Petsafe Wireless Containment system

ctlsleh

Hi,
Has anyone tried this or another brand of wireless containment? Have a beautiful Golden and he's starting to wonder.......am about to buy one of these for €300, this is the one without the boundary wire as i'm certain that will break and my boundary is difficult to dig up.

So interested in any advice on this wireless version or other brands that offer the same solution.

thanks.

kylith

Wireless fences are generally not well received around here, due to ethical concerns. Really you'll be better off with a well built fence. From my research e-fences too often fall somewhere between 'useless' and 'the dog will become terrified of its own garden'.

ctlsleh

Hi, thanks for the reply.......Id be interested in reading that research that you highlighted if you wouldnt mind sharing the details. Unfortunately building a wall/fence is not an option, we do have a 6' fence but he's digging underneath it....!......
so i'm looking for alternatives........

ISDW

Its amazing the amount of dogs that end up in the pound as strays still wearing their radio fence collars. In my opinion they are not a safe alternative to proper fencing. If he's digging under, could you put slabs around the edge of your garden? Or, if its big an area, build a dog run, with concrete or slabs at the edge to keep him contained.

TheMilkyPirate

kylith wrote: »

Wireless fences are generally not well received around here, due to ethical concerns. Really you'll be better off with a well built fence. From my research e-fences too often fall somewhere between 'useless' and 'the dog will become terrified of its own garden'.

It's a radio signal that gives a sensation similar to a static shock off a car door, its not a lightning bolt.

Plus the dog if trained properly will only get the signal two or three times he will know not to go there then as he will receive a warning tone before the signal line.

Boombastic

You have to train your dog where the boundary is. I know a person who got one of these and just let the dog out. Dog ended up in a life threatening situation

mymo

I've known two people used these, one dog just ran through it and kept running, never stopped her getting out. Another was running out also but wouldn't go back in as he knew he'd get shocked, he got hit by a car and killed 3 weeks after installation.
Personally I think they are barbaric, build a large run if you can't fence it. Walk the dog for exercise.

foreversky

im using petsafe stubborn collar.my lad knows where he can go now setttercross..over time il i hope to turn if on low or off. my sister has one to.much happier dog.cudt put fencing all round up.live on half an acre. good luck

borderlinemeath

baraca wrote: »

It's a radio signal that gives a sensation similar to a static shock off a car door, its not a lightning bolt.

Plus the dog if trained properly will only get the signal two or three times he will know not to go there then as he will receive a warning tone before the signal line.

How do you know? Did you try the collar on yourself, tight as you would have it on the dog?

The fallout from using these type of collars is usually a dog with behavioural problems. the dog is getting a shock. It doesn't know why, it may lash out at the nearest person or animal in response to getting a shock. That person may be the owner, it could be a visitor, postman, another dog in the household, a neighbours dog, whatever. But it can't attack the fence

Dogs that have a high prey drive will break through the barrier to get at something it considers valuable on the other side. A retriever is originally a working dog, bred to retrieve game so don't be surprised if your dog decides that getting out is worth the pain.

Dogs that are of a nervous nature can end up with zero quality of life due to these fences. A family member has just had to rehome her goldie due to using one of these fences. He veered between standing stock still at the back door for days on end or breaking out. It broke her heart but she had to give him a quality of life and that meant giving him up. She threw the collar in the bin the day he went.

borderlinemeath

foreversky wrote: »

im using petsafe stubborn collar.my lad knows where he can go now setttercross..over time il i hope to turn if on low or off. my sister has one to.much happier dog.cudt put fencing all round up.live on half an acre. good luck

Couldn't? Or wouldn't? :rolleyes:

I live on an acre and I have it like fort knox for the dogs. It's an easy fix.

TooManyDogs

Been there, bought the system, and regretted it pretty much every day I had it in place because it A) didn't work, and I felt horrendous seeing the effect the shocks were having on my dogs despite the 2 weeks of very careful training.
Total waste of money that I could have put into the fencing I had to buy in the end.

BTW it's not even close to an static shock, more like an electric cow fence, I'd suggest you find someone who has a fence in place and try out the collar on your own inside wrist or neck and then decide if you're prepared to put the same device on your dog.

ISDW

borderlinemeath wrote: »

[/B]


Couldn't? Or wouldn't? :rolleyes:

I live on an acre and I have it like fort knox for the dogs. It's an easy fix.

I have 2.2 acres, 2 acres of it is securely fenced for my dogs

TheMilkyPirate

borderlinemeath wrote: »

How do you know? Did you try the collar on yourself, tight as you would have it on the dog?

