homeless man doesn't want help

Sadderday

Hi,

I literally just had an experience moments ago on my lunchbreak and I would really be interested to know if anyone has had a similar one.

Basically, I was strolled past a homeless bloke and thought 'ah jayses it's meant to be baltic this weekend, i just got my hair done and this poor bloke is freezing' so I decided rather than gove him cash I would buy him a blanket.

I had only €20 in my purse. Nothing in my bank til payday tomorrow and I need €5 to get home.

So I knew my max was €15 & didn't see the sense in spending less.

I couldnt find a blanket warm enough in my budget and thought I'd buy him a sleeping bag instead (knowing he most likely had one but figured a second would come in handy).

So I bought it for €15 & walked towards this bloke slowly so no one was around when I handed it over as I didn't want to embarrass the bloke that seemed middle aged etc and I know every man has a little bit of pride left.

So this is what happened:

Me: Hiya, I haven't got any cash for you at the moment but I've gotten you a sleeping bag because its freezing out here

Man: (looking sideways at the sleeping bag) What did you do that for? I already have a sleeping bag

Me: Listen if it's of no use to you then you can give it to someone that you think needs it.

Man: I would have been better off with the price of the sleeping bag, I could have gotten myself a hot meal or a hostel for the night.

Me: Well I was thinking ahead for you, What about tomorrow night? At least if you don't get in anywhere you have an extra bit of warmth, it might come in handy.

Man: (takes it & puts it beside him) ok, well thanks

I began to walk away and he shouted after me 'that was kind of you, thanks' but I know it was half hearted.

I'm sure that it will actually come in handy hopefully for someone as the weather gets colder, but am I wrong for feeling like an idiot now?

I wasn't expecting a song and dance, but if he just said thanks it will come in handy I would have been delighted to have helped someone in a tiny way.

My thought process on seeing someone beg has now completely changed and I feel like such a fool. For the record I still do genuinely believe that this man is sleeping on the streets.

Any thoughts? I am snapping now, that cash could have went towards my bills.

Am I thinking too selfish on this? Please don't slate me I thought I was doing good.

jubella

You were doing a good thing. If you want to help someone out then just do it without any expectation of thanks or reciprocation.
This man did in fact thank you, and just because you deemed his thanks unsatisfactory you now wish you hadnt done it?
Either this man or someone else in need will have a warmer sleep tonight because of you, so just be happy with that and be happy with the thanks you did receive

bada_bing

i think you did the right thing there OP, it's best not to offer beggars/homeless people cash as chances are they'd spend it on alcohol or drugs. What i have done before is buy sandwiches or some hot food and it has always been appreciated.

Sadderday

Yeah I know, it's just that it seemed he would have really preferred the cash & I feel terrible sorry for him I would loved to help him out but was afraid to give cash incase it was spent on booze (as I heard happens) I would have rathered contribute to his wellbeing.

It's just that I was brought up to respect people and have manners as the majority. This man was rude I think to react in such a way.

Over the years I'd buy a cup of tea or the odd bag of chips or whatever for a person on the street. This is the first time I had received a reaction like that, i'm just surprised that I had to explain why I bought it.

In the long run sure it will be of benefit I hope.

Sadderday

bada_bing wrote: »

i think you did the right thing there OP, it's best not to offer beggars/homeless people cash as chances are they'd spend it on alcohol or drugs. What i have done before is buy sandwiches or some hot food and it has always been appreciated.

Yeah, I didnt want to sound as If I was expecting a big thank you sign to light up or anything... but i'd found some homeless people grateful for a bag of chips, sandwich or coffee... this was the most I'd spent on someone in street from my own (last bit) of money so I just thought it would have went down better ya know.

People do normally seem more appreciative in your experiences?

The Big Red Button

In fairness, you gave someone in a very desperate situation a duplicate of one of the VERY few things he already has in this world. It's just an extra (bulky!) thing for him to carry around.

I can understand his frustration.

I can also understand your good intentions, but in fairness, he had a sleeping bag, and chances are he'll mind it and use it til it's worn to nothingness. He doesn't NEED another one; either he'd give it away, or he'd be stuck carrying TWO sleeping bags around for who knows how long.

Why not ASK the person what they need? You couldve gotten that guy a weeks worth of food with that 15 euro!!

illicit007

I once spent a good while chatting to a young fella. He told me he was from the country and came to Dublin because he had no one any more and wanted to find work but couldn't find any and ended up on the streets.

So I said to him, I work at (so and so place around the corner) and that he can come to me any time and see me there. I offered to write him out a C.V. and print several copies and even give him a fake reference and put my phone number down and say he was a good worker if anyone called. I also offered to buy him a good set of clothes, (shirt, tie, etc) and basically help to get him out of his situation.

I never saw him again.

