AAI and grassroots support

RayCun

Following on from the other thread, and since the AAI AGM is coming up....

What should the AAI be doing to support the development of grassroots athletics? To help clubs? To take advantage of the running boom? Specifically.

rom

- Give support in making big race days family day out. There is no reason why kids could not try throws or sprints while waiting for mom or dad to come back from the 1/2 marathon ?
- Work with councils so that area's used by a lot of runners have proper toilet facilities and lighting so they can be used all year round and not just in the summer for those of us that work during the day. I don't mind paying but having no toilet and no lighting on the Mahon loop in Cork is a joke. The same probably holds true in popular routes throughout the country.

RayCun

why are these AAI rather than race organiser and local club issues?

Tom Joad

More promotion would be a good start - the job I had to find out where the local clubs are was a real eye opener and to get info. Could the AAI help clubs promote themselves, even use template/ off the shelf websites?

Another one - might sound daft but a guide to setting up a club - there is no club in my area - nearest one is 10 mile away. Couldn't do it at the minute due to other commitments but it is something I would like to assist with in my area in a few years (kids would be of age to take part in Athletics).

Are the AAI getting into the schools via promotion etc..

vitani

Tom Joad wrote: »

More promotion would be a good start - the job I had to find out where the local clubs are was a real eye opener and to get info. Could the AAI help clubs promote themselves, even use template/ off the shelf websites?

Another one - might sound daft but a guide to setting up a club - there is no club in my area - nearest one is 10 mile away. Couldn't do it at the minute due to other commitments but it is something I would like to assist with in my area in a few years (kids would be of age to take part in Athletics).

Are the AAI getting into the schools via promotion etc..

Just a thought on this - I got my number for the Operation Transformation 5k today from the AAI. In the envelope was a flier for the Dunboyne 4m and a flier for a subscription to Irish Runner magazine. I'm wondering about the logistics of including details of local clubs for any unaffiliated person that signs up for a race with them. They could have a few different premade fliers with club details (Leinster, Munster etc) and just whack the relevant one in the envelope.

myflipflops

Set up a road race section to the organisation with a view to making a profit. Invest said profit back into the sport. Try and take hold of the sport at that level in the manner that that the GAA, the IRFU and the FAI do. They could also consider tapping into the general running/fitness 'boom' by organising running camps, 'boot' camps etc. Surely people would be attracted to a running camp endorsed/organised by the national athletics association?

Why the f*ck are they letting cowboys like the Rock n Roll people bastardise the Irish half marathon champs and make a load of money out of it?

rom

RayCun wrote: »

why are these AAI rather than race organiser and local club issues?

I see your point. I suppose improve this part of their site. Have direct links to each of the clubs websites.

http://www.athleticsireland.ie/content/?page_id=5996

Be represented or give out flyers or ask race organiser to bundle join a club flyer with race packs. I should be getting one of those with every race I enter. The flyer could have a few testimonials showing that clubs are there for all levels of ability, do they have a fit for life etc

The above page should cover the demographic of the clubs and the breakdown of male/female and age groups represented and what events are catered for at the club. Have a FAQ for new members.

For young kids have incentives to do every event. Target gym goers. If they have a yearly race where a club gets sponsorship from a local sports shop. Have them put running club flyer in the bags of people buying runners. I know this is on a per club basis but AAI could help with a template professionally developed that the club could use.

We all go through a lot of runners. AAI could have us donate our old runners to needing charities on a national level.

Organise road relays to give a more spectator friendly event. Would love to see something like they do in Japan on a smaller scale.

Do a deal with a big sports brand/shop where AAI members get a good discount and AAI get payment to be associated with. Thing of it as O'Neills when it comes to GAA. This could be expanded into club gear so that clubs would only have to provided designs but the big buying power of AAI would make club gear cheaper.

notsofast

Schools events are more popular than club events in that everyone likes a day off from school. A lot of the talent on show are involved in club athletics but there are lots that are not. More could be done to get encourage those showing promise into their local club.

rom

notsofast wrote: »

Schools events are more popular than club events in that everyone likes a day off from school. A lot of the talent on show are involved in club athletics but there are lots that are not. More could be done to get encourage those showing promise into their local club.

To be honest they don't have to show promise also. Like I know someone who did very well in AIT over the weekend and when he was in school he was well down the list in all races. Clubs should welcome all not just those with "promise".