The fallout from using these type of collars is usually a dog with behavioural problems. the dog is getting a shock. It doesn't know why, it may lash out at the nearest person or animal in response to getting a shock. That person may be the owner, it could be a visitor, postman, another dog in the household, a neighbours dog, whatever. But it can't attack the fence

Dogs that have a high prey drive will break through the barrier to get at something it considers valuable on the other side. A retriever is originally a working dog, bred to retrieve game so don't be surprised if your dog decides that getting out is worth the pain.

Dogs that are of a nervous nature can end up with zero quality of life due to these fences. A family member has just had to rehome her goldie due to using one of these fences. He veered between standing stock still at the back door for days on end or breaking out. It broke her heart but she had to give him a quality of life and that meant giving him up. She threw the collar in the bin the day he went.

Yes, regulary. I work in a Petshop so often have to test them/Show a customer how it works. It's no where near the level of shock from an electric cow fence.

ctlsleh

Do they work though, that's the question? seems to be about 50/50 based on replies so far.......

Im thinking that this together with a reinforced fence might be the only way to keep the fella in......

borderlinemeath

baraca wrote: »

Yes, regulary. I work in a Petshop so often have to test them/Show a customer how it works. It's no where near the level of shock from an electric cow fence.

Riiight. So you're in the business of selling them. :rolleyes:

I'd imagine if you worked in a builders providers or the like then you would maybe be pushing the fence option;).

TheMilkyPirate

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Riiight. So you're in the business of selling them. :rolleyes:

I'd imagine if you worked in a builders providers or the like then you would maybe be pushing the fence option;).

I couldn't care less if they sell well or not i'm not on commission, Just giving my experience of them.

borderlinemeath

baraca wrote: »

I couldn't care less if they sell well or not i'm not on commission, Just giving my experience of them.

So you have no actual experience of using them? Only selling them? So you haven't experienced the dog traumatised because of the shock? Or a farmer on your doorstep because your dog has broken through the pain barrier and killed his sheep?

TheMilkyPirate

borderlinemeath wrote: »

So you have no actual experience of using them? Only selling them? So you haven't experienced the dog traumatised because of the shock? Or a farmer on your doorstep because your dog has broken through the pain barrier and killed his sheep?

Me personally, No. But my sister has used one for 5 years on three different dogs, An akita a German shephard and a springer. Never had any problems. The dogs have certainly never been "traumatised"

I'm not looking for an argument here I'm just giving a different side to the story.

borderlinemeath

baraca wrote: »

Me personally, No. But my sister has used one for 5 years on three different dogs, An akita a German shephard and a springer. Never had any problems. The dogs have certainly never been "traumatised"

I'm not looking for an argument here I'm just giving a different side to the story.

As stated previously a family member used one and only recently had to rehome her dog because of it. The dog is two but the first I heard of her having problems with it was last week. And the problems had been going on since last year. So by your sister not having any problems doesn't mean much, she may not say if one of the dogs broke out, or is off form, or nipped her or one of the other dogs.

Does she still have all three dogs by the way?

Rommie

baraca wrote: »

Me personally, No. But my sister has used one for 5 years on three different dogs, An akita a German shephard and a springer. Never had any problems. The dogs have certainly never been "traumatised"

I'm not looking for an argument here I'm just giving a different side to the story.

I live with a person who has three akitas and I can guarantee if they saw something on the opposite side of this fence and wanted to get at it, nothing would stop them. Obviously she doesn't use them because her dogs are under control and fenced in, as they should be, but I've seen them get hurt and not even bat an eyelid. One walked into a stone pillar one day because he was distracted looking at another dog and just shook himself and carried on. They grab each other's faces with their teeth and drag each other around the garden, they're not going to be stopped by something like that. Most big dogs just will not feel the shock, and even if they do, if they see something enticing, nothing's going to stop them going through it.

TheMilkyPirate

borderlinemeath wrote: »

As stated previously a family member used one and only recently had to rehome her dog because of it. The dog is two but the first I heard of her having problems with it was last week. And the problems had been going on since last year. So by your sister not having any problems doesn't mean much, she may not say if one of the dogs broke out, or is off form, or nipped her or one of the other dogs.

Does she still have all three dogs by the way?

Still has the Akita and German shephard, springer died arising from complications after giving birth about 7 months ago.

Once again I'm not looking for an argument just simply giving another view on things.

jamesd

I have one on our Akita for 4 years, never got out outside of our 1 acre site,
knows when it beeps to back away.

There are people walking their dogs by our wall all evening and he knows that he can go to the limit and then when it beeps he reverses.

