Braemor Road trees being chopped :(

jaykay74

Sad to see the trees being removed from Braemor Road in the name of progress.

"unsuitable for their current environment".
county council speak for "can't be bothered". :mad:

Dubl07

That's a shame. If they're narrowing the road why do they need to level the trees?

Tragedy

Narrowing the road is a great idea, let's make it even harder to safely overtake cyclists!

(And yes I am aware they'll be 'upgrading' the cycling facilities, but people will still cycle on the road).

Bodder1

Absolute disgrace that these beautiful trees are being removed. Oh yes let's have more concrete! Councillors and politicians who dreamt this up should hang their heads in shame or have their heads examined!! Idiots!

AND there is supposed to be no money in the country and they blow hundreds of thousands (or God knows how much) destroying a beautful road like this. UNBELIEVABLE!

ted1

It's typically of dlrcoco, they look at ways of spending money on roads etc as oppose to seem what is required.
I'm convinced that they have to much staff in roads and transport department and they all think up of hair brain ideas to keep themselves busy

Bodder1

ted1 wrote: »

It's typically of dlrcoco, they look at ways of spending money on roads etc as oppose to seem what is required.
I'm convinced that they have to much staff in roads and transport department and they all think up of hair brain ideas to keep themselves busy

Hair brain or no brains, it's a bananas idea, they have no appreciation of the benefits of these beautiful trees. The road wasn't perfect mainly because of the dodgy cycling lanes but the main reason they were dodgy was that they NEVER bothered to do any maintenance on them since they were 1st installed, many years ago. Otherwise it was a lovely driving road as you swept round the bend thro the avenue of trees. It was absolutely fine for pedestrians so I don't know what the DLRCOCO are on about! Breathtaking stuff! How did the people of the area let this happen? Rumour has it, it was all started by some woman with a petition and managed to dupe people into signing it!!??

patrickbrophy18

What they could do is move the cycle track to where the green patches are now given that they are felling trees. Next, create a buffer where the cycle track is for pedestrians with a grass verge separating the cyclists from the pedestrians. The purpose of this would be to allow cyclists to go around the bus stop without worrying about buses cutting them off. Moreover, they would be able to go smoothly around the left of the bus stop with out losing momentum. Finally, it would provide a conflict-free environment for pedestrians and cyclists.

Having said that, the reduction of carriageway width here to slow motorists down is further evidence that the DLRCOCO are anti-car,bus and truck. Improving facilities for pedestrians and cyclists at the expense of the remaining road users is the part I am against. If infrastructural improvements are to be carried out, it should be done to optimize all transportation modes. The council are failing to learn from previous jobs such as Blackthorn Road, Killiney Towers Roundabout and the removal of Mounttown Road Roundabout.

Reduction of carriageway width will undoubtedly have a negative impact on buses using this road (given that a bus stop is clearly visibly in the picture the OP provided). Buses also take cars off the road.

Mort5000

My eyes my be poor this morning, but I swear bullet point 5 says "replace trees" and not "remove trees".

Bodder1

Mort5000 wrote: »

My eyes my be poor this morning, but I swear bullet point 5 says "replace trees" and not "remove trees".

Yes they will plant some new trees but if you know this road then you will know that the trees being felled are decades old and very mature trees. Whatever trees they plant will take decades again to come to maturity and in the meantime we have concrete, concrete and more concrete!. I might also add that the number of trees to be replanted is likely to be fewer than the present number. This is pure wanton destruction and they are using valuable cash and resources to do it! It is disgraceful and unbelievable in equal measure.

Tragedy

Off road cycle lanes are a failure, instead of using the width of the road to facilitate a cycle track they're narrowing the road and building a no doubt exorbitant off road cycle track that
1)No-one will use
2)Will never be maintained

Progress!

Bodder1

Tragedy wrote: »

Off road cycle lanes are a failure, instead of using the width of the road to facilitate a cycle track they're narrowing the road and building a no doubt exorbitant off road cycle track that
1)No-one will use
2)Will never be maintained

Progress!

