Does anyone know where I can meet gay guys who arn't jerks in Dublin

ewan whose army

I don't know if its me, but the guys I meet in places like The Dragon are just jerks who only seem to want to have sex with me which is something I am not really into :-(

Am I just wierd for a 22 year old guy to want something else, its just that is the impression I seem to get. Being gay sucks sometimes

Walker77

I am sure there are guys out there who are looking for the same thing.
http://www.belongto.org/ is a good way to meet people. I had a look at your twitter page really cool. I am a fan of Depeche mode.

ewan whose army

Walker77 wrote: »

I am sure there are guys out there who are looking for the same thing.
http://www.belongto.org/ is a good way to meet people. I had a look at your twitter page really cool. I am a fan of Depeche mode.

Lol My twitter is practically Paramore fanboy ranting at the moment :-S I always thought I am too old for belongto

cartell_best

Ewan, If I could suggest something? Dublin is a crazy place, but good in soo many ways. If you're finding it tough to seek out that elusive partner, or soul mate or who you are looking for. If you're a frequent visitor to the gay scene in Dublin, then may be that's a sign to stretch the wings a bit. Would you try Cork, Waterford or Galway? " Being gay sucks sometimes "....it sure does, like most thing in life. From my own experience, don't look too hard for what you're looking for because you spend such concentration looking for what you want, that a lot gets lost within the haze of it all.

kingfisherdove

feel the exact same way ewan, you're not alone

Annasopra

Have you tried any clubs or groups?

Wet and Wild -
https://m.facebook.com/groups/178305433321?refid=54

Emeral warriors www.ewrfc.ie

Dublin devils https://m.facebook.com/dublindevilsfc?id=1168378461&_rdr

Duvlin gay mens chorus https://m.facebook.com/DublinGayMensChorus?id=259660330781093&_rdr

IDGTF ( volunteering opportunities)
http://www.gaytheatre.ie/

Gloria
http://www.gloria.ie/

Dining out
http://www.diningoutireland.org/

Out and about
http://www.gay-hiking.org/

DIGS
www.meetup.com/dublin-international-gay-social/

Coming out, being out
http://www.meetup.com/Coming-out-and-Being-out-Meetup/

Will add more tomorrow

Barna77

Good luck op, good luck.

And have lots of patience....

floggg

Biting my tongue....

Tainor

I think there are quite a few people on the forum here that have the same view as the OP, including myself.

I guess if we got together we won't be a minority...I suppose it is hard because none of us can immediately tell what the person across is like in a gay venue. And since we all have somewhat of mixed experiences with The Scene...it leads to what we have now?

Trial & Fail seems to be too big of burden to try every time after a while...I suppose being gay does suck sometimes...and not in the good way!

ewan whose army

Tainor wrote: »

I think there are quite a few people on the forum here that have the same view as the OP, including myself.

I guess if we got together we won't be a minority...I suppose it is hard because none of us can immediately tell what the person across is like in a gay venue. And since we all have somewhat of mixed experiences with The Scene...it leads to what we have now?

Trial & Fail seems to be too big of burden to try every time after a while...I suppose being gay does suck sometimes...and not in the good way!

True, I don't know if its me but I have lost count of the amount of times I have been asked "Top or Bottom" by creepy guys in places

Annasopra

mango salsa wrote: »

Have you tried any clubs or groups?

Yes/No? Should I not bother wasting my time digging out this information? I could spend an hour of my time tomorrow digging more information out. Is there any point?

ewan whose army

I

mango salsa wrote: »

Yes/No? Should I not bother wasting my time digging out this information? I could spend an hour of my time tomorrow digging more information out. Is there any point?

Well there is, I just need to meet some people :-) Its so lonely



Thanks

Annasopra

ewan whose army wrote: »

I just need to meet some people :-)

Thats what I gave you the list above!

I'm sure there will be plenty of people at the meet up next Friday

tster

Hey OP!

I remember when I started off in this it seemed the same. I remember a guy tellin me he was a "top guy" n I thought he meant that he was sound....little did i know... But you're far from the only one in your mindset, best advice would be to go to the meetup next week. They're'll be loadsa lads there and they're all sound enough!!

ewan whose army

tster wrote: »

Hey OP!

I remember when I started off in this it seemed the same. I remember a guy tellin me he was a "top guy" n I thought he meant that he was sound....little did i know... But you're far from the only one in your mindset, best advice would be to go to the meetup next week. They're'll be loadsa lads there and they're all sound enough!!

Which Meetup? There are a few?

floggg

Tainor wrote: »

I think there are quite a few people on the forum here that have the same view as the OP, including myself.

I guess if we got together we won't be a minority...I suppose it is hard because none of us can immediately tell what the person across is like in a gay venue. And since we all have somewhat of mixed experiences with The Scene...it leads to what we have now?

Trial & Fail seems to be too big of burden to try every time after a while...I suppose being gay does suck sometimes...and not in the good way!

Given how many of you there are, ever think you aren't a minority?

And if girls were only ever to meet guys in coppers, do you think they'd have any better opinion of straight men?

Hopefully these meets will start to give people a better view of gay men. If you're only interacting with gay men in places where people are generally looking to get the leg over, of course you're going to think that's all they are interested in.

If I'm single, drunk and in a night club late at night I'm probably looking to get laid too. I certainly amnt looking for love.

And if your looking for love in a night club, then maybe gay men aren't the problem, your expectations are.

mango salsa wrote: »

Yes/No? Should I not bother wasting my time digging out this information? I could spend an hour of my time tomorrow digging more information out. Is there any point?

I think these things are as much about a rant as anything else.



OP, I think you need to look at where your trying to eat guys and whether your expectations are reasonable, or if there is something you should be different.

Are clubs your only interaction with the gay community? Do you think that's the best place to form an opinion of gay men.