I also get the 'money for hostel' line all the time but I was told on good authority by a few Dubliners (I haven't lived in Ireland or Dublin that long) that there's place for homeless people to go. He told me the names of them and that some were better than others but many of them wouldn't allow in drunks etc. The rules were you basically had to be clean and sober. He said the ones that ask for money for hostels are actually trying to get money for drugs and alcohol.

I feel sorry for homeless people but I think that if they're begging for money it must be for drugs and alcohol and I don't want to enable people or feed their addiction so now I never give money to anyone.

Is that right / wrong?

I especially dislike the romanian type women who carry babies around with their hands out to you for money. I figure they're probably over here on the benefit like all the Irish people and you never see Irish women carrying babies with their hands out.

I know I don't understand so if anyone wants to put me right I'm all ears, but this is my experience and knowledge so far and I believe I'm right.

Sadderday

Fluffy Bunny Rabid wrote: »

In fairness, you gave someone in a very desperate situation a duplicate of one of the VERY few things he already has in this world. It's just an extra (bulky!) thing for him to carry around.

I can understand his frustration.

I can also understand your good intentions, but in fairness, he had a sleeping bag, and chances are he'll mind it and use it til it's worn to nothingness. He doesn't NEED another one; either he'd give it away, or he'd be stuck carrying TWO sleeping bags around for who knows how long.

Why not ASK the person what they need? You couldve gotten that guy a weeks worth of food with that 15 euro!!

I know I only realised after that he would have to carry it but in fairness it's not heavy and it's meant to drop to -5 tomorrow night. I figured it would be better to be wrapped up in 2 sleeping bags rather than 1 plus he has one to sit on and one to throw over himself to take the edge off.

You cant approach a homeless person though to ask what they need. You don't know who they are and your telling someone you have cash... that could turn into a nasty situation which in extreme circumstances I'm sure could actually result in someone being followed, mugged or whatever.

I don't mean to assume that all homeless drink alcohol but I would have hated if I asked and he responded with something from the offo.

I know see his frustration clearer, I do.... but I was trying to help and it wasn't the dumbest idea in the world.

Giruilla

Sadderday wrote: »

It's just that I was brought up to respect people and have manners as the majority. This man was rude I think to react in such a way.

Over the years I'd buy a cup of tea or the odd bag of chips or whatever for a person on the street. This is the first time I had received a reaction like that, i'm just surprised that I had to explain why I bought it.

You do realise you're applying your own manner system to someone whos life couldn't be more different to yours?

You're right to feel angry.. but with yourself, not with him. You made the mistake.. it has nothing to do with how he acted.

illicit007

The Main point OP is that at least you TRIED to do something useful and you were smart enough not to just hand over money.

Fluffy bunny has a good point, it would be wise to ask. But in saying that I probably would have done what you did

It's a good idea. Next time we could ask the homeless what they need - maybe something warm from pennies, maybe some food... I dunno. I still harbour this feeling like they're responsible for the position they are in.

Especially since my friend told me there are centers which help the homeless get their cv.s printed and will even supply them with a shirt etc for a job interview...

Sadderday

illicit007 wrote: »

I once spent a good while chatting to a young fella. He told me he was from the country and came to Dublin because he had no one any more and wanted to find work but couldn't find any and ended up on the streets.

So I said to him, I work at (so and so place around the corner) and that he can come to me any time and see me there. I offered to write him out a C.V. and print several copies and even give him a fake reference and put my phone number down and say he was a good worker if anyone called. I also offered to buy him a good set of clothes, (shirt, tie, etc) and basically help to get him out of his situation.

I never saw him again.

I also get the 'money for hostel' line all the time but I was told on good authority by a few Dubliners (I haven't lived in Ireland or Dublin that long) that there's place for homeless people to go. He told me the names of them and that some were better than others but many of them wouldn't allow in drunks etc. The rules were you basically had to be clean and sober. He said the ones that ask for money for hostels are actually trying to get money for drugs and alcohol.

I feel sorry for homeless people but I think that if they're begging for money it must be for drugs and alcohol and I don't want to enable people or feed their addiction so now I never give money to anyone.

Is that right / wrong?

I especially dislike the romanian type women who carry babies around with their hands out to you for money. I figure they're probably over here on the benefit like all the Irish people and you never see Irish women carrying babies with their hands out.

I know I don't understand so if anyone wants to put me right I'm all ears, but this is my experience and knowledge so far and I believe I'm right.

I wouldn't give cash either. Never ever give time/money to the romanian beggers. I just feel that we should look after our own first. Probably get backlash for that, but it's true.

Sadderday

illicit007 wrote: »

The Main point OP is that at least you TRIED to do something useful and you were smart enough not to just hand over money.

Fluffy bunny has a good point, it would be wise to ask. But in saying that I probably would have done what you did

It's a good idea. Next time we could ask the homeless what they need - maybe something warm from pennies, maybe some food... I dunno. I still harbour this feeling like they're responsible for the position they are in.