ChickenTikka

Tom Joad wrote: »

Another one - might sound daft but a guide to setting up a club

Go to www.athleticsireland.ie.
Hover over "Development/Clubs" on the top menu bar.
Select the link for "Starting a Club"

ChickenTikka

rom wrote: »

We all go through a lot of runners. AAI could have us donate our old runners to needing charities on a national level.

They can still compete with their club in the O35 and older categories.:D

ChickenTikka

Tom Joad wrote: »

Are the AAI getting into the schools via promotion etc..

I think that's the key ... the sport is not closely enough tied into secondary schools. Its the poor cousin for alot of schools. While many schools take part, its more like a day off school than a serious competition for them until they get to regional level.

If more funding were available, I think having a number of paid coaches within each region who can offer their services to interested schools would help, i.e. a full-time role of visiting schools and coaching. Not sure if/how other sports do it but I think they have such structures.

Provide some scholarships for athletes to go to teacher training colleges - to 'infiltrate' the primary school system with teachers whose main sport is athletics. 10 scholarships each worth 2k, x 3 years in teacher training college = 60k. Not a huge amount of money, but 10 teachers a year coming into the system. In 10 years, that's 100 teachers whose main sport is athletics.

Pisco Sour

Depends where the focus is but if it's grassroots then the model down here in Melbourne is certainly something where ideas could be taken from. Granted there's less clubs here so easier to organise but there's a much greater focus on grassroots within all aspects of the sport (not just road races) here than at home.

The main interclub competition is the AV Shield. Basically Victoria is divided up into 6 regions, and within each region there are numerous leagues (Men's Div 1, Div 2, Div 3, Women's Div 1, Div 2, Men's O40, Women's O40, Men's U20, U18, U16, U14, Women's U20, U18, U16, U14). Each region has 12 rounds of the AV Shield, where (depending on event and division) up to 6 people can score points for a club per event. As a result everybody has a role in the club's success, whether a small part or big part. Sometimes you have to just get your 6 guys out there in an event, and the last guy could be very slow but he scores points for the team. At the end of the 12 rounds the top teams in each division from each region qualify for the AV Shield Final where again up to 6 from each club can compete in an event.

These meets each week are very well attended. Usually you will have 40 heats of the 100m or 200m, with people from all ages competing. It's all graded based on your standard, so you get to race against people of the same level. Make no mistake this isn't a competition just for slow people, it's the primary interclub competition in the state and some of the top guys compete also. Tamsyn Lewis was running Shield Final the other day.

The setup fosters more of a club culture IMO and everybody feels part of it. You regularly see people step out of their comfort zone to try field events or whatever when needed to help the club score points. At this stage I've tried nearly every event on the programme (except hurdles, hammer, walk and steeple). This is a fun set up, and you can really see how much people enjoy it, especially the kids.

It's very different to how the interclub competition is run in Ireland. There's just 2 rounds where only 1 person can score points for a club in each event. Then a grand final where the same thing happens. This makes it more along the lines of an elite competition rather than grassroots IMO. If I was with a club like Crusaders, DSD or whoever I would have no real role to play in this competition unless needed to do the walk to score points or something because nobody else wants to!

If/when I come home I will join a club as I've got to the level now where I can be semi-respectable in the sprints, but had I not come out here and seen the "cater for all standards"competition and culture in place for Track and Field I doubt very much I would have ever taken up sprinting. Why would I look for a sprint group in my mid 20s when I was starting off at around 65 seconds for 400m. There's nothing there for somebody at that level who wants to take up the sport as an adult.

Of course it's not so simple to just copy the idea, as there are more clubs here (though many with no real T&F culture), less tracks etc, but certainly certain ideas can be taken from how they do things in Victoria.

That is, if grassroots is the way people want to go. Plenty of valid arguments have been made in the past that this route shouldn't be the focus, but for the purpose of this thread this would be my experience of it anyway.

http://athsvic.org.au/competitions-info/av-shield

Also the Little Aths setup down here is second to none, with a few notable Irish athletes raving about how impressive and structured it was on a recent visit here.

http://www.lavic.com.au/site/index.cfm?fuseaction=display_main&OrgID=3662

RayCun

myflipflops wrote: »

They could also consider tapping into the general running/fitness 'boom' by organising running camps, 'boot' camps etc.

But shouldn't this be done by clubs instead? If the AAI wanted to run a running/boot camp in Phoenix Park for ten weeks, they'd be looking for people from clubs to do some/all of the training. And they'd want to pass the people on to clubs at the end of the process, so they stay in the system. And the clubs would have to be ready to take on a bunch of new members who are at the 'just learned to run' stage. So why does the AAI have to be involved, beyond maybe lending their name to the camp?