Yea, being gay can suck sometimes. But not because of other gay men. As somebody who made an effort to get involved in aspects of the "scene" or "community" outside of drunken nights out, I can tell you that there is plenty of great gay men out there, plenty of whom are into monagamy, commitment, romance etc (lots of whom are on here apparently).

If you're not willing to get out and make an effort, you can't expect to see much reward.

manic mailman

Come along to the meet up! Be graaaand

mr.anonymous

I must say I'm suprised at the tone of some of these replies.

Just because everyone on this forum may be gay, does not mean that they all have the same experience, whether that be in relation to meeting people or other things.

What people are looking for and their situation is always unique. I personally don't take the 'get up off your arse and try these social groups' approach too well. It is not that easy. Those groups do not suit everyone. I do not recommend belongto either from my personal experience.

I understand what the OP's problem is. I tried gay clubs (student nights). Nice for a drunken shift, but to find someone to be friends with or more, I think they're not suitable.

I read the OP's problem, and those similar to it, as loneliness rather than looking for someone who doesn't want NSA. There is another underlying problem. I experience it every day.

Every person my age I talk to online experiences the same thing. Perhaps those who dismiss this type of thread do not know their comfort.

OP,
I recommend you try the meet-up on the forum and avoid places like the Dragon.
Know you're not alone.

floggg

It's certainly not a case of not knowing my own comfort. I went through this all last year, coming out at 27 and having to force myself out of my comfort zone and into new situations to meet new people.

I hated having to do it at the time, and felt resentful that I should have to go out and start over, to make a second group of friends, and have to start from scratch almost. And it was far from easy, I had to force myself to do it.

But I knew that in the end it would be worth it. I had tried going out to clubs, and all I got was a few drunken kisses or shags. And I knew from the off that's all I would get if it was the only approach I took. I tried the online stuff, but I knew that my own nervousness and the limitations of online dating meant I wouldn't get far there.

So I interacted, I went to meets (not here, but similar ones), and I joined up wit a sporting club. It was hard at first but I met people, got to know them and gained confidence in myself and the scene.

And that meant I was able to go out with a healthy attitude to meet people. If I went to a club I knew not to have unrealistic expectations of what to find. And if I met pople online, I know on what terms it should be, who was worth my time and who wasn't, and how to approach it.

Now, I've met some great gay guys, many of them in committed relationships, dated a few people and met my amazing boyfriend of 4 months. And most of the people I went on dates with wanted something serious, not (just) a bit of "fun."

I never would have met my bf if I didn't take a chance and put myself out there, and unless I had an open mind about the guys I'd meet. On paper, he wasn't my type (looks or personality), but he seemed nice and I thought why not give it a shot and see what happens. Worst that happens is a bad date and we both move on.

Thankfully, because I was willing to put in a bit of effort and to have an open mind, I ended up meeting a great guy and I've never been happier. If I hadn't forced myself to do all I did last year, I'd never be where I am now.

And one group may not suit you, but another will. Even it you don't necessarily love everything about the group, you might meet somebody you get along with - as a friend as much as anything else. I think making a few gay friends is an imperative, if even just to have somebody to go out with, but more importantly to see that gay men are real people with the same wants and needs as everybody else.

You won't see that online or on a Saturday morning at 2am. At that hour people aren't really looking for anything more than a good night. Try meeting some gay men at 3pm on a Saturday afternoon though and they will be different people.

And if I'm coming across as hostile, it's because I resent when people make generalisations about gay men (which includes myself by impliction) without ever makinga genuine effort to get to know us.

I also think people don't get the irony of claiming gay men are only interested in one thing (sex), when they seem to only want to meet or interact with gay men for one thing (to find a boyfriend). More often than not their problem is that they confine themselves to only certain limited mediums or locations to meet somebody, have very unrealistic expectations about what they can achieve in those locations, and then blame gay men generally for their failures, rather than consider whether there is anything wrong with their approach.

Annasopra

mr.anonymous wrote: »

I must say I'm suprised at the tone of some of these replies.

Just because everyone on this forum may be gay, does not mean that they all have the same experience, whether that be in relation to meeting people or other things.

What people are looking for and their situation is always unique. I personally don't take the 'get up off your arse and try these social groups' approach too well. It is not that easy. Those groups do not suit everyone. I do not recommend belongto either from my personal experience.

I understand what the OP's problem is. I tried gay clubs (student nights). Nice for a drunken shift, but to find someone to be friends with or more, I think they're not suitable.

I read the OP's problem, and those similar to it, as loneliness rather than looking for someone who doesn't want NSA. There is another underlying problem. I experience it every day.

Every person my age I talk to online experiences the same thing. Perhaps those who dismiss this type of thread do not know their comfort.

OP,
I recommend you try the meet-up on the forum and avoid places like the Dragon.
Know you're not alone.

I'm sorry that you had bad experiences with belong to.

I tried in my post above to provide a large and diverse range of different groups so that the OP might be able to look at something that suits him. Of course loneliness is a problem. It's a problem for the OP, for you and indeed for me. The thing is though it will always be a problem if you don't do something about it. I accept that that is not easy. I don't find it easy.

I apologise for being a bit narky in my second response - I just wasn't sure if my first response was being ignored. I also apologise if you thought I was being dismissive. That was not my intention at all. If I was being dismissive I wouldn't have bothered replying at all.

ewan whose army

manic mailman wrote: »

Come along to the meet up! Be graaaand

Which meetup???

floggg wrote: »

Hopefully these meets will start to give people a better view of gay men. If you're only interacting with gay men in places where people are generally looking to get the leg over, of course you're going to think that's all they are interested in.

If I'm single, drunk and in a night club late at night I'm probably looking to get laid too. I certainly amnt looking for love.

And if your looking for love in a night club, then maybe gay men aren't the problem, your expectations are.

