Paid Parking for all Staff & Students

new2tri

A letter from Eamonn Ceannt to the Unions us is currently circulating among UCD staff. The letter outlines how current car parking arrangements will cease and paid car parking for staff and students "is being introduced" in both belfield and blackrock from next September. Apparently staff and students are to be treated equally with a base parking fee of 50c per hour for all. This is to fund the new commuter facility.

These new arrangemnts could cost full-time saff up to €1000 per year for normal day-to-day parking!!

SIPTU believe free car parking to be part of the terms and conditions of employment of staff in UCD and are planning to work with other unions in the university to oppose the introduction of paid car parking on its members. I would imagine the Students Union will be all over this one too.

I wonder how all the local residents will feel about all the local estates being clogged up with cars!

bbuzz

At the moment you can get an annual parking pass for the pay carparks for around €50. I'm sure (or I hope) there will be something similar next year.

godtabh

Read the first article here
http://www.smartertravelworkplaces.ie/media/newsletter_120101.pdf

very similar and a great move by UCD

bbuzz

godtabh wrote: »

Read the first article here
http://www.smartertravelworkplaces.ie/media/newsletter_120101.pdf

very similar and a great move by UCD

The shuttle bus to the train station seems to have been a great success at IT Blanchardstown. Maybe UCD should consider something similar to link the campus to the Luas and Dart? The 17 does that now, but its so unreliable!

groovyg

Is this going to stop all the people who use UCD as a park and ride facility?

RayCarley

bbuzz wrote: »

At the moment you can get an annual parking pass for the pay carparks for around €50. I'm sure (or I hope) there will be something similar next year.

That was only available to staff though wasn't it? Not like it would help, the paid parking still fills up in UCD, only people try and get free parking first.

bbuzz

RayCarley wrote: »

That was only available to staff though wasn't it? Not like it would help, the paid parking still fills up in UCD, only people try and get free parking first.

Nope, was for students too. I got one because I had to get back to Belfield from Smurfit at around 11am and could only get parking in the pay & display. But you're right, even the pay & display car parks fill up at some points during the day.

Link: http://www.ucd.ie/building/code/traffic.html

RayCarley

bbuzz wrote: »

Nope, was for students too. I got one because I had to get back to Belfield from Smurfit at around 11am and could only get parking in the pay & display. But you're right, even the pay & display car parks fill up at some points during the day.

Link: http://www.ucd.ie/building/code/traffic.html

I never knew that. I guess it wasn't something they wanted to tell everyone, although I can't see why.
I'm not surprised they haven't told students that all parking will be paid for next year yet though.

ironclaw

groovyg wrote: »

Is this going to stop all the people who use UCD as a park and ride facility?

At 50c an hour it will probably encourage it as many students (I feel) won't pay it and rather make alternative arrangements. God help the surrounding neighborhoods! A week's parking would cost about 20 euro at that rate. I certainly won't be forking out 100 euro a month for the right to park in a university I pay close to 3k to attend (And 6k next year due to a Masters)

They should introduce paid parking but it should be a permit system for students. They already have ANPR cameras in operation so they know what cars are parking where in the university. With SISWeb etc it wouldn't be that hard to integrate i.e. One car per year for X euros additional to your fee's.

I'd happily pay an upfront, reasonable fee if it somewhat guaranteed some parking space (i.e. Only 1.5 times the population of permits available) A blind man can see that the front car park completely full at 7.45am is hardly students.

cuckoo

ironclaw wrote: »

A blind man can see that the front car park completely full at 7.45am is hardly students.

+10000000000000

I'd support a permit for paid parking for staff and students, but 20c per hour is too much. UCD is private property - no permit/not in a 'paid and display zone' = clamp.

I live in Dublin 6 and pay Dublin city council 50 euro a year for an on street residents permit, and there's pay and display machines in my area. Before these measures were introduced it was a battle for parking, and similar to ucd there was a lot of park and ride going on.

50 euro per semester for a permit in ucd - that and the clamping fines would probably more than meet the enforcement costs and would make parking a much less stressful experience for everyone.

ironclaw

cuckoo wrote: »

I live in Dublin 6 and pay Dublin city council 50 euro a year for an on street residents permit, and there's pay and display machines in my area. Before these measures were introduced it was a battle for parking, and similar to ucd there was a lot of park and ride going on.

Out of interest, with the introduction of a permit and Pay N' Display, did the park and ride brigade move elsewhere? Or did it make much difference?