Precisely! You are spot-on. The last cycle lane was barely every used (I am a local regular cyclist and I know it) and as regards maintenance, well, here wasn't any! That was the whole problem!.
So now we are to trust these same guys (the DLRCOCO) with this whole new daft project? Wait til you see, if you like concrete then this project will probably turn out to be a masterpiece. But wait 10 years and after zero maintenance it will be a croc again.
Another example of the folly of this and the lack of forward thinking is that last year they removed several trees that were affecting the cycle lane which they promptly replaced with new trees. But guess what? These new trees are also being ripped up right now. What a joke!

Mort5000

Bodder1 wrote: »

Yes they will plant some new trees but if you know this road then you will know that the trees being felled are decades old and very mature trees. Whatever trees they plant will take decades again to come to maturity and in the meantime we have concrete, concrete and more concrete!. I might also add that the number of trees to be replanted is likely to be fewer than the present number. This is pure wanton destruction and they are using valuable cash and resources to do it! It is disgraceful and unbelievable in equal measure.

You don't have to have concrete. You can move out of the suburbs.
Are the trees causing damage to the drainage/sewer system or road surface?

Has someone asked the council why they're removing the trees?

Irish and Proud

ted1 wrote: »

It's typically of dlrcoco, they look at ways of spending money on roads etc as oppose to seem what is required.
I'm convinced that they have to much staff in roads and transport department and they all think up of hair brain ideas to keep themselves busy

+1

Yes indeed, how about some simple resurfacing (of existing roads and cycle lanes) and footpath renewal works as well as better lighting? Surely that would be money well spent in the times of recession. BTW, it's not only the Council that's responsible - it's also the National Transport Authority who devise many of these hair-brained road specs - see the National Cycle Manual for example - that shower have, as I understand it, been given in excess of €40m! :mad:

...looking at the latest on the Killiney Towers Roundabout debacle, are the NTA really about cycling or are they just plain anti car???

Larbre34

Irish and Proud wrote: »

are the NTA really about cycling or are they just plain anti car???

To answer your rhetorical question with an realistic answer, yes. But we all knew that and you'll need a new government to change it.

http://www.dlrcoco.ie/aboutus/councildepartments/transportation/findit/statusofmajorroadschemes/braemorroadenhancementscheme/

Have a read of this people, all is explained. Its a pity to see the trees go as its a lovely avenue but according to this they are nearing the end of their life, id rather see a planned replacement than a decaying mess which would get dangerous as the boughs rotted.

Tragedy

"It has one of the highest demands within the Dun Laoghaire Rathdown County
Council area."
Anyone know what that is meant to mean? I can't imagine it means traffic (either vehicular or cyclist) as it's a lot quieter than any of the roads around it.

The ride quality is affected by the vertical transitions caused by the roots of the trees, cars parking upon the cycleway and the lack of maintenance ofthe red surfacing.

Actually, the ride quality is most affected by being constantly interrupted by driveways and side roads - not cars, roots or the surface (although it's three or four years since I cycled it regularly so it could have gotten worse?)

The cycle lanes are of inadequate width and are of bad condition due to cars mounting and
parking on the cycle track.

Lies. Even in sections where cars never mount the cycle path the surface condition is diabolical.

The whole safety section reads as if it was written by a child. It misuses statistics, draws causal links out of thin air and considers 1 death and 4 series accidents in 13 years on a road with over 12,000 vehicles using it every day as being 'significant'. Utter nonsense and bull**** written by a clueless bureaucrat somewhere.


I see that they are indeed proceeding with a mostly offroad cycle track. Hurrah to facing the exact same problems in 4-5 years as we face now, after a spend no doubt in excess of seven figures.

Wibbs

Tragedy wrote: »

The whole safety section reads as if it was written by a child. It misuses statistics, draws causal links out of thin air and considers 1 death and 4 series accidents in 13 years on a road with over 12,000 vehicles using it every day as being 'significant'. Utter nonsense and bull**** written by a clueless bureaucrat somewhere.

Nail on the head. This is a complete farce and they've wrecked the whole leafy feel of that road and for what? As for replacing trees? I'll believe it when I see it and as has been pointed out they'll be glorified sticks compared to the mature avenue of trees those fools have just destroyed. Then again we are talking about the DLRCOCO crowd here, so experience would tend to show brains and foresight appears almost a barrier to entry.