Well they are, its probably because I have only been out for a few months, before that I lived in a very conservative part of the UK with alot of homophobic idiots around. Since it was a small town, I was paranoid of getting outed if someone I know saw me at the only gay bar in town. It look me ages to tell my parents and make them accept me. So I am kinda new to the whole thing.

mango salsa wrote: »

I tried in my post above to provide a large and diverse range of different groups so that the OP might be able to look at something that suits him. Of course loneliness is a problem. It's a problem for the OP, for you and indeed for me. The thing is though it will always be a problem if you don't do something about it. I accept that that is not easy. I don't find it easy.

I apologise for being a bit narky in my second response - I just wasn't sure if my first response was being ignored. I also apologise if you thought I was being dismissive. That was not my intention at all. If I was being dismissive I wouldn't have bothered replying at all.

Don't be, I just took ages to reply

tster

There's a meetup thread (meetup 3.0) and I think next Friday has been kinda settled on. Great bunch of lads and the last one was right craic!!

kingfisherdove

The best advice I can give Ewan on your original question is be patient and stay true to yourself and YOUR values. It's easy to get discouraged, I think some of us are just unlucky and don't meet the most ideal people at the crucial time of first experiencing the gay community. And unfortunately this in itself leaves not scars but ill-memories and you begin to think all these people are the same; self centred, only after one thing and shallow. I was unlucky to come accross this and very pushy and forceful people early on. But I have, because of it, become stronger and been able to recognize what exactly I want. As P!nk says you gotta get up and try, try, try. Waiting is the name of the game, but the Meetup is a great place to start, it's not like other groups. And by the way it's growing numbers there'll probably be 25 there this friday And sorry to Flogg and Mango for misinterpreting other forums and reacting very passionately, it's just I'm still weary because of my first brushes with the community from groups; I'm glad Floggg that you have had a different experience!

1ZRed

Another headwreck of the same old "I can't find anyone" thread.

I had my own notions but there came a time where I had to take a step back, cop onto myself and grow up for my own good. I'm only 18, and by just looking at my straight friends, I'm nothing special in the ways of my maturity when looking at relationships, but why is the gap so great with certain gay men?

There's a reason I'm not too keen on other gay guys my age as they're usually closeted, full of insecurity and have these distorted notions about gay life and gay lads in general.

I figure maybe that's why the vast majority of my circle of friends consists of straight lads. Though I have met quite a few great gay guys along with way with an easy going attitude towards stuff like this, very much like a straight guy would view relationships and life, only that they were gay obviously. Some were my age in fact and it was so refreshing.

Why is it that some lads in their early 20's haven't come to the same realisations that they also came to?

You could talk about loneliness or being cut off from urban areas, but eh, so am I. Not much of an argument there in fairness.
Nearly all of you would be based in Dublin, so you'd have far more of an advantage in meeting guys than I would. Therefore I don't think it's an issue of other guys, it's an issue of your attitudes on the subject.

If you've ever hung around After Hours the thread about nice guys finishing last and women only wanting assholes while the nice guys always get left in the dust springs up fairly frequently.

This is like the gay version of that.

Ultimately what those threads boil down to is men having these notions and delusions and they blame women for their own shortcomings. It's always how they go down, I'll even link to a recent one.

If one of my mates was in my ear constantly whining, without taking my advice, I'd tell him to shut up about it as he'd have no excuse for not trying and I wouldn't put up with it.

And this is all coming down to what has been said and pointed out here by people numerous times before, just because someone is out to pull and to have a good night, same as all young straight guys in Ireland btw, doesn't mean that's just it.
You never know what could happen and you could really hit it off. I know this because it's happened to me enough times for me to think it's common.
These were lads that like any normal young male, wanted a good night and a laugh, but always had it in the back of their heads to give it a chance if they hit it off with someone.

Sorry to break it to you, but that's how most guys gay or straight behave. Where you're going wrong is cutting all that potential out as 'just sex' because you're 'wanting more', thinking that that route is an automatic dead end in achieving that.
Just because a guy might be up for a shag doesn't mean that's all he wants, and I know for a fact that you all assume that because you're hardly going to go asking him what his full intentions are.

Again, a very simple solution to the problem is to go out with an open mind with the main objective being enjoying yourself, with no plans of snagging a boyfriend, and having a laugh along the way.
Throw your number out and if things happen to lead to a night in the sack and it feels good, then so what? Don't necessarily pull back if you think "this lad is doing it for me" just because things are naturally progressing that direction.
That could mean nothing but sex but the ball is in your court to say "that was a laugh, want to try it out again sometime?". If that works then great, if not, well you tried at least and you can know you're trying out all your options.

I think many lads here complaining aren't taking much initiative at all and expect some guy to fall onto their laps and openly ask them to be their boyfriend. I'd sooner pull a rainbow out of my ass before that'd ever happen in reality. That would go for the straight world too btw.

Seriously, relax, try out all your options, keep a good, positive attitude, and for the love of feck, keep an open mind to everything.

That broadens your chances infinitely and gives you the best chance of getting what you want in the end. It's really just that simple.




Apologies for the length of this, but I hope that this argument can be laid to rest once and for all.

kingfisherdove

thanks for the really sensitive response IZRED it's extremely helpful! :P If you're just gonna pick on us, criticize us and judge our opinion, why do you comment at all?

Annasopra

A lot of what you are saying 1zred is perfectly valid but different people have different coping and accepting skills. Not everyone is automatically 100% comfortable once they come out. In fact even you yourself are not 100% comfortable with coming out to family. There are also different stages of coming out. Some people have only just literally come out to themselves.

Also internalised homophobia is a serious issue that shouldn't be ignored. A lot of us grow up hearing messages that being lesbian/gay/bi/trans is wrong. We hear messages in school from other kids, from the teachers, we hear things from our parents, families, friends and we take those messages on board. For some people this can mean years of self hatred and low self esteem. I'm not saying this happens to everyone. I know that many lgbt people grow up into happy/healthy adults but a lot of us don't because of internalised homophobia and transphobia.