Galway K9

people are trying to draw a line between black and white, its not like that. its completely based on the dogs temperament (stability) and the brand of fence.

final note: no, they shouldn't be easily sale able as many abuse or the uneducated use them unknowing of the dogs temperament or a poor brand just giving out shocks without care of the particular dog (yes they have settings per size, but its temperament that determines safe or not), no, they're not safe in general use. investigate more.....or the most honest or inconvenient , learn why dog is wandering and address that without a quick fix.

best of luck OP

mosi

Any that I have come across do not work. My parents' neighbours have one and their GSD keeps getting out and charging across the road at people walking past. Their other dog got through it a while back and hasn't been seen since. Two previous dogs were killed on the road. Says it all really.

siralan

I purchased a pet containment system from Irish Pet Supplies.ie, the make is PetSafe. It cost 289 but because its wireless it only took me 10 mins to set up and I have never really had a problem. I have changed the battery once after about 4/5 months and at a cost of 8euro. There are also cheaper options on Ebay (less than 90euro) which may be worth a punt at that price. I dont think any of the systems give an actual 'electric shock' because the battery is only a little chubbier than what you would see in a remote control. However, I have never actually tested it myself so I cant be sure!!
I still would prefer an enclosed area than having to put an electric collar on the dog but at my own house its just not practic to fence it all off. One thing I would say is to think everything out before buying a dog, they aint cheap full stop!

The Sweeper

Youtube is full of videos of people trying their electric shock collars on themselves. Many of them involve young people laughing their heads off when they get electrocuted (usually after screaming when they get shocked) - but every one of them seem to agree it bloody hurts.

If you need to bloody hurt your dog to train it, you're doing it wrong.

DBB

The Sweeper wrote: »

If you need to bloody hurt your dog to train it, you're doing it wrong.

I can link to websites, professional dog training organisations, dog research facilities, and research papers... But this one line sums it all up.

Nody

This is a good compilation for the "it does not really hurt" advocates showing of various people, settings and collars; this is what you're putting your dog through and calling it training.

siralan

To anyone who thinks a collar is in anyway cruel, try taking your dog off the road 5 mins after its been crossed by a lorry. I have no embarrassment in saying it was probably one of the saddest moments I ever experienced a few years ago. Hence our decision to put a collar on our dog now. We all heard many stories of dogs rambling and killing sheep or getting shot by farmers protecting their sheep.

DBB

siralan wrote: »

To anyone who thinks a collar is in anyway cruel, try taking your dog off the road 5 mins after its been crossed by a lorry.

Oh I know, I've been there too siralan. Awful. But in my case, the dog WAS wearing a radio collar, but because he was more motivated to get out the gate at that moment, than he was worried or influenced about the shock he'd get from the collar, he died.
That was many years ago now, I've learned a lot since then.
I do think these collars are cruel. I won't even begin to tell you the horrible results I've seen in dogs that have to wear them. Justify it whatever way you like, but the collars cannot work without pain, and I will not ever again try to justify using pain in the name of any form of training. At that time, I was just ignorant.
I stop my dogs getting out on the road now with an ethical, pain-free, fallout-free, 100% effective fence.

kylith

The problem is that there are numerous reports of dogs going through these electric fences to get to something they feel is worth the pain. If you really want to keep your dog off the road, or away from livestock, a secure fence is the only thing that can be relied on.

ISDW

siralan wrote: »

To anyone who thinks a collar is in anyway cruel, try taking your dog off the road 5 mins after its been crossed by a lorry. I have no embarrassment in saying it was probably one of the saddest moments I ever experienced a few years ago. Hence our decision to put a collar on our dog now. We all heard many stories of dogs rambling and killing sheep or getting shot by farmers protecting their sheep.

And most of us have also heard the stories of the large amount of dogs that end up in pounds still wearing the collars. Or of the dogs shot in a field of sheep, still wearing their electric collar. I had a call from a distraught woman a couple of years ago, both of her huskies had electric collars and the local farmer brought their bodies back to her, they had been shot in his field full of sheep. She wanted to adopt another husky, and was putting fencing up instead of the collars, she was inconsolable.

Nody

siralan wrote: »

To anyone who thinks a collar is in anyway cruel, try taking your dog off the road 5 mins after its been crossed by a lorry. I have no embarrassment in saying it was probably one of the saddest moments I ever experienced a few years ago. Hence our decision to put a collar on our dog now. We all heard many stories of dogs rambling and killing sheep or getting shot by farmers protecting their sheep.

How about being a responsible owner and actually train your dog and fence in the area instead of relying on a insecure, crude and cruel tool trying to do the job for you?