Tragedy

The stated reason for removing the trees was that cuttings due to overhead wires/lights had basically made them misshapen and ugly.
I love the whole stretch of road from Dodder Park to the end of the Braemor Road primarily because of the trees. I cycled it twice a day for years and always looked forward to it (albeit not the cycle path), but apparently we need perfectly symmetrical trees in DLR.

Wibbs

I'd call ballsology on that excuse of theirs T. One or two had bad haircuts. So? Didn't occur to any of these balloonheads that they could prune them into more aesthetically pleasing shapes? Though having met various high up council types down the years typing "aesthetically" on one of their missives without a spellchecker would likely lead to some hilarious results.

I'd reckon that this was simply some "plan" to "improve" the road by someone trying to make a name for themselves.

Tragedy

Wouldn't surprise me if a local councillor lives on the road. They installed traffic calming measures on part of the Knocklyon Road last year and after some digging I found out that a local councillor who lived on an estate just off it had been making noise about it for several years previously - and had obviously worked her 'magic' on the CoCo.

Bobby Buckley

In These difficult times our media are prone to look for the positives in our society and that may be a good thing to keep the morale up in our country but then one is always wary that one might be deluded . That there are groups or even public servants who exhibit the most malign intentions or are capable of the most crass actions. For years I drove ,walked ,cycled up Braemor road and the joy that one felt that some inspired public official planted a line of Hornbeams along that road.In April -May as these trees broke leaf with their delicate shade of green one thanked God that someone in the past had the vision to plant them there. That is a vision that has now been terminated for ever. Coming home from town on St. Pa tricks Day i am first of all bemused as I turn on Braemor road that I can see the telephone wires and then it implodes on me on what has happened , another act of Violence By Dun Laoghaire -Rathdown on our streetscape on our environment and on any kind of hope in our society. In the past i have met their officials and feel that one is meeting a group of cynics in charge of our environment and all one feels is that sense of being alone ,feeling naive that such people are in charge of anything . Even as I write this to you one feels that sense of dismay that DLR are now part of that group who knows best. In the previous Dail it was only The late Seamus Brennan who showed any sympathy to the environment in this area. The greens never responded .
Now the damage is done . The trees are gone and the vandals sheath their chainsaws and Braemor road is reduced to the tree impoverished streets similar to the crime ridden streets that we see on LOVE-HateTV programme. The council may say they will replant . How can they succeed? The trees have only been cynically cut down to half the bole ,which will mean all the roots are intact and no new tree will have any purchase in the ground.This is an appalling action and one feels that the local community should make a victim impact statement. I remember the people of Terenure twenty years ago saved their trees from road widening . One wonders where the local residents , their representatives were on this.

Larbre34

Bobby Buckley wrote: »

In These difficult times our media are prone to look for the positives in our society and that may be a good thing to keep the morale up in our country but then one is always wary that one might be deluded . That there are groups or even public servants who exhibit the most malign intentions or are capable of the most crass actions. For years I drove ,walked ,cycled up Braemor road and the joy that one felt that some inspired public official planted a line of Hornbeams along that road.In April -May as these trees broke leaf with their delicate shade of green one thanked God that someone in the past had the vision to plant them there. That is a vision that has now been terminated for ever. Coming home from town on St. Pa tricks Day i am first of all bemused as I turn on Braemor road that I can see the telephone wires and then it implodes on me on what has happened , another act of Violence By Dun Laoghaire -Rathdown on our streetscape on our environment and on any kind of hope in our society. In the past i have met their officials and feel that one is meeting a group of cynics in charge of our environment and all one feels is that sense of being alone ,feeling naive that such people are in charge of anything . Even as I write this to you one feels that sense of dismay that DLR are now part of that group who knows best. In the previous Dail it was only The late Seamus Brennan who showed any sympathy to the environment in this area. The greens never responded .
Now the damage is done . The trees are gone and the vandals sheath their chainsaws and Braemor road is reduced to the tree impoverished streets similar to the crime ridden streets that we see on LOVE-HateTV programme. The council may say they will replant . How can they succeed? The trees have only been cynically cut down to half the bole ,which will mean all the roots are intact and no new tree will have any purchase in the ground.This is an appalling action and one feels that the local community should make a victim impact statement. I remember the people of Terenure twenty years ago saved their trees from road widening . One wonders where the local residents , their representatives were on this.