I think the advice from floggg and yourself is very good and I agree with what you are saying but I do think that we need to be aware that for some people self acceptance is a much longer journey.

kingfisherdove

Don't get me wrong I actually agree with a lot of what IZRED has said especially the later but it's just his approach and the dismissal and putting down of others opinions and insensitivity to the issue that I find non constructive and quite irritating to say the least. And it kinda makes all the valid points he makes tainted

ewan whose army

mango salsa wrote: »

Also internalised homophobia is a serious issue that shouldn't be ignored. A lot of us grow up hearing messages that being lesbian/gay/bi/trans is wrong. We hear messages in school from other kids, from the teachers, we hear things from our parents, families, friends and we take those messages on board. For some people this can mean years of self hatred and low self esteem. I'm not saying this happens to everyone. I know that many lgbt people grow up into happy/healthy adults but a lot of us don't because of internalised homophobia and transphobia.

Yup Internalized homophobia has ruined a chunk of my life, posh catholic school is not a great environment for a gay teenager, especially their fail of a sex ed class in year 7.

Getting beaten up for being "gay" looking especially if you are actually gay kinda dents your self esteem a bit. It look me 10 years to actually accept it and come out. But the process repressing it made me very ill (It ended up with me in hospital, thats what it can do to a person).

My parents regret sending me to a Catholic school (they had enough problems from relative's disdain at me becoming a catholic at 13) and they wish they had just sent me to the bog standard Secular place.

Anyway that is why I am this way

jaffacakesyum

I think the point here is that you can't generalise all gay men to only be in to NSA and never want relationships. The whole "is it weird that I'm only 20 but don't want NSA? Is there no other gay men like me?" is a bit offensive to read. Frankly, it's a ridiculous notion that you're the only gay man in the world who doesn't just want sex.

And I know this will come across as insensitive but that's not my intention. I actually understand what the OP and what the numerous other guys on here have been saying. I've been through - and am going through - it myself. But people who say "these social groups aren't for everyone" - if you don't go out and make an effort how do you expect to solve your situation? If you don't join social groups, go to meetups (like the one this Friday) and just continue going to gay clubs where let's face it, most people aren't there looking for a relationship, how do you expect anything to change? I'm not saying this to be narky I genuinely am curious - do you expect the perfect gay man to just fall into your lap while you're in on a Friday night watching tv??? And don't get me wrong, I found it really embarassing and cringey to go to these meetups because I'm not into the whole "gay and proud thing" or going somewhere with a big sign plastered on the window "GAY MEETUP HERE". It sucks. I'm not into that sort of thing, I just like socialising through the usual outlets.

And you guys are right, sometimes it does suck to be gay. Because LGBT are a minority, you don't meet the kind of people you want to meet in everyday life; well, not usually. And if you do you generally have to be 100% out. It's usually not like when you're straight and you meet someone through work or in a coffee shop or wherever. You have to go out and make the effort. If you're not prepared to do that, I don't believe you have the right to complain.

Anyway, to sum up, I have met some great LGBT people through various meetups and if nothing else I've gained friends. It may not have worked to solve my loneliness, still haven't found that special someone, but it sure as hell is a lot better than sitting on my ass at home not knowing a single other LGBT soul in the world and complaining that my life sucks. I got out there and did something about it and at least I've met some cool people and and had a bit of a laugh in the process

1ZRed

kingfisherdove wrote: »

Don't get me wrong I actually agree with a lot of what IZRED has said especially the later but it's just his approach and the dismissal and putting down of others opinions and insensitivity to the issue that I find non constructive and quite irritating to say the least. And it kinda makes all the valid points he makes tainted

That's me, I'm more tough love when it comes to issues like this -especially if they've been going on for a while, which they have recently.

I didn't think I was being overly insensitive at all, you're talking about trying to find a boyfriend, why would I need to be so sensitive considering it's not a very sensitive subject to begin with?

Internalised homophobia and self acceptance aside, which I agree with, but I don't think they need to be drawn into the discussion because what would that have to do with lads not being able to find a boyfriend?

I'm not putting anyone down, I'm just trying get people to realise something and take it easy.
It's been said countless times before by posters so it's nothing new that's being said, I just don't understand why it needs to be repeated so much because people won't listen.

kingfisherdove

People won't listen because in order for people to listen you have to reassure them and have a constructive tone. The tone is key, when you have an insulting tone, you lose the value of what you are trying to say. True it's not a sensitive issue but it relates to sensitive issues so you can't be so dismissing.

Rick_

Not surprised they are coming on to you, you're quite handsome!

manic mailman

A doozy of a thread!

OP, I suggest you come along to the next meetup as it's all good a place to start "the journey" for want of a better expression...

To the Mods: Considering this type of thread comes up frequently, perhaps a sticky for it could be made?

I'm assuming that sticky threads are probably intended to be for resource type threads/questions, etc but considering the amount of times this appears on this forum, mayhaps it could be thrown up there? Just a suggestion

ewan whose army

Paddy C wrote: »

Not surprised they are coming on to you, you're quite handsome!

Who's handsome? I have lost track of this thread now

floggg

I don't know where to begin on all that's been said.

Contrary to the impression you might have, I'm not insensitive and unfeeling to your plight, quite the opposite. The reason I'm posting here is because I do feel for your guys.

I am sympathetic to the difficulties people face when they first come out. It was only last year i went through it.

I think though that some people want to blame all their troubles on others and not want to look at themselves and consider how they contribute to the problem. And I think some people have something of a victim complex - that their failures or experiences aren't any reflection on them but on others. I don't mean to get personal, but I think thats particularly the case for you KFD.

You say or infer at various points that you have been unlucky in the guys/people you've met, and that I have been lucky with who I have. You also seem to have formed concrete and immoveable views of gay men/the gay community based on those experiences, and don't seem to want to shake them.

So the result is that you seem to have decided that the problem is entirely other people, not you, and that as all gay men are the same, there is no hope or point in trying anything different.

