M6 Briarhill Roundabout

R1200RT

Anyone know what's going on at the roundabout in Briarhill at the start/end of the M6 motorway? There's been work going on there for the last couple of weeks, with no real sign of any potential improvements.

confuseddotcom

Alas don't know what's going on. Sorry. But by any chance would ya be a newb to Galway and its' arra twill be grand tendencies?!

R1200RT

No, sorry. Just interested in roundabout's...

ethernet

Are they not making it smaller at last? It was completely oversized and the lanes were so tight around it.

R1200RT

Actually I'm secretly hoping they put traffic lights on the roundabout. God I love traffic lights on roundabouts.

Mrs OBumble

ethernet wrote: »

Are they not making it smaller at last? It was completely oversized and the lanes were so tight around it.

Pretty sure you're right.

I hate RABs in general, but don't mind that one :-)

Zzippy

AFAIK they're enlarging the outer perimeter to make the lanes wider and not as tight - there have been a number of bad accidents. I think Fey or another poster on here had personal experience of this...

Sponge Bob

and slathering on 360 degrees of antiskid I hope.

Fey!

Zzippy wrote: »

AFAIK they're enlarging the outer perimeter to make the lanes wider and not as tight - there have been a number of bad accidents. I think Fey or another poster on here had personal experience of this...

...and I haven't been able to pass it since without cringing!!!

I was one of the few who didn't actually hit the roundabout itself (which, going by the amount of times the signage has been knocked, have been several dozen); I managed to drop down the embankment as you exit the roundabout on the town side!

Iwannahurl

Sponge Bob wrote: »

and slathering on 360 degrees of antiskid I hope.

I've noticed that anti-skid surface treatment around a number of Galway roundabouts, though not at other junctions in the city.

In some cases the 'wearing course' is bumpy tarmac, which I suspect is intended to have the same effect.

Which prompts me to ask: why do roundabouts in particular need antiskid treatment, whether 360 degrees or otherwise?

R1200RT

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Which prompts me to ask: why do roundabouts in particular need antiskid treatment, whether 360 degrees or otherwise?

If you had the time to observe any of Galway's roundabouts at 3 o'clock in the morning, all would become clear.....

yer man!

Making the driving lanes around the roundabout larger along with the entrances and exits to it.

Iwannahurl

R1200RT wrote: »

If you had the time to observe any of Galway's roundabouts at 3 o'clock in the morning, all would become clear.....

Gwan, save me having to get out of bed at that ungodly hour. What's the story?

Stench Blossoms

People 'drifting' around them.

Iwannahurl

Ah, OK.

Anti-skid surface and caltrops needed then.

Iwannahurl

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I've noticed that anti-skid surface treatment around a number of Galway roundabouts, though not at other junctions in the city.

In some cases the 'wearing course' is bumpy tarmac, which I suspect is intended to have the same effect.

Which prompts me to ask: why do roundabouts in particular need antiskid treatment, whether 360 degrees or otherwise?

The new junctions that replaced the old N6 RAB's all have this coating as do several other junctions around the town.

One RAB entrance badly in need of it is here (blue van). Its next to impossible to move onto the RAB promptly when its wet without getting wheel spin

Iwannahurl

Deleted User wrote: »

The new junctions that replaced the old N6 RAB's all have this coating as do several other junctions around the town.

One RAB entrance badly in need of it is here (blue van). Its next to impossible to move onto the RAB promptly when its wet without getting wheel spin

Perhaps anti-skid is now a standard element of the design spec of any new junction.

It may have to be 'retro-fitted' to existing junctions, in which case it's not universal and as far as I can see there is no clear pattern to its application.

If wheel spin is a problem when entering the Kirwan Roundabout from the N6 as you describe, what about braking at that spot? Are there vehicles skidding and entering the roundabout in an uncontrolled manner?

Was that happening at Coolagh as well?

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Perhaps anti-skid is now a standard element of the design spec of any new junction.

It may have to be 'retro-fitted' to existing junctions, in which case it's not universal and as far as I can see there is no clear pattern to its application.