Thank you Samuel Beckett.

On your last point, they were busy voting in favour of the works.

The stumps will be removed as part of the civil works.

Semi-mature replacement trees are part of the published scheme.


The loss of the mature trees is unfortunate, but they are becoming dangerous and personally Im glad my aging parents wont be breaking their necks on the uneven path slabs.

Bobby Buckley

Thank you for the response. I am sorry that your parents have now to live in a sudden environmentally impoverished area.

Bobby Buckley

The late Trees of Braemor Road March 17th 2013.
I was so upset over those Braemor Road trees
When I turned the bend and only saw wires
The trees were gone ,no more Springs again to please.

In my mind that avenue was destroyed by bullies
Who only wished to fulfil their own desires
A place for concrete, bike paths and all that sullies.

Instantly a sylvan suburb is cut to its knees
By he/she who plan and faraway conspires
Seeing only lines, designs and full fat fees.

In its bright bedrooms Braemor is strip teased
As the 15 bus looks on as it attires
Without the trees shade there could well now be orgies.

Not likely , most of the residents are in their sixties
And feel the need to take their ease, retire.
No tree karma, there could well be queues in the A&E’s.

The DLR has spoken, there are to be no great trees
Only pristine pavements with pristine tyres,
A few wired saplings trapped in the breeze.
They care for the environment. OH Please! Please! Please!.

Solair

Could they not have just undergrounded the ugly utility cables and thus avoided having to lop the trees in future?

It also would have gotten rid of a lot of poles which would have made more room for cycle paths etc.

Whole thing sounds idiotic!

By the looks of the above photo, they chose some pretty horribly utilitarian lamps too.

Bobby Buckley

Once the trees are cut all that infrastructural wiring become evident.:):)

fussyonion

*pops in to chuckle at the email address "whorgan" and pops back out again*

Bobby Buckley

!

somme mud

Juat heard about this today. Have been driving down thhis road all my life,and it has given much pleasure. Drove down it today and was sick to see what has been done . All my children who are cyclists say the cydle track is unsafe and use the road. However i dont understand how it was necessary to cut down mature trees. Trees approaching there life span arent we all. i examined what is left and the look particularly healthy to me . Its too late now but wouldnt it be a good idea to let Mr Horgan (e-mail address on the notice)know how people feel about this. In times of austerity is this a priority? Given residents of Dlcoco are the highest payers of household tax in the country should we not have some say in what is done in advance.

somme mud

Larbre34 wrote: »

Thank you Samuel Beckett.

On your last point, they were busy voting in favour of the works.

The stumps will be removed as part of the civil works.

Semi-mature replacement trees are part of the published scheme.


The loss of the mature trees is unfortunate, but they are becoming dangerous and personally Im glad my aging parents wont be breaking their necks on the uneven path slabs.

Have you asked your aged parent what they think of the loss of these beautiful trees?

older i get better i was

Shame trees are gone , usual council hammer to crack a nut reaction, expect an unsatisfactory finish to job, que start up of action group years of letters to and fro, just when you put your house up for sale to retire to wexford, it'll get sorted, by mistake!! Mr Keegan is an accident waiting to happen.

Mort5000

You're not doing too badly if you can spend almost 3 pages complaining about trees in your area.
Imagine something serious happened in the area....

delta_bravo

As a cyclist I'm glad they sorting out this road. The surface of the road and the bike lanes were terrible for cycling. In many cases the bike lanes had cars parked on them forcing you to go on the road which cars were often travelling on at high speed as it was a long straight with no ramps. What I would like to see is the removal of the bike lane and have cycle lane markings on a newly tarmaced road.

Tragedy

delta_bravo wrote: »

As a cyclist I'm glad they sorting out this road. The surface of the road and the bike lanes were terrible for cycling. In many cases the bike lanes had cars parked on them forcing you to go on the road which cars were often travelling on at high speed as it was a long straight with no ramps. What I would like to see is the removal of the bike lane and have cycle lane markings on a newly tarmaced road.