DBB

Nody, we can all make our point without casting aspersions on one's dog owning capabilities.
Let's keep it civil, please.
Do not reply to this post on-thread.
Thanks,
DBB

TooManyDogs

Yep back in my ignorant days I also had these collars and 2 would always break out. So that made it only 50% effective, now I have a proper fence, no more problem

The Bishop Basher

I've seen them used effectively with no adverse effects on the dogs whatsoever. I've also seen them used where they just had no effect at all and as such were useless. I agree with the poster above who says it depends on the breed and the temperament of the dog.

While I broadly agree with not using pain to teach dogs I also think we have taken some of these theory's too far in this PC world. I've raised many dogs over the years and in the good old days I house trained them by shoving their nose in it and giving them a smack. They were still all happy healthy dogs and I had a fantastic lifelong relationship with all of them. I know better now and use different methods but I do often wonder have we taken some of it too far. Even humans learn what to avoid through painful stimuli. I've often let my kids do something daft where I know the outcome will teach them a life long lesson. It's how we learn.

I also know the heartache of picking your dead pet up off the road. I saw it happen to my own and thank god no one was hurt. Fences are great and should be a first line of defence but it's not always practical for everyone and I have yet to own a dog that won't find a way through sooner or later.

Anyway different strokes for different folks. Just my 2 cents.

andreac

Swanner wrote: »

Fences are great and should be a first line of defence but it's not always practical for everyone and I have yet to own a dog that won't find a way through sooner or later.

Anyway different strokes for different folks. Just my 2 cents.

If its not practical, or the basic thing you can provide for your dog, ie repsonsible, safe containment, then you shouldnt get a dog, end of.

People are too quick to take the easy way out for themselves and look for quick, easy options to save them time and money, which for most of the time, means the poor dog is the one that always suffers for it

snoman

posters who use the phrase 'end of' are not in the business of exchanging opinions, only of imposing them.

The Bishop Basher

andreac wrote: »

If its not practical, or the basic thing you can provide for your dog, ie repsonsible, safe containment, then you shouldnt get a dog, end of.

People are too quick to take the easy way out for themselves and look for quick, easy options to save them time and money, which for most of the time, means the poor dog is the one that always suffers for it

I would say the basic things I provide for my dogs are food, shelter and love so we differ on that. I also have fencing installed and have a safe environment for my dogs to enjoy. Unfortunatley however I don't live in a perfect world. All sorts of things happen around my fence. Wild animals burrow in and out. Other people come in and out and can leave gates open which is how a previous dog was killed, and dogs, being dogs, can and will on occasion find a way out. It's what they do.

I haven't seen anyone looking for an easy or cheap way out of anything on this thread. Opinions can and will differ on certain topics. That's ok. It doesn't however give any poster a monopoly on what's right and wrong.

andreac

If you get a dog you are responsible for its well being and safety and that means providing adequate, responsible and humane methods of containment which does not include giving your dog electric shocks.

When i say end of, i mean you should ensure that you can keep your dog safe by resonsible means and one that doesnt inflict pain on it. An electric shock collar is not one of these and how anyone can actual use one on their beloved pets doesnt deserve one in the first place, in my opinion.
Would you shock you children with collars for running outside of the garden when they arent suppsoed to go that far etc etc? No, so why would you think its ok to do it on a defenceless animal and see and hear them cry in pain when they are shocked.

andreac

CJhaughey wrote: »

OP You would be better off asking in the Hunting forum, there are a lot of dog owners there that happily use these with working dogs and have no issues, this forum is populated by many who anthropomorphise their animals and have difficulties with those that don't.

Why do think its ok to give your dog an electric shock and inflict pain on it?

snoman

I defend absolutely your right to have your opinion, to express it and to defend it. Indeed, broadly speaking, I agree with you. I also feel that these forums work best on the basis of people expressing both sides of the argument and allowing others to make up their own minds. There are certain phrases that just mean 'end of discussion'.

Whilst there is discussion there is hope of change.

andreac

But snoman, when a pets welfare comes into it, and someone wants to use a piece of equipment that intentionally inflicts pain and hurts a dog, i really dont understand how someone can defend these items, i really dont.

The Bishop Basher

andreac wrote: »

Would you shock you children with collars for running outside of the garden when they arent suppsoed to go that far etc etc? No, so why would you think its ok to do it on a defenceless animal and see and hear them cry in pain when they are shocked.

But we're not talking about children. We're talking about dogs. I made the comparison in a previous post on the basis that what's good enough for my kids is good enough for my dogs. That doesn't work the other way round though.