RayCun

Pisco Sour wrote: »

The main interclub competition is the AV Shield.

Wouldn't the equivalent here be a Dublin competition, to be run by the Dublin Athletic Board, maybe through the graded meets?

Pisco Sour

RayCun wrote: »

Wouldn't the equivalent here be a Dublin competition, to be run by the Dublin Athletic Board, maybe through the graded meets?

Nah, Victoria is around the population of Ireland and the governing body Athletics Victoria organise their competition for the whole state. It's not just for Melbourne. There's a Geelong region, Ballarat region and Bendigo region.

It must also be mentioned that AV have less staff than the AAI, and have bugger all funding but they do a good job with what they have, built on a very strong volunteer system.

plodder

Pisco Sour wrote: »

Nah, Victoria is around the population of Ireland and the governing body Athletics Victoria organise their competition for the whole state. It's not just for Melbourne. There's a Geelong region, Ballarat region and Bendigo region.

Victoria - population 5.6 million and 6 regions. Ireland - population 6.4 million, but 32 separate county boards (or is it 4.5 million with 26 counties?). Either way there's a big difference in the population catchment per region and presumably the number of available administrators/volunteers.

In any case, I don't know why the idea sounds so radical. That's how other sports are organised here. Many people like to compete whatever level they're at.

As you say though, it's a question of whether the sport wants to go down this route. It's clear that some people don't.

Letyourselfgo

ChickenTikka wrote: »

I think that's the key ... the sport is not closely enough tied into secondary schools. Its the poor cousin for alot of schools. While many schools take part, its more like a day off school than a serious competition for them until they get to regional level.

If more funding were available, I think having a number of paid coaches within each region who can offer their services to interested schools would help, i.e. a full-time role of visiting schools and coaching. Not sure if/how other sports do it but I think they have such structures.

Provide some scholarships for athletes to go to teacher training colleges - to 'infiltrate' the primary school system with teachers whose main sport is athletics. 10 scholarships each worth 2k, x 3 years in teacher training college = 60k. Not a huge amount of money, but 10 teachers a year coming into the system. In 10 years, that's 100 teachers whose main sport is athletics.

This is it in a nut shell.

We have to attack the schools and I feel it should be done at primary level. Secondary is too late as most kids will have picked their sport by then.
One suggestion I can think of to add to the above is to get the AAI and maybe even the local running clubs more involved in the school sports day. Give the AAI/local club a chance to show the parents aswell as the kids what they are about.

Letyourselfgo

Another suggestion
Why not pay the likes of Brian Gregan or Fionnuala Britton to go around to the primary schools and talk to the classes directly. Not sure how realistic this is for the above athletes but maybe those who will be finishing up in the next year or two, Gillick?
We need to sell our sport.

Also I think it could be worth reading this thread again as it follows a similar theme
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056724336

myflipflops

RayCun wrote: »

So why does the AAI have to be involved, beyond maybe lending their name to the camp?

I mean they should look to run these like a business. Organise road races and running camps like a business. Employ people to do it just like the private enterprises organising road races and boot camps do. Pump the profits into the sport.

As I say, why let Rock n Roll marathon piggy back on the national half. AAI can run it as a mass participation event and give huge precedence to the national championships alongside making money.

ecoli

I agree with MFF there is potential for the sport to generate much needed funds (probably more so than most sports giving the popularity of Road Racing)

I think the lads are on the right track regarding schools the profile of the sport needs to be pushed on to people the sport hides in the background most of the time any only gets any attention when there is drama (which there has been alot over the past five years) or medal winning performances. We need to expose people to the middle ground.

I am glad someone mentioned top athletes touring giving talks this was along the lines with what I was think (admittedly I was thinking more at a club level than school but both would be benficial)

Things like an AAI Summer camp could be a good source of income for the organisation (though this could probably be passed down to a club level)

As Cringe worthy as it was the NYRR expo with how long can you keep up with Ryan Hall has some merit. People need to be able to have a comparable to appreciate the level of our athletes as oppose to the rare glimpse they see every four years when they struggle at global finals.