Contrary to what you appear to have assumed, it hasn't been all roses for me. I had a pretty tough time of it at points last year, both in trying to interact with new people and in meeting guys.

I forced myself to go to meets, events, and to join groups. The first few I went to weren't really for me, though I did meet some good people in them. But I knew that it was unreasonable for me to expect to walk into a room and to just click with everybody, or that anything would be an easy fit.

So I was willing to try a few different groups until I found people I could gel with and a group where I felt comfortable. And now i am finally comfortable on the scene and in my surroundings.

Also, I had bad experiences myself with dating and meeting people.

I think when you first come out, it can be hard both to meet guys and manage your own expectations. After being alone for all your life, and missing out on the usual dating experiences that young people should have, you feel that all you want is to have somebody special in your life.

Often, and definitely in my cases, the difficulties with meeting somebody can be compounded by that inexperience. You don't have the experience to deal with certain situations, or to learn where somebody isn't right for you, or is only using you.

And that is fair enough, and natural. The problem is when you decide to write off men completely, rather than stopping and trying to learn from the situation, and to consider how much you might have contributed to the situation yourself - for example by letting yourself get into a position whereby you can be taken advantage of in the first place without knowing what the other person is really like.

And that's not a criticism. It's only natural that you might be a little bit innocent or naive in terms of dating when you first start out. You have to take these knocks to learn from them and to develop the skills you need to navigate relationships properly.

Contrary to your assumptions regarding my relative luck, I had a few "relationships" when i first started dating that didn't go well. Probably not the same experiences as you, but i had two different experiences where my own lack of experience and relative innocence had me in relationships which were unhealthy or where I was being strung along for different reasons.

And I realise I let that happen to myself. I didn't know any better at the time, but it was as much my fault for letting myself into that position as the other guys involved, who took advantage of my inexperience in different ways.

I learned from those experiences though, and I didn't take them to heart. And i didn't hold them against anybody or let them colour my view of men generally.

They are experiences which everybody has to go through, and you will find plenty of straight people who went through something similar. As long as you learn from them though, they will stand to your good in the long run.

What I get from your posts KFD is that you never seem to do any self analysis after your experiences, or consider what you might have done differently, whether you contributed to it etc. You blame others, and you feel sorry for yourself, but never (it would appear) what could I ask differently.

And from that position, you seem to have formed some pretty sweeping generalisations about gay men, which can be insulting.

I and others have reacted adversely to those generalisations. And I don't feel I have anything to apologise for in that regard.

You have criticised me as insensitive or rude, but do you appreciate its rude to say "all gay men are X, Y or Z?" Its offensive for numerous reasons - not just to have people making judgments or assumptions about me based on one aspect of my personality or to ignore my capacity to be an individual, but because its patently wrong, and doesn't come close to being an accurate reflection of who I am or who a lot of other gay men are.

I had previously tried to be patient with people and explain things, but sometimes people just repeat the same line over and over, and I do find it offensive and annoying.

Now, if you were to come on and just say you are finding it hard to meet people or related to other gay men without those generalisations, I would be happy to provide whatever advice I can. I can't however bite my tongue when I say the same cliches and generalizations spouted.

I'm sure you'd be equally annoyed if every straight person you met assumed you loved kylie, chick flicks and secretly dreamed of being a hairdresser immediately upon learning of your sexual orientation.


Lastly, regarding attitudes holding people back from finding somebody to love, I'll post the below which I came across lately:

Dear Bottom Whisperer,
I seem to have put together an amazing run, quite possibly a world record, of meeting guys who aren’t really looking to settle down and get serious. What does this mean and how do I attract these type of guys? A friend of mine suggested that these guys are just looking to date casually and have a little bit of fun but that isn’t really where my priorities are. I’d like to meet someone nice and get into a committed relationship. What am I doing wrong and where should I be looking for this illusive relationship focused man?
Help Educate Lovely Person

Greetings HELP!
I think your mindset here is a little bit of the problem. I don’t feel like you magically meet a nice guy who is ready to settle down because you woke up one morning and decided you were ready. And I think this attitude often comes off as desperate. What ever happened to just meeting someone and enjoying them without planning out the next 5 dates, 5 years, 15 year mortgage? It’s like people decide “I’m ready to settle down” and so they put forth that energy and are upset when others don’t find it attractive. You’re going about it the wrong way. Live your life, have fun, be interesting, go out with and kiss a bunch of dudes and have fun because one day when you’ve been with someone for a long time you are going to wonder if you had enough fun while you were single and then you are going to fill up my inbox with questions about how to maintain your relationship while trying to go back and have some of the fun you didn’t have when you were younger because you decided you were ready to settle down and have a relationship. Got me? Quit obsessing about being ready and go with the flow. I’ve never heard someone in an awesome relationship say “I was just ready and the next day we met and the rest is history” because it doesn’t happen like that. Save that sound decision-making for things like choosing cellular telephone plans and car loans and leave a little wiggle room, enthusiasm and imagination for matters of the heart. Best of luck!
- See more at: http://unicornbooty.com/blog/2013/02/21/the-bottom-whisperer-someone-to-love-me/#sthash.9MXI0vb1.dpuf

Something similar has been said on numerous occasions, but it bears repeating.

If my bf had told me on our first date he wanted serious commitment, I probably would have ran. Nobody wants that pressure when you are first getting to know somebody - you want to be able to get to know each other first before you decide whether you want to commit to a person, rather than having to make a judgment at an early stage.

Sorry if that long and lengthy, but banging out a long post seemed like a good excuse to be lazy and not to go to the gym.

And just to be crystal clear, that is in no way a personal attack, it's constructive criticism.

floggg

ewan whose army wrote: »

Who's handsome? I have lost track of this thread now

I am. So my Mammy says anyway!