Especially since my friend told me there are centers which help the homeless get their cv.s printed and will even supply them with a shirt etc for a job interview...

I understand but I think it's a bad idea to ask what they need and parade the fact that you have money.

If someone is in a bad enough state or has a severe addiction you could be putting yourself in the line of fire for an attack of some sort. You have to keep your wits about you aswell.

Sadderday

Giruilla wrote: »

You do realise you're applying your own manner system to someone whos life couldn't be more different to yours?

You're right to feel angry.. but with yourself, not with him. You made the mistake.. it has nothing to do with how he acted.

Is it really a mistake to make an effort to help someone in a way that to me still seems very sensible?

by the way, how do you know that my life hasn't been much different? Manners are free is all I meant by that.

I will reiterate : You have no idea what kind of life someone has led so I urge you to be more sensitive with your comments please.

super_furry

I think things like blankets and sleeping bags may well already be provided by the various charities so a homeless person might not see the value in something they already get for free.

Sadderday

super_furry wrote: »

I think things like blankets and sleeping bags may well already be provided by the various charities so a homeless person might not see the value in something they already get for free.

I didn't know that. I've seen some homeless with really old ragged sleeping bags... I thought they were donated I didnt think they were handed out.

Giruilla

Sadderday wrote: »

Is it really a mistake to make an effort to help someone in a way that to me still seems very sensible?

by the way, how do you know that my life hasn't been much different? Manners are free is all I meant by that.

I will reiterate : You have no idea what kind of life someone has led so I urge you to be more sensitive with your comments please.

Why don't you apply the same logic to him? You've engaged with someone who lives on the streets (for whatever reason).. someone who day to day is seen and treated with possibly the lowest respect in society. It's highly likely his current social manner of interacting with people will not be "normal" enough to embrace a "manners are free" attitude.

I'm not trying to have a go.. I think you did something really really nice. I'm just saying your mistake is expecting to see your value system reciprocated in someone else who is clearly in extraordinary circumstances.

illicit007

You both have valid points. OP tried to do something 99% of people who walk past said homeless people wouldn't be arsed doing and everyone reading recognises that. Don't feel like anyone is giving you a hard time OP and if they are it's okay I'll deck em for ya Just kidding. We've all been brought up different and are physiologically different too so we all react different. In fairness the homeless did seem to acknowledge you did someone out of the ordinary for him even if it seemed a half hearted acknowledgement. I don't think you did anything wrong OP. You tried at least.

I think really best thing anyone can do to help the homeless would be to join an organisation who helps the homeless and learn from someone whos' been doing it for a long time, how the best way to go about it is and how best to help them is.

Sadderday

Giruilla wrote: »

Why don't you apply the same logic to him? You've engaged with someone who lives on the streets (for whatever reason).. someone who day to day is seen and treated with possibly the lowest respect in society. It's highly likely his current social manner of interacting with people will not be "normal" enough to embrace a "manners are free" attitude.

I'm not trying to have a go.. I think you did something really really nice. I'm just saying your mistake is expecting to see your value system reciprocated in someone else who is clearly in extraordinary circumstances.

I get that. I'm just saying that i've come across people that are more gracious when you give them a cigarette. I put some thought into it, I really did. I wanted to make a difference to living in a tiny way. People walk past all day, some people stop, some people don't. I didn't just stop I spent my lunchbreak and my last bit of cash on this stranger.

Does it matter that it was a sleeping bag really? Is the fact that I wanted to make a difference for him not enough? I just don't think he needed to tell me that he would have preffered money. He should have said nothing instead. It bugs me because I feel like I have done wrong... but I was only trying to help so how can that be wrong? I obviously hadn't disrespected this bloke in any way intentionally

I just imagine that if it were my brother were on the streets I'd hope that someone would think of making him a little warmer.

I had expected anything major, honestly if he didnt say thanks I probably would still be a little bit peeved. but i think the point is that when you make an effort to help someone in someway, why is it ok for them to say they would prefer something else?

Giruilla

Sadderday wrote: »

I get that. I'm just saying that i've come across people that are more gracious when you give them a cigarette. I put some thought into it, I really did. I wanted to make a difference to living in a tiny way. People walk past all day, some people stop, some people don't. I didn't just stop I spent my lunchbreak and my last bit of cash on this stranger.

Does it matter that it was a sleeping bag really? Is the fact that I wanted to make a difference for him not enough? I just don't think he needed to tell me that he would have preffered money. He should have said nothing instead. It bugs me because I feel like I have done wrong... but I was only trying to help so how can that be wrong? I obviously hadn't disrespected this bloke in any way intentionally

I just imagine that if it were my brother were on the streets I'd hope that someone would think of making him a little warmer.

I had expected anything major, honestly if he didnt say thanks I probably would still be a little bit peeved. but i think the point is that when you make an effort to help someone in someway, why is it ok for them to say they would prefer something else?