I figure as long as your making it the same cost as getting a bus from further afield (Or generally more expensive that its worth) then it should stop people parking in UCD. The issue at the moment is it costs next to nothing if you can grab a bus from UCD and use a prepaid ticket. Its also ridiculously convenient for the drive home. Weigh that up against a prepaid ticket and probably €5 per day on parking and I think you'd very quickly see people go elsewhere.

Chet T16

I'd happily pay 100 or so for a years parking permit assuming there was a reasonable chance of getting parking when I arrive. The only reasons I didn't get the 50 euro pass was because they changed the entrance to 'my' car park so i couldn't get to it without coming in the main entrance and that didn't suit. It was also based on your reg and being restricted to taking a certain car every day didn't work. Theres a lake there now anyway

With everyone having a ucard there is no reason not to have parking restricted to staff and students, it's no secret who takes up a large chunk of the current spaces.

RayCarley

Chet T16 wrote: »

I'd happily pay 100 or so for a years parking permit assuming there was a reasonable chance of getting parking when I arrive. The only reasons I didn't get the 50 euro pass was because they changed the entrance to 'my' car park so i couldn't get to it without coming in the main entrance and that didn't suit. It was also based on your reg and being restricted to taking a certain car every day didn't work. Theres a lake there now anyway

With everyone having a ucard there is no reason not to have parking restricted to staff and students, it's no secret who takes up a large chunk of the current spaces.

The problem is that the number of parking spaces in UCD is capped at 3600 by the county council and other bodies, so even if they bring in a permit system there won't be any guarantee that you'll get a space. So you'd really just be paying for something you've been getting for free all along: a chance at a parking space. These costs won't help get parking, the only reason is that UCD needs more money to build the 2 multistorey car parks (although I don't know what the plan with the second one is, I've only heard about the one they're putting on the tennis courts.)

The number of park & ride people is quite small anyway... although maybe it's time to do another survey on that.

cuckoo

ironclaw wrote: »

Out of interest, with the introduction of a permit and Pay N' Display, did the park and ride brigade move elsewhere? Or did it make much difference?

Massive difference. The Swan shopping centre car park in Rathmines always had a charge, so large numbers of people used to park on the surrounding streets.

ironclaw

RayCarley wrote: »

The number of park & ride people is quite small anyway... although maybe it's time to do another survey on that.

I'd completely disagree Ray. I often walk in well before 8am and the front car park is full with plenty of people walking out. Same at the Quinn school. Well dress, 30 somethings walking towards the N11. Its a serious problem. The demographic of the people and the cars alone is a dead give away.

RayCarley

ironclaw wrote: »

I'd completely disagree Ray. I often walk in well before 8am and the front car park is full with plenty of people walking out. Same at the Quinn school. Well dress, 30 somethings walking towards the N11. Its a serious problem. The demographic of the people and the cars alone is a dead give away.

I guess I'm never in early enough to see it. I've been told survey's have been done on it though and the amount of people was found to be quite minimal. Where are these people coming from anyway I wonder? Are there not buses that start further away from UCD into town?

Perhaps it would be worth doing a proper survey on it? Although if paid parking is definitely coming in next year I guess it doesn't matter does it?

ironclaw

RayCarley wrote: »

I guess I'm never in early enough to see it. I've been told survey's have been done on it though and the amount of people was found to be quite minimal. Where are these people coming from anyway I wonder? Are there not buses that start further away from UCD into town?

Perhaps it would be worth doing a proper survey on it? Although if paid parking is definitely coming in next year I guess it doesn't matter does it?

The difference between me getting a bus from Bray and from UCD into town is about a euro. But the time difference is massive. You'd easily beat an 84X bus by about 20 mins from Bray. And a 145 could be 40 mins slower. The fare saving is €5 a week or €260 a year. So if someone was getting free parking and saving €200 a year by getting the bus from UCD, its really a no brainer. You could say you'd burn that saving in driving to UCD in the morning but I wouldn't blame someone living south of Loughlinstown. After that its takes an age to get home.

I believe permits should also be issued based on commute distance much like res. I'm not saying out right discrimination but a percentage for those living far away (And no, I'm not suggesting Bray is far away. I'm actually quite well served)

Even if paid parking isn't introduced the very least should be a car registration system and a fee to do so (To avoid non driving students selling their registration spots) Parking in UCD on your commute on a daily basis just isn't on.