Something like a Mission Marathon athlete v Spectator Relay team over 10 miles at 1k-1 mile legs is just a crude idea but there needs to be a novelty element to attract arm chair fans initially till the profile grows to the point where people actually realise the level of our athletes as opposed to the "sure they are just running around in circles" mentality

Pisco Sour

ecoli wrote: »

I agree with MFF there is potential for the sport to generate much needed funds (probably more so than most sports giving the popularity of Road Racing)

I think the lads are on the right track regarding schools the profile of the sport needs to be pushed on to people the sport hides in the background most of the time any only gets any attention when there is drama (which there has been alot over the past five years) or medal winning performances. We need to expose people to the middle ground.

I am glad someone mentioned top athletes touring giving talks this was along the lines with what I was think (admittedly I was thinking more at a club level than school but both would be benficial)

Things like an AAI Summer camp could be a good source of income for the organisation (though this could probably be passed down to a club level)

As Cringe worthy as it was the NYRR expo with how long can you keep up with Ryan Hall has some merit. People need to be able to have a comparable to appreciate the level of our athletes as oppose to the rare glimpse they see every four years when they struggle at global finals.

Something like a Mission Marathon athlete v Spectator Relay team over 10 miles at 1k-1 mile legs is just a crude idea but there needs to be a novelty element to attract arm chair fans initially till the profile grows to the point where people actually realise the level of our athletes as opposed to the "sure they are just running around in circles" mentality

I've always liked the idea of novalty meets which you dont see very often. Remember the hype with Bailey V Johnson over 150m. Maybe we could do our own sort of thing? Gregan V Mad Len over 600m, Derval V Jessie Barr over 200m hurdles. That sort of thing. Throw away the clocks and make it about head to heads.

ecoli

Pisco Sour wrote: »

I've always liked the idea of novalty meets which you dont see very often. Remember the hype with Bailey V Johnson over 150m. Maybe we could do our own sort of thing? Gregan V Mad Len over 600m, Derval V Jessie Barr over 200m hurdles. That sort of thing. Throw away the clocks and make it about head to heads.

Will that change anything outside the running community though? We need to break outside that bubble and increase the profile hence the participation element to make people aware of just how fast a sub 2.20 marathon or sub 14 5k

If people get a bit more awareness of our sport and our athletes it will in turn have an effect on the appreciation which can restore it as a viable hobby at school level as opposed to the "Day off school" mentality which I had to use back in my school days to actually get a school athletics team up and running to be allowed to compete myself

average_runner

Pisco Sour wrote: »

I've always liked the idea of novalty meets which you dont see very often. Remember the hype with Bailey V Johnson over 150m. Maybe we could do our own sort of thing? Gregan V Mad Len over 600m, Derval V Jessie Barr over 200m hurdles. That sort of thing. Throw away the clocks and make it about head to heads.

No offence, but kids and people outside the sport wouldn't have a clue who you are talking about.

Hard Worker

myflipflops wrote: »

Set up a road race section to the organisation with a view to making a profit. Invest said profit back into the sport. Try and take hold of the sport at that level in the manner that that the GAA, the IRFU and the FAI do. They could also consider tapping into the general running/fitness 'boom' by organising running camps, 'boot' camps etc. Surely people would be attracted to a running camp endorsed/organised by the national athletics association?

Why the f*ck are they letting cowboys like the Rock n Roll people bastardise the Irish half marathon champs and make a load of money out of it?

I think that is already in place. AAI organise a number of mass participation road events and get a substantial sum from doing so. The Rock & Roll event is one and the Spar Great Ireland Run is another. There are other races too.

ecoli

Hard Worker wrote: »

I think that is already in place. AAI organise a number of mass participation road events and get a substantial sum from doing so. The Rock & Roll event is one and the Spar Great Ireland Run is another. There are other races too.

I think he actually means a stand alone AAI mass participation run event rather than getting a percentage for aligning the national championships with foreign based company for profit races (Nova and the Competitor Group, Inc)

RayCun

The AAI don't have the people to put on a mass road race themselves though, do they? So if they put on a race with Samsung or the Rock n Roll crowd, that's essentially doing the same thing - raising money by organising road races.

Sure, they could go further ... but then we'd be complaining about the AAI cannibalising club races and milking road runners :pac:

ecoli

RayCun wrote: »

The AAI don't have the people to put on a mass road race themselves though, do they? So if they put on a race with Samsung or the Rock n Roll crowd, that's essentially doing the same thing - raising money by organising road races.