I don't think you do..

illicit007

If he said "you should have given me money instead" my first through would be have 'feckin drug addict'

You should have said "grand" and taken the sleeping bag back to the shop you got it from with the receipt and gotten your money back! Fecking cheek of him

Sadderday

Giruilla wrote: »

I don't think you do..

Of course I do and without going into too much detail.. I do because I have had to rely on the good will of others to survive day to day at a rough stage in my life. Of course I do. I have always been grateful.
Which is why I find it hard to understand.

So I do GET IT- don't dispute that. I shall take the other comments you take on board. Thank you.

Sadderday

Sadderday wrote: »

It's just that I was brought up to respect people and have manners as the majority. This man was rude I think to react in such a way.

This guy has possibly been on the streets for a very long time, and kind souls like yourself are in the minority when it comes to interacting with homeless people.

I doubt he's been on the receiving end of a lot of courtesy or consideration, and his environment is very hostile in so many ways that I'm sure it hardens a person. I'm not surprised he wasn't especially mannerly, although he did thank you.

You did a good thing, and a man not often treated with respect or manners thanked you for it. Let it be enough.

bigmac147

hi op and others really do not know where to begin, theres been quite alot of posts now to this thread. Firstly i feel i have to clear up alot of misconceptions etc. people have regarding the homeless you see in dublin everyday (this does NOT include the romanian population, which is an entirely different matter / problem).

Quickly just to say to o.p. your just having a normal human reaction from the events that occured.You went out of your way to do a very kind deed for a complete stranger who in your estimation needed it badly, the reason why ur annoyed is because you didn't get the recipircation for your actions, which in your own mind you felt was waranteed. Totally understandable and completely normal. Please forget about the actual conversation u had with the man, look within urself and realise that that is all it is. You have a heart of gold for thinking of him in the first place so please never lose that, please read on to understand why it was pointless. Just to finish op, You D'ont Give To Recieve. give with all of your heart and blessings or not at all. Hope i'm not coming across as if i'm preaching to you here.

Now back to the homeless, I feel i can speak freely on the subject as i had the misfortune to end up homeless for quite a long period of time not so long ago.about my own experiences i will say they were harrowing times for the most part. I never used drugs in my life and although i enjoy a social drink i never had a problem with alcohol or anything else for that matter infact i was just like urself buying a coffee,sandwich, a smoke, afew euro etc. to the homeless until i ended up as one. Believe me when i say it can easily happen.
When ur first made homeless u present urself at the homeless persons unit(across from pearse st. garda station) they only open from 10am-12 every morning the civil service at its best!!. Ur given a long list of things to do such as registering with dublin city council etc. these forms took me 2 days to get filled in hours a day walking/queing around town, tax office etc.. u then present urself at 160 capel street (d.citycouncil for the homeless) and they FIND YOU A PLACE TO STAY and they WILL FIND YOU A PLACE

The standards i first encountered were third world though. must mention the poster 'illicit' here, every last person without exception in this particular hostel was a chaotic drug user(heroin etc) or degenerate alcoholic and off there tits walking into the building. These hostels are called emergency accomadation, 4.50e a night or nothing if u hadn't recieved a payment they open at 8pm and ur thrown out at 9am. Dormitory style rooms betwen 4 to 20 per room and filthy dirty. even though i wore them in bed they managed to rob my shoes off my feet and these guys are off they're face smoking heroin in the corner for the best part of the night, u don't sleep, an hour or two at best.I can't even describe the toilets suffice to say it involves blood, piss ,**** and everything else u can think of. food consisted of tea/coffee bread cereal and thats that until u can get back in at 8pm.whats truly sad is that some of these people had been living like this for over 2 years. i grew up in an area with a very small handful of known heroin addicts but nothing on these guys scale.

I did find out later u will never go hungry in dublin. u can get something to eat for free from 7.30am in the morning(merchants quay) and if ur willing to walk a bit still get soup and sandwiches up to 8pm. HOMELESS PEOPLE CAN EAT FOR NOTHING, if they so chose.
In saying all that when u get all the forms for pearse st. u recieve a payment the equivalent to the dole its called supplementary benefit i think basically the dole in another name as u've no fixed address. there are other places to stay however, the back lane hostel if u can get into it, own room stay in all day if u wish, the iveagh trust building (2mins from christchurch both places) own room own key and come and go as u please.i met a guy who had been living there 12 years and others alot longer. Sad really basically institutionalised into it. If u kept presenting at capel st. they'd also try to find u something better.
U must realise d.c.council have all types of accomadation set up for the homless b+b's, hostels good and bad and houses that are basically set up as flats also up on harcourt street basically right beside coppers theres a 'wet hostel' where proper degenerates can drink inside all day, dormitory style rooms and recieve three meals a day. The point i'm making is that from what i saw and experienced people chose to sleep rough as they may feel safer doing so i don't know, regarding the sleeping bags theres people that are out EVERY nite looking for rough sleepers giving them tea, soup, sandwiches and sleeping bags. wot still blows my mind is when u see them in doorways why they don't go to a garda station. u can tell them ur homeless and they can't refuse u. u can sleep on the floor till 7am, i know because i had to do it on more than one occassion.