Which is the opposite of what they're doing - and even worse, they're making the road far narrower so that if you do choose to cycle on the road, it's inordinately far more dangerous.

Cienciano

Was driving down this road last week and couldn't believe what they did. Thought they were widening the road or something. When I see the reasons for it, it really beggars belief! How can a county council be so idiotic?

delta_bravo

Tragedy wrote: »

Which is the opposite of what they're doing - and even worse, they're making the road far narrower so that if you do choose to cycle on the road, it's inordinately far more dangerous.

Not really. A wide road allows cars to build up speed which is exactly what is happening now. A narrower road with traffic calming measure which has an onroad cycle lane makes it a far safer environment for cyclists.

Tragedy

delta_bravo wrote: »

Not really. A wide road allows cars to build up speed which is exactly what is happening now. A narrower road with traffic calming measure which has an onroad cycle lane makes it a far safer environment for cyclists.

How does road width influence speed? I've done a lot of research on road safety and I can assure you, there is no consensus on the psychological affects of road width vis-a-vis speeding.

Also, I cycled Braemor Road twice daily for over 2 years and never noticed speeding. I then drove it twice daily 18 months ago for a long period driving to Milltown from Knocklyon and again, never noticed rampant speeding.

I cycle enough around Dublin to absolutely loathe roads that are too narrow for both cycle lane and passing car traffic, yet have both. They are incredibly dangerous, and to new and inexperienced cyclists incredibly off putting and frightening.

Also, when did traffic calming come into it?

monument

Tragedy wrote: »

Off road cycle lanes are a failure, instead of using the width of the road to facilitate a cycle track they're narrowing the road and building a no doubt exorbitant off road cycle track that
1)No-one will use
2)Will never be maintained

Progress!

It's unlikely that the cycle tracks will never be used.

The planned off-road mostly segregated cycle tracks are -- at least on paper -- nothing like the off-road cycle tracks built in Dublin in the past.

While I don't think the design is absolute perfection, it is far, far better than most cycle track design around Dublin.

Tragedy wrote: »

How does road width influence speed? I've done a lot of research on road safety and I can assure you, there is no consensus on the psychological affects of road width vis-a-vis speeding.

That's interesting. It's portrayed as consensus.

I agree that a lot of road narrowing done here (without cycle lanes / tracks) has made things worse for cyclists.

Tragedy wrote: »

Also, when did traffic calming come into it?

The scheme is full of it. Full of traffic calming that is.

Pedestrian tables at side roads, raised cycle track between footpaths and the main carriageway, lane narrowing (even if there's a lack of consensus), corrner tighting, turning lane removal etc

Tragedy

monument wrote: »

It's unlikely that the cycle tracks will never be used.

The planned off-road mostly segregated cycle tracks are -- at least on paper -- nothing like the off-road cycle tracks built in Dublin in the past.

While I don't think the design is absolute perfection, it is far, far better than most cycle track design around Dublin.

I honestly have yet to see a segregated cycle track being used by more cyclists than the road beside which it runs, in my experience cycling around South Dublin (generally Knocklyon to CC, Knocklyon to Dun Laoghaire, and Dun Laoghaire to CC).

That's interesting. It's portrayed as consensus.

So are a lot of things The literature is fairly ambiguous and the main problem with the studies are that they either ignore heterogeneity, or compare the same road before/after while ignoring that the road was materially altered in other ways. I'd recommend you read up on it, if you're interested and have half an hour to spend!

The scheme is full of it. Full of traffic calming that is.

Pedestrian tables at side roads, raised cycle track between footpaths and the main carriageway, lane narrowing (even if there's a lack of consensus), corrner tighting, turning lane removal etc

Pedestrian tables? Nothing like that mentioned in the scheme, only 'tacticle paving' which I believe means the sandstone coloured pimpled material they have at crossings, it's not a table and it certainly isn't traffic calming.
A slightly raised cycle track isn't traffic calming (and as an aside, the current cycle track is raised).
I don't know what corner tighting is and regardless, none of the corners are being re-engineered.
The turning lanes being removed at Woodside Drive, Braemor Drive, Landscape Avenue, Redwood Court, Milltown Drive and Landscape Court aren't traffic calming, they're the result of the road being narrowed and physically not having the space to allow turning lanes.