Annasopra

floggg wrote: »

I am.

agreed

Rick_

ewan whose army wrote: »

Who's handsome? I have lost track of this thread now

Sorry, I was replying to the original post, should have quoted it rather than just jumped in with a comment.

I mean you, Ewan.

ewan whose army

Paddy C wrote: »

Sorry, I was replying to the original post, should have quoted it rather than just jumped in with a comment.

I mean you, Ewan.

Really? Thanks

hide2013

what about these men makes them jerks in your eyes ewan?

lets be honest - when two ok looking gay men meet they do tend to consider what a bit of fun together would be like. if they are meeting in a recognised cruising spot (eg a gay bar) they may make a pass or even a grope. but the fact that they are open to sex does not make them jerks necessarily nor does acting on what they percieve as come on signals.

almost all gay men are interested in having sex with another attractive man but there is much more to them. if all you see is the "fancy you" signals you never get to find out what they are like when not cruising.

it seems a bit unreasonable for a man of your age whom i presume is reasonably attractive to expect to find attractive men who are out solely for a platonic relationship. at your age sex is never out of the picture.

Rick_

I imagine a good proportion of single guys and girls (gay and straight) go out at the weekend perhaps with the sole intention of finding a bit of fun or a hook up, and fair play to them, that's their prerogative. That's just not me. When I go out, (and admittedly, it's probably rather stupid of me to do so), I look for new friends initially and something more in the long run. I'm not interested in meeting someone for the first time in a bar and going home with them that night and shagging the life out of them. If I met the most handsome guy in the world in my eyes in a bar and he was coming on to me and we were having a great time, I still wouldn't go home with him that night for sex. I find that mindset pretty disgusting to be honest, but like I say, what others want to do is their choice and more power to them, it's just not for me.

I hardly think saying that expecting someone young with a bit of morals and standards in the gay would is "unreasonable". Perhaps finding someone who doesn't tar us all with the same brush is?

1ZRed

Paddy C wrote: »

I imagine a good proportion of single guys and girls (gay and straight) go out at the weekend perhaps with the sole intention of finding a bit of fun or a hook up, and fair play to them, that's their prerogative. That's just not me. When I go out, (and admittedly, it's probably rather stupid of me to do so), I look for new friends initially and something more in the long run. I'm not interested in meeting someone for the first time in a bar and going home with them that night and shagging the life out of them. If I met the most handsome guy in the world in my eyes in a bar and he was coming on to me and we were having a great time, I still wouldn't go home with him that night for sex. I find that mindset pretty disgusting to be honest, but like I say, what others want to do is their choice and more power to them, it's just not for me.

I hardly think saying that expecting someone young with a bit of morals and standards in the gay would is "unreasonable". Perhaps finding someone who doesn't tar us all with the same brush is?

Here, was with you until you started going on about morals and standards. I've had a decent share of hook ups and I've plenty of morals and standards to along with them.

ewan whose army

hide2013 wrote: »

what about these men makes them jerks in your eyes ewan?

lets be honest - when two ok looking gay men meet they do tend to consider what a bit of fun together would be like. if they are meeting in a recognised cruising spot (eg a gay bar) they may make a pass or even a grope. but the fact that they are open to sex does not make them jerks necessarily nor does acting on what they percieve as come on signals.

almost all gay men are interested in having sex with another attractive man but there is much more to them. if all you see is the "fancy you" signals you never get to find out what they are like when not cruising.

it seems a bit unreasonable for a man of your age whom i presume is reasonably attractive to expect to find attractive men who are out solely for a platonic relationship. at your age sex is never out of the picture.

The thing is , I have spent so much of my life doubting and self hating about my sexuality (Bullying etc.) that for a 22 year old I am very immature, I am a complete virgin, and I am scared of people taking advantage of me. I guess I may be reasonably attractive (since numerous people have told me) but I don't feel that way (if that makes any sense) and well I am scared that someone will just want to take advantage of me.

I regret not coming out sooner I really do. I wish I could be one of those confident guys who don't worry about stuff like that.

Maybe I am just over-thinking it, maybe I should just let a guy take me for a ride, as long as I am safe what is the worst that could happen?

paulmorro

ewan whose army wrote: »

The thing is , I have spent so much of my life doubting and self hating about my sexuality (Bullying etc.) that for a 22 year old I am very immature, I am a complete virgin, and I am scared of people taking advantage of me. I guess I may be reasonably attractive (since numerous people have told me) but I don't feel that way (if that makes any sense) and well I am scared that someone will just want to take advantage of me.

I regret not coming out sooner I really do. I wish I could be one of those confident guys who don't worry about stuff like that.

Maybe I am just over-thinking it, maybe I should just let a guy take me for a ride, as long as I am safe what is the worst that could happen?

Ok well don't go home with the first guy you see. It won't magically endow you with confidence and you may just be pissed off with yourself if you didn't really want to do it.

As has been mentioned above, clubs are a bad way to get to know people. Most people are out with their mates or on the pull. That doesn't make the latter jerks (that should be judged on more of a case by case basis), its just a handy place to try and score someone in the same way that Coppers is for a guy.

I did the same as you when I was coming out (at 27), usually in the Dragon on my own at one in the morning, not even knowing why I was there. The ass slapping etc isnt nice and it's demoralizing when you feel you're alone in the big gay world. It's not a place for a lot of newbies to get confidence in theirselves. I did that by making friends elsewhere, mainly by meeting people from another board an gay sports clubs (Took me a while to do the sports thing cause I had to get over my silly idea that the level of the club would be useless just cause it was full of gays).

That list Mango gave you isn't the full list of things you can do. Think of something you want to do, try it out. Lovely people in all the groups. The meet on Friday.... Messrs with a bunch you can get to know would be a hell of a lot less intimidating than the George or the Dragon. Get to know people these ways and get comfortable with what being gay really is (ie. normally people who happen to like the cock and not an scary seedy club world) and confidence in being a part of that should follow.

ewan whose army

paulmorro wrote: »

Ok well don't go home with the first guy you see. It won't magically endow you with confidence and you may just be pissed off with yourself if you didn't really want to do it.