Well i hope i cleared some of that up in my opinion don't EVER give a homeless person money EVER. the reason being is that virtually all have some sort of dependence wheither its drugs of some kind or alcohol thats the sad fact about it. they can be put somewhere so as to sleep, they can eat for nothing and after that its up to them because one thing i can say for absolute certainty is that u will be given virtually no help whatsoever in trying to get yourself out of it.thats the biggest failure of it all.u will be left to rot and not only that ur treated like ****e every step off the way.SORRY about the long long rant but i hope it clears some things up

Quickly about the romanians they recieve no social welfare payments here in ireland. they are allowed to move freely in and out of ireland and offically stay for 3 months at a time. i think we all know what they're really doing here, never under any circumstances give them anything in my opinion. google france and the romanians and see their policies now towards them, there was also an excelllent documentary regarding same last year look up bbc iplayer it might be on it .

To o.p. its a tough predictament you want to help but if the next time you give them money instead understand your enabling their addiction. i also wouldn't be a fan of supporting homeless charities either focus for one useless in my opinion. Unfortunately much like every other social policy successive governments have implemented ultimately they fail miserably. please remenber the last government promised to put an end to homelessness by 2012 this governmnet has pledged 2016. it will fail as homlessness is a highly complex problem which needs massive resources to succeed involving the way we treat drug users both medicinally and criminally down to really ending any and social stratification policies that have been subtely woven into government policies over decades of successive failed governments that has gotten us the cess pit of a country we unfortunately find ourselves confronted with but i'll let you explore those issues on your own time. i only hope you do so. bye

bigmac147

gfmbnv cfd

Irish Musician

Sadderday wrote: »

Does it matter that it was a sleeping bag really? Is the fact that I wanted to make a difference for him not enough? I just don't think he needed to tell me that he would have preffered money. He should have said nothing instead. It bugs me because I feel like I have done wrong... but I was only trying to help so how can that be wrong? I obviously hadn't disrespected this bloke in any way intentionally

You haven't done wrong. The chap is in desperate circumstances and saw your gift as something he didnt need and was probably voicing his fustration. Don't take it personal and don't let it stop you the next time. People are homeless for all kinds of reasons and just because some are lacking in social skills doesn't mean they are not greatful. Don't do it for the gratitude,do it because you can and want to help. Well done.

bigmac147 wrote: »

hi op and others really do not know where to begin, theres been quite alot of posts now to this thread. Firstly i feel i have to clear up alot of misconceptions etc. people have regarding the homeless you see in dublin everyday (this does NOT include the romanian population, which is an entirely different matter / problem).

Quickly just to say to o.p. your just having a normal human reaction from the events that occured.You went out of your way to do a very kind deed for a complete stranger who in your estimation needed it badly, the reason why ur annoyed is because you didn't get the recipircation for your actions, which in your own mind you felt was waranteed. Totally understandable and completely normal. Please forget about the actual conversation u had with the man, look within urself and realise that that is all it is. You have a heart of gold for thinking of him in the first place so please never lose that, please read on to understand why it was pointless. Just to finish op, You D'ont Give To Recieve. give with all of your heart and blessings or not at all. Hope i'm not coming across as if i'm preaching to you here.

Now back to the homeless, I feel i can speak freely on the subject as i had the misfortune to end up homeless for quite a long period of time not so long ago.about my own experiences i will say they were harrowing times for the most part. I never used drugs in my life and although i enjoy a social drink i never had a problem with alcohol or anything else for that matter infact i was just like urself buying a coffee,sandwich, a smoke, afew euro etc. to the homeless until i ended up as one. Believe me when i say it can easily happen.
When ur first made homeless u present urself at the homeless persons unit(across from pearse st. garda station) they only open from 10am-12 every morning the civil service at its best!!. Ur given a long list of things to do such as registering with dublin city council etc. these forms took me 2 days to get filled in hours a day walking/queing around town, tax office etc.. u then present urself at 160 capel street (d.citycouncil for the homeless) and they FIND YOU A PLACE TO STAY and they WILL FIND YOU A PLACE

The standards i first encountered were third world though. must mention the poster 'illicit' here, every last person without exception in this particular hostel was a chaotic drug user(heroin etc) or degenerate alcoholic and off there tits walking into the building. These hostels are called emergency accomadation, 4.50e a night or nothing if u hadn't recieved a payment they open at 8pm and ur thrown out at 9am. Dormitory style rooms betwen 4 to 20 per room and filthy dirty. even though i wore them in bed they managed to rob my shoes off my feet and these guys are off they're face smoking heroin in the corner for the best part of the night, u don't sleep, an hour or two at best.I can't even describe the toilets suffice to say it involves blood, piss ,**** and everything else u can think of. food consisted of tea/coffee bread cereal and thats that until u can get back in at 8pm.whats truly sad is that some of these people had been living like this for over 2 years. i grew up in an area with a very small handful of known heroin addicts but nothing on these guys scale.