Sure, they could go further ... but then we'd be complaining about the AAI cannibalising club races and milking road runners :pac:

Think the difference is the how does the percentage recieved by the AAI compare with the likes of the profits made by GIR or the RR Half (I would imagine they are minimal given the fact these are companies have this sole purpose in mind, they are not charities)

I thinka handful of races throughout the year (perhaps a similar races series early year) could provide enough work and profit to sustain a few full time employees while still generating a sufficient income to supplement the sport in this country

kit3

Last year South Dublin county council ran a series of cross country races for primary school kids (3rd - 6th class). The races were put on separately in Clondalkin, Lucan and Tallaght with all areas coming together for a 'final' day at the track in Tallaght. The kids absolutely loved it and were then keen to get involved in the community games (can only speak for Clondalkin area). As a result of this interest the previously defunct Clondalkin AC has reformed again, initially for kids but with a view to expanding to an adult section fairly soon. SDCC are doing the same this year. Small steps but...............

myflipflops

RayCun wrote: »

The AAI don't have the people to put on a mass road race themselves though, do they? So if they put on a race with Samsung or the Rock n Roll crowd, that's essentially doing the same thing - raising money by organising road races.

Sure, they could go further ... but then we'd be complaining about the AAI cannibalising club races and milking road runners :pac:

Road runners are already being milked. With races like the Rock n Roll series around the world, casual runners are being milked while the square root of f*ck all gets re-invested into the sport. There are a similar bunch of cowboys here in Melbourne called 'Start to Finish' hoovering up profits for pretty rubbish road races. I presume these are profitable races or private companies would not be running them.

Club races (like the great one I ran in Bohermeen last year) could actually then receive some support. They are events designed to help out athletics clubs.

As the 300 odd posts of back and forth about the GAA ISC grants shows, there is bugger all money about in terms of funding. What little funding is available is getting harder to come by. The only real way to invest in grassroots athletics is to aim directly at the schools and juvenile club sections. Get coaches around primary schools and teach the coaches in the clubs around the country. Generate participation at the earliest possible opportunity.

To do any of this will take cash that the AAI do not have. Athletics as a sport struggles to attract sponsorship from private business and the Government funding is drying up. The answer is that they need a revenue stream. That potential revenue stream is there with all the people running road races around the country.

It would take some initiative, a large shift in attitude and some changes to the AAI employee structure but it is doable. For one, they could build some bridges towards the Dublin marathon people and get some experience on board there. It is not an ideal situation but in the current climate, you have to start running the organization like a business to generate the money to develop the sport.

rom

Currently if you are interested in coaching you have to pay to do the courses to essentially do voluntary work at the end of it. Fix that. Give a few options in schools for kids to train to about athletics coaching in transition year.

To cut cost of this make an AAI coaching video series. With the age of the internet they still expect people to travel long distances to do these courses. I went to an AAI talk a few weeks ago as part of this structure. Now it was good but there is zero reason why I could not watched it online but I had to sit in a room with no heating for 2 1/2 hours which resulted in me getting sick from.

Make athletics coaching a part of job bridge as there are plenty of well able people on the dole in this country prefer to do that than nothing all day. If they put jobs like cleaners on it why not athletics coaching course towards a role in a local club ? Yes there is little chance there is a job at the end of it but the benifit to society and the individual would enable them to get out of long term unemployment easier.

average_runner

rom wrote: »

Currently if you are interested in coaching you have to pay to do the courses to essentially do voluntary work at the end of it. Fix that. Give a few options in schools for kids to train to about athletics coaching in transition year.

To cut cost of this make an AAI coaching video series. With the age of the internet they still expect people to travel long distances to do these courses. I went to an AAI talk a few weeks ago as part of this structure. Now it was good but there is zero reason why I could not watched it online but I had to sit in a room with no heating for 2 1/2 hours which resulted in me getting sick from.

Make athletics coaching a part of job bridge as there are plenty of well able people on the dole in this country prefer to do that than nothing all day. If they put jobs like cleaners on it why not athletics coaching course towards a role in a local club ? Yes there is little chance there is a job at the end of it but the benifit to society and the individual would enable them to get out of long term unemployment easier.

Our club pays for anyone who wants to do the coaching, even got the course to be done at our clubhouse.

Plan is for everyone to do it when the person is ready.

a_non_a_mouse

More of this level of coverage is needed

http://www.athleticsireland.ie/content/?p=30512

In too many parts of the country, kids who win county b u12 medals in GAA are treated like hero's, but high performing juvenile international athletes in the same area are unknown.

More quality coverage....higher profile for the sport and the athletes, more opportunities for grants/sponsorship and therefore better facilities (in theory).