Tayto2000

Finally, first step towards getting the car parking under control, about time. I see from the letter that there's going to be a consultation process in March. If the whole campus is going to be pay and display, presumably some sort of permit system will have to be used again. Interesting to see whether there will be anything like a maximum dwell time or similar...

The park and riding issue is a red herring logistically speaking albeit an infuriating one. The surrounding estates are already jammed with people parking in them from 9am onwards. Assuming you were able to permanently clear out all the small number of park and riders you would at best achieve a slight delay in the carparks filling (given that people seem to be willing to spend up to an hour looking for a free space on campus). This would soon be eaten up by behaviour change (people who had previously gone to the estates at time n would go to the carparks instead at this time). The local residents might see a slight benefit maybe...

Last time the survey was done, a lot of the people you can still see parking in UCD and walking out to get buses turned out to be UCD students (and staff with business off campus...). The schools of nursing and medicine both moved to Belfield campus in the past decade from town and Ballsbridge which created huge extra parking demand. The big gravel "temporary" car parks may have been created partially in response to this. A lot of students from these schools are based in hospitals but were expected to attend lectures in UCD (Might have changed a bit with telecasting of lectures etc). Given the much stricter and more expensive parking regimes in place around the Coombe, Mater and St Vincents etc it makes a lot of sense to park and ride or walk from UCD. The parking regs don't specify that the staff or student's business has to be on the relevant campus to be allowed to park so it's legal under the current rules.

Here's another one for you - Campus residences. Parking for people staying in res has never been directly addressed with the result that a lot of people are now garaging their cars in the carparks during the week which effectively permanently reduces the number of spaces available to commuters. The remaining free parking area in Roebuck is half full even before anyone arrives in the mornings and the spaces opposite the steps to education are permanently full except for the wheelchair and pay and display spaces. Will this continue to be allowed?

Realistically, even if perfectly allocated and tightly controlled spaces were in place there's not going to be enough. 40% of staff drive and over 20% of students, that's roughly 6000 people looking to park in 3600 spaces. And of course and that doesn't include visitors, contractors etc. Strategically, improving alternative methods of getting to and around UCD alongside proper control and management of existing car parking spaces needs to happen as it's not going to be possible to just increase the spaces available. Pay parking isn't going to immediately fix anything by itself but it's definitely a step in the right direction anyway.

asdf1234

"a step in the right direction"? Certainly, if the intention of car parks is solely to benefit the wealthiest in our society. And make no mistake, if your first instinct is to think "Hurray, less people will park there now and i'll be grand" instead of "where the **** am I going to find the guts of a grand to pay for parking for the year" you certainly, completely, and unequivocally fall into that category.

ironclaw

Assuming a space is used for 6 hour day, at 3600 spaces, at 75% overall occupancy, that's €8.1k for that time span. Now multiply that out over the term or year. It's a personal ATM for UCD.

That's not taking into account the more expensive car parks and the fact they want to charge people 24/7 unlike a far more reasonable 'core hours only' charge.

It's utter lunacy and the SU really should be doing something about that. €50 flat fee permit for any student with a car and registered to that car. Done and dusted. There is no need to charge people by the hour.

asdf1234

Worth noting also that the plan is to reduce the total number of spaces from 3,600 to just 2,000 despite the year on year increase in the overall total of staff and students in UCD.

Tayto2000

asdf1234 wrote: »

"a step in the right direction"? Certainly, if the intention of car parks is solely to benefit the wealthiest in our society. And make no mistake, if your first instinct is to think "Hurray, less people will park there now and i'll be grand" instead of "where the **** am I going to find the guts of two grand to pay for parking for the year" you certainly, completely, and unequivocally fall into that category.

Lol, you're making a lot of assumptions about me personally there. Unfortunately I am neither rich nor under the mistaken impression that paid parking is going to create a utopia of effortless commuting in UCD. The openly stated intent of paid parking is to fund the commuting centres and to drive down parking demand by increasing the barriers to bringing a car onto campus. It'll achieve both of these aims albeit not in a way that is going to make many people happy. I'm afraid that my first thoughts were "Will there be affordable permits for staff and students?" and “will this end the park and ride issue?".

What I didn't do was have a panic attack about paying 2k a year in parking fees - all that has been decided so far is that the "base rate" (whatever that means) will be 50c per hour. That's the same as what is currently charged in the pay and display areas which are covered by a €50 annual permit. Permits are almost certainly going to feature, there have been hints about semesterised permits and multiple cars per registered user options on the commuting surveys as well.