I did find out later u will never go hungry in dublin. u can get something to eat for free from 7.30am in the morning(merchants quay) and if ur willing to walk a bit still get soup and sandwiches up to 8pm. HOMELESS PEOPLE CAN EAT FOR NOTHING, if they so chose.
In saying all that when u get all the forms for pearse st. u recieve a payment the equivalent to the dole its called supplementary benefit i think basically the dole in another name as u've no fixed address. there are other places to stay however, the back lane hostel if u can get into it, own room stay in all day if u wish, the iveagh trust building (2mins from christchurch both places) own room own key and come and go as u please.i met a guy who had been living there 12 years and others alot longer. Sad really basically institutionalised into it. If u kept presenting at capel st. they'd also try to find u something better.
U must realise d.c.council have all types of accomadation set up for the homless b+b's, hostels good and bad and houses that are basically set up as flats also up on harcourt street basically right beside coppers theres a 'wet hostel' where proper degenerates can drink inside all day, dormitory style rooms and recieve three meals a day. The point i'm making is that from what i saw and experienced people chose to sleep rough as they may feel safer doing so i don't know, regarding the sleeping bags theres people that are out EVERY nite looking for rough sleepers giving them tea, soup, sandwiches and sleeping bags. wot still blows my mind is when u see them in doorways why they don't go to a garda station. u can tell them ur homeless and they can't refuse u. u can sleep on the floor till 7am, i know because i had to do it on more than one occassion.

Well i hope i cleared some of that up in my opinion don't EVER give a homeless person money EVER. the reason being is that virtually all have some sort of dependence wheither its drugs of some kind or alcohol thats the sad fact about it. they can be put somewhere so as to sleep, they can eat for nothing and after that its up to them because one thing i can say for absolute certainty is that u will be given virtually no help whatsoever in trying to get yourself out of it.thats the biggest failure of it all.u will be left to rot and not only that ur treated like ****e every step off the way.SORRY about the long long rant but i hope it clears some things up

Quickly about the romanians they recieve no social welfare payments here in ireland. they are allowed to move freely in and out of ireland and offically stay for 3 months at a time. i think we all know what they're really doing here, never under any circumstances give them anything in my opinion. google france and the romanians and see their policies now towards them, there was also an excelllent documentary regarding same last year look up bbc iplayer it might be on it .

To o.p. its a tough predictament you want to help but if the next time you give them money instead understand your enabling their addiction. i also wouldn't be a fan of supporting homeless charities either focus for one useless in my opinion. Unfortunately much like every other social policy successive governments have implemented ultimately they fail miserably. please remenber the last government promised to put an end to homelessness by 2012 this governmnet has pledged 2016. it will fail as homlessness is a highly complex problem which needs massive resources to succeed involving the way we treat drug users both medicinally and criminally down to really ending any and social stratification policies that have been subtely woven into government policies over decades of successive failed governments that has gotten us the cess pit of a country we unfortunately find ourselves confronted with but i'll let you explore those issues on your own time. i only hope you do so. bye

Thanks for the post mate. Why would you not support homless charities?

bigmac147

the reason being irish musician is because when i had to deal with them, on the assumption they could help me out it proved not to be the case. they couldn't answer the most basic of questions at the time (that was with the benefit of hindsight obviously). they just proved utterly useless in helping me out. maybe its changed since but i found all any of them were interested in was 'what do we provide' outside of that remit it was like talking to a wall. They reminded me of pearse st.(hpu) alot at the time everything seemed to be one big secret.

treating everyone like a child,talking to you like a mindless 5 year lod child, not exactly sure what that policy is called but theres definitely a name behind it and is used across the board within the whole homeless system. I realised you couldn't let the situation get the better of you or you could quite easily end up with some serious mental or addiction issues. the point being whos funding these organisations/charities what are the ceo's/managing directors earning salary wise? just my biased opinion i suppose but was my experience. i knew after all was said and done i could have been in and out of that homeless system within 6 maybe 8 weeks at a push with the revelant information and speaking to someone that understood it all. unfortunately it took far far longer, then again much like the bloated civil service it keeps the b!"£$%^ds in jobs

mattjack

bigmac147 wrote: »

hi op and others really do not know where to begin, theres been quite alot of posts now to this thread. Firstly i feel i have to clear up alot of misconceptions etc. people have regarding the homeless you see in dublin everyday (this does NOT include the romanian population, which is an entirely different matter / problem).