Yes it is part of the new specs and there is a clear pattern of application if one knows when the new specs came into force - the junctions done since the new specs came into for have this surface.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

If wheel spin is a problem when entering the Kirwan Roundabout from the N6 as you describe, what about braking at that spot? Are there vehicles skidding and entering the roundabout in an uncontrolled manner?

I haven't noticed any problems down there under breaking, but I have noticed on numerous roads (across the country) that it's easy to get wheel spin in wet conditions.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Was that happening at Coolagh as well?

It's bad for wheel spin if the road is damp.

I've noticed they've also put in yellow rumble strips on the approaches. I think this style is ineffective and there's a slightly different style that has several narrow strips covering the same area which is far more effective in making the driver slow down.

Unrealistic

Iwannahurl wrote: »

If wheel spin is a problem when entering the Kirwan Roundabout from the N6 as you describe, what about braking at that spot? Are there vehicles skidding and entering the roundabout in an uncontrolled manner?

That is definitely a problem spot. I've experienced wheel spin/loss of traction there but not at other roundabout entrances (even other entrances to that same roundabout). I've never seen anyone not braking in time but the line of sight there means that you don't know whether the roundabout is clear or not until you are very close so it's not one that lends itself to approaching at speed and sailing through. There are also pedestrian lights right on that entrance which might further discourage high speed approaches.

jewelstar

Unrealistic wrote: »

That is definitely a problem spot. I've experienced wheel spin/loss of traction there but not at other roundabout entrances (even other entrances to that same roundabout). I've never seen anyone not braking in time but the line of sight there means that you don't know whether the roundabout is clear or not until you are very close so it's not when that lends itself to approaching at speed and sailing through. There are also pedestrian lights right on that entrance which might further discourage high speed approaches.

Thought it was just my car at this spot. It's actually dangerous enough if as is the case at peak time traffic trying to get onto the roundabout quickly, the car is at a momentary standstill halfway out on the outside lane before eventually getting to grip.
Never had an issue stopping at it though.

yer man!

jewelstar wrote: »

Thought it was just my car at this spot. It's actually dangerous enough if as is the case at peak time traffic trying to get onto the roundabout quickly, the car is at a momentary standstill halfway out on the outside lane before eventually getting to grip.
Never had an issue stopping at it though.

Same problem with my car, the traction control can barely cope with the surface it's so bad. The council put on a coating about 6 months ago, it lasted like 2 weeks before completely wearing off. I doubt they will do anything substantial with this road seeing as they want to get rid of the entire RAB.

Sponge Bob

Deleted User wrote: »

One RAB entrance badly in need of it is here (blue van). Its next to impossible to move onto the RAB promptly when its wet without getting wheel spin

Totally agree, cannot get any power down there if any way damp or you will spin. It is the worst RAB entrance I know of in Galway. That leads to unnecessary tailbacks towards the Tuam Road too, esp in the evenings.

Mr Man

Deleted User wrote: »

The new junctions that replaced the old N6 RAB's all have this coating as do several other junctions around the town.

One RAB entrance badly in need of it is here (blue van). Its next to impossible to move onto the RAB promptly when its wet without getting wheel spin

That exit is hilarious (in a bad way). All the cars I've owned had wheel spin issues with it.

I now automatically soft accelerate away from there.

For me, the question is how did they get the design of the M6 RAB so wrong?

They are spending a pretty penny on the remedial works so somebody somewhere messed up.

Iwannahurl

Zzippy wrote: »

AFAIK they're enlarging the outer perimeter to make the lanes wider and not as tight - there have been a number of bad accidents. I think Fey or another poster on here had personal experience of this...

Not as tight -- can you elaborate?

Sponge Bob

Try going around parallel to an artic and you might understand.

Iwannahurl

Obviously if they're modifying it by reducing the centre island and widening the lanes then they've identified those elements as problematic. Has the carriageway width been identified as the main cause of the allegedly high number of collisions there?

R1200RT

Mr Man wrote: »

For me, the question is how did they get the design of the M6 RAB so wrong?

They are spending a pretty penny on the remedial works so somebody somewhere messed up.

Brilliantly (and subtly) brought back on topic Mr Man!

For a new road design who is taking responsibility for getting it so wrong? The Designers; or those who approved the design?