Buts its not all about AAI, i think a large amount of clubs don't promote themselves fully. The opportunities are there in local papers to get a write up regularly, I don't think enough clubs avail of that.
Web sites are cheap to setup now, but still some clubs/counties don't have a decent online presence.

as someone in an earlier post said.."We need to sell our sport."

More sport scholarships which might help retain some of the best young athletes in the sport. Once kids get summer jobs etc, its hard to balance college/work/training/social life.
Part of the condition of that could be related to putting something back into athletics during "off-season"
win-win....keeps kids in athletics and maybe helps younger kids

lots of way to improve athletics....part of the problem is that the people running a large number of clubs are just swamped and don't have time to step back and put decent structures in place.
need to encourage more parents who might not be willing/able to coach to get involved in admin work, but that also requires some delegation and I can see lots of people who like to mind their "empire"

a_non_a_mouse

Plus...more of this

http://www.athleticsireland.ie/content/?p=30500

More opportunities for athletes to achieve standards.
Opportunities to see quality athletes for free in a decent arena..

Timmaay

myflipflops wrote: »

Road runners are already being milked. With races like the Rock n Roll series around the world, casual runners are being milked while the square root of f*ck all gets re-invested into the sport. There are a similar bunch of cowboys here in Melbourne called 'Start to Finish' hoovering up profits for pretty rubbish road races. I presume these are profitable races or private companies would not be running them.

Club races (like the great one I ran in Bohermeen last year) could actually then receive some support. They are events designed to help out athletics clubs.

Great point here, we had a very good thread last year about the whole road race boom http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=78708424 , I let my feelings be well clear on what I think AAI need to do to help the grassroutes funding, my primary point was that the clubs are well capable of organizing low cost, profitable races, that offer a better and cheaper service to the competitors than the big commercial/for profit races, and indeed many of the shoddy GAA/charity races (*not all are shoddy of course :P), however these club races need more structure/support to help with publicity.

Interestingly also I was critical then of AAIs website, and how runireland.com offered a much better service. Seems like Runireland has totally shot itself in the foot lately with the whole active european registration, now is certainly the time for AAI to go sort out the road race side of their website if they had the vision to fix this!

kit3

kit3 wrote: »

Last year South Dublin county council ran a series of cross country races for primary school kids (3rd - 6th class). The races were put on separately in Clondalkin, Lucan and Tallaght with all areas coming together for a 'final' day at the track in Tallaght. The kids absolutely loved it and were then keen to get involved in the community games (can only speak for Clondalkin area). As a result of this interest the previously defunct Clondalkin AC has reformed again, initially for kids but with a view to expanding to an adult section fairly soon. SDCC are doing the same this year. Small steps but...............

Just a follow-up to this for anyone interested. South Dublin ran this series for primary school kids again this year. It culminated on the track in Tallaght this morning with over 900 kids from 3rd class to 6th class taking part. If only a fraction of those kids maintain an interest it will have been very worthwhile. Two of my kids were there and the school has been buzzing about this for weeks with weekly athletics training for the past few months. Great initiative and great support from Tallaght athletics club in terms of both facilities and personnel. Now to warm up..............

ecoli

kit3 wrote: »

Just a follow-up to this for anyone interested. South Dublin ran this series for primary school kids again this year. It culminated on the track in Tallaght this morning with over 900 kids from 3rd class to 6th class taking part. If only a fraction of those kids maintain an interest it will have been very worthwhile. Two of my kids were there and the school has been buzzing about this for weeks with weekly athletics training for the past few months. Great initiative and great support from Tallaght athletics club in terms of both facilities and personnel. Now to warm up..............

Happened to be down at the club this morning. Was absolutely great to see this and atmosphere looked fantastic

kit3

ecoli wrote: »

Happened to be down at the club this morning. Was absolutely great to see this and atmosphere looked fantastic

It was fantastic. Great to see the kids giving it everything. Loads of encouragement no matter how fast or slow. Great also from the school's perspective. Ours is a small school but did very well there this morning. Gives a great boost to a school and great feeling of achievement to the kids.

tHE vAGGABOND

Back in my rugby days I helped setup a kids section of the club I was playing with in London, mainly I had feck all to do weekend mornings [back in my 20 stone days LONG before running], as there was nothing like that in the area I was living in. The RFU over there could not have been more helpful, giving us cones and stuff for training, balls, sent us on coaching courses no questions asked, and provided a few weeks of them leading sessions, showing us what to do etc.

I know Leinster Rugby have made a huge effort over last 10 or more years to get rugby to grow outside of south Dublin, in terms of playing at all levels - be that in Tallaght and Clondalkin or Port Laois.