The only traffic calming measure is the reduction of the road width, and I could write a far more convincing report on why that appears to be ineffectual than DLR did when arguing for it's use.

All that said, I hope that the offline cycle lane is built to a high standard, that it is maintained properly, that the surface isn't made of chocolate and that it isn't being continuously interrupted by the entrances to people's houses.
But IME with DLRCC and SDCC, none of that is likely to be true^

annfield1978

The scheme although not finished yet is looking very good, and is a great facility to encourage children to cycle

ollaetta

annfield1978 wrote: »

The scheme although not finished yet is looking very good, and is a great facility to encourage children to cycle

Have to agree. Like many I was very sceptical about this scheme but must now concede that it's turning out well.

ellee

Hmm, yes, but I personally am getting anxious about the new tress. Where are they?

Didn't they say they'd plant more? I see no sign of tree planting yet.

Larbre34

ellee wrote: »

Hmm, yes, but I personally am getting anxious about the new tress. Where are they?

Didn't they say they'd plant more? I see no sign of tree planting yet.

Its not a good time for it, if you dont get trees planted by the end of October you need to wait until Spring or you risk dead loss. Theres still a fair bit of work going on at the junctions anyway from what Ive seen, no point doing half the landscaping before the construction is done

SlushPuppie

Well they have begun planting trees on the upper end of the road, near Super Value. I asked a worker about them. Can't remember what species he said they were, but they will not grow very large, at least not large enough to lift the paths again and hide the cables overhead. They will, he said have quite a bit of foliage on them. I was hoping for cherry trees or something with a bountiful spring bloom, that would develop a bit of character. Right now the ones they're planting are all identical in height and width, with straight tall trunks and upward pointing branches, a line of clones. I hate that manicured 'lollipop' look, like what an eight year old draws.

I was walking down Orwell Park road recently and the trees there are gigantic, old and characterful. It makes such a difference aesthetically. Can't imagine the residents there would allow such butchery.

In regards to the cycle lane, it certainly is neater, smoother and wider, but alas as a driver I find myself constantly stuck behind fat bottomed lycra wearers who simply refuse to use it. What is their excuse? I know the road's not finished yet, but if they continue to do this it will frustrate drivers to no end, especially when they cycle two abreast. Since the single white line is in place the whole length of the road it is now more difficult to overtake them, and buses for that matter.

All in all I don't feel it was money well spent. Most of those trees could have been kept, since only a few were uprooting the paths. As for the cycle lane, it was never maintained....more than likely the same thing will happen to this one.

ellee

SlushPuppie, there was nearly no practical notice, there was a letter in the door one day, and the trees were gone when I came back from work the following day. My memory is we got the letter on Friday and the trees were gone on Monday but I might be wrong. It was very much a fait accompli.

I'm sure there was probably lengthier more obscure notice somewhere but I for one didn't see it. I had noticed the markings on the trees but I didn't realise they were planning to cut them down.

That said I'm only living there since 2007 and this is the second time they've undertaken major works trying to fix the cycle path so I think the trees must have been causing considerable problems really. Someone else upthread said they were coming to the end of their natural life also.

And finally, they weren't the most handsome trees in the world. Not like the ones on Orwell Road. Still they were better than no trees. I do hope the new ones are a decent replacement. I am glad to hear they've started planting at least.

SlushPuppie

@Ellee

I remember getting a notice about a plan to narrow the road and install "traffic calming measures" -which I thought meant ramps, thank God that's not happening- before Christmas of last year. Not a word about cutting the trees down though. It wasn't until a neighbour of mine started tying yellow ribbons around them did most people become aware of what was happening, by that stage it was too late. Oh well, at least there will be trees blooming next year to break up the concrete monotony.