The Contractor who built the M6 did so using an approved design (even if he designed it); then he built it; and then he charges a toll to finance it.

Any subsequent alteration to the design post-construction would have to be instructed by the Employer (Council) as it is outside the scope of the original Contract. If the Contractor is instructed to do the work he is obviously entitled to reimbursement from the person/authority issuing the instruction.

So - who has been penalized for getting the original design wrong? The Contractor - no; the Designers - no; the Council's Design Consultants - no; the Council - no.

The honest hard-working taxpayer who is now being shafted for what should be unnecessary remedial works? - BINGO!

antoobrien

R1200RT wrote: »

For a new road design who is taking responsibility for getting it so wrong? The Designers; or those who approved the design?!

It was got wrong because it was designed to be built alongside GCOB. By the time it was clear that it wasn't going ahead it was too late to change because it was finished.

So blame the anti-bypass crowd before you blame builders that did what they were told to do.

Iwannahurl

antoobrien wrote: »

It was got wrong because it was designed to be built alongside GCOB. By the time it was clear that it wasn't going ahead it was too late to change because it was finished.

So blame the anti-bypass crowd before you blame builders that did what they were told to do.

What is the relevance of the GCOB and the "anti-bypass crowd" to the physical carriageway width of a roundabout that is reportedly "too tight"?

Would the Coolagh roundabout, with the same design, have somehow been 'looser' with the GCOB in place?

R1200RT

True. The GCOB is always welcome, but it has no relevance to the design or configuration of the roundabout currently undergoing re-work at considerable expense.

The fact is that this expense could have been avoided through proper (and accountable) design and planning.

Iwannahurl

Are there any crucial design differences between the M6 Coolagh Roundabout and this one at the end of the M2 near Ashbourne?

Cleahaigh

R1200RT wrote: »

Brilliantly (and subtly) brought back on topic Mr Man!

For a new road design who is taking responsibility for getting it so wrong? The Designers; or those who approved the design?

The Contractor who built the M6 did so using an approved design (even if he designed it); then he built it; and then he charges a toll to finance it.

Any subsequent alteration to the design post-construction would have to be instructed by the Employer (Council) as it is outside the scope of the original Contract. If the Contractor is instructed to do the work he is obviously entitled to reimbursement from the person/authority issuing the instruction.

So - who has been penalized for getting the original design wrong? The Contractor - no; the Designers - no; the Council's Design Consultants - no; the Council - no.

The honest hard-working taxpayer who is now being shafted for what should be unnecessary remedial works? - BINGO!

The original design was not what was constructed by the PPP co. Presumably in an effort to keep costs down, they reduced the width of the roundabout and put in the minimum amount of signs and lines required by the basic design standards.

The current remedial works are essentially retrofitting most (though not all) of the original design.

Fey!

Interestingly, when I had my crash there the assessor for the insurance company commented that there was an issue with the road surface there which would have contributed to my crash. Unfortunately he refrained from making the same comment in his official report.

At the time I contact the city council, the NRA and the RSA about this, but each one believed that it had nothing to do with them.

I also looked to the Gardai for stats on accidents there, but they couldn't give me any; part of this was due to pending prosecutions, and I believe that a lot of the accidents there may not have been reported. The council/NRA should know how often they've had to replace the signage, though!!!

biko

So, back to the M6 Briarhill Roundabout. Is work finished?

antoobrien

biko wrote: »

So, back to the M6 Briarhill Roundabout. Is work finished?

No

R1200RT

Hard to say - was there this morning and they were spreading grass seed on the verges which would indicate the works are all but finished.

Definitely cannot see what benefit the works achieved yet!?

Unrealistic

R1200RT wrote: »

Hard to say - was there this morning and they were spreading grass seed on the verges which would indicate the works are all but finished.

Definitely cannot see what benefit the works achieved yet!?

It seems to be wider, no?

antoobrien

Unrealistic wrote: »

It seems to be wider, no?

It's wider, but one has to look closely to see how much it has been widened. Before the works it didn't look like two vehicles could be on it at the same time, now it does. There approaches have also been subtly altered.