Quickly just to say to o.p. your just having a normal human reaction from the events that occured.You went out of your way to do a very kind deed for a complete stranger who in your estimation needed it badly, the reason why ur annoyed is because you didn't get the recipircation for your actions, which in your own mind you felt was waranteed. Totally understandable and completely normal. Please forget about the actual conversation u had with the man, look within urself and realise that that is all it is. You have a heart of gold for thinking of him in the first place so please never lose that, please read on to understand why it was pointless. Just to finish op, You D'ont Give To Recieve. give with all of your heart and blessings or not at all. Hope i'm not coming across as if i'm preaching to you here.

Now back to the homeless, I feel i can speak freely on the subject as i had the misfortune to end up homeless for quite a long period of time not so long ago.about my own experiences i will say they were harrowing times for the most part. I never used drugs in my life and although i enjoy a social drink i never had a problem with alcohol or anything else for that matter infact i was just like urself buying a coffee,sandwich, a smoke, afew euro etc. to the homeless until i ended up as one. Believe me when i say it can easily happen.
When ur first made homeless u present urself at the homeless persons unit(across from pearse st. garda station) they only open from 10am-12 every morning the civil service at its best!!. Ur given a long list of things to do such as registering with dublin city council etc. these forms took me 2 days to get filled in hours a day walking/queing around town, tax office etc.. u then present urself at 160 capel street (d.citycouncil for the homeless) and they FIND YOU A PLACE TO STAY and they WILL FIND YOU A PLACE

The standards i first encountered were third world though. must mention the poster 'illicit' here, every last person without exception in this particular hostel was a chaotic drug user(heroin etc) or degenerate alcoholic and off there tits walking into the building. These hostels are called emergency accomadation, 4.50e a night or nothing if u hadn't recieved a payment they open at 8pm and ur thrown out at 9am. Dormitory style rooms betwen 4 to 20 per room and filthy dirty. even though i wore them in bed they managed to rob my shoes off my feet and these guys are off they're face smoking heroin in the corner for the best part of the night, u don't sleep, an hour or two at best.I can't even describe the toilets suffice to say it involves blood, piss ,**** and everything else u can think of. food consisted of tea/coffee bread cereal and thats that until u can get back in at 8pm.whats truly sad is that some of these people had been living like this for over 2 years. i grew up in an area with a very small handful of known heroin addicts but nothing on these guys scale.

I did find out later u will never go hungry in dublin. u can get something to eat for free from 7.30am in the morning(merchants quay) and if ur willing to walk a bit still get soup and sandwiches up to 8pm. HOMELESS PEOPLE CAN EAT FOR NOTHING, if they so chose.
In saying all that when u get all the forms for pearse st. u recieve a payment the equivalent to the dole its called supplementary benefit i think basically the dole in another name as u've no fixed address. there are other places to stay however, the back lane hostel if u can get into it, own room stay in all day if u wish, the iveagh trust building (2mins from christchurch both places) own room own key and come and go as u please.i met a guy who had been living there 12 years and others alot longer. Sad really basically institutionalised into it. If u kept presenting at capel st. they'd also try to find u something better.
U must realise d.c.council have all types of accomadation set up for the homless b+b's, hostels good and bad and houses that are basically set up as flats also up on harcourt street basically right beside coppers theres a 'wet hostel' where proper degenerates can drink inside all day, dormitory style rooms and recieve three meals a day. The point i'm making is that from what i saw and experienced people chose to sleep rough as they may feel safer doing so i don't know, regarding the sleeping bags theres people that are out EVERY nite looking for rough sleepers giving them tea, soup, sandwiches and sleeping bags. wot still blows my mind is when u see them in doorways why they don't go to a garda station. u can tell them ur homeless and they can't refuse u. u can sleep on the floor till 7am, i know because i had to do it on more than one occassion.

Well i hope i cleared some of that up in my opinion don't EVER give a homeless person money EVER. the reason being is that virtually all have some sort of dependence wheither its drugs of some kind or alcohol thats the sad fact about it. they can be put somewhere so as to sleep, they can eat for nothing and after that its up to them because one thing i can say for absolute certainty is that u will be given virtually no help whatsoever in trying to get yourself out of it.thats the biggest failure of it all.u will be left to rot and not only that ur treated like ****e every step off the way.SORRY about the long long rant but i hope it clears some things up

Quickly about the romanians they recieve no social welfare payments here in ireland. they are allowed to move freely in and out of ireland and offically stay for 3 months at a time. i think we all know what they're really doing here, never under any circumstances give them anything in my opinion. google france and the romanians and see their policies now towards them, there was also an excelllent documentary regarding same last year look up bbc iplayer it might be on it .