As has been mentioned above, clubs are a bad way to get to know people. Most people are out with their mates or on the pull. That doesn't make the latter jerks (that should be judged on more of a case by case basis), its just a handy place to try and score someone in the same way that Coppers is for a guy.

I did the same as you when I was coming out (at 27), usually in the Dragon on my own at one in the morning, not even knowing why I was there. The ass slapping etc isnt nice and it's demoralizing when you feel you're alone in the big gay world. It's not a place for a lot of newbies to get confidence in theirselves. I did that by making friends elsewhere, mainly by meeting people from another board an gay sports clubs (Took me a while to do the sports thing cause I had to get over my silly idea that the level of the club would be useless just cause it was full of gays).

That list Mango gave you isn't the full list of things you can do. Think of something you want to do, try it out. Lovely people in all the groups. The meet on Friday.... Messrs with a bunch you can get to know would be a hell of a lot less intimidating than the George or the Dragon. Get to know people these ways and get comfortable with what being gay really is (ie. normally people who happen to like the cock and not an scary seedy club world) and confidence in being a part of that should follow.

Yeah I am going to go that meet on Friday.. I am 1/2 tempted to try wet and wild as well. I heard about a gay rugby club, but I suck at rugby (even though I love the sport) I haven't played it since I was at school so a good 6 years have past. (Since I got on the basketball team I had to do that exclusively)

I don't plan on sleeping with the first guy who asks, it was more that I should live a little. If a nice cute guy asks me to go home with him then I may consider it, but not anyone lol

Arse slapping gave me a shock the first time it happened to me :-S . I wear skinny pants and it happened within the first 5 mins of me entering the place. The guy behind the bar hadn't even finished pouring my beer out lol. I was shocked because it was well unexpected and I felt kinda objectified by it if that makes sense. I now know its not as bad as I thought at first since the bar tender said that "someone obviously agrees with me and thinks you are cute, chill out"

paulmorro

ewan whose army wrote: »

Yeah I am going to go that meet on Friday.. I am 1/2 tempted to try wet and wild as well. I heard about a gay rugby club, but I suck at rugby (even though I love the sport) I haven't played it since I was at school so a good 6 years have past. (Since I got on the basketball team I had to do that exclusively)

I don't plan on sleeping with the first guy who asks, it was more that I should live a little. If a nice cute guy asks me to go home with him then I may consider it, but not anyone lol

Arse slapping gave me a shock the first time it happened to me :-S . I wear skinny pants and it happened within the first 5 mins of me entering the place. The guy behind the bar hadn't even finished pouring my beer out lol. I was shocked because it was well unexpected and I felt kinda objectified by it if that makes sense. I now know its not as bad as I thought at first since the bar tender said that "someone obviously agrees with me and thinks you are cute, chill out"

Wet N Wild are good craic, pretty much do anything that exists outdoors. The Rugby club is Emerald Warriors. Sure send them a mail. They also have tag in the summer.

Annasopra

ewan whose army wrote: »

The thing is , I have spent so much of my life doubting and self hating about my sexuality (Bullying etc.) that for a 22 year old I am very immature, I am a complete virgin, and I am scared of people taking advantage of me. I guess I may be reasonably attractive (since numerous people have told me) but I don't feel that way (if that makes any sense) and well I am scared that someone will just want to take advantage of me.

I regret not coming out sooner I really do. I wish I could be one of those confident guys who don't worry about stuff like that.

Maybe I am just over-thinking it, maybe I should just let a guy take me for a ride, as long as I am safe what is the worst that could happen?

I think that perhaps in some ways you are overthinking things a bit. Firstly I think the majority of guys out on the scene are not jerks and secondly I think not all guys on the scene are only looking to have sex.

A lot of us have gone through difficult times growing up - you're not alone there.

Both floggggg and Paulmorro have explained how they were not always confident in themselves - how it took them time to come to terms with themselves; how they tried different things - meets on another site, sports club etc etc but importantly they didn't just go out on the scene, hate it and then decide never to do gay stuff again; both of them persisted - found stuff that interested them, found different websites and groups

When I read you saying that you wish you could be one of those confident guys - it really strikes me that - a) some of those "confident" guys were not always confident and b) wishing something doesn't make it happen - you have to actively work on this, you have to really try and push yourself outside of your comfort zone. As flogggg and paulmorro have said this is a difficult thing to do. But if you don't push those boundaries you will always be wishing.

As regards the list above there were a lot of things that are not there yet; running, squash, rowing, volunteering

floggg

Paddy C wrote: »

I imagine a good proportion of single guys and girls (gay and straight) go out at the weekend perhaps with the sole intention of finding a bit of fun or a hook up, and fair play to them, that's their prerogative. That's just not me. When I go out, (and admittedly, it's probably rather stupid of me to do so), I look for new friends initially and something more in the long run. I'm not interested in meeting someone for the first time in a bar and going home with them that night and shagging the life out of them. If I met the most handsome guy in the world in my eyes in a bar and he was coming on to me and we were having a great time, I still wouldn't go home with him that night for sex. I find that mindset pretty disgusting to be honest, but like I say, what others want to do is their choice and more power to them, it's just not for me.

I hardly think saying that expecting someone young with a bit of morals and standards in the gay would is "unreasonable". Perhaps finding someone who doesn't tar us all with the same brush is?

There's little point in inserting the politically correct "each to their own" spiel if your going to follow it up with words like "disgusting" or implying somebody who is open to a one night stand or hook-ups are immoral or don't have standards. At least if your going to pass judgment, be upfront about it .

As somebody who has happily had one night stands and meaningless sex, i certainly dont think I'm immoral, lacking in standards or have a disgusting mindset. I resent your suggestion to the contrary.

I respect your views on sex and dating, and you're fully entitled to whatever approach you want (as long as its consensual and responsible etc).