I have never seen a dog yelp in pain from one of these systems. I have seen them recoil from the fence in the same way a cow or horse will recoil from an electric fence. The same way my child will recoil when they touch something hot.

I suppose where we differ is that some people consider this cruelty. I don't. I just think a sense of perspective is required here.

andreac

Have you even watched the video that someone posted on this thread when people are using the collars? Please watch it and tell me that the dogs are not in pain...

Just because you havent seen a dog yourself yelp in pain doesnt mean others dont yelp in pain. Its a shock, how could it be any way pleasant?

There are no need for these things when there are plenty of other safe and humane ways to contain your dog. They are a lazy way out for the dog owner, not for the poor dogs though.

DBB

CJhaughey wrote: »

OP You would be better off asking in the Hunting forum, there are a lot of dog owners there that happily use these with working dogs and have no issues, this forum is populated by many who anthropomorphise their animals and have difficulties with those that don't.

CJhaughey, do not come into this forum again if your sole aim is to scorn the users of the forum. Consider this a final warning.
Do not reply to this post on thread.
Thanks,
DBB

snoman

andreac wrote: »

But snoman, when a pets welfare comes into it, and someone wants to use a piece of equipment that intentionally inflicts pain and hurts a dog, i really dont understand how someone can defend these items, i really dont.

The problem with pet welfare is that it is an extremely emotive subject. Experienced, seasoned contributers to these forums can have strong and, sometimes, explosive responses to a query that is posted. In my opinion people can be influenced and learn in this forum (I have), but only if they remain on it. If a new OP gets an agressive response then you lose them, if you can engage them in discussion you can sway them.

Sorry, I know this is completly off subject.

2 stroke

snoman wrote: »

The problem with pet welfare is that it is an extremely emotive subject. Experienced, seasoned contributers to these forums can have strong and, sometimes, explosive responses to a query that is posted. In my opinion people can be influenced and learn in this forum (I have), but only if they remain on it. If a new OP gets an agressive response then you lose them, if you can engage them in discussion you can sway them.

Sorry, I know this is completly off subject.

I use the wired system and find it brilliant, however I train a dog to its territory before using the collar, the property is also fenced, but I worry about people leaving the gate open.
One important thing, esp if using the wired system, your property has to be big enough, mine has a warning distance of 8 feet, which is 16 feet off the width of the garden, when you add up both sides, it wouldn't leave much room for a dog in your average housing estate garden, couldn't blame him for leaving.

The Bishop Basher

andreac wrote: »

Have you even watched the video that someone posted on this thread when people are using the collars? Please watch it and tell me that the dogs are not in pain...

Just because you havent seen a dog yourself yelp in pain doesnt mean others dont yelp in pain. Its a shock, how could it be any way pleasant?

There are no need for these things when there are plenty of other safe and humane ways to contain your dog. They are a lazy way out for the dog owner, not for the poor dogs though.

Yes. I saw a bunch of humans being dramatic for their friends and for the camera. If they didn't make it look dramatic it wouldn't be entertainment and there wouldn't be much point posting it. It's not exactly proof of anything.

I have also watched the numerous videos of people using these collars to successfully train happy and healthy dogs. The difference being I have looked at them objectively.

I'm not saying one is right and one is wrong. I'm saying we should view these topics with a little perspective and an open mind.

andreac

Oh yeah, thats typical of someone who doesnt want to believe these are cruel and inflict pain on animals. They are being dramatic. Didnt look dramatic to me, they look genuinely in pain.

An open mind when it comes to animal cruelty?? There should only be one view of it and that its wrong.

God i feel sorry for anyones pet who's owner uses these on them, and thats the last i have to say now in this thread, im out.

borderlinemeath

2 stroke wrote: »

I use the wired system and find it brilliant, however I train a dog to its territory before using the collar, the property is also fenced, but I worry about people leaving the gate open.
One important thing, esp if using the wired system, your property has to be big enough, mine has a warning distance of 8 feet, which is 16 feet off the width of the garden, when you add up both sides, it wouldn't leave much room for a dog in your average housing estate garden, couldn't blame him for leaving.

No matter how well you think you might train a dog - the risk is always there that the prey on the other side of the fence is worth the pain. Problem is, what's the incentive to get back in? None.

There's far too much risk involved using an electric fence, risk that the dog will take the pain and break through the fence, risk that they are clever enough to wear down the battery and go through pain free, risk that they get a shock and they don't know what it is and they lash out and bite the nearest person/animal, risk that it will make them so nervous of entering and exiting their own gate without associating it with the collar.