To o.p. its a tough predictament you want to help but if the next time you give them money instead understand your enabling their addiction. i also wouldn't be a fan of supporting homeless charities either focus for one useless in my opinion. Unfortunately much like every other social policy successive governments have implemented ultimately they fail miserably. please remenber the last government promised to put an end to homelessness by 2012 this governmnet has pledged 2016. it will fail as homlessness is a highly complex problem which needs massive resources to succeed involving the way we treat drug users both medicinally and criminally down to really ending any and social stratification policies that have been subtely woven into government policies over decades of successive failed governments that has gotten us the cess pit of a country we unfortunately find ourselves confronted with but i'll let you explore those issues on your own time. i only hope you do so. bye

I work for a homeless charity and is one of the most informed posts I've ever seen . I can't argue with you on any point.

bigmac147

do you mind mentioning which one mattjack??

mattjack

bigmac147 wrote: »

do you mind mentioning which one mattjack??

MQI

bigmac147

MQI merchants quay??

mattjack

Yes

bigmac147

had breakfast on one or two occassions never actually spoke to anyone inside really. i'm guessing things are only getting worse for yourselves keep up the good work and thanks for the compliment.

mattjack

bigmac147 wrote: »

had breakfast on one or two occassions never actually spoke to anyone inside really. i'm guessing things are only getting worse for yourselves keep up the good work and thanks for the compliment.

Things are difficult , but hearing your story about getting on with your life makes it worthwhile.
Best of luck.

bigmac147

same to you, although i could never say i was happy certain things transpired which led be to become homeless ,in fact it was a f***ing nightmare maybe i'm appreciating the little things all the more now. everything happens for a reason

mattjack

bigmac147 wrote: »

same to you, although i could never say i was happy certain things transpired which led be to become homeless ,in fact it was a f***ing nightmare maybe i'm appreciating the little things all the more now. everything happens for a reason

were you homeless for long ?

leeomurchu

Might have been an idea to ask him if you could get him something to eat instead but it was a good deed none the less fair play to you.

bigmac147

too long matt just under a year don't want to go into to many specifics but the biggest problem at the time was in finding suitable accomodation, from what i've seen in the press over the last while it has gotten substanially worse what chance do people actually have to rebuild themselves at the present time terrible situation really

illicit007

Thanks for your input into this mattjack and bigmac147. As an outsider I know only what I've been told and it's good to hear affiration that you shouldn't be giving homeless people money as it only helps to enable them to feed their addiction and stay in the cycle of drugs, depression and depravity.

Just from a logical point of view (and having had it confirmed by a few knowledgeable proper dubliners) I deducted that homeless people must have a way out of it (albeit now I realise it's a much tougher and grimier situation than I first imagined) and that a few coins isn't going to change that situation for them. Infact over all those coins will probably be pooled together to buy a small bag of heroin for that night. Tomorrow the cycle will begin again. "Can you spare two euros for a cup of tea love?"

Addiction is a terrible thing as is homelessness. I'm just happy that you got out of it bigmac and I feel truely sorry for the people who are stuck in that situation that aren't addicts or are atleast truely trying to break free from their situation. Good on you mattjack for doing what you do.

bigmac147

thanks illicit just trying to dispel some 'myths' about the whole thing, in my experience i only met a couple of people like myself and even then didn't know their backgrounds etc. so couldn't say for sure unfortunately the vast vast majority have addiction issues.looking back on it i do feel for alot of them because i was always proactive trying my best with no addiction issues what chance have the poor f****s you see on the street got?? none i would say. They'll end up in and out of jail as a result of trying to feed their addiction.
ANYONE please correct me if i'm wrong but i believe it costs the tax payer approx. 65,000e per year to house an inmate would that not be better spent on increasing services, providing more detox. beds for addicts etc.?? ireland has a pitiful amount of these at present
my understanding of it is the current policy is to get them ''stabalised'' aka hooked on methadone long,long term the stuff is actually harder to come off than heroin as far as i am aware all go's back to social policy again really

lolo62

Sadderday wrote: »

I know I only realised after that he would have to carry it but in fairness it's not heavy and it's meant to drop to -5 tomorrow night. I figured it would be better to be wrapped up in 2 sleeping bags rather than 1 plus he has one to sit on and one to throw over himself to take the edge off.

You cant approach a homeless person though to ask what they need. You don't know who they are and your telling someone you have cash... that could turn into a nasty situation which in extreme circumstances I'm sure could actually result in someone being followed, mugged or whatever.

I don't mean to assume that all homeless drink alcohol but I would have hated if I asked and he responded with something from the offo.

I know see his frustration clearer, I do.... but I was trying to help and it wasn't the dumbest idea in the world.

OP I think what you did was lovely, he's just in a world of pain and in that moment saw the value of the sleeping bag in quantity of cans or bottles etc...
I'm sure he was glad of it later or sold it on for a few quid

I think we end up patronising homeless people accidentally while trying to be nice because we think we know what's best for them..the reality is they are adults and in charge of their own lives