The judgmental attitude and misplaced sense of superiority, not so much.

floggg

ewan whose army wrote: »

Yeah I am going to go that meet on Friday.. I am 1/2 tempted to try wet and wild as well. I heard about a gay rugby club, but I suck at rugby (even though I love the sport) I haven't played it since I was at school so a good 6 years have past. (Since I got on the basketball team I had to do that exclusively)

I don't plan on sleeping with the first guy who asks, it was more that I should live a little. If a nice cute guy asks me to go home with him then I may consider it, but not anyone lol

Arse slapping gave me a shock the first time it happened to me :-S . I wear skinny pants and it happened within the first 5 mins of me entering the place. The guy behind the bar hadn't even finished pouring my beer out lol. I was shocked because it was well unexpected and I felt kinda objectified by it if that makes sense. I now know its not as bad as I thought at first since the bar tender said that "someone obviously agrees with me and thinks you are cute, chill out"

I've never got my ass slapped or grabbed in a gay bar. I must be doing something wrong. Though on one of my first nights in the George, I did have two guys fit over who "got me" right in front of me.

At the time, a ONS was exactly what I needed in terms of accepting and feeling good about the whole gay thing, so I made my choice and didn't look back.

I was very much the shy nervous guy when I started of, so I know exactly how you felt. I probably had a different attitude about these things to you, but as a then 26 year old with little to no love life up to that point, knowing I could "pull" and be the player if I wanted to did me a world of good!

I'm not exactly a poster boy for a smooth player now, but when I came out first I was very doubting myself and lacking in self confidence. I think though I came out of my shell a fair amount through a combination of forcing myself into new experiences and situations and surviving, and also realising that I no longer had to let people's opinions and judgments rule my life or determine how I lived my life.

I think interacting with other gay people and seeing they were all normal and there was nothing to be ashamed of about being gay also helped loads. So the meet would be good.

If you are Dublin based, then definitely join a sporting group. I don't know anything about the rugby team, but I'm sure they are very welcome regardless of standards.

If soccer is something you might be interested in either, the Dublin Devils are also very welcoming and have a number of social kick abound every week, where its more about showing up and having fun than being any good. The standard varies from very good to very bad so everybody can fit in.

As the weather improves there'll be more on and a few social events as well, so there's more to it than just soccer!

(See, I can be helpful too when needs be!)

1ZRed

mr.anonymous wrote: »

I must say I'm suprised at the tone of some of these replies.

Just because everyone on this forum may be gay, does not mean that they all have the same experience, whether that be in relation to meeting people or other things.

What people are looking for and their situation is always unique. I personally don't take the 'get up off your arse and try these social groups' approach too well. It is not that easy. Those groups do not suit everyone. I do not recommend belongto either from my personal experience.

I understand what the OP's problem is. I tried gay clubs (student nights). Nice for a drunken shift, but to find someone to be friends with or more, I think they're not suitable.

I read the OP's problem, and those similar to it, as loneliness rather than looking for someone who doesn't want NSA. There is another underlying problem. I experience it every day.

Every person my age I talk to online experiences the same thing. Perhaps those who dismiss this type of thread do not know their comfort.

OP,
I recommend you try the meet-up on the forum and avoid places like the Dragon.
Know you're not alone.

Can I ask why is it you don't recommend belongto? I know even just a few months back I would've hated the thoughts of it and being surrounded by gay people who wouldn't be anything like me as I wasn't like other gay men in my head, I was like a straight guy, only gay.

Stupid notion I've now come to realise, but point is, that mentality was like a road block that left me feeling at odds with other gay men as they were all so "gay", while I was different and not like that. Of course I've met far more gay men who were just like me, just normal lad's lads who are gay and it's broadened my mind and relaxed my view on things like this a lot. I think because of that realisation I'd be more able to benefit from it and not feel as awkward there.

I haven't been to a meeting but I wouldn't shoot it down or a gay club/society similar to it. I figure it'd be good to push my comfort zone -considering my close friends are all straight guys, and make a few good gay ones. Couldn't hurt me and over the next few months I might consider it. I know when I start college I will probably give it a glance.

In fact, I think I'll force myself along with it for a while even if I don't like it at the start. At least then if I'm finding it hard to find a boyfriend or make gay mates and I know I've done my best and tried my damnedest.

Couldn't hurt to try and broaden and diversify my circle of friends, and this is coming from a guy in a nearly exclusively straight social circle, so I'm not in much comfort in the sense that it won't be easy to diversify it and immerse myself head first into these LGBT groups.

ewan whose army

1ZRed wrote: »

Can I ask why is it you don't recommend belongto? I know even just a few months back I would've hated the thoughts of it and being surrounded by gay people who wouldn't be anything like me as I wasn't like other gay men in my head, I was like a straight guy, only gay.

Stupid notion I've now come to realise, but point is, that mentality was like a road block that left me feeling at odds with other gay men as they were all so "gay", while I was different and not like that. Of course I've met far more gay men who were just like me, just normal lad's lads who are gay and it's broadened my mind and relaxed my view on things like this a lot. I think because of that realisation I'd be more able to benefit from it and not feel as awkward there.

I haven't been to a meeting but I wouldn't shoot it down or a gay club/society similar to it. I figure it'd be good to push my comfort zone -considering my close friends are all straight guys, and make a few good gay ones. Couldn't hurt me and over the next few months I might consider it. I know when I start college I will probably give it a glance.

In fact, I think I'll force myself along with it for a while even if I don't like it at the start. At least then if I'm finding it hard to find a boyfriend or make gay mates and I know I've done my best and tried my damnedest.

Couldn't hurt to try and broaden and diversify my circle of friends, and this is coming from a guy in a nearly exclusively straight social circle, so I'm not in much comfort in the sense that it won't be easy to diversify it and immerse myself head first into these LGBT groups.

Isn't 22 too old for Belong to?