There's no mention of core hours, peak hours, evening or weekend rates or anything else in the letter from Eamon Ceannt so it's also wrong to just multiply hours in UCD per week x €0.50 at this point.

As there is to be a consultation process first, there's a chance to engage and affect what shape the final system takes. This is something the SU could and should do for students. Beforehand, there's no point in throwing numbers based on assumptions around.

The only real surprise was that UCD have decided to be slightly egalitarian and charge staff as well. In most comparable institutions students either have no parking entitlement at all or have to pay for the privilege which is provided free to staff. Charging staff is likely to present the biggest obstacle as that will mean taking on the staff unions in the wake of Croke Park 2. There are some obvious opportunities for the SU there.

UnawareCaesar

ironclaw wrote: »

Assuming a space is used for 6 hour day, at 3600 spaces, at 75% overall occupancy, that's €8.1k for that time span. Now multiply that out over the term or year. It's a personal ATM for UCD.

That's not taking into account the more expensive car parks and the fact they want to charge people 24/7 unlike a far more reasonable 'core hours only' charge.

It's utter lunacy and the SU really should be doing something about that. €50 flat fee permit for any student with a car and registered to that car. Done and dusted. There is no need to charge people by the hour.

Going by you assumptions of 2700 spaces being filled for just six hours of the day, at 50 cent an hour for just the mon-fri of the two twelve weeks of the semester will net UCD €972,000 and those values are conservative enough.

RayCarley

I presume you all received the email from the consulting group asking us all to fill out a survey. From the questions and information on it, they seem to have it all fairly well thought out. I think everyone in this thread has quite an opinion on the matter, so I'd say it's worthwhile filling it out.

Chet T16

I filled it out. Reduced rates, yearly/semester passes, anpr and multiple cars per account mentioned. If they implement that I'll be happy enough.

n2o

RayCarley wrote: »

I presume you all received the email from the consulting group asking us all to fill out a survey. From the questions and information on it, they seem to have it all fairly well thought out. I think everyone in this thread has quite an opinion on the matter, so I'd say it's worthwhile filling it out.

I started filling it out but anger got the better of me.

Sample question

Paid parking is

a) great
b) wonderful
c) fantastic

It's constructed in such a way that it's meaningless.

work.inprocess

I'd love to be able to drive in in the mornings, even with the paid parking it would be cheaper than getting the (minimum) 4 buses a day but coming from Meath, I'm already getting up at around 5 in the morning to be in on time for a 9 o'clock lecture and that's without having to be there super early to get a car parking space. They really need to sort out some sort of multi story car park in UCD, I would love to drive the 40/45 minutes it would take me rather than the 2.5+ hours it takes on the bus, and I'm not even one of the people that comes from the furthest away every morning

bbuzz

work.inprocess wrote: »

I'd love to be able to drive in in the mornings, even with the paid parking it would be cheaper than getting the (minimum) 4 buses a day but coming from Meath, I'm already getting up at around 5 in the morning to be in on time for a 9 o'clock lecture and that's without having to be there super early to get a car parking space. They really need to sort out some sort of multi story car park in UCD, I would love to drive the 40/45 minutes it would take me rather than the 2.5+ hours it takes on the bus, and I'm not even one of the people that comes from the furthest away every morning

But if you're coming in for 9 there's always parking so why can't you drive? The gravel car park beside Quinn (the closest one to the M50) only fills up around 9.30.

Tayto2000

n2o wrote: »

It's constructed in such a way that it's meaningless.

It's constructed on the premise that paid parking is being implemented as decided by the UCD governing body - that's a given as per Eamonn Ceannt's letter. There's no option to have anything else on the consultancy survey, it's only about what form it will take.

Fill it out and make sure to express preference for discounted staff/student passes etc is my advice. Free parking evening and weekends when there's less pressure on spaces would help too.

asdf1234

See the 3 specially widened wheelchair-specific spaces which were strategically placed at the top of the concrete steps leading down to the 5-a-side soccer pitches for everything you need to know about the thought process behind UCD parking decisions.

RayCarley

asdf1234 wrote: »

See the 3 specially widened wheelchair-specific spaces which were strategically placed at the top of the concrete steps leading down to the 5-a-side soccer pitches for everything you need to know about the thought process behind UCD parking decisions.

Not to mention the 10 wheelchair spaces in the pay and display carpark just up from the running track. I've never seen them used. Surely it would be a better idea to have them spread out around campus instead of them putting their quote all in one car park.