Now Im a member of one of the bigger clubs in the country, Crusaders, and we are lucky in that we have good facilities and great coaches - and the sessions I have attended are really good. But I only joined them when many other boards folks fecked off from weekend runs and joined clubs for different reasons. I was chatting to someone at Dublin Bay 10k who ran it in 41 mins [for 10k] and had never joined a club and never wanted to, as "..there was no point as they are all elitist and no fun..." etc etc - I use to say the same thing as I had one bad experience.

But I wonder about many other clubs, and rural areas, and if they have anything like the same coaches without the numbers at training, and without a track what they do. So people play other sports, and dont bring their kids down [Where we have nigh on 100 kids down on Tuesday nights, as there are good coaches, and importantly other kids, so their mates are down...]

IMHO AAI need to be helping people set up and run/coach clubs, and get kids involved early - and keep them involved. A diverse range of well run clubs is the way to do that, and FAI, IRFU and GAA know that - AAI have no clue

Schools are a problem, Im not a parent, but from looking at nieces and nephews and indeed kids of my mates - the kids play everything.....but running and athletics is an afterthought for the end of the school year around sports day only. Maybe the odd PE session thru year - it needs to be an all year thing, or at least have a longer season. I went to a rugby school in south dublin, Im sure with a bit of training and coaching we would have some serious hammer and discus folks, folks who are fast, strong and do weights a few times a week - but Im betting not a single one has ever been asked to do it, or gotten decent coaching..

RoyMcC

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

But I wonder about many other clubs, and rural areas, and if they have anything like the same coaches without the numbers at training, and without a track what they do. So people play other sports, and dont bring their kids down [Where we have nigh on 100 kids down on Tuesday nights, as there are good coaches, and importantly other kids, so their mates are down...]

IMHO AAI need to be helping people set up and run/coach clubs, and get kids involved early - and keep them involved. A diverse range of well run clubs is the way to do that, and FAI, IRFU and GAA know that - AAI have no clue

..

Great to hear the Cru kids are doing so well. Indeed Moira, Maria, JJ and others are very good. But there was a time - only a few short years ago - when there wasn't a single child to be found at Irishtown. We found that
1. You need coaches ready to devote themselves to the young athletes.
2. It needs to be fun or you won't see a newcomer again for dust.
3. As you say, if your mates are going to be there you'll probably go as well.
4. Crucially, parents need to be interested in what their children are doing. Fortunately in D2/D4 this tends to be the case.

and of course
5. Facilities are a great help and Irishtown has everything. OK you can run anywhere but if there's no all-weather track, implements to throw, long jump pits and high jump beds then the children not best suited to running will soon drift away.

Areas without easy access to a track with all the trimmings must find it nigh impossible to maintain a crucial mass of coaches and young athletes.

Letyourselfgo

RoyMcC wrote: »

We found that
1. You need coaches ready to devote themselves to the young athletes.
2. It needs to be fun or you won't see a newcomer again for dust.
3. As you say, if your mates are going to be there you'll probably go as well.
4. Crucially, parents need to be interested in what their children are doing. Fortunately in D2/D4 this tends to be the case.

and of course
5. Facilities are a great help .

Bang on the money RoyMcC. In our club we've found it hard to get new coaches. Some nights you can have 2 coaches to 50 kids and imo it lowers the quality of the session. Talking with another club coach last week, he told me they have 17 coaches for the juveniles and the ratio is 1 coach to 6 kids and that club is starting to have a very big impact. Don't get me wrong though, our club juveniles are doing well but with more coaches I reckon we would do even better.

Also I think a major factor in keeping kids motivated and active is creating a huge social aspect within the club. One of my daughters is in the u11 division and I've made a huge effort to have both her running and school friends over for playdates and outings and they're one of the most tightly knit groups within the club. They never miss training and are extremely competitive in their age division.
Again if you had the coaches you could designate a coach to each particular age group and outside of competition organise other outings/activities that help form the bond.

notsofast

You have to get parents involved if you have a ratio of 25:1. 50 kids = 100 parents, sometimes they just need to be asked. We have about 14 coaches in our club and all bar 1 are/were parents. Hook them in by just suggesting you need some extra supervisors (we found that many of them are hanging around for the session anyway). Then line up an Athletics leader course for them. Some will drop out but some will stay. IMO.:)

Timmaay

notsofast wrote: »