RacoonQueen

SlushPuppie wrote: »

In regards to the cycle lane, it certainly is neater, smoother and wider, but alas as a driver I find myself constantly stuck behind fat bottomed lycra wearers who simply refuse to use it. What is their excuse? I know the road's not finished yet, but if they continue to do this it will frustrate drivers to no end, especially when they cycle two abreast. Since the single white line is in place the whole length of the road it is now more difficult to overtake them, and buses for that matter.

They're using the road because there are often cars and vans parked in them and people walking in them. They can't go round obstacles as they have to bump their bike down off the 'kerb' and they have grass on the other side.
It hasn't been the best planning cycle lane wise. I'd be unlikely to use them myself.

That and the use of cycle lanes is not mandatory.

ardmacha

When reconstructing roads like this they should put the electric cables underground when everything is dug up, or at least as far as possible. DLRCoCo have a poor record in this regard compared to some other local authorities.

That and the use of cycle lanes is not mandatory.

They absolutely should be made mandatory, especially where the road has been narrowed.

SlushPuppie

I could see that point with the old cycle lane, but now the kerb has been deliberately lowered to accomodate ease of access on and off the path should one need to move off. Very rarely do I see cars parked in the cycle lanes on Braemor Road. Pedestrians generally don't walk in them either.

It may not be mandatory to use the lane -although I think it should be, when it's been provided- however neither is it unreasonable for me to be pissed off when cyclists simply refuse to pull into the empty lane to allow me to overtake, instead of making me watch them pedal all the way up the hill. Lower kerb = no excuse.

LXFlyer

RacoonQueen wrote: »

They're using the road because there are often cars and vans parked in them and people walking in them. They can't go round obstacles as they have to bump their bike down off the 'kerb' and they have grass on the other side.
It hasn't been the best planning cycle lane wise. I'd be unlikely to use them myself.

That and the use of cycle lanes is not mandatory.

Actually - I would say that the cycle lanes on Braemor Road are some of the better designed ones - they're flat, they're wide, and they merge with the road in advance of junctions, meaning cyclists don't have to stop at each junction.

monument

RacoonQueen wrote: »

They're using the road because there are often cars and vans parked in them and people walking in them. They can't go round obstacles as they have to bump their bike down off the 'kerb' and they have grass on the other side.
It hasn't been the best planning cycle lane wise. I'd be unlikely to use them myself.

That and the use of cycle lanes is not mandatory.

Are you talking cycle lanes/paths in general or these new cycle paths?

RacoonQueen

ardmacha wrote: »

When reconstructing roads like this they should put the electric cables underground when everything is dug up, or at least as far as possible. DLRCoCo have a poor record in this regard compared to some other local authorities.

They absolutely should be made mandatory, especially where the road has been narrowed.

What about the cars that park on them? What does the cyclist do then?

SlushPuppie wrote: »

I could see that point with the old cycle lane, but now the kerb has been deliberately lowered to accomodate ease of access on and off the path should one need to move off. Very rarely do I see cars parked in the cycle lanes on Braemor Road. Pedestrians generally don't walk in them either.

It may not be mandatory to use the lane -although I think it should be, when it's been provided- however neither is it unreasonable for me to be pissed off when cyclists simply refuse to pull into the empty lane to allow me to overtake, instead of making me watch them pedal all the way up the hill. Lower kerb = no excuse.

Why is there a kerb at all? A road bike is not designed for going up and down from kerbs. However 'low' it is. The way it is now cyclists are still likely to find a random barrier or cone blocking their way with works ongoing (and cars and people) and with the 'kerb' a lot of the way along it may be difficulty for them to get around it without them having to stop and get on the road. 'Very rarely' seeing people are cars in them is too often. Would you like if someone just left their bike in the middle of the road and walked off? or just walked along on the road rather than use the path? I used to cycle that way too and from work and am driving it at the moment. See cars/vans/people in the lane every day. As a cyclist maybe I'm more inclined to notice...

lxflyer wrote: »

Actually - I would say that the cycle lanes on Braemor Road are some of the better designed ones - they're flat, they're wide, and they merge with the road in advance of junctions, meaning cyclists don't have to stop at each junction.

Agreed, however, my issue is that they are still essentially taking cyclists off the road, I don't like that.

monument wrote: »

Are you talking cycle lanes/paths in general or these new cycle paths?

The new cycle paths.