approach beats intensive battery farming hands down...but I suspect the morons frequenting the coursing etc still buy their meat in tesco or aldi.

reprazant

Damn you Chuck Stone and your ill-informed generalisations about hunting.

Oh, by the way,

most of the individuals on this forum who claim to be concerned about animal welfare, and couldnt give a toss where their meat came from whether it be from intensive pgi farming, whether it be mangy ill treated drugged up horses, whether it be battery farmed chickens, whether it was killed humanely or not. As long as it came in a plastic wrapper, and they dont have to associate it with a living breathing animal, then for some absurd reason they perceive themselves to be more ethical and caring of animals than those of us who have an active involvement in hunting and wildlife preservation.

reprazant

reprazant wrote: »

Oh, by the way,

Well, that's a big lie. I very much refuse to eat from anywhere, or from any source that I consider animal treatment to be below par.

Any other groundbreaking observations to add?

wexfordman

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Well, that's a big lie. I very much refuse to eat from anywhere, or from any source that I consider animal treatment to be below par.

Any other groundbreaking observations to add?

First off, its not a big lie, its a fair generalisation.

So, where do you source your meat from, and how do you "consider" it to be below par or not ?

Chuck Stone

wexfordman wrote: »

I hunt duck, pigeon, pheasant and deer

You mean you shoot them with a gun.