You have to get parents involved if you have a ratio of 25:1. 50 kids = 100 parents, sometimes they just need to be asked. We have about 14 coaches in our club and all bar 1 are/were parents. Hook them in by just suggesting you need some extra supervisors (we found that many of them are hanging around for the session anyway). Then line up an Athletics leader course for them. Some will drop out but some will stay. IMO.:)

This is how it works in most of the smaller clubs I'd say, mostly parents who come and either coach or be a committee member for afew years, then move on when the kid takes up a different sport, if the club is lucky a it has afew extremely dedicated coaches who are in it for the long haul. It always seems to come and go in waves, I've seen clubs totally fold in cases that new parents refuse to get involved, with less and less coaches taking on more and more roles, until they get fedup with the workload and walk away.

vAGGABOND mentioned about how well setup things are in rugby, a similar approach in athletics is where the smaller clubs could really benefit, specifically to help avoid these periods of decline in the club. The athletics RDOs have been excellent in this regard to them, but simple as is there is not enough of them.

And Letyourselfgo, bar for say an older group of teenagers, a ratio of 1:6 is utter dreamland for any of the clubs that I'm involved with, I can really see how it would benefit the club! Someday maybe!

new parent

Hello, This is my 1st post as New Parent. My child wants to take part in u9-u11 outdoor competition in June. As I am not a runner myself I am only learning thru my child. I don't understand what paired competition is. Do you pair up with another child and both do the same event? or do you do 1 event and I do the other? It was explained to my child but we both heard different things! Guidance is appreciated!!

Letyourselfgo

new parent wrote: »

Hello, This is my 1st post as New Parent. My child wants to take part in u9-u11 outdoor competition in June. As I am not a runner myself I am only learning thru my child. I don't understand what paired competition is. Do you pair up with another child and both do the same event? or do you do 1 event and I do the other? It was explained to my child but we both heard different things! Guidance is appreciated!!

Your child will be paired with another kid for 1 event. Example both do the 600m and it's their combined times that count. They are also allowed to do another event as well, turbo javelin, long jump or 60m. Their partner for this event could be the same kid or a different one and again it's the combined times or distance that counts.
Do you mind me asking what county it's for? Dublin was last weekend.

Also there's a 4x100m relay as well.

If they get the gold, silver or bronze they will be allowed to got to nationals in Donegal at the end of June where they'll compete with other teams from all over.

dna_leri

Letyourselfgo wrote: »

Your child will be paired with another kid for 1 event. Example both do the 600m and it's their combined times that count. They are also allowed to do another event as well, turbo javelin, long jump or 60m. Their partner for this event could be the same kid or a different one and again it's the combined times or distance that counts.
Do you mind me asking what county it's for? Dublin was last weekend.

Also there's a 4x100m relay as well.

If they get the gold, silver or bronze they will be allowed to got to nationals in Donegal at the end of June where they'll compete with other teams from all over.

Note: to qualify for Nationals they need to place in the provincial competition, so they will usually compete at county level, then provincial (Dublin may be an exception).
Also events may differ by age-group, esp distance run.

Letyourselfgo

dna_leri wrote: »

Note: to qualify for Nationals they need to place in the provincial competition, so they will usually compete at county level, then provincial (Dublin may be an exception).
Also events may differ by age-group, esp distance run.

Dna_leri is correct regarding distances for the longer events.
u9-300m
u10-500m
u11-600m

I didn't realise that about provincial. My big city ignorance

a_non_a_mouse

Letyourselfgo wrote: »

Do you mind me asking what county it's for? Dublin was last weekend.

.

I'd say the boat is missed on this everywhere.
Entries in Munster had to be last Fri and the Leinsters are this Sat, assume Ulster and Connacht have similar timetabling.

Letyourselfgo

a_non_a_mouse wrote: »

I'd say the boat is missed on this everywhere.
Entries in Munster had to be last Fri and the Leinsters are this Sat, assume Ulster and Connacht have similar timetabling.

Yeah that was my own thinking as well. Do you know whereLeinster is been held?

a_non_a_mouse

Letyourselfgo wrote: »

Yeah that was my own thinking as well. Do you know whereLeinster is been held?

Tullamore click on link for event info on Leinster Site

meathcountysec

Letyourselfgo wrote: »

Dna_leri is correct regarding distances for the longer events.
u9-300m
u10-500m
u11-600m

I didn't realise that about provincial. My big city ignorance

For juvenile competition Dublin is considered to be a Region, similar to Ulster, Leinster, Munster and Connaught.