JupiterKid

A free flow flyover should have been built at this junction allowing traffic from the M6 to Galway city to avoid the roundabout altogether.

But then, it wasn't envisaged that the GCOB would have been delayed for as long as it has.

Iwannahurl

Anywhere else in the country where the NRA constructed such a flyover at the termination of a motorway? Just wondering.

biko

Feel free to use Transport or Roads for general discussion.
For this forum please stay on topic, in this case the works on the roundabout.

lucianot

Also I noticed some works on the segment going from the Galway Clinic roundabout to the M6 one, I hope they are building a pedestrian bridge as it is much needed in my opinion.

Sponge Bob

lucianot wrote: »

Also I noticed some works on the segment going from the Galway Clinic roundabout to the M6 one, I hope they are building a pedestrian bridge as it is much needed in my opinion.

Describe these 'works' for us and I'll have a look see.

Unless they were putting in concrete foundations for bridge supports then probably not, I never heard of such a plan.

Might they be spreading some spare leftover antiskid in areas where pedestrians are vulnerable to being hit by a bike or truck that could not stop perhaps?????

antoobrien

lucianot wrote: »

Also I noticed some works on the segment going from the Galway Clinic roundabout to the M6 one, I hope they are building a pedestrian bridge as it is much needed in my opinion.

At the Collagh roundabout? Nope no need for pedestrian facilities there and GCC aren't in the habit of putting in pedestrian bridges. This is probably part of the "southern" approach works for the Coolagh roundabout.

snubbleste

lucianot wrote: »

Also I noticed some works on the segment going from the Galway Clinic roundabout to the M6 one, I hope they are building a pedestrian bridge as it is much needed in my opinion.

There is a big digger thingimajik digging into the embankment rock halfway between Clinic and Coolagh roundabout.

Sponge Bob

Signage to advise of a change of layout perhaps...or signage to advise Clinic bound traffic of where the shuttle bus/parking is IE a mile away from the Clinic in the Corrib Great Southern car park???

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Anywhere else in the country where the NRA constructed such a flyover at the termination of a motorway? Just wondering.

With biko's permission.

As you are well aware the motorway itself terminates at Glennascaul, where the road becomes DC. With that in mind, all the N/M roads going into the M50 except the M11 fall into the category of terminating a DC with a flyover.

Mrs OBumble

antoobrien wrote: »

At the Collagh roundabout? Nope no need for pedestrian facilities there and GCC aren't in the habit of putting in pedestrian bridges. This is probably part of the "southern" approach works for the Coolagh roundabout.

People living in Doughiska, especially Garran Ard, and working in the Galway Clinic might disagree with you.

Not at the roundabout, but further down the road towards the ... whatever-it-is RAB at the Clinic access road.

antoobrien

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

People living in Doughiska, especially Garran Ard, and working in the Galway Clinic might disagree with you.

Not at the roundabout, but further down the road towards the ... whatever-it-is RAB at the Clinic access road.

The at the RAB in the middle of the DC it makes no sense. Somewhere near or at the Doughiska RAB beside the entrance to the clinic it would make sense.

Zzippy

antoobrien wrote: »

With biko's permission.

As you are well aware the motorway itself terminates at Glennascaul, where the road becomes DC. With that in mind, all the N/M roads going into the M50 except the M11 fall into the category of terminating a DC with a flyover.

Not to go further off-topic, but would the junction of the M20 northbound with the M7/N18 east of the tunnel in Limerick be a flyover solution that might have been a better idea for the M6/N6 Briarhill RAB?

antoobrien

Zzippy wrote: »

Not to go further off-topic, but would the junction of the M20 northbound with the M7/N18 east of the tunnel in Limerick be a flyover solution that might have been a better idea for the M6/N6 Briarhill RAB?

I'd rather not discuss it anymore here as biko has requested we on the topic of the current roadworks. Besides as an infrastructural question rather than a use one, it's probably a more appropriate question for the roads forum. And there's probably a few people that would have used it to give you an opinion, since I haven't used it I can only give you a theoretical answer.

May I suggest that you post to the M6/4 Motorway Galway to Dublin (for discussing completed sections) thread, you'll probably